Seeking New Career

Osamenor

Staff member
Os, I'm not a modern evolutionary astrologer. That's fairly obvious.

But I do want to note that I'm judging the chart, not the person. What I mean when I say that is that 'x' whatever it is, is in bad shape, is that that planetary energy is probably not going to act in a way that's to your benefit, not that there's something defective about you.

So please don't think I was judging you in some way because of your chart. I wouldn't do that.
I admit, I react to those negative phrases, like "your Venus is in terrible shape" and "your MC doesn't work well." On reflection, I appreciate your help more than ever, and would give you extra thanks for it if the forum thank buttons allowed! This is an education for me. I don't want to be a traditional astrologer, the evolutionary perspective works much better for me--but to work with astrology, I need to know about the traditional perspective, even if I decide to reject it.

But does planetary energy "in bad shape" necessarily act in a way that doesn't benefit the chart owner? What about planetary energy in "good shape" that goes unchecked? Like a well aspected Mars in Aries or Mercury in Gemini with little or nothing to keep it in check. Does the person with that configuration benefit from being an impulsive hothead or a nonstop talker?

I am glad that the Jupiter/Fortuna/IC thing is helpful to you, though. That's what I try to use astrology for - finding the potentials in a chart that people can use that may help solve some of their problems.

And I wish you all the best.
:joyful:
 

Oddity

Well-known member
Thanks, Os, and I realise that I do owe you an apology. When I first learned astrology, modern astrology was all that was on offer, and I, too, was taught that the chart was a representation of you. I haven't thought that way in many years, but I ought to have realised that for someone who does, saying Venus is in terrible shape is probably going to be read as 'he says I don't know how to do Venus-stuff! I suck at it!'

No, no, no, I don't mean it that way at all, and I am so sorry if you took it that way. In trad astrology, the point of the ascendant is the person. The rest of the chart is the life circumstances and people (your 'transpersonal energy'?) that the person will have to deal with one way and another. And those energies are not always conventionally good. Nor do we always have control over them. I speak from a traditional perspective, I realise that many modern astrologers would disagree.

So when I look at Venus cadent from the angles in your chart, and in Virgo, I don't see it bringing any energy to your career. It isn't connecting to the MC, and since it rules your MC, that's something of a debility. In short - there aren't a bunch of Venus people/Venus types of experiences in your life that can easily help you into a job. There's no fault there. Just Venus not doing its job for you.

As to the Saturn stuff, it just looks nasty to me, again, from a practical perspective. It can play out any number of ways, but when I see a detrimented Saturn in 7, squaring the MC no less, and Saturn's dispositor in 12, I tend to see stories like partners becoming incapacitated through serious illness, confinement, that sort of thing. It won't necessarily play out that particular way (but I've seen it happen that way a lot), and it isn't your fault. It's just something that has a high probability of not working out well for you. Not something you're doing, or wishing on yourself or anyone else.

In trad, you really can't have a planet too dignified. It will bring good energy and experiences to a person's life. And life is hard enough, we need those things.

There is a big philosophical difference between trad and modern. In trad, it's like there are sometimes bad things that you can't avoid but maybe can prepare for, and if you're an astrologer, you're going to try to steer your clients around the rocks to the best of your ability so that hopefully they can pursue things in life that give them some happiness instead of things that feel like hitting your head against a brick wall. In modern I think the emphasis is seeing everything as somewhat-to-entirely within your control, for the best, and as a means for personal growth.

Me, I've seen too much horror in this world. And if I can help someone find a way out of a situation that's causing them a lot of pain, that's what I'm going to do, and it's an honour to be able to do it. A lot of times you can't. But sometimes you can. One of the things about astrology that amazes me.

It's a very different kind of philosophy to modern, I know that, as are my reasons for forsaking the modern stuff for the traditional. But that's a whole other lengthy discussion or three.
 

Oddity

Well-known member
What about planetary energy in "good shape" that goes unchecked? Like a well aspected Mars in Aries or Mercury in Gemini with little or nothing to keep it in check. Does the person with that configuration benefit from being an impulsive hothead or a nonstop talker?

:joyful:

I want to thank you for these conversations, by the way. I'm writing a book about astrology, and I want to make sure I've got so much of this stuff clear enough in my own head so that I can explain it to other people.

Traditional astrology says (and experience bears out) that you want a well-dignified planet. That Mars in Aries that's not afflicted is the one that's going to show courage and leadership, the good Mars things. It could make a good soldier or a good surgeon, or maybe a star athlete.

It will bring some misfortune, because that's what malefics do. If it's in good shape, though, it's going to be fairly small damage, but overall good. If it's in bad shape it's going to bring a lot of damage, and very little good. I have an utterly corrupted Mars. Mars things don't go well for me. Fortunately, though, in trad anyway, not all planets are active in your life at all times, so it isn't a constant stream of 'bad Mars juju'.

Merc in Gemini in overall good dignity without affliction would give a first-rate mind (never a bad thing), and all else being equal, the houses ruled by Mercury would show areas of life that go well for the native.

It's afflictions that cause problems, not unchecked good. I think one of the reasons for the trad/modern gulf is that even astrologically the techniques for determining the overall shape a planet is in are different, and one of the places where we don't overlap much - in modern I don't see people distinguishing between, say, day and night charts, or using the scheme of dignities much, if at all. Whereas in trad, the aspects to a planet are one of the last things you look at (even though they can be hugely important).

Thanks again for the questions, Os. They are much appreciated.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
In trad astrology, the point of the ascendant is the person. The rest of the chart is the life circumstances and people (your 'transpersonal energy'?) that the person will have to deal with one way and another. And those energies are not always conventionally good. Nor do we always have control over them. I speak from a traditional perspective, I realise that many modern astrologers would disagree.
Wow... I never knew traditional astrology had a whole other way of looking at the birth chart! So, really, one birth chart could be multiple charts at once. A traditional chart that shows circumstances, and a modern chart that shows the person... and also a karmic chart, but that gets a little off topic for this discussion.

Makes me more interested in traditional astrology, knowing that it's really a different chart, not just a different way of interpreting the planets and aspects.

So when I look at Venus cadent from the angles in your chart, and in Virgo, I don't see it bringing any energy to your career. It isn't connecting to the MC, and since it rules your MC, that's something of a debility. In short - there aren't a bunch of Venus people/Venus types of experiences in your life that can easily help you into a job. There's no fault there. Just Venus not doing its job for you.
In that respect, you're absolutely right. Venus doesn't do that particular job for me. I have little interest in Venusian things, least of all in the kinds of jobs that seem to be classed as Venusian. I'm not very arty or crafty; while I like hearing music, I'm not much interested in making it; and fashion or beauty industry? Bleeech!

I do have a strong need for natural surroundings, though, and I suppose that could be a Venus implication, via its rulership of Taurus. And there's something of a health/healing theme in my interests, along with psychology. I understand Venus to connect with those things as well, and Virgo and the eighth house certainly do.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
And if anyone has any input, I'm still interested in hearing more perspectives, particularly ones modern enough to take Uranus at my MC into account. I feel that's a big part of the picture.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Uranus at your MC means your career and life are in fluxx. You need a change and now is time to capitalise on it.

But what kind of change, and how can I capitalize on it?

And Uranus isn't transiting my MC, it's at the MC in my natal chart. But career and life being in flux is situational, not inborn. So what does natal Uranus at the MC have to do with needing a change right now?
 
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urano

Well-known member
Hello Osamenor,
Oddity said:
The problem is that 4-8-12 are not generally fortunate houses, though 4 does have some fortunate qualities and at least is strong. 8 is a notoriously difficult house for planets to manifest through (it rules death, and is considered an 'idle place' for planets within), and 12 has to do with isolation, illness, enemies, and self-undoing. Those are the primary meanings anyway.
Do you think that a work alongside older adults at the end of life could be something conceivable for you?
Capricorn rising and Saturn in the 7th house (older adults or underprivileged ones), the 8th house (death), the 4th house (the latter part of life), the 12th house (old people's homes). We can find a same type of thematic...

I admit I don’t see innovativeness (Uranus) here, nevertheless you could find a kind of structure, the quiet and silent environment you need.
 
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urano

Well-known member
However, to work alongside old people at the end of life could be depressing, I am aware of it.
Uranus is powerful in your chart and certainly we don‘t have to ignore it. In the 10th house in conjunction with the Midheaven it is also in sextile aspect with your AS. It is also the modern ruler of your 2nd house.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Hello Osamenor,

Do you think that a work alongside older adults at the end of life could be something conceivable for you?
Capricorn rising and Saturn in the 7th house (older adults or underprivileged ones), the 8th house (death), the 4th house (the latter part of life), the 12th house (old people's homes). We can find a same type of thematic...
I have, in fact, done some jobs along those lines. I worked in a nursing home (kitchen staff) to make money when I was in school, and I also worked at a group home for the developmentally disabled for a while. Of those groups, the one I like best is the developmentally disabled--they tend to be such interesting people! But being a caregiver is not something I can do in the long run. Too little variety and too much intense focus on someone's basic needs. Those jobs don't pay enough, either.

I admit I don’t see innovativeness (Uranus) here, nevertheless you could find a kind of structure, the quiet and silent environment you need.

I don't need that kind of quiet and silent environment. I only need a quiet and silent environment to do work that requires mental concentration, such as reading, writing, paperwork, taxes, that kind of thing. That's what makes most office jobs so problematic for me: they tend to expect you to do that kind of work in a busy, noisy office.
 
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Osamenor

Staff member
Uranus is powerful in your chart and certainly we don‘t have to ignore it. In the 10th house in conjunction with the Midheaven it is also in sextile aspect with your AS. It is also the modern ruler of your 2nd house.

Indeed. I'm aware of all that. Didn't think about the AS sextile until recently, because it's out of sign, but the orb is pretty tight. And if a seven degree orb is considered, it also has a sextile aspect with my sun.

Because it is so powerful, and conjunct my MC and ruler of my second house, I would think it would have strong career implications. How, I wonder, does that tie in with the land implication of Jupiter and Part of Fortune on the DC?
 

urano

Well-known member
Your Sun seems to me important, because of its own symbolism about career (Oddity already said this in your thread) and also because it is in sextile aspect with your MC. As well in your chart it is in its domicile! Great!

Considering things said in this thread, I think the relevant points are:
-Uranus in the 10th (Libra), Lord 2 (modern)
-Sun in the 8th (Leo) and Lord 8
-Jupiter in the 4th (Aries) and Lord 12 and 3
Fire element seems dominant here, as well cardinal mode. It should be note that Jupiter is in trine aspect with your Sun.
Do you have some relevant associations of ideas with this points?

Concerning the land, just a question: is your location wellknown for something especially?
For example, very often a region is renowned for something typical: a dish, a specific fruit production, cereal, or alternatively a location can be renowned for something else like water-cure, etc. I don’t know exactly but often it’s something traditional, related to the history of the site.
Is this interesting to take into account? Some ideas?
From my part I can’t see the whole picture because there are too many things I don’t really know and I don’t live in US!
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Your Sun seems to me important, because of its own symbolism about career (Oddity already said this in your thread) and also because it is in sextile aspect with your MC. As well in your chart it is in its domicile! Great!

Considering things said in this thread, I think the relevant points are:
-Uranus in the 10th (Libra), Lord 2 (modern)
-Sun in the 8th (Leo) and Lord 8
-Jupiter in the 4th (Aries) and Lord 12 and 3
Fire element seems dominant here, as well cardinal mode. It should be note that Jupiter is in trine aspect with your Sun.
Do you have some relevant associations of ideas with this points?
All I know is that cardinal energy is good for starting things, and so is fire. I'm not sure whether my chart is more cardinal or more mutable, or an even balance, but it's definitely one of those.

Concerning the land, just a question: is your location wellknown for something especially?
For example, very often a region is renowned for something typical: a dish, a specific fruit production, cereal, or alternatively a location can be renowned for something else like water-cure, etc. I don’t know exactly but often it’s something traditional, related to the history of the site.
Is this interesting to take into account? Some ideas?
From my part I can’t see the whole picture because there are too many things I don’t really know and I don’t live in US!

That kind of traditional doesn't really exist in America. We're a nation of displaced people. Except for the Native Americans, who got displaced from their land by the European settlers, everyone here came from somewhere else. If not you personally, then your ancestors did, and probably not too many generations back, either. We're all descendants of refugees, or kidnapped slaves, or people driven from their land by poverty or big land grabs. I'm an old blood American: my most recent immigrant ancestor was my great-great grandfather from Germany. Many Americans have more recent immigrations in their family trees.

That's especially true where I'm from, in fact; there are lots and lots of first and second generation immigrants here. And I am the first in my family to be born in this location--my parents both came from entirely different parts of the country. That, too, is typical for Americans. Very few live out their lives where they were born. Most of us live in multiple states within our lifetimes, and to put it in perspective, most of the US states are comparable in size to European countries. I've lived in a couple of other states myself.

What traditions we have related to specific locations are never more than a century or two old, often not even that. Most of the regional dishes and regional attractions are tourist traps, not staples of daily life.

The closest we get here to what you're describing is probably our national parks. As a matter of fact, I wanted to be a park ranger when I was younger, but because I'm dyspraxic, I was excluded from a wilderness education program that would have been the first step, which made me feel I couldn't pursue anything like that.
 
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wilsontc

Staff member
No one has to reply to your suggestions

All,

You can make any astro-suggestions you want, but the OP is NOT obliged to respond in any way. The decision to follow up or not follow up with a suggestion is entirely up to the OP.

Back to astrology,

Tim
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Tim, I appreciate you stepping in, but I have just one quibble: you deleted a post in which I laid out some requests that I really, really need people to respect when they're posting in this thread. Given the way that conversation went, I'm not saying you were wrong to delete it, but I have gotten some responses here that I found extremely unhelpful, and I need to make it clear what I need:

I'm not looking for specific job suggestions so much as I'm looking for help interpreting my own chart for career indicators. I really, really, REALLY don't want anyone saying, "Why don't you do x?" without also telling me something about how that fits with the gestalt of my chart. I need responses that consider the big picture, not just "Uranus at the midheaven means you should do this, Jupiter means you should do that," and certainly not "Try this job!" without astrological input based on your own reasonably in depth interpretation. For those of you who understand how to do that, I appreciate your input. For anyone who does not, this thread isn't the place to post.

Furthermore, I only want to hear from people who take the time to read the previous posts in this thread and understand the direction this conversation has gone in before they post, and take into consideration what has already been said. There are several posts in here that don't fit that bill.

Finally, I want to again thank the only people who so far have stepped up to the plate and given me the kind of response I'm looking for: Oddity and urano. Even if I don't agree with every last little detail in some of those posts (which should be obvious if reading back over the thread!) you guys did give me some in depth interpretation considering the chart as a whole, from whatever school of astrology you're following, and helped me get some of the perspective I need. I look forward to hearing more from you and/or anyone else who can give that kind of response.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
If we look at your exaltation ruler, Saturn, it's angular and sees the MC, but it's in detriment in Cancer, squaring both Jupiter and the MC. Blech. Don't go for business partners, that would be a very difficult situation for you.

...As to the Saturn stuff, it just looks nasty to me, again, from a practical perspective. It can play out any number of ways, but when I see a detrimented Saturn in 7, squaring the MC no less, and Saturn's dispositor in 12, I tend to see stories like partners becoming incapacitated through serious illness, confinement, that sort of thing. It won't necessarily play out that particular way (but I've seen it happen that way a lot), and it isn't your fault. It's just something that has a high probability of not working out well for you. Not something you're doing, or wishing on yourself or anyone else.
I want to revisit this bit about business partners, because I've studied my chart more in relation to this, and I'm wondering if....

Does this business partners stuff mean one-on-one partnerships specifically? Would it also apply to work in group settings that are not quite the same as business partnerships? For instance, belonging to a guild... or, in modern times, a worker-owned co-op. Would those kinds of arrangements also be ruled by the seventh house, and, in my case, involve Saturn? Or would that fall somewhere else--the eleventh, for instance?

I am looking for a traditional perspective on this question. (Surprise, surprise... I backtracked!) Based on a modern interpretation of my chart... and some of this came from a professional astrologer, it isn't just me... collective work does seem to look good, and my personal experience is starting to bear that out. But is there anything in my chart, from a traditional perspective, that would match that?

Jupiter is the benefic of sect in your chart (it's more helpful than Venus, because you were born in the daytime and Jupiter is a diurnal planet). It's got some essential dignity (the ability to act like Jupiter), and it's got some accidental dignity, so it does have the opportunity to act pretty strongly, because it's on the IC. And it's got those lovely trines to Sun and moon going. Sun is a natural significator of honours and profession, so that's a nice tie-in.

It's opposed to the MC, but the IC can bring wealth, too. In the old days, currency wasn't that important - you could become quite wealthy by land, and traditionally, that was the major route to wealth. Jupiter/Fortuna/IC signifies that, but in our day, that's going to involve money as well.

As luck would have it, Jupiter is a natural significator of wealth. So is Fortuna.

...And you need structure. Any chance that there's a nursery, greenhouse, somewhere like that, that could use some help in your area? It would be a start.

In astrology, I would look to pick up planetary days and hours, and the rulerships of various plants and herbs, medical and magical both, as a way in to this. It's not a horribly difficult study.

I've been back to this part of the conversation several times, too, because the part about land was the real spark. Ever since then, I've tried to figure out how I could get my hands in the dirt (literally!) and work with plants day-to-day. Nothing panned out there, although I did find some paying work, which is similar to work I did in the past and thought I'd had enough of... and surprisingly, I like it. However, I like it even more when I'm keeping my fingers in multiple pies and not trying to make it my main focus (perhaps a result of having my planets so spread out?).

Then, just over a month ago, I received an email about a new nine month herbalism program. I know one of the teachers casually (she's the one who sent me the email), and I knew she was an herbalist but didn't know she was involved in formal teaching... in any case, it came right before the deadline for applications, I had an instant gut feeling that was the place for me... and, long story short, I'm starting the program next month. Despite the last minute rush to meet the deadline and the financial gymnastics I'm having to play to make it work.

It will include lots of work experience, new connections... and one of the optional classes is herbs and astrology.
 
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