Predominator, oikodespotes and kyrios - checks

Hi. Could anyone help me confirm if they agree with the basics of my chart rulership. Testing my understanding of traditional guidelines and it is difficult to do without bouncing off someone.

With Moon being the sect light and elevated and own face (Ptolemy) I would assume it to be the predominator? Night chart and Sun is anyhow cadent in 6th though I did note it is in own face.

Libra is under Venus, she is angular and she is in mutual reception with Moon, on Moon face also. She would be the oikodespotes? (or in this case oikodespoina if we want to assume her a she)

This leaves Saturn as Kyrios, given his Rulership of the Ascendant. But the fact that both Moon and Venus are in Saturn term (as is the Sun, which also receives him by sign) makes Saturn a bit more involved and this raises some issues of prominence between these three planets? Or does it?

Is there anything I am overlooking with regards to the basics.

I have used Ptolemy dignities table and terms for ease but will, once I am sure I got it right, move on to explore Egyptian terms. In which case, which decans are best applied in your experience?

Further to this and as a side note, that Moon is Air/Libra therefore triplicity rulers are Mercury (as it is a night chart) in first part of life, Saturn around now (since Saturn return roughly) and finally Jupiter in last part of life (optimistically ). Is this correct?

Any pointers, thoughts etc. welcome and appreciated.
Attaching both - chart with Ptol. terms and one with Egyptian terms in case it will be easier for some to evaluate this instead.

Purple9 said:

Hi. Could anyone help me confirm if they agree with the basics of my chart rulership. Testing my understanding of traditional guidelines and it is difficult to do without bouncing off someone.

With Moon being the sect light and elevated and own face (Ptolemy) I would assume it to be the predominator? Night chart and Sun is anyhow cadent in 6th though I did note it is in own face.

Libra is under Venus, she is angular and she is in mutual reception with Moon, on Moon face also. She would be the oikodespotes? (or in this case oikodespoina if we want to assume her a she)

This leaves Saturn as Kyrios, given his Rulership of the Ascendant. But the fact that both Moon and Venus are in Saturn term (as is the Sun, which also receives him by sign) makes Saturn a bit more involved and this raises some issues of prominence between these three planets? Or does it?

Is there anything I am overlooking with regards to the basics.

I have used Ptolemy dignities table and terms for ease but will, once I am sure I got it right, move on to explore Egyptian terms. In which case, which decans are best applied in your experience?

Further to this and as a side note, that Moon is Air/Libra therefore triplicity rulers are Mercury (as it is a night chart) in first part of life, Saturn around now (since Saturn return roughly) and finally Jupiter in last part of life (optimistically ). Is this correct?

Any pointers, thoughts etc. welcome and appreciated.
Attaching both - chart with Ptol. terms and one with Egyptian terms in case it will be easier for some to evaluate this instead.

Click to expand...

There is no one single Predominator technique and the Ptolemy one is one of the most divergent. By far, the most popular way (and the one reported by Porphyry, but with quadrant houses) was this:

III, VI, IX and XII are inoperative images, while the rest are operative.
In all nativities, the Lightbringer is Predominator if he is operative.
If he is not, the other Light is Predominator if he is operative.
If both Lights are inoperative, the Hour-Marker is Predominator.

It is simple and straight to the point. The Moon is the Predominator at your nativity.

Petosiris and most Hellenistic astrologers used this predomination method. The Master of the Nativity/Houseruler is chosen in a different fashion amongst different authors - Valens uses the bound ruler of the Predominator, but many Hellenistic authors and the one I recommend is the following:

The sign ruler of the Predominator is the Master of the Nativity.

Mercury is the Master of the Nativity in sidereal, Venus in tropical.

Most authors do not report a Lord of the Nativity. If you use the Porphyry scheme, half your chart is master, co-ruler or ruler - gets a bit pointless imo.

Thank you so much again for your time and help.

"There is no one single Predominator technique and the Ptolemy one is one of the most divergent. By far, the most popular way (and the one reported by Porphyry, but with quadrant houses) was this:

III, VI, IX and XII are inoperative images, while the rest are operative.
In all nativities, the Lightbringer is Predominator if he is operative.
If he is not, the other Light is Predominator if he is operative.
If both Lights are inoperative, the Hour-Marker is Predominator."


If I do use quadrant houses and try various ones, Moon is almost persistently cadent too. In fact it goes in either 9th or goes succedent in 8th but never 10th. Do you think this overrides whole signs set-up based on Moons likely ability to act under such axis set-up?

In which case we are looking at Ruler of the Ascendant as the next likely candidate. Which is Saturn, succedent and 'favourable' to Sun-Mercury. But Moon-Venus MR and both on Saturn bounds and Moon face adds an interesting edge. I need to digest.

Any thoughts always welcome.

Purple9 said:

Thank you so much again for your time and help.

"There is no one single Predominator technique and the Ptolemy one is one of the most divergent. By far, the most popular way (and the one reported by Porphyry, but with quadrant houses) was this:

III, VI, IX and XII are inoperative images, while the rest are operative.
In all nativities, the Lightbringer is Predominator if he is operative.
If he is not, the other Light is Predominator if he is operative.
If both Lights are inoperative, the Hour-Marker is Predominator."


If I do use quadrant houses and try various ones, Moon is almost persistently cadent too. In fact it goes in either 9th or goes succedent in 8th but never 10th. Do you think this overrides whole signs set-up based on Moons likely ability to act under such axis set-up?

In which case we are looking at Ruler of the Ascendant as the next likely candidate. Which is Saturn, succedent and 'favourable' to Sun-Mercury. But Moon-Venus MR and both on Saturn bounds and Moon face adds an interesting edge. I need to digest.

Any thoughts always welcome.

Click to expand...

You have to decide for yourself. I use only signs.

https://i.imgur.com/DhGHBSx.png

Let us imagine we are currently near Cairo. It is 0:30. We look overhead and we see the shining bright Full Moon and the bright stars of the Virgin twinkling (the stars are usually less visible even with enabled atmosphere in Stellarium, even without light pollution, but you will able to see Spica and Leo under average town conditions)

https://i.imgur.com/7121ora.png

Then I point you to the amazing, real and astronomical MC (the point where the ecliptic and meridian intersect), which modern software usually and deceptively puts at the top to make your chart look like a cross. However, it turns out that the Moon is at the top (or zenith, or midheaven) in equal houses at the time, which is why I recommend a nonagesimal instead of that random point that can even be in the 12th house at high latitudes.

https://i.imgur.com/rhxoMmt.png

An hour and 20 minutes pass and we are at the late degrees of Sagittarius rising. I would still recommend ''whole sign houses'' as the sidereal sign of Virgo is still culminating at the time. Because it is a Full Moon, the stars of Leo will not be shining that bright, however it (even under average town conditions) would still be visible enough to be judged declining from the midheaven, which is the tenth sign. There is no difference between stars and signs. If a sign is inoperative, all stars are inoperative too and if signs are angular, then all stars with the image are angular too. However, I would still use the Hour-Marker and the nonagesimal as additional strength consideration.

In the whole signs and equal houses systems, the MC does not always point south. So what, the ascendant and descendant never point east and west exactly either.

The nonagesimal MC is always the top position and always angular, always with 90 square to the ascendant.

Only whole signs have planets rising above the horizon in the first house, every other house system puts rising planets in the twelfth house. There are twelve houses because there are twelve signs, but in my opinion, houses do not even exist.

Your nativity has the same case, and it is even a better example as the distance between the two MCs is even larger.

I want to thank you for taking the time to present this angle so clearly. You have given me much to consider and apply in order to derive whatever resonance or dissonance. I think the case is clear. But will take all this on and digest properly. Let it stew. I am very grateful to you for your contribution.

Purple9 said:

I want to thank you for taking the time to present this angle so clearly. You have given me much to consider and apply in order to derive whatever resonance or dissonance. I think the case is clear. But will take all this on and digest properly. Let it stew. I am very grateful to you for your contribution.

Click to expand...

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Masters of the Nativity ​

Lord of Fortune & Ascendant. ​

Ancient Astrology Vol.2 Demetra George​

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This ain't hard and people shouldn't have to suffer through useless videos that don't even do it right.

This can only be done using whole sign. People who insist on using house systems be prepared to crash and burn. It's a simple drill-down.

The prenatal New/Full Moon is controller when Sun/Moon are together and on an angle.

The Asc is controller when both lights are below the horizon or both lights are in the 9th place.

The MC is controller when both lights are in the 3rd, 6th or 12th place. The Asc is your life. The MC is your vim, vigor and vitality. That's why we use the MC.

Moon controls when Sun is 9th place and Moon is in the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th or 10th place.

Sun controls from the 1st, 7th, 8th or 11th place (the 8th because Sun sextiles MC).

There are a few conditions when you'll have to guess:
1) 5th place Sun and 9th place Moon: the one closest by degree separating/applying to the Asc.
2) 9th place Sun and 11th place Moon: again the one with closest to the Asc applying/separating by degree
3) In a diurnal chart if it just happens to have a Leo Sun and Cancer Moon take the one in closest best aspect to the Asc or MC.
4) In a nocturnal chart if it just happens to have a Libra Sun and Scorpio Moon take the one in closest best aspect to the Asc (don't use MC).

Once you identify the controller then you identify the chart ruler and that will be the star that rules the term of the controller.

That is why we do not use Ptolemy's terms because they don't work. That is also why twins sometimes die years apart. The medical literature says the average birth-time for twins is 17 minutes. The Asc will move at least 4° possibly 5° in that might be just enough to move the Asc into another term.

If the term ruler of the controller is below the horizon then you cannot use that controller. If the other light hasn't been rejected, then you look at its term ruler and if it's below the horizon then you cannot use it. You default to the term rulers of Asc, MC and prenatal Full/New Moon.

If the term rulers are all below the horizon and that is a possibility then the Asc is controller and there is no chart ruler.

If the term ruler of the controller is above the horizon but in aversion to the controller then there is no chart ruler or if the term ruler of the controller is in the 7th place then there is no chart ruler.

In this instance there is an alternative method. If prenatal Moon is a New Moon count from the prenatal New Moon to the Moon and then count those degrees counter-clockwise from the Asc. The star that rules that term is the chart ruler. Otherwise count the distance from the prenatal Full Moon to the Moon and then count clockwise from the Asc and the term ruler of whatever degree that is becomes the chart ruler.

Use that method with the other fails and not because you think you're special and deserve a chart ruler. Not all charts are meant to have chart rulers and the world won't end if your chart isn't supposed to have one.

In the OPs chart, 6th place Sun is rejected. 10th place Moon is controller and in the term of Saturn. Saturn is above the horizon and not in aversion to Moon so Saturn is the chart ruler. Have a happy astrological day.