THE Appeal

Although my custody battle outcome was reasonable, we are appealing for several reasons.

Here is what I know from my limited horary studies:

I am PLUTO, which is sextile to Mars in first house (?)
The appeal = involves child so fifth house or seventh house (legal matters?)
Seventh house shows part of fortune....

I'm seeing a vague results which could mean what I'm hoping - more settlements / negotiations...

Anyone?

Opphiucan said:

Here is what I know from my limited horary studies

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You should always start with the basics when learning anything.

For Horary, we use Regiomontanus Houses.

When using AstroTeeth, do not select additional chart points. We do not use Earth, Chiron, Lilith (or Black Moon Lilith) or other asteroids.

We do use the Part of Fortune and the Nodes. Always select Mean Nodes instead of True Nodes.

We do not use Uranus, Neptune or Pluto, but AstroTeeth isn't smart enough to figured that out so we'll just have to suffer with it.

The next thing is that a Chart should not be judged unless it is Radical. To determine that, you'll have to calculate the Hour Ruler by hand since AstroTeeth doesn't provide it. The Hour Ruler for this Chart happens to be the Moon.

A Chart is Radical if:

The Hour Ruler is also the Ascendant Ruler (we have a fail here).

The Hour Ruler and either the Ascendant or Ascendant Ruler are in the same Triplicity. The Ascendant is Scorpio. Scorpio is a Water Sign. The Ascendant Ruler is Mars. Mars is in Scorpio. The Moon is in Aries, a Fire Sign. The Ascendant and Ascendant Ruler are not in the same Triplicity as the Moon (and that's a fail).

The Hour Ruler rules the Ascendant's Triplicity. The Ascendant is Scorpio. Scorpio is a Water Sign. This is a Day Chart. The Day Ruler of Water Signs is Venus (so we have a fail there).

The Hour Ruler makes a strong aspect with the Ascendant. A strong aspect means an aspect from an Angular House, or a Partile or very close Platic aspect from a Succedent House (and the Moon does not aspect the Ascendant).

The last test is the Hour Ruler and the Ascendant or Ascendant Ruler are the same nature.

Scorpio is Cold/Moist. Mars is Hot/Dry. The Moon is normally Cold/Moist, but it changes nature based on its quarter and it's just after the Full Moon so it is is Cold/Dry during this phase. Some might consider it the same nature, but I wouldn't so we have a fail there.

So, this Chart appears to be not Radical.

However, I use Dorothean Triplicities and the Moon is a participating Triplicity Ruler for the Water Triplicity, so that would make the Moon the Triplicity Ruler of the Ascendant and the Chart would be Radical and fit to be judged.

Now that we have that out of the way, we can look at the Significators.

You are the Querent, so you are represented by the 1st House and Mars. Mars is your only significator.

Your adversary, opponents, person your in contention with, person with whom you are fighting or opposite party in a legal action (civil or criminal) is the 7th House and Venus.

The Court/Judge is the 10th House and Sun.

Now we judge the Significators.

Mars is in Scorpio, in his own Term and Face, Angular, Fast, but is Occidental. The only aspects Mars can make is with Jupiter or Saturn. Mars is not currently in aspect with either, but Mars is applying toward Jupiter by trine. Overall, Mars is in fairly good shape.

Venus is in Scorpio, her own Triplicity and Term, Angular, Occidental, but Slow and Via Combusta. The only Planets Venus can aspect are Sun, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. Venus is not in aspect with any Planets, but she is applying toward Jupiter by trine.

Sun is in Libra and Peregrine. The Sun is Slow and Succedent, but that's offset somewhat by being in Hayz. The only Planets the Sun can aspect are Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. The Sun is in a Platic Conjunction with Saturn.

Now we need to look at considerations (aka "warnings" or "strictures").

The Ascendant is Via Combusta. That aptly describes the state of the Querent, but it also indicates that matters could suddenly or abruptly change.

The Moon is also Void of Course.

In a relationship horary, a Void of Course Moon means nothing will happen and we can say that and be right 99.9% of the time.

But this is not a relationship question. We have to apply just a wee teeny tiny little ol' bit of common sense.

An appeal was filed in a court. Something will definitely happen.

The possibilities are these:

1) The court will grant the appeal of Venus
2) The court will grant the appeal of Mars
3) The court will grant in part and deny in part and remand
4) The court will grant in part and deny in part and not remand
5) Venus will withdraw the appeal
6) Mars will withdraw the appeal

I'm going to say the court will grant in part, deny in part and remand.

Does the court favor one part or another? Is the court sympathetic? I see no evidence of that. Neither Venus nor Mars make any aspect to the Sun. Venus is the Dispositor of the Sun, and I'm not really sure what to make of that.

The reason Venus is Slow is because she's about to go Retrograde, which will debilitate her more. Venus will come back and make a conjunction with Mars by Mutual Application, which is not good as that indicates something quick, forceful and often violent. I think we can rule out "violent" here because this is a court case and not a relationship in which someone will get beaten to a pulp by a drunken jerk.

However, with Venus in the 1st House, that makes Mars even stronger and is an indicator that Mars will win, at least in part.

Venus going Retrograde suggests the case will be sent back to the lower court for adjudication on that part of the appeal not granted. Venus will enter into Libra, and that make Venus more powerful, but Venus will be Cadent, and worse than that, in the Querent's 12th House. In sports horary when the significator of a team is in the 12th House it indicates a route because the team quits fighting and runs away. By that time the Sun will be in the Querent's 1st House suggesting that the court will now side with Mars and either the court will rule against Venus or Venus will withdraw from further proceedings.

That's hinted at by Mercury ruling the 2nd House (the Chart's 8th House) which represents the support and finances of Venus. Mercury will be in Via Combusta and then end up in Sagittarius where Mercury will be severely damaged. Since the 2nd House is the Querent's support and finances, this suggests to me that Venus will have to pay the court costs and attorney fees for Mars, or that Venus will have to pay additional monies in either alimony, child support or both.

Anyway, horary is quite useful, however anytime you have a definite date, time and location, you should always use an Electional/Event Chart as that would provide a more definitive answer.

Thanks BobZemco! Sent you a PM.

All questions answered and all sound very, very good. 1000 thank you's!

Bumping this up for panic attack reasons - does anyone see there is a chance this appeal WON'T happen? It's been filed by myself however I'm thinking there is a chance my ex will want to settle with his attorney - just some vibes I'm picking up.

I'd appreciate input from anyone. The venus retrograde is making me think this - we're in a latent phase but things will REALLY heat up on November 18th, when a response is do.

TECHNIQUE QUESTION - When I tried to do this myself I assumed I was venus - am I Mars because I initiated the complaint? I always think of women as venus and men as mars - but since the first house ruler is Scorpio I would think I'd be Pluto??? I'm off, need to start back at 101 Horary.

Thanks,
L

Opphiucan said:

Bumping this up for panic attack reasons - does anyone see there is a chance this appeal WON'T happen? It's been filed by myself however I'm thinking there is a chance my ex will want to settle with his attorney - just some vibes I'm picking up.

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No.

Some of my judgments were based on assumptions. Now that those have been clarified, you filed the appeal, he cannot withdraw.

If he fails to file a response and/or fails to appear, the court will hear the appeal.

If you fail to appear, the court will still rule.

If you both fail to appear, the court will still rule.

Even if you file Motion to Dismiss, and I don't believe you can because the underlying action was not initiated by you, or it was a matter of family court, the court can still rule if it chooses to do so, and it doesn't matter if they would grant or deny the Motion to Dismiss.

Opphiucan said:

I'd appreciate input from anyone. The venus retrograde is making me think this - we're in a latent phase but things will REALLY heat up on November 18th, when a response is do.

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No, Venus goes Stationary on November 18, at which point it is no longer Retrograde.

Opphiucan said:

Iam I Mars because I initiated the complaint?

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No, you are Mars because you are the Querent. It makes no difference if you are the appellee or the appellant.

Opphiucan said:

I always think of women as venus and men as mars - but since the first house ruler is Scorpio I would think I'd be Pluto???

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Only Moon, Mercury, Venus, Sun, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Part of Fortune and the Mean Nodes are used in Horary (and you can also use other relevant Arabic Parts in addition to the Part of Fortune).

Thanks Bob. Things start on Friday. I can't wait to tell you how it goes (in a year or so). LOL!

This situation is getting interesting - and I'm curious to get some other options. It seems (I am the appellant - my husband respondant - I'm Mars, He's Venus, Courts SUN)...Venus now in 12th house =

It appears since a few days ago my husband, his mother, the nanny are SHOWERING ME with a false respect and phoniness...I don't think venus going into the 12th house was something in my favor, like my husband running away and hiding. I think they've got a secret, switched attorneys and somehow come up with money...I don't know where.

I am worried about venus returning - I think the chart and the why things appear from my perspective pretty much show a major legal *** kicking and I'm the one getting it....

I think mercury heading into house 2 is a big sign that my first bill for this month will show I don't have the resources to keep up my end of the deal either...

Will I be successful with the appeal in court or settlement?

OK, so redone per request. I'm mars, husband is venus - acting like a crazy person in house 12. Sun, the courts are also in house 12 - don't know what this could mean. Mercury heading into 2nd - not sure if that's my finances debilitated or his...

Things are out of control - getting physically scared and my daughter is caught in the crossfire. He's using abusing language and acting crazy - sadly I've stopped responding and am reacting with how I'll never stop, etc.

Opphiucan said:

Will I be successful with the appeal in court or settlement?

OK, so redone per request. I'm mars, husband is venus - acting like a crazy person in house 12. Sun, the courts are also in house 12 - don't know what this could mean. Mercury heading into 2nd - not sure if that's my finances debilitated or his...

Things are out of control - getting physically scared and my daughter is caught in the crossfire. He's using abusing language and acting crazy - sadly I've stopped responding and am reacting with how I'll never stop, etc.

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I want to bump up this thread as I believe you need answers and help FAST. I'm no expert like Bob, but I can add this:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h9.html
9th House:
"...In the sense that the 9th house represents guidance and advice from those more knowledgeable than ourselves, lawyers, counsellors and advisors generally fall under the principles of the 9th house when they act in an advisory capacity.......... If a matter of law is being considered with respect to a ruling, the decision or outcome should be judged from the 10th house." From Skyscript.

9th House is your defence/lawyer, ruled by Moon, in your 10H, on an angle and mutable, fast and able to act.

For the outcome of the case, 10th house rules the decision. Your 10H ruler here is SUN - COMBUSTING him, and he's already extremely debilitated in 12th, retro and in detriment of Scorpio. Sun is applying to a trine to you, and you are in your 10th house (as Moon) of Success. Don't take my word for it, look here:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h10.html

You were asking about your monetary resources, well, it's the ruler of your 2nd house - possessions/valuables/resources - Jupiter Rx, in its domain in Pisces (in the 4th house) I am not sure what the retro means in relation to money, but probably that it's leaving your hands. It's in domicile, so I don't think it's as bad of a situation as you anticipate. (Hope I'm right!) Can someone weigh in on this too?

I don't know if the above helps in any way. I really hope someone else can help you with this second question, Bob's done an amazing job on the first. Good luck to you!!!

I really have only one input relative to the 2nd chart: by whole sign, Cancer is on the 9th house, and it posits the South Node (Dragon's Tail) To me this throws 9th house matters under a cloud: the defense/lawyer/ for querent might need to be thoroughly looked into, the anticipated legal plan critically examined...

Thank you so much Sagi Cap and Dr. Farr - everything is cloudy right now. Husband, defendant / respondant does not have an attorney anymore...everything is unknown / up in the air...but also very violent / aggressive regarding ex hub's behavior toward me.

THANKS!

The reason Venus is Slow is because she's about to go Retrograde, which will debilitate her more. Venus will come back and make a conjunction with Mars by Mutual Application, which is not good as that indicates something quick, forceful and often violent. I think we can rule out "violent" here because this is a court case and not a relationship in which someone will get beaten to a pulp by a drunken jerk.


V. curious about this - but important updates are below.

However, with Venus in the 1st House, that makes Mars even stronger and is an indicator that Mars will win, at least in part.

Venus going Retrograde suggests the case will be sent back to the lower court for adjudication on that part of the appeal not granted. Venus will enter into Libra, and that make Venus more powerful, but Venus will be Cadent, and worse than that, in the Querent's 12th House. In sports horary when the significator of a team is in the 12th House it indicates a route because the team quits fighting and runs away. By that time the Sun will be in the Querent's 1st House suggesting that the court will now side with Mars and either the court will rule against Venus or Venus will withdraw from further proceedings.

Attorney dropped husband - COLD. Husband has no representation, made public as soon as Venus entered Libra in Rx...interesting.

That's hinted at by Mercury ruling the 2nd House (the Chart's 8th House) which represents the support and finances of Venus. Mercury will be in Via Combusta and then end up in Sagittarius where Mercury will be severely damaged. Since the 2nd House is the Querent's support and finances, this suggests to me that Venus will have to pay the court costs and attorney fees for Mars, or that Venus will have to pay additional monies in either alimony, child support or both.

Additionally, apparently ex husband is BROKE, out of money, and can not afford representation. He is representing himself which in a high profile case is sudden death...but who knows. This guy is always lucky...ugh.

Anyway, horary is quite useful, however anytime you have a definite date, time and location, you should always use an Electional/Event Chart as that would provide a more definitive answer.[/QUOTE]

Don't know how to "quote" properly - here are Bob Zemco's notes with my updates. Amazingly accurate...so far!

The reason Venus is Slow is because she's about to go Retrograde, which will debilitate her more. Venus will come back and make a conjunction with Mars by Mutual Application, which is not good as that indicates something quick, forceful and often violent. I think we can rule out "violent" here because this is a court case and not a relationship in which someone will get beaten to a pulp by a drunken jerk.


V. curious about this - but important updates are below.

However, with Venus in the 1st House, that makes Mars even stronger and is an indicator that Mars will win, at least in part.

Venus going Retrograde suggests the case will be sent back to the lower court for adjudication on that part of the appeal not granted. Venus will enter into Libra, and that make Venus more powerful, but Venus will be Cadent, and worse than that, in the Querent's 12th House. In sports horary when the significator of a team is in the 12th House it indicates a route because the team quits fighting and runs away. By that time the Sun will be in the Querent's 1st House suggesting that the court will now side with Mars and either the court will rule against Venus or Venus will withdraw from further proceedings.

Attorney dropped husband - COLD. Husband has no representation, made public as soon as Venus entered Libra in Rx...interesting.

That's hinted at by Mercury ruling the 2nd House (the Chart's 8th House) which represents the support and finances of Venus. Mercury will be in Via Combusta and then end up in Sagittarius where Mercury will be severely damaged. Since the 2nd House is the Querent's support and finances, this suggests to me that Venus will have to pay the court costs and attorney fees for Mars, or that Venus will have to pay additional monies in either alimony, child support or both.

Additionally, apparently ex husband is BROKE, out of money, and can not afford representation. He is representing himself which in a high profile case is sudden death...but who knows. This guy is always lucky...ugh.

Anyway, horary is quite useful, however anytime you have a definite date, time and location, you should always use an Electional/Event Chart as that would provide a more definitive answer.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Just an update. So far NOTHING has happened since some bad energy in early December. However, we are starting to have a lot of tension. No court date set, transcripts are at attorneys, not known whether he has an attorney or not.

My husband's attorney did drop him, and a new one has not stepped up to the plate or been retained.

Probably should do another chart when I get a date which will be next year most likely?

Thanks, hope everyone is well.
Laura P.

Opphiucan said:

Just an update. So far NOTHING has happened since some bad energy in early December. However, we are starting to have a lot of tension. No court date set, transcripts are at attorneys.

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No such thing as a "court date" before an appellate court. The parties never appear, never meaning at no time ever (unless one of the parties is representing himself).

The way an appellate court works, is one party appeals claiming the judge in the trial or lower court made a reversible error, or misinterpreted case law, etc.

Either party or both may request an oral hearing to present arguments. The court may accept or reject the request for an oral hearing. An oral hearing if granted, will be before a panel of appellate court judges, or en banc, meaning before every single judge on the appellate court (very rare).

Once the attorneys argue the case at the an oral hearing (and the plaintiffs and defendants are never present), the judges will then issue a ruling. That will take a very long time, as long as two years if the appellate court is back-logged in cases.

If there is no oral hearing, the judges will decide based on the initial filings presented by both parties, and again, that could take as long as two years, but rarely takes less than 3 months.

Opphiucan said:

, not known whether he has an attorney or not.

My husband's attorney did drop him, and a new one has not stepped up to the plate or been retained.

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By law, an attorney must file a Notice of Withdrawal, when dropping a client. The failure or inability of a client to pay legal fees is a legitimate reason for dropping a client.

If he gets a new attorney, the new attorney will file a Notice of Representation stating that they are the new attorney and may also request to postpone any hearings for oral arguments until they are reasonably familiar with the case.

Unless this is a case filed in a federal appellate court, you can track the progress of any state appeals case on-line, just by going to the court's web-site. You can see the current status, and the last actions filed, and the next major action, just be reading the docket.

If it is a federal appeals court, you can still track the case on-line, but you'll have to pay for that privilege through a special service.

Regardless, an appeal has been filed, and the court will rule whether he has an attorney or not (inmates in prison often do not have attorneys or their attorneys drop them as clients).

We have requested his attorney file a notice to relieve himself as attorney of record, but so far he has not. However, he has sent countless emails saying "I am no longer so and so's attorney, please contact client directly"...however, I think it could be yet another tactic. So many underhanded things happened on their side and I decided to take the high road as always - true Sag, always the fool! Anyway, ex has indicated an adversarial relationship / no relationship with former attorney but we shall see what happens.

Normally you have 30 days as soon as all transcripts are received (there was an error in receipt of all our transcripts, so many hearings, which was approved of by the court). There is also a 30 day extension that is normally granted here.

So...any suggestions on what date I should use? The date my attorney requested transcripts, the date we agreed to appeal, the date it was filed with the court of appeals or the date we file "our case" OR whatever is next?

All suggestions welcome. I almost don't want to know at this point and just take one day at a time. But that will last about 45 minutes.

Thanks for your comments Bob, dr. farr and Sagi!

Laura P.

I would go with the date you file your case (posted above as "date we file our case")

Opphiucan said:

We have requested his attorney file a notice to relieve himself as attorney of record, but so far he has not. However, he has sent countless emails saying "I am no longer so and so's attorney, please contact client directly"...however, I think it could be yet another tactic.

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Smells like he's trying to stack the bench. All appellate courts operate in one of two ways, judges are assigned to the bench for a certain period, or they are randomly drawn to sit on the bench. Ohio does it both ways, it depends on the local Rules of Civil Procedure for that particular appellate court. The courts have 9 judges, and in some appellate districts, 3 judges are assigned to the bench to hear oral arguments for four months, then they rotate. In other appellate districts they randomly draw or draw on a schedule so that each judge sits one month at a time for a total of four months.

Where ever you are, they'll do it one of those ways, and his attorney might not like the judges sitting now, so he'll play delaying games and stall to see if he draws judges that might be more favorable.

If I would be your attorney, I'd file a Notice of Ex Parte Hearing, meet with one or more of the appeals judges and let them read the e-mails to get the case moving along. If he doesn't want your attorney talking with the judges about the e-mails, either he or his attorney will have to file an objection to the Notice.

And the whole point of this exercise would be that his attorney cannot at once claim to no longer represent him, and simultaneously file an objection, right?

Bob,
Thanks. That is good information to know - we have about 90 more days to file our actual argument so I'm don't think he's doing that just yet - we've had numerous problems with transcripts (getting half the transcript, "lost in mail", etc). I believe he is saying he is no longer representing him but holding off on being removed as his attorney of record because of a problem with funds and my husband's persuasive ways of having him hold out because "his ships coming in and I'll pay you by June" or something.

He will probably do that (what you described, or my ex's new attorney) as soon as we file our argument. They don't pull punches and I continue to stupidly take the high road. Anyway, we have a court appearance on the 16th as my jewelry (as well as all orders in the court) were not returned as ordered (he's ignored the other orders but you have to pick and choose your battles. Well see who the representation is then. He's been Mr. Cheerful lately so who knows...