Quick Questions About Essential Dignities

Moog

Well-known member
Using Ptolemy's chart to determine dignity.

If a planet is in dignity by triplicity, but in the sign of it's fall, would one trump the other, or would they interact somehow, or would the dignity by triplicity mitigate the debility by being in fall to some extent?

For example: Moon in Capricorn in a night chart

Another example: if Venus was in terms (7th to 14th degree) in Aries... would that go somewhat towards mitigating the condition of Detriment?

Cheers.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Using Ptolemy's chart to determine dignity.

If a planet is in dignity by triplicity, but in the sign of it's fall, would one trump the other, or would they interact somehow, or would the dignity by triplicity mitigate the debility by being in fall to some extent?

For example: Moon in Capricorn in a night chart

Another example: if Venus was in terms (7th to 14th degree) in Aries... would that go somewhat towards mitigating the condition of Detriment?

Cheers.

As usual Moog opinions differ and vary on this question and as I personally am no expert, here's a useful link to a Robert Hand article on the subject
http://stariq.com/Main/Articles/P0001767.HTM :smile:
 

Moog

Well-known member
As usual! :lol:

That's cool, I guess part of the process is in making your own observations and accumulating experience.

Opinions are good though, I can use them to navigate what feels right for me, and compare them with my own assessments.

Thanks for the article, JUPITERASC!
 

Culpeper

Premium Member
From experience I have found that the dignities and debilities of a planet do not mix. If a planet is in its triplicity and detriment these conditions will appear at different times in a person's life. This is for natal astrology. It is necessary to master the timing systems to know when a planet will be helpful or harmful.

In the late medieval period numbers were added to the table of dignities so that the astrologer could add up a score in a horary chart to find a yes or no answer.

In an electional chart try not to have a significator with both dignity and debility since you may succeed but not like the final result.
 

Moog

Well-known member
From experience I have found that the dignities and debilities of a planet do not mix. If a planet is in its triplicity and detriment these conditions will appear at different times in a person's life. This is for natal astrology. It is necessary to master the timing systems to know when a planet will be helpful or harmful.

In the late medieval period numbers were added to the table of dignities so that the astrologer could add up a score in a horary chart to find a yes or no answer.

In an electional chart try not to have a significator with both dignity and debility since you may succeed but not like the final result.

Thank you for the helpful response. :smile:

I am only dimly aware of astrological timing systems, could you perhaps expand on the subject, or point me to a resource so I could learn about it?

Are we talking something like Planetary hours, Planetary Days, Firdaria?
 
Using Ptolemy's chart to determine dignity.

If a planet is in dignity by triplicity, but in the sign of it's fall, would one trump the other, or would they interact somehow, or would the dignity by triplicity mitigate the debility by being in fall to some extent?

For example: Moon in Capricorn in a night chart

Another example: if Venus was in terms (7th to 14th degree) in Aries... would that go somewhat towards mitigating the condition of Detriment?

Cheers.
you will probably find more info here in the stickys in this forum
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=39
:biggrin:

mutual reception
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_reception
detriment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detriment_(astrology)
http://altairastrology.wordpress.com/2008/03/03/understanding-the-three-debilities-of-detriment-fall-and-being-perigrine/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_dignity
Exaltation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exaltation_(astrology)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_(astrology)
 

Anachiel

Well-known member
Moog;

A distinction has to be made here between Dignity/Debility and Fortitude. I'm not specifically a natal astrologer but, from a horary perspective, if that should help...

Dignity/Debility is likened to when a planet is in its Rule/Fall, or in the Ascendant/12th, etc.

When one "trumps" the other as you said, this is called Fortitude. For example, a planet can get +5 points for being in the sign it rules and then another +3 points for being in its triplicity but -2 points for being in the 8th house, for example.

Dignity/Debility describes the state a planet is in. Whereas, Fortitude describes it's strength or endurance in the matter, so to speak.

Blessings,

Anachiel
 

tikana

Well-known member
Using Ptolemy's chart to determine dignity.

If a planet is in dignity by triplicity, but in the sign of it's fall, would one trump the other, or would they interact somehow, or would the dignity by triplicity mitigate the debility by being in fall to some extent?

For example: Moon in Capricorn in a night chart

Another example: if Venus was in terms (7th to 14th degree) in Aries... would that go somewhat towards mitigating the condition of Detriment?

Cheers.


We covered this once upon a time

When a planet is in Fall/detriment and at the same time it is in tripliciyt basically it is telling you that the planet is WEAK HOWEVEr the nature of the planet is still visible but very very weak. in another words.. say you are married to someone, you do not want to stay with the person but he/she is not giving you hell, you end up staying because you are comfortably unhappy

does this explain
T
 

tsmall

Premium Member
Moog;

A distinction has to be made here between Dignity/Debility and Fortitude. I'm not specifically a natal astrologer but, from a horary perspective, if that should help...

Dignity/Debility is likened to when a planet is in its Rule/Fall, or in the Ascendant/12th, etc.

When one "trumps" the other as you said, this is called Fortitude. For example, a planet can get +5 points for being in the sign it rules and then another +3 points for being in its triplicity but -2 points for being in the 8th house, for example.

Dignity/Debility describes the state a planet is in. Whereas, Fortitude describes it's strength or endurance in the matter, so to speak.

Blessings,

Anachiel

To see if I have this correctly, would you say that essential dignity allows a planet to express it's "best" or most beneficial traits, while debility gives expression to it's worse or worst? Then, if a debilitated planet is "strengthened" through accidental dignity, it will have better ability to express the negative characteristics? So a planet could be in a really sorry state and have the ability to throw a fit all over the chart about it, and another could be sitting cool and regal but pretty much unable to do anything?
 

Anachiel

Well-known member
Essentially, yes.

There is a distinction between dignity/debility and fortitude. For example, a person can be very talented or beautiful or intelligent (dignity) but, have little strength or ambition or energy to do anything with it (fortitude).

On the other hand a person can be very cruel, dim-witted or angry (debility) and have a lot of drive, energy and ambition to express it in the world or use it for corrupted means (fortitude).

Don't go off the deep-end about dignity and debility either. For example, Mars, when dignified is bold confident challenging, and unbeatable in competition, war or trials. When debilitated, he is prone to promoting war, quarrels and sedition. You can see the basic Maritian energy is still there but, it is used differently. Killing is still killing either way but one is celebrated and another is illegal. Yet, the circumstances of the action change it's affect upon the native (dignity or debility). Thus, one becomes a celebrated general and another an imprisioned murderer.

Same with fortitude, a planet strong or weak will temper it's actions changing one from perhaps a celebrated general to a mere football team captain. Or, a murderer to a person who simply has a really bad temper and swears a lot.

The trick is to not see these terms as immediately "good" or "bad". 'Mix reason with Art', the ancients said. Circumstances and environment and situation will modify the judgement.

Blessings,

Anachiel
 

tsmall

Premium Member
Essentially, yes.

There is a distinction between dignity/debility and fortitude. For example, a person can be very talented or beautiful or intelligent (dignity) but, have little strength or ambition or energy to do anything with it (fortitude).

On the other hand a person can be very cruel, dim-witted or angry (debility) and have a lot of drive, energy and ambition to express it in the world or use it for corrupted means (fortitude).

Don't go off the deep-end about dignity and debility either. For example, Mars, when dignified is bold confident challenging, and unbeatable in competition, war or trials. When debilitated, he is prone to promoting war, quarrels and sedition. You can see the basic Maritian energy is still there but, it is used differently. Killing is still killing either way but one is celebrated and another is illegal. Yet, the circumstances of the action change it's affect upon the native (dignity or debility). Thus, one becomes a celebrated general and another an imprisioned murderer.

Same with fortitude, a planet strong or weak will temper it's actions changing one from perhaps a celebrated general to a mere football team captain. Or, a murderer to a person who simply has a really bad temper and swears a lot.

The trick is to not see these terms as immediately "good" or "bad". 'Mix reason with Art', the ancients said. Circumstances and environment and situation will modify the judgement.

Blessings,

Anachiel

Thank you for that wonderful explination.
 
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