Hating Men

AppLeo

AppLeo

Well-known member
Bunraku said:
I think we’re talking vaguely so probably we’re not communicating what we want to with each other.

As to dividing and conquering...
People do that themselves IMO. People want to rule, people want to follow etc. people separate themselves with not-like minded people to be with other like-minded people.

You want to be an individual, which is to divide yourself out of the equation. The equation being the common people. It’s fine, and it’s your choice.

I want to separate myself from others for sure :) but identifying with a group or cause can be very empowering: protests, unions, political movements, hobbies even. Some aren’t by choice, like sex, race, etc. because people have a shared common experience that bonds them with another.

If there was an Ayn Rand movement, I’m sure you’d feel right at home! :)
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there's a difference between feeling at home in a group and being consumed by a group
going to a furry con or an objectivist meetup is all good for me. ayn rand used to meet up with many intellectual friends and called this meetup "the collective" as a joke

but when I start labeling people as evil simply because they're socialists and when all I see them as are socialist, and even worse, giving up on the more individual aspects of myself to align even more with the objectivist ideology, I'm being consumed.
 
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Bunraku

Bunraku

Well-known member
AppLeo said:
there's a difference between feeling at home in a group and being consumed by a group
going to a furry con or an objectivist meetup is all good for me. ayn rand used to meet up with many intellectual friends and called this meetup "the collective" as a joke

but when I start labeling people as evil simply because they're socialists and when all I see them as are socialist, and even worse, giving up on the more individual aspects of myself to align even more with the objectivist ideology, I'm being consumed.
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What do you consider being consumed by a group?

If they’re willing to die for it for example.. too extreme?
 
AppLeo

AppLeo

Well-known member
Bunraku said:
What do you consider being consumed by a group?

If they’re willing to die for it for example.. too extreme?
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well obviously dying is not a good thing
I already told you, being consumed by a group is forgetting your individuality
forgetting your own life, your own unique purpose, your own self
 
Bunraku

Bunraku

Well-known member
AppLeo said:
well obviously dying is not a good thing
I already told you, being consumed by a group is forgetting your individuality
forgetting your own life, your own unique purpose, your own self
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What if they view death as a good thing? (Some Religious groups)?

Can it be ones purpose to be part of a group ?
 
B

blackbery

Well-known member
The trouble with feminazis began in the 1970s. Prior to that, feminism was about gaining equality & giving women choices. After 1970, it became all about blaming men for everything & creating hate & hostility btwn the sexes. The feminazis then took to attacking women who wanted to stay home & be full-time mothers, they were called all kinds of derogatory names by the women leaders of the feminist movement. Unless you were on the bandwagon, hating men & working outside the home, putting your children in daycare with strangers you weren't considered a liberated women. You HAVE to do it their way & the feminazis dictate how you should live.


Feminists treat men badly. It’s bad for feminism.
The fixation on men behaving badly distracts from more fundamental issues.


That began to change in the 1970s with the rise of radical feminism. This movement, with its slogan, “The personal is political,” brought a wave of female anger at men’s collective and individual transgressions. Authors like Andrea Dworkin and Marilyn French depicted ordinary men as patriarchy’s brutal foot soldiers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...minists-treat-men-badly-its-bad-for-feminism/









waybread said:
Your entire OP is a gross exaggeration-- from about 1970.

I've known many feminists during my career, and not one hated men. Many were married to men or in a permanent relationship with one.

Nobody thinks that the Barbie doll is the cause of the oppression of women, where it exists. Barbie is just a metaphor.

Given the high divorce rate, most women who have the ability to get a good job want one for themselves. They know they cannot depend on a husband to ensure their financial security. Thankfully, now that a lot of old educational and employment barriers have fallen, it is possible for women to be their own breadwinner.

Isn't it time to treat human beings as human beings? And for you to do what you can to tone down the gender wars?
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B

blackbery

Well-known member
For sure, women have been oppressed but can you blame men for that or society in general? We've come a long way & women are now equal with men.
Many cultures or religions put men on a pedestal. How many women priests or monks do you see? Are men to blame for it all?

Are men to blame for racism? Homophobia? Inequality of wealth? Wars? I think you will find that both sexes can be equally racist, homophobic, cruel & greedy.

Actually women are to blame for the eating disorders for it's women that decide what 'beauty' is & they inundate the public with images of thin women & young girls try to imitate that & end up being bulimic or having anorexia nervosa. When I was 16 yrs old, I basically stopped eating because I thought I was fat. In fact, I'm quite tall & was thin but I read the magazines, saw the images on tv & convinced myself I had to see my ribs or else I was fat. It is not men that put this pressure on females but other females. Luckily, I met a wise, male teacher who took me aside to help me overcome this & after one year, I started eating properly again. Many other women I know were bulimic although I didn't take that route. Women who are overweight are ridiculed & bullied by other women. Women can be cruel with their name-calling & create low esteem with other females.

There are good men & bad men & good women & bad women. It's easy to blame men in today's world where the feminazis have done such a good job of making every women a victim & every man a brutal oppressor.

Why not judge a person, no matter their gender, skin colour, ethnicity, sexual orientation, political preference on their character?




A good study on women leaders showed equal need to conquer & create conflict as much as men. Women as 'peace makers' is a myth. Unfortunately, women can be just as evil & brutal as men.

Hitler's Furies: German Women in the Nazi Killing Fields



Wendy Lower’s stunning account of the role of German women on the World War II Nazi eastern front powerfully revises history, proving that we have ignored the reality of women’s participation in the Holocaust, including as brutal killers. The long-held picture of German women holding down the home front during the war, as loyal wives and cheerleaders for the Führer, pales in comparison to Lower’s incisive case for the massive complicity, and worse, of the 500,000 young German women she places, for the first time, directly in the killing fields of the expanding Reich.






Bunraku said:
“ You have frequently implied that problems with the world are due to men's conspiracy against women. ”

Because it’s true. The reason why the world is in such a mess and that women distrust men is because men have always put women down and oppressed them. It’s only until recent that women enjoy a few rights.

At least women are viewed as people these days. Not like property to be sold and traded off by guess who? MEN.

Don’t pretend like men as a collective didn’t do anything wrong :lol: and those who did nothing are just as bad as they let this evil continue.
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D

david starling

Well-known member
The perception by many women that men are hateful could be the result of emotional and physical trauma due to experiencing assault, and/or rape by a man, or even more than one man.

Happens MUCH too often, worldwide.
 
B

blackbery

Well-known member
David, not all men are rapists or murderers, just a small percentage. There are evil women out there too you know but not all. This conception that 'men are bad, women are good' has got to stop.

We've got to stop blaming one group & hating one group over another. Like somebody said, we're all humans.


Toxic Feminism


Feminism began as a challenge to male domination and female subordination. It could have become a champion of equality and the dignity of individual human beings. Unfortunately, contemporary feminism is not a liberation from sexism. It is true that feminism rejects anti-female sexism. But in place of anti-female sexism, it does not advocate gender-blind standards; it does not advocate treating individuals as complex human beings; it does not reject reducing people to their sex/gender. On the contrary, feminism, as indicated by its name, is a movement that sees people as defined by their gender, and lobbies for the interests of females. In short, feminism does not reject sexism, but advocates anti-male sexism.

https://fcpp.org/2018/07/11/toxic-feminism/




david starling said:
The perception by many women that men are hateful could be the result of emotional and physical trauma due to experiencing assault, and/or rape by a man, or even more than one man.

Happens MUCH too often, worldwide.
Click to expand...
 
Cary2

Cary2

Banned
david starling said:
The perception by many women that men are hateful could be the result of emotional and physical trauma due to experiencing assault, and/or rape by a man, or even more than one man.

Happens MUCH too often, worldwide.
Click to expand...

Who would argue with that? One rape is one too many. There is nothing insightful in this comment. It is designed to support the man haters in a kind of virtue-signalling doldrum that is rather thoughtless and certainly boring. It is only virtue-signalling. That does not make one virtuous, only pretentious and phony.

But not so long ago was a lurid scandal that spoke of a RAPE CULTURE! at campuses across the country. After several months of near-hysteria, it was shown to be a hoax. The data was conjured up. There was no rape culture. It was an attack upon the male gender by vicious sexists, female supremacists who are gutless and devoid of decency. They briefly found fuel for their volley against men, all men, since Modern Leftist tactics instantly converts any atrocity by an offender into a smear against all men. Leftist politics is as toxic as plutonium. It is hoaxes, smears, and lies.
 
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waybread

waybread

Well-known member
AppLeo said:
From my experience, it's fashionable to hate anyone(s) depending on which group you identify with at the moment.

I think it's important to realize that we are individuals. We don't actually belong to any group (for groups are just arbitrary collective divisions that can be rearranged in a nearly infinite manner). As human beings, it's our moral duty that we respect our individuality and the individuality of others.

We don't have to unite and consume one another, and we don't need to divide and destroy one another.

Just be a person. jeez
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Wow, AppLeo! I actually agree with you on this. :cool:

Blame it on my Aquarian/11th chord nature, but I truly like to think of people as people. I deeply respect certain people on the basis of their inherent goodness or achievements, but as the Muslims put it, we are all equal in the sight of God. (However you define cosmic consciousness.)
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
blackbery said:
The trouble with feminazis began in the 1970s. Prior to that, feminism was about gaining equality & giving women choices. After 1970, it became all about blaming men for everything & creating hate & hostility btwn the sexes. The feminazis then took to attacking women who wanted to stay home & be full-time mothers, they were called all kinds of derogatory names by the women leaders of the feminist movement. Unless you were on the bandwagon, hating men & working outside the home, putting your children in daycare with strangers you weren't considered a liberated women. You HAVE to do it their way & the feminazis dictate how you should live.


Feminists treat men badly. It’s bad for feminism.
The fixation on men behaving badly distracts from more fundamental issues.


That began to change in the 1970s with the rise of radical feminism. This movement, with its slogan, “The personal is political,” brought a wave of female anger at men’s collective and individual transgressions. Authors like Andrea Dworkin and Marilyn French depicted ordinary men as patriarchy’s brutal foot soldiers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...minists-treat-men-badly-its-bad-for-feminism/
Click to expand...

Blackbery, I think it's time for a history lesson.

When my mother was born, American women did not have the right to vote.

When I was a young child in an American state in the 1950s and early '60s, married women could not have credit in their own names. Discrimination against women in occupations and higher education was perfectly legal-- and practiced. Married women could get summarily fired from school teaching jobs, especially if they actually did the feminine thing and became pregnant.

When I graduated from college in 1971, the elite all-male Ivy League schools and professional schools were just starting to open up their doors to female applicants.

In the early 1970s, the U. S. was starting to admit that it was OK for married women to have careers, but there were serious debates about whether they should earn more than their husbands; and whether the husbands should be the primary bread-winners, with the wives' income reserved for "extras." I kid you not. There was a real concern about women taking jobs away from presumably more entitled and deserving men.

However, as more women entered the paid workforce in more remunerative jobs, the economy expanded and couples saw their net worth increase.

A very, very few outspoken feminists in the 1970s wrote extreme pieces that got co-opted by anti-feminists as somehow representative of an entire movement basically devoted to women's social, economic, and political equality.

The actress Marlo Thomas had a great line back then, "Free to be you and me." (Eh, AppLeo?)

If you wanna be a housewife and mother and have a husband/partner to support you, that's super. If you wish to defend your country as a soldier, that should be your right, as well.

How many self-declared feminists do you actually know personally?

Is equality for women something you have a problem with?
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
Cary, you seem to be fixated on labeling women who disagree with what you post as "man-hating."

Can you see the illogic here?

I don't think I've ever in my life met a woman who hated men as half the human population. I have met women who worked against gender-biased injustice. The lesbians I've known don't hate men as a group: they just aren't sexually attracted to them.

Good heavens. I mean, even Gloria Steinem is married to a man.

Something to consider is how most people actually live.

As I mentioned previously, my husband and I have been married for 24 years years. Previously I was married to my ex-husband for 20 years. I have two adult children, and am on really good terms with my son. I have an adorable grandson. Prior to his death, my brother and I normally got along fine. I have male friends. I worked in a male-majority field for over 30 years. I never would have survived, let alone thrived in it, if I couldn't get along with the guys.

But oh, no-- let a woman criticize your posts, and the best rebuttal you can come up with is that she's a man-hater????

Think also, about heterosexual couples' typical social lives. We tend to socialize with other heterosexual couples. My husband's and my standing card game and dinner parties with other couples wouldn't work so well if I couldn't bear to be around the husbands.

Are you married to a woman, in a heterosexual relationship, or were you at one time? If so, you know what I'm talking about.

I don't criticize your posts because you're a man and I somehow or other hate men. I criticize posts in topics I care about when I think the posts are simply incorrect.

But what is your issue with women, Cary? You seem to be stuck in about 1964.
 
D

david starling

Well-known member
Cary2 said:
Bunraku's statements are hardly isolated. They show the general nature of man-hate quite well, and one doesn't need to go far to hear more from many others.

You need an update, Waybread. To assert essentially that "some of my best friends are male" is typical of deniers everywhere. It is wilted and stale reasoning that matches your disingenuousness. "Oh, poo. Don't be silly." is thinly disguised rhetoric. Your creaky patronizing is your dominant trait.


https://www.prageru.com/video/feminism-20/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oqyrflOQFc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFpYj0E-yb4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-kxdyJs6y8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SWR6TQFpiE
Click to expand...


Is there an equivalent for "misogyny" when it comes to women hating men?

There's a humorous country saying concerning women's attitudes towards men, which isn't meant to convey hatred, just light-hearted exasperation:

"Men! Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em, and you can't just shoot 'em."
 
Cary2

Cary2

Banned
david starling said:
Is there an equivalent for "misogyny" when it comes to women hating men?

There's a humorous country saying concerning women's attitudes towards men, which isn't meant to convey hatred, just light-hearted exasperation:

"Men! Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em, and you can't just shoot 'em."
Click to expand...

I have shown that it is not just men saying it. It is also women saying it. These are eloquent and awesome women unlike what you find on the Left.

I appreciate that you are trying to assert that the Left has a sense of humor despite what people say. Meh.

The Left Ruins Everything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXbR3oADwaM
 
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