Sidereal Astrology is More Accurate

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
retinoid, just yesterday you told me that you find Sidereal more accurate for the timing of transits! IMO so it makes sense for you to use Sidereal for timing of transits then! You said you preferred the natal chart delineation Tropical gives you so use Tropical for that.

We are only explaining the way Tropical and Sidereal works and why Sidereal is a good system to use - experiment with both systems!
:smile:
 

retinoid

Well-known member
retinoid, just yesterday you told me that you find Sidereal more accurate for the timing of transits! IMO so it makes sense for you to use Sidereal for timing of transits then! You said you preferred the natal chart delineation Tropical gives you so use Tropical for that.

We are only explaining the way Tropical and Sidereal works and why Sidereal is a good system to use - experiment with both systems!
:smile:

Well no you aren't only explaining why sidereal is a good system to use, many on here are saying it is a much better system (read the title). Which I would disagree with. Yes with sidereal my Saturn is in the 6th house which I definitely am feeling and with tropical it is still in my 5th chart till october. But that is just a subjective experience. I have been losing in gambling so perhaps saturn is still in the 5th :tongue:
 

Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
@retinoid

Signs are not very important at all except for determining planets' strengths in signs. Have you looked at your friend's Mars strength and position in both? Also, try doing the basics of the chart Hellenistically in both. Try using all sorts of methods.

The title of the thread was meant to cause polarization. What more can I say?

Subjective experiences are legitimate as long as you know what you're subjectively experiencing. I subjectively experience an overbearing Saturn, which in sidereal it is (it's by far the stronger of my two final dispositors and effectively aspects my whole chart) but in tropical it is definitely not.
 

retinoid

Well-known member
@retinoid

Signs are not very important at all except for determining planets' strengths in signs. Have you looked at your friend's Mars strength and position in both? Also, try doing the basics of the chart Hellenistically in both. Try using all sorts of methods.

The title of the thread was meant to cause polarization. What more can I say?

Subjective experiences are legitimate as long as you know what you're subjectively experiencing. I subjectively experience an overbearing Saturn, which in sidereal it is (it's by far the stronger of my two final dispositors and effectively aspects my whole chart) but in tropical it is definitely not.

Signs also give you an idea on how the planet will work in that house. I'm not sold on sidereal it just isn't accurate and I have compared many charts between the two. And since people are comfortable w. tropical and it is accurate, it doesn't make sense for me to change when I read for others or myself.

But yes, I am sure if I really looked and nit picked I could say oh yeah, this causes how she seems extremely Aries with the sidereal chart. That is the fallacy of astrology. I could lie about how I feel and ask people on here to find out why and they will come up with reasons (even though I don't feel that way)....or I could just stay with the tropical and see that she has a lot of Aries in her chart :smile:
 

kennedyrosewhith

Well-known member
I completely agree. The fault of astrology is that it's so complex. There are so many factors that can behave in so many different ways that you'd be hardpressed to find someone who couldn't identify with a certain sign's characteristics to some extent. Now whether it works regardless, or it's really all bull, who knows?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
retinoid, you said:
I think transits are more accurate in timing using sidereal...though I don't think the signs make sense as I have said before. So I am conflicted. The ruler of my second house is the moon in tropical and mercury in sidereal. The moon makes so much more sense as my emotions depend on my finances...However, my venus+moon are situated in the last degrees of the seventh house in the tropical and is in the 8th house in sidereal (the 8th house makes perfect sense for me). So as I said, I just don't know.............................
retinoid you then said:
Signs also give you an idea on how the planet will work in that house. I'm not sold on sidereal it just isn't accurate and I have compared many charts between the two. And since people are comfortable w. tropical and it is accurate, it doesn't make sense for me to change when I read for others or myself.

But yes, I am sure if I really looked and nit picked I could say oh yeah, this causes how she seems extremely Aries with the sidereal chart. That is the fallacy of astrology. I could lie about how I feel and ask people on here to find out why and they will come up with reasons (even though I don't feel that way)....or I could just stay with the tropical and see that she has a lot of Aries in her chart :smile:
So clearly you have said that you use sidereal for more accurate transits and tropical for natal chart delineation :smile:
 

Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
I've made quite a few posts to be skeptical of astrology. I'm being increasingly more and less skeptical at the same time.

Astrology is based on metaphysics. This metaphysics is essentially a priori. Many parts of this metaphysics sound similar to psychological concepts, such as metaphysics cold and hot compared to psychology introvert and extrovert, which is probably just a coincidence considering the aforementioned example, among other things, was developed by Carl Jung who did not happen to study astrology at all. When practicing astrology, I should be able to take this metaphysical model, blindly apply it to the ascribed traits of heavenly (and mathematically calculated) objects, and then come out with an almost exact interpretation and see that it is true afterwards. The currently-irrational origin of something that might work is not a fallacy, but nudging the interpretation of something that doesn't is.
 
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tsmall

Premium Member
Signs also give you an idea on how the planet will work in that house. I'm not sold on sidereal it just isn't accurate and I have compared many charts between the two. And since people are comfortable w. tropical and it is accurate, it doesn't make sense for me to change when I read for others or myself.

But yes, I am sure if I really looked and nit picked I could say oh yeah, this causes how she seems extremely Aries with the sidereal chart. That is the fallacy of astrology. I could lie about how I feel and ask people on here to find out why and they will come up with reasons (even though I don't feel that way)....or I could just stay with the tropical and see that she has a lot of Aries in her chart :smile:

This gave me a chuckle, because my own chart is exactly the opposite. :smile: I can look at it in tropical, and need to dig really deep to see all the Virgo (it's there, but you have to hunt for it,) or I can look at it in sidereal and have everything make sense.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=336991&postcount=48
 

Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
This gave me a chuckle, because my own chart is exactly the opposite. :smile: I can look at it in tropical, and need to dig really deep to see all the Virgo (it's there, but you have to hunt for it,) or I can look at it in sidereal and have everything make sense.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=336991&postcount=48

My chart isn't even the opposite. My tropical chart makes no sense period, but my sidereal chart, almost makes everything makes total sense provided the ayanasyma both keeps houses the same and leaves Jupiter in Capricorn where it disposits to the much stronger (and often, in personal experience, overbearing) Saturn. I'm totally not an Aquarius. Maybe I acted like one when I was five, but that's the time (IMO) we're most susceptible to conditioning. I used to talk all the time (gradually less over the years, the time interval being suspicious to me) but now I'm a pretty quiet person and minus the occasional spurting of black bile (which is nothing unfamiliar), I'm generally happier.

Edit: If that wasn't clear enough on one of its more minor points:

"In the medical theories prevalent in the West from Classical Antiquity up to the Middle Ages, the body's health depended on the equilibrium between four "humors" or vital fluids: blood, phlegm, "yellow bile" (or choler) and "black bile". Excesses of the last two humors were supposed to produce aggression and depression, respectively; and the Greek names for them gave rise to the English words "cholera" and "melancholia". Those same theories explain the derivation of the English word "bilious" from "bile", and the meaning of "gall" in English as "exasperation" or "impudence"."

"Choler" links to "anger." As posted in another link in this post, "depression is anger turned inwards." Yellow bile correlated with hot and dry, black with cold and dry. Cold is directed inwards, hot is directed outwards. Coincidence.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I've made quite a few posts to be skeptical of astrology. I'm being increasingly more and less skeptical at the same time.

Astrology is based on metaphysics. This metaphysics is essentially a priori. Many parts of this metaphysics sound similar to psychological concepts, such as metaphysics cold and hot compared to psychology introvert and extrovert, which is probably just a coincidence considering the aforementioned example, among other things, was developed by Carl Jung who did not happen to study astrology at all.
On the contrary Rebel Uranian, Carl Gustav Jung himself says he studied astrology and I quote:

QUOTE FROM CARL GUSTAV JUNG: SOURCE:- C. G. Jung: Letters, volume 2, 1951-1961, pages 463-464, letter to Robert L. Kroon, 15 November 1958

"I have applied astrology to concrete cases. ... it is most suggestive to a versatile mind - unreliable in the hands of the unimaginative - dangerous in the hands of a fool, as intuitive methods always are. Intelligently used, astrology is useful. It often provides surprising insights. The most definite limit is lack of intelligence/literal-mindedness of the observer. ... Astrology is flourishing but is most unsatisfactorily explored despite very frequent use. It is an apt tool only when used intelligently. It is not foolproof and when used by a rationalistic and narrow mind it is a definite nuisance."

 
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Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
That statement was sarcasm, which I intended to make clear via the link's contents. I love irony but it's hard to use on the Internet.
 
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Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
I can always communicate sarcasm (or more accurately verbal irony, since all sarcasm is verbal irony but only verbal irony intended to hurt or "rend" is sarcasm) effectively in real life. If on occasion I fail to, I can correct people immediately afterwards. The Internet is clunky but at least it's not tiring like real life can often be.

Astrology most certainly has meaning in its study. Look at all the ideas we got from it i.e. words such as loony, venereal, martial, jovial, saturnine, and it seems that the idea of personality types (and thus tests) comes directly from temperament/four humors. I'm not sure if the practice of astrology itself is sensical or not but I see more harm in quitting than in continuing at this moment.

(My new posts do not void my old posts, not even if you're impulsive and sanguine or choleric. This does not mean that you have to reply to them if you have nothing to say.)
 
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serafin5

Well-known member
You know what I think is funny? We don't even know how all this stuff works and yet we're still sitting here demanding that it make perfect sense. I think someday we'll understand and someday it'll make sense, but I dont think that day is today. In the meantime, I'm going to keep looking.

I agree. I'm just gonna go and listen to some punk rock music; maybe have a beer and few more pretzals........:lol::lol::lol:
 

Yuusha

Well-known member
@JupiterAscendant

It's interesting that Jung noticed the psychological dimension of astrology.

I myself am amazed by the way astrology describes a person's psychology in such an accurate manner...in comparison to psychotherapists I've dealt with. Astrological aspects do take time to genuinely understand though.
 

Joswan

Member
Switching the reading from Tropical to sidereal could resulting ultimate chaos!! Just pick one of them and stick! ;)

*I've tried and almost crazy...:biggrin:
 

retinoid

Well-known member
This gave me a chuckle, because my own chart is exactly the opposite. :smile: I can look at it in tropical, and need to dig really deep to see all the Virgo (it's there, but you have to hunt for it,) or I can look at it in sidereal and have everything make sense.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=336991&postcount=48

Your sun just changed signs. Uranus and Pluto's signs are generational and don't matter a whole lot (I never look at uranus, pluto, chiron, neptune's signs because classical astrology never used them and they are generational excluding chiron)...

For me, I am a Scorpio sun and Scorpio mercury and Saturn Capricorn and Jupiter Cancer and Moon+Venus in Sagittarius and Gemini Asc.. This describes me pretty well. In Sidereal, I have NO water signs and I am all Libra and Sagittarius and Gemini (with a taurus asc.). I wish I was all Libra and Sagittarius and didn't have a lot of water but trust me I do! :happy:
 

Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
@retinoid - Moon and Venus are the "watery" or cold and wet planets, so look how powerful they are to know how watery you are.

I wish I could say that I was my tropical chart, but I'm not and anyways I sufficiently like who I am.
 

serafin5

Well-known member
Tropical is a spin off of pop culture? :lol: People can use either one. I have looked at sidereal vs. tropical charts for many people I know and I just don't think sidereal explains them at all. My friend who is an Aries asc., Aries sun and Pisces moon is changed into a triple Pisces which definitely does not describe her. But since YOU concluded the end all then we should all switch to sidereal since tropical was created by MTV :tongue:

:lol::lol::lol:

That's funny! The thing is is this is exactly my problem with sidereal too. Even though what I now know of it logically to me sounds like the more truer (?) way to cast a chart when I do this I do really try to have an open mind too, it's so hard to wrap my mind around the fact that now I am a Sun sign Aquarius (that was ok) but with a Libra moon and Asc????? I'm gonna need to really meditate on these changes (and others as well) and get back to yall.

Siderally,
Serafin5
 
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