Origin of gender associations of the classical elements?

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PrincessStropharia

New member
I was reading Schwickert's Cornerstones of Astrology and read about a correspondence between the elements earth and water to the feminine/passive and the elements of fire and air to the masculine/active... something I have heard before from other astrologers and occultists, and I was wondering what the origin of this line of thinking was? (If it is known?)

I had the thought that it came from Aristotle, and so I tried to find reference to it in some of his works... while I can find the active<->masculine and passive<->feminine stuff mentioned, I don't see the elemental correspondences? Unless I am missing something, I certainly am not well versed in his work.

Anyone knowledgeable on this that can help me?
 
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david starling

Well-known member
PrincessStropharia said:
I was reading Schwickert's Cornerstones of Astrology and read about a correspondence between the elements earth and water to the feminine/passive and the elements of fire and air to the masculine/active... something I have heard before from other astrologers and occultists, and I was wondering what the origin of this line of thinking was? (If it is known?)

I had the thought that it came from Aristotle, and so I tried to find reference to it in some of his works... while I can find the active<->masculine and passive<->feminine stuff mentioned, I don't see the elemental correspondences? Unless I am missing something, I certainly am not well versed in his work.

Anyone knowledgeable on this that can help me?
Click to expand...

Here's a thoughtful article that might shed some light on the subject:

https://wisdomofourgrandmothers.com...ng-assumptions-about-gender-and-the-elements/

Personally, I use a Yin and Yang approach rather than gender. Yin is receptive and Yang is transmissive. It can be viewed as the colors blue for Yin and orange for Yang, rather than black and white. Another traditional combination is blue/red.

Fire-sign type women are predominately Yang, whereas Water-sign type men are predominantly Yin, for example. So, it's not really about gender.
 
P

PrincessStropharia

New member
david starling said:
Here's a thoughtful article that might shed some light on the subject:

https://wisdomofourgrandmothers.com...ng-assumptions-about-gender-and-the-elements/

Personally, I use a Yin and Yang approach rather than gender. Yin is receptive and Yang is transmissive. It can be viewed as the colors blue for Yin and orange for Yang, rather than black and white. Another traditional combination is blue/red.

Fire-sign type women are predominately Yang, whereas Water-sign type men are predominantly Yin, for example. So, it's not really about gender.
Click to expand...

This is very interesting David, thank you for sharing. The common reference point between what you said what JUPITERASC, about the confusion of the references of the dry/moist and hot/cold axes with masculine/feminine, and along which one the m/f opposition should fall, is very interesting to me. I personally was toying with what I considered an alternate approach to relating the elements to gender (novel to me, although probably not generally) in which one axis (hot/cold) is associated with masculine, and the other is associated with the feminine. Placing male/female as orthogonal rather than opposing forces seems much more interesting and reflective of reality to me...
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
It's really ancient, and comes from a Mother Earth/Father Sky dichotemy.

In Greek mythology Mother Earth was symbolized by Gaia, with the Father Sky being symbolized by the god Uranus. (Think missionary position.) Earth and surface water are therefore feminine, and air and fire are masculine.

Of course, even in Hellenistic astrology we run into all kinds of contradictions, like the masculine planet Mars ruling feminine Scorpio, and feminine Venus ruling the air sign of Libra. Feminine Venus also rules the male bull sign of Taurus.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
We think of the Moon as feminine, because in Greco-Roman astrology all the deities associated with the Moon were female. However, the earlier Moon-deities in Sumerian, Egyptian, Hebrew and Babylonian were male. The name of the Sumerian and Hebrew Moon-god "Sin" (long i, so pronounced "Sine"), was the origin of the name of Mt. Sinai.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
waybread said:
....It's really ancient,

and comes from a Mother Earth/Father Sky dichotemy.
Click to expand...
"... really anciently..." NUT was the Egyptian SKY GODDESS :smile:

With her BROTHER and HUSBAND GEB, the EARTH

she bore Osiris, Isis, Set, and Nephthys
NUT was pictured as a woman
arched on her toes and fingertips over the Earth
her body portrayed as a star-filled sky
- star-filled aka CONSTELLATIONS

Nut's fingers and toes
were believed to touch the four CARDINAL POINTS
or directions of north, south, east, and west.
- The ANGLES aka CARDINAL POINTS
are the ascendant, descendant, midheaven
and Imum Coeli aka '....lower midheaven...'

These mark the cusps of the 1st, 7th, 10th and 4th houses
also referred to as '...CARDINAL POINTS' https://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/angles.html


PLANETS close to ANGLES are very prominent in their effects :smile:




Among her jobs was to envelop and protect RA the sun god
aka the SUN
Nut and her brother, Geb, may be
considered enigmas in mythology.
In direct contrast to most other mythologies
which USUALLY develop a sky father
associated with an earth mother
SHE personified the sky and HE the Earth

.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
PrincessStropharia said:
I was reading Schwickert's Cornerstones of Astrology and read about a correspondence between the elements earth and water to the feminine/passive and the elements of fire and air to the masculine/active... something I have heard before from other astrologers and occultists, and I was wondering what the origin of this line of thinking was? (If it is known?)

I had the thought that it came from Aristotle, and so I tried to find reference to it in some of his works... while I can find the active<->masculine and passive<->feminine stuff mentioned, I don't see the elemental correspondences? Unless I am missing something, I certainly am not well versed in his work.

Anyone knowledgeable on this that can help me?
Click to expand...

Masculine / Feminine


- in many ways the polarities of masculinity and femininity
are SIMILAR to those of SECT a traditional concept :smile:

aka diurnal/nocturnal

masculinity representing the active, solar principle
and
femininity representing the passive
or receptive lunar principle.

But

diurnal/nocturnal definitions seem
to be more dependent upon the generation of heat - diurnal
or
lack of it - nocturnal
whilst the masculine/feminine definitions
are more dependent upon dryness - masculinity
or
moisture - femininity.


The masculine/feminine definitions are also heavily dependent
upon Pythagorean numerological principles
where all the masculine signs
- which are also the diurnal ones
are the odd numbered ones
and
all the feminine signs - which are also the nocturnal ones
are even numbered.


The masculine planets are the Sun and the superiors:
Sun, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn
the feminine planets are the inferiors:
Moon, Venus with Mercury being common to both genders.
The distinction may be partly based
upon the way that the planets emerge from conjunction with Sun
- the superiors always emerge on the right hand side
the Moon always on the left
with Venus and Mercury able to emerge on either side.

https://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/masculine_feminine.html

vMvUgc4.png




L3l6OD2.png
Click to expand...
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
PrincessStropharia said:
....I had the thought that it came from Aristotle,

and so I tried to find reference to it in some of his works...
while I can find the active<->masculine and passive<->feminine stuff mentioned,

I don't see the elemental correspondences? Unless I am missing something, I certainly am not well versed in his work.

Anyone knowledgeable on this that can help me?
Click to expand...


Aristotle's "...On Generation and Corruption..."
In terms of the heavenly spheres
with the Earth at its center and heaven above.
As the rays of the stars come down
they get filtered and filtered
until they reach us in an altered form




tradition as conveyed by Ptolemy and Placido.
Ptolemy writes in TETRABIBLOS:


They also assigned to each of the sects the two destructive stars
not however in this instance on the principle of similar natures
but of just the opposite
for when stars of the same kind

are joined with those of the good temperament
their beneficial influence is increased
but
if dissimilar stars are associated with the destructive ones
the greatest part of their injurious power is broken.

Thus they assigned Saturn, which is cold, to the warmth of the day
and Mars, which is dry, to the moisture of the night
for in this way
each of them attains good proportion through admixture
and
becomes a proper member of its sect, which provides moderation.
Click to expand...



Deborah Houlding writes:
"....MARS is damaging through its excess of heat
and is better able to produce a beneficial influence
when its natural qualities are harnessed
than when they are promoted
- as they would be if Mars were aligned with the diurnal sect......"


In the Sahl/Masha'allah translation by Ben Dykes
Dykes mentions
in the Introduction these qualities of the elements.
He writes:



The elemental qualities of hot and cold are strong/active
and
weak/passive respectively
and indicate lightness and heaviness respectively.
but
the dry and wet qualities are quick and slow, respectively.

That means that
- Fire is a strong, active and quick element;
- Earth is a weak, passive but still a quick element, like quicksand;
- Air is a strong, active but slow element
and
- Water is a weak, passive and slow element.

Interestingly in that scheme
Air = a slow element
and
Earth = quick
contrary to what we possibly think.
Click to expand...



ELEMENTS have GENDER


QUALITIES DO NOT


SIGNS - a pattern to the ELEMENTS:

Aries - Fire
Taurus - Earth
Gemini - Air
Cancer - Water
Leo - Fire
Virgo - Earth
Libra - Air
Scorpio - Water
Sagittarius - Fire
Capricorn - Earth
Aquarius - Air
Pisces - Water

The TRADITIONAL order
is fire, earth, air, and water according to the signs.

Bonatti explains this
as: "....generation happens most strongly be heat - fire
endures by dryness - earth
corrupted by moisture - air
and
destroyed by coldness - water....."

One of the benefits of someone like Bonatti
and many other traditional writers
is that they combined earlier masters' works
and combined them with their own experience.
Astrologers like Bonatti did hundreds of charts.
That's where application comes in.
study some TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY
to replicate what they are talking about
THEN apply them to people you know.


According to TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY
the motion of the planets corrupts the natural order
so by the time it gets to us, we get what we get.
Thus we live in an imperfect world.
IF the ELEMENTS came down to us uncorrupted
then
it would result in preservation, not corruption.


It's clear in TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY
that it's the motion of the planets that corrupt the elements.
i.e.
If the ELEMENTS come from above/heaven/god/what have you
and
the stars administer them
and
ELEMENTS descend
from above
down to earth
then
the elements are effectively being filtered through a planetary lens :smile:

When the elements are perfectly balanced
then you get the best of them.
However if they are not balanced, then corruption happens.
Air when balanced with fire makes a bigger flame.

Too much air blows out the flame.
Water and earth balanced enables life growing
 but too much water results in flood
which makes earth '...disappear...'



.
 
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