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  #1  
Unread 05-28-2020, 08:43 PM
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Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Background:

It is currently all over the news about the video footage of a white cop killing the black man George Floyd by putting his weight on his neck with his knee. He does not even relieve some of the pressure when Floyd loses consciousness and at one point he looks up into the camera and has an almost deranged look on his face. He and the other 3 cops have been fired, after being first placed on administrative leave, and his defense will of course be that he was following protocol and the argument in court will probably be about the technicalities of whether it was excessive or not, which of course it was. Floyd was unarmed and had been arrested for the non-violent crime of using a forged $20 note! It is very frustrating because while he is pinned to the ground, the cops can be heard telling him to 'relax' and 'get in the car,' and he rightfully says he cant (because he's being pinned down). It's not the first time I've seen cops give conflicting orders. But my question is about the intention of the cop who had his knee on Floyd's neck, did he want to kill him? I hope the question is ok but like always I think horary answers the whole context of the situation and not just the question.

Interpretation:

The cop/s would be the 10th house, Venus Gemini retrograde, applying to a square with Mars in Pisces. Gemini could be the sign of multiple cops being to blame for Floyd's death. Mars is a natural malefic and in Pisces shows it has power over Venus, so the cop/s will likely be punished for their crimes and at least lose their jobs.

I take Floyd to be the house of a murder victim, the 8th, or possibly the 7th. If he is the 8th, Moon's last aspect was to the Sun and had an opposition from Saturn, showing the arrest. Moon has just applied to a square with Uranus, showing his recent departure from the world. Leo is intercepted in the 8th in rulership of the Sun and the Sun is a significator for the life force, or the heart, so the coroner's investigation may show he died of heart failure.

Venus, the cop/s, is in Floyd's 12th house, if he is the Moon. Being in this house and being retrograde, could show the corrupt nature of the cops.


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  #2  
Unread 05-28-2020, 09:42 PM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Apparently the 4 cops have been fired from the police force.

If the cops are the 10th Venus, and the victim is 8th, we see Venus positioned on the cusp of the victim's 12th house of restraint.
Venus approaches the square of mars on the cusp of the victim's 8th house.

Moon from 8th of the victim approaches a square with Uranus on the cusp of the victim's turned 10th house, so an unexpected outcome which has pushed the victim into the public eye abruptly and unexpectedly.
Uranus also rules the victim's house of open enemies (turned 7th).
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  #3  
Unread 05-28-2020, 09:59 PM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Yeah they were fired after first being placed on paid leave but I wonder if the square to Mars means an official firing or even jail time. But 8 units of time we will find out.

Venus is retrograde and left a square with Neptune so there’s been a cover-up and a questionable nature, but I don’t know if my question is really well thought out or can be answered except to say the cops lack integrity.
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Unread 05-28-2020, 10:11 PM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
Background:

It is currently all over the news about the video footage of a white cop killing the black man George Floyd by putting his weight on his neck with his knee. He does not even relieve some of the pressure when Floyd loses consciousness and at one point he looks up into the camera and has an almost deranged look on his face. He and the other 3 cops have been fired, after being first placed on administrative leave, and his defense will of course be that he was following protocol and the argument in court will probably be about the technicalities of whether it was excessive or not, which of course it was. Floyd was unarmed and had been arrested for the non-violent crime of using a forged $20 note! It is very frustrating because while he is pinned to the ground, the cops can be heard telling him to 'relax' and 'get in the car,' and he rightfully says he cant (because he's being pinned down). It's not the first time I've seen cops give conflicting orders. But my question is about the intention of the cop who had his knee on Floyd's neck, did he want to kill him? I hope the question is ok but like always I think horary answers the whole context of the situation and not just the question.

Interpretation:

The cop/s would be the 10th house, Venus Gemini retrograde, applying to a square with Mars in Pisces. Gemini could be the sign of multiple cops being to blame for Floyd's death. Mars is a natural malefic and in Pisces shows it has power over Venus, so the cop/s will likely be punished for their crimes and at least lose their jobs.

I take Floyd to be the house of a murder victim, the 8th, or possibly the 7th. If he is the 8th, Moon's last aspect was to the Sun and had an opposition from Saturn, showing the arrest. Moon has just applied to a square with Uranus, showing his recent departure from the world. Leo is intercepted in the 8th in rulership of the Sun and the Sun is a significator for the life force, or the heart, so the coroner's investigation may show he died of heart failure.

Venus, the cop/s, is in Floyd's 12th house, if he is the Moon. Being in this house and being retrograde, could show the corrupt nature of the cops.

Considering this chart, what you said about the conflicting instructions fits this chart very well.

I use the 7th to represent basically anyone that isn't the querent, but I guess it's fair to use the 10th. One look and you'll notice the 10 car pile up in Gemini, with the ruler himself Mercury in the house. Mercury as the significator for the cops (the "other" in this scenario) in a Double-Bodied sign in the bound of the out of sect malefic Saturn says a lot. It seems to indicate intense ambiguity on the part of the cops. This may be in their instructions (as you pointed out) but also potentially in their intentions. The cop may not have even known what his intentions were considering Mercury in Gemini.

I don't use the Outer Planets very everything and anything, but I do glance at them when they make themselves relevant. Of note here is Mercury separating from Neptune, both in Double-Bodied signs. I don't think the parties involved have a clear understanding of exactly what happened and why.

It's very hard to get good answers on a person's intentions with horary. Horary tends to be more mechanical than that, often giving you the bare minimum as far as internal states go. As far as I'm concerned this chart gives big a "????????" as your answer. I would say, no he didn't want to kill George Floyd, but that might be a unnecessarily binary way of looking at his intentions. Considering the fact that Mercury, the planet of contradictions and paradoxes who is also in a Double Bodied sign (associated with ambiguity), is front and center, we have to be very careful judging intent from this chart.

Last edited by sworm09; 05-28-2020 at 10:15 PM.
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Unread 05-29-2020, 09:43 AM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sworm09 View Post
Considering this chart, what you said about the conflicting instructions fits this chart very well.

I use the 7th to represent basically anyone that isn't the querent, but I guess it's fair to use the 10th. One look and you'll notice the 10 car pile up in Gemini, with the ruler himself Mercury in the house. Mercury as the significator for the cops (the "other" in this scenario) in a Double-Bodied sign in the bound of the out of sect malefic Saturn says a lot. It seems to indicate intense ambiguity on the part of the cops. This may be in their instructions (as you pointed out) but also potentially in their intentions. The cop may not have even known what his intentions were considering Mercury in Gemini.

I don't use the Outer Planets very everything and anything, but I do glance at them when they make themselves relevant. Of note here is Mercury separating from Neptune, both in Double-Bodied signs. I don't think the parties involved have a clear understanding of exactly what happened and why.

It's very hard to get good answers on a person's intentions with horary. Horary tends to be more mechanical than that, often giving you the bare minimum as far as internal states go. As far as I'm concerned this chart gives big a "????????" as your answer. I would say, no he didn't want to kill George Floyd, but that might be a unnecessarily binary way of looking at his intentions. Considering the fact that Mercury, the planet of contradictions and paradoxes who is also in a Double Bodied sign (associated with ambiguity), is front and center, we have to be very careful judging intent from this chart.
I did wonder about the 7th house but I thought it was maybe the murder victim. As far as I am aware, you can tell a person's intention from horary by looking at the condition of the planet: if it is in its own sign and house it has integrity. Mercury being in its own sign and house shows the integrity of George Floyd and using 10th as cops, Venus being retrograde shows a weakened planet, or corrupt cop, and also in sign of George Floyd, if he is the 10th.

Have you seen the video? I don't want to post it because it is very negative and has upset me for a few days but in the video, it is clear the cop knew what he was doing. George Floyd said he could not breathe and eventually passed out and the cop with his knee on his neck, still did not relieve pressure, he was putting all his weight on Floyd's neck. So it was not a type of situation where there was a lot of panic about what was going on, many bystanders tried telling the cop to stop and he continued for over 8 minutes. The power went to his head. I can only assume that the Jupiter-Pluto approaching conjunction we have now is making a personal aspect to the corrupt cop's chart and all he has been corrupt for may years, and all he needed was a push to be so arrogant thinking he can do it publically. I just hope he gets charged with murder and not let off with some technicality, I am hoping Venus squaring Mars shows the cop's punishment.
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Unread 05-29-2020, 01:20 PM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Due to the way the question is formed, viz the subject being the cops, and the fact that the querent has completely dropped out of the question (this event has nothing to do with us personally; like in a football match the house 1 would be our favourite team, in a presidential race the same, depending on how the question is formed):

I give House 1 to the cops. The opposite house would be the victim.

That gives us a corrupted, out of character (retrograde) Jupiter in the 2nd, the 8th house of the 7th.

So the answer is positive

Jupiter, in a bad shape, knows no restraint.

Last edited by ameliaastrology; 05-29-2020 at 01:25 PM.
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  #7  
Unread 05-29-2020, 04:57 PM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Jupiter is extremely corrupted so would fit the character of the cop. I thought that the querent was always the first house since they are asking the question but what you say fits. Corrupted cops and a Mercury Gemini with integrity. Two of the cops involved had been investigated for using excessive force previously, including the killing of a black man and another who paid an out of court settlement of $25k for knocking another black man's teeth out.

It has also just been said in the news that the victim has previously been in prison for armed robbery, although the cops did not know this so it would not have had an influence on their reactions, but it can be seen in the chart with the moon separating from Saturn (the jail) 6 units ago.
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Unread 05-29-2020, 07:24 PM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Not to muddy the waters, but today I came across a chart about a murder enquiry, and it assigned the murderer to the 8th, the victim to the 12th.
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Unread 05-29-2020, 10:43 PM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Was it a chart from aw? I googled about houses again and there was an article on sky script that said the 8th is the condition of death.

With what is going on with the 1-7th axis, I think the cop and Floyd is one of these houses and 10th house is cops in general. The retrograde motion of Venus shows the current distress of the police with the protests and precincts being burnt down.

Jupiter is in the turned 8th and Venus has reception to mercury, so I think mercury is the cop who murdered him. Mercury is also about to go retrograde, showing the distress of the cop as he’s just been charged with murder.

Jupiter is already in a bad shape because the victim is dead and is 7th from 7th.

The 8th house as condition of death is showing Floyd was restrained with the past opposition from Saturn, which triggered heart disease, with the past sextile from the sun. Preliminary findings from the autopsy show heart disease was the underlying cause.

Moon is also in rulership of the sun showing this is how he died, and then finally the square to Uranus showing Floyd’s exit.

Last edited by Ukpoohbear; 05-30-2020 at 08:14 AM.
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Unread 05-29-2020, 11:21 PM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

do you really need horary for this?

George was on the pavement screaming "I can't breathe" and that pig Derek Chauvin has his knee on George's neck... the other 3 cops are not doing anything either...He had 18 previous complaints against him. He thought he could get away with this one.

George was uncooperative - so bloody what?
He had fake $20 bill. big deal - so he died just because he had fake 20 bucks.

this is clear Lord asce for the pig and any past aspects and dignities / debilities should be looked at and also moon if not taken

Tik
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Last edited by tikana; 05-30-2020 at 04:11 AM.
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  #11  
Unread 05-30-2020, 06:47 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is online now
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

"Was it a chart from aw? I googled about houses again and there was an article on sky script that said the 8th is the condition of death. "

This is where I read it...

https://artnunymiss.wordpress.com/20...horary-answer/

She apparently does a lot of criminal work.

"Murder suspects, in my mind, go into the 8th house, just as investigations do. The ruler of the 8th house represents the suspect in a murder investigation. Here’s why. Any investigation involves an investment of resources: manpower, time, money, information, connections, etc. If it’s the right guy, and you find positive evidence, you’ve hit the jackpot, put this guy behind bars, and helped to increase the security and economic viability of the area maybe people will be more willing to do business in the area). If it’s the wrong guy, you’ve wasted resources (or feel like you have). You feel betrayed, and the guy who did it is still out there siphoning off quality of life."

She's putting in the viewpoint of resources, of other's resources.

And the victim:

"Okay, who are the victims, Y and Z? What represents them in your friend’s horary? People to whom we do service are represented by the 12th House, being opposite the 6th house, the service we do. Here, Libra is on the 12th, ruled by Venus. So Venus would represent Y, being the first victim mentioned."

It's a strange interpretation, but again she has a lot of experience in this sector.
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Unread 05-30-2020, 07:26 AM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Problem with your wording, and its whats confusing people. You are using the cop as the "quesited" - and making him the object of the question. However in your mind, you might be simply asking where George Floyd as intentionall killed.

was the cop triying to murder him?

or

was george floyd murdered? (meaning intentionally)
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Unread 05-30-2020, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikana View Post
do you really need horary for this?

George was on the pavement screaming "I can't breathe" and that pig Derek Chauvin has his knee on George's neck... the other 3 cops are not doing anything either...He had 18 previous complaints against him. He thought he could get away with this one.

George was uncooperative - so bloody what?
He had fake $20 bill. big deal - so he died just because he had fake 20 bucks.

this is clear Lord asce for the pig and any past aspects and dignities / debilities should be looked at and also moon if not taken

Tik
After I wrote my previous reply stating that the asc/Jupiter was Floyd the victim, I changed my mind and thought the asc and Jupiter would be the corrupt cop. And he is in Floyd’s 8th house, meaning a cause of his death.

I take the Moon as ruler of 8th to be the conditions of death. The autopsy is saying heart failure (Moon in Leo) and the past opposition from Saturn shows the restraint which caused the heart failure.

But yes, when I watched the video, it was clear it was murder and the corrupt cop was loving the power and control. But he will of course be hiding behind ‘protocol’ and so I wondered if there was a chance he genuinely did make a mistake. But Jupiter in Cap is saying he is corrupt, which fits the power-hungry look on his face when he looked at the camera. He is truly a narcissistic evil soul.

Last edited by Ukpoohbear; 05-30-2020 at 11:25 AM.
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Unread 05-30-2020, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
Problem with your wording, and its whats confusing people. You are using the cop as the "quesited" - and making him the object of the question. However in your mind, you might be simply asking where George Floyd as intentionall killed.

was the cop triying to murder him?

or

was george floyd murdered? (meaning intentionally)
I did wonder if the question was worded correctly but I didn’t know how to word it differently, the word ‘intentionally’ only occurred to me after posting. But the question was definitely concentrated on the intentions of the cop so the first option, ‘was the cop trying to murder him.’

Last edited by Ukpoohbear; 05-30-2020 at 12:07 PM.
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Unread 05-30-2020, 01:04 PM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post

I did wonder about the 7th house

but I thought it was maybe the murder victim.
I'm no expert
so keep that in mind


a basic of horary is that
we have to assign the proper significators
for George Floyd and Derek Chauvin
then
study any receptions between them
their essential and accidental dignity respectively
although an aspect is not absolutely necessary in this context
since we already know the event
in other words - we are not trying to connect Floyd with Chauvin
we know that Floyds death was caused by the Chauvin the policeman.

THE QUESTION IS "THE INTENT" OF THE POLICEMAN, CHAUVIN

and so

we have two "possibilities" to signify policeman Chauvin.

One is the accidental ruler as 10 AUTHORITIES =VENUS
iN THIS CHART VENUS although essentially dignified by term
and humane as placed also in gemini
NEVERTHELESS IS RETROGRADE and as such is accidentally debilitated.
i.e.
VENUS IS ACTING IMPROPERLY
- The planet is going backwards, the wrong way

the other possible significator for the policeman is
the NATURAL RULER OF POLICEMENT = MARS
and IN THIS CHART MARS IS IN PISCES

- also as mutable sign is indicative of more than one person
and is ESSENTIALLY DIFNIFIED BY TRIPLLICITY = good cop
in MERCURYS DETRIMENT AND FALL HARMS MERCURY
policeman detain "criminals" in order to protect people and enforce law JUPITER IS NATURAL SIGNIFICATOR FOR LAW
and MARS IS IN JUPITERS DOMICILE PISCES
but there is no past connection, as we have with VENUS and MERCURY

next we assign a significator for Floyd.
and since Floyd is a person unknown to the querent
Floyd takes 7th house
an essentially dignified MERCURY IN DOMICILE AND TRIPLICIITY
also MERCURY is strong because of angularit
in a humane Sign, GEMINI

Clearly
this policeman and/or these policemen, did not act properly RETROGRADE
AND AFFLICTED BY SUN -under the beams
they misused enforcement of law - VENUS IN JUPITERS DETRIMENT
perhaps they were afraid given his 6'7" height and hefty build
VENUS UNDER THE POWER OF MERCURY and UNDER THE BEAMS
- fearful, they used a "banned" police technique
- chokeholds/neck restraints that should not be used.
So they definitely acted improperly
- in fact they managed to kill Floyd
BUT at least according to this chart
it's not definite that policeman Chauvin was a bad person aka bad cop
because
VENUS IS ESSENTIALLY DIGNIFIED
nor that Chauvin "intended" to kill Floyd
because
VENUS IS NOT IN MERCURYS DEBILITIES instead is in MERCURYS DIGNITY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post

I just hope he gets charged with murder and not let off with some technicality
I am hoping Venus squaring Mars shows the cop's punishment
A former US police officer has been charged with murder
following the death of unarmed black man George Floyd.
Video footage showed Derek Chauvin kneeling on the neck of Mr Floyd, 46
who died after pleading that he could not breathe in Minneapolis, Minesota.


"He is in custody and has been charged with murder
We have evidence, we have the citizen's camera's video
the horrible, horrific, terrible thing we have all seen over and over again
we have the officer's body-worn camera
we have statements from some witnesses."
Mr Freeman told a press briefing that the investigation
into Chauvin who, if convicted, faces up to 25 years in prison
was ongoing and that he anticipated charges against the other officers.
He said it was appropriate to charge "the most dangerous perpetrator" first.
The arrest comes after three days of protests
which escalated in violence as demonstrators torched a police station
that had been abandoned by officers.
Chauvin is one of four officers who were fired from the city's police department
following Mr Floyd's death on Monday.

He was detained on Friday
and later charged with third-degree murder and manslaughter,
Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman confirmed.
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Unread 05-30-2020, 01:22 PM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Two problems with this as I see it:

VENUS UNDER THE POWER OF MERCURY and UNDER THE BEAMS
- fearful, they used a "banned" police technique
- chokeholds/neck restraints that should not be used.
So they definitely acted improperly
- in fact they managed to kill Floyd

The procedure in itself is not banned, but advised under certain circumstances.

Obviously, not to the point of suffocating a suspect as in this case.



BUT at least according to this chart
it's not definite that policeman Chauvin was a bad person aka bad cop
because
VENUS IS ESSENTIALLY DIGNIFIED


Actually, this particular officer had 18 accusations of violence on his record.
Venus doesn't seem like an appropriate planet to represent him.
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Unread 05-30-2020, 01:35 PM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post

Two problems with this as I see it:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post

I'm no expert
so keep that in mind

VENUS UNDER THE POWER OF MERCURY and UNDER THE BEAMS
- fearful, they used a "banned" police technique
- chokeholds/neck restraints that should not be used.
So they definitely acted improperly
- in fact they managed to kill Floyd
The procedure in itself is not banned, but advised under certain circumstances.

Obviously, not to the point of suffocating a suspect as in this case.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post

I'm no expert
so keep that in mind

BUT at least according to this chart
it's not definite that policeman Chauvin was a bad person aka bad cop
because
VENUS IS ESSENTIALLY DIGNIFIED

Actually, this particular officer had 18 accusations of violence on his record.
Venus doesn't seem like an appropriate planet to represent him.
so clearly you would choose the other option I mentioned

i.e.
MARS
Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post

I'm no expert
so keep that in mind

a basic of horary is that
we have to assign the proper significators
for George Floyd and Derek Chauvin
then
study any receptions between them
their essential and accidental dignity respectively
although an aspect is not absolutely necessary in this context
since we already know the event
in other words - we are not trying to connect Floyd with Chauvin
we know that Floyds death was caused by the Chauvin the policeman.

THE QUESTION IS "THE INTENT" OF THE POLICEMAN, CHAUVIN

and so

we have two "possibilities" to signify policeman Chauvin.

One is the accidental ruler as 10 AUTHORITIES =VENUS
iN THIS CHART VENUS although essentially dignified by term
and humane as placed also in gemini
NEVERTHELESS IS RETROGRADE and as such is accidentally debilitated.
i.e.
VENUS IS ACTING IMPROPERLY
- The planet is going backwards, the wrong way

the other possible significator for the policeman is
the NATURAL RULER OF POLICEMENT = MARS
and IN THIS CHART MARS IS IN PISCES

- also as mutable sign is indicative of more than one person
and is ESSENTIALLY DIGNIFIED BY TRIPLLICITY = good cop
in MERCURYS DETRIMENT AND FALL HARMS MERCURY
policeman detain "criminals" in order to protect people
and enforce law JUPITER IS NATURAL SIGNIFICATOR FOR LAW
and MARS IS IN JUPITERS DOMICILE PISCES
but there is no past connection, as we have with VENUS and MERCURY
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ElenaJ (05-30-2020)
  #18  
Unread 05-30-2020, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
After I wrote my previous reply stating that the asc/Jupiter was Floyd the victim, I changed my mind and thought the asc and Jupiter would be the corrupt cop. And he is in Floyd’s 8th house, meaning a cause of his death.

I take the Moon as ruler of 8th to be the conditions of death. The autopsy is saying heart failure (Moon in Leo) and the past opposition from Saturn shows the restraint which caused the heart failure.

But yes, when I watched the video, it was clear it was murder and the corrupt cop was loving the power and control. But he will of course be hiding behind ‘protocol’ and so I wondered if there was a chance he genuinely did make a mistake. But Jupiter in Cap is saying he is corrupt, which fits the power-hungry look on his face when he looked at the camera. He is truly a narcissistic evil soul.
Heart failure - oxygen fuels blood flow, if thats cut off you have a heart failure.
He has no chance in hiding. Even cops across the US are highly criticdl of this not even mentioning 18 previous violations.
His wife dumped him as well
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ElenaJ (05-30-2020)
  #19  
Unread 05-30-2020, 04:11 PM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Well said Dirius, thank you for the comment:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
Problem with your wording, and its whats confusing people. You are using the cop as the "quesited" - and making him the object of the question. However in your mind, you might be simply asking where George Floyd as intentionall killed.

was the cop triying to murder him?

or

was george floyd murdered? (meaning intentionally)
and if you allow me, I' ll try to give another example: let's say i saw a strange object flying on the sky and i make the question:" is that object alien...ufo?"so since this is what i am asking(is that object ufo), i cant assign this object to 9th house(something foreigner...etc), because then automatically i assume it is an alien object.Instead i have to prove (astrologically in the chart) whether indeed is alien or not.So first i have to assign this object the right significator!!!!
or if i ask " did my friend "deliberately" said these bad things about me? which house i will assign to her? 11th( friend) or 7th(an open enemy to me)?or i will find the most debilitated planet on the chart and give it to her? obviously horary doesn't work that way.

For the same reason since in this context, the way was worded, we'are trying to find whether the cop "deliberetaly"wanted to kill Floyd, we can't begin our reasoning by claiming that this cop is corrupted-a bad cop, although we all have the same feelings about this "COP".Instead we have to check whether indeed his significator tells us that.


about ElenaJ's comment :
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
"Was it a chart from aw? I googled about houses again and there was an article on sky script that said the 8th is the condition of death. "

This is where I read it...

https://artnunymiss.wordpress.com/20...horary-answer/

She apparently does a lot of criminal work.

"Murder suspects, in my mind, go into the 8th house, just as investigations do. The ruler of the 8th house represents the suspect in a murder investigation. Here’s why. Any investigation involves an investment of resources: manpower, time, money, information, connections, etc. If it’s the right guy, and you find positive evidence, you’ve hit the jackpot, put this guy behind bars, and helped to increase the security and economic viability of the area maybe people will be more willing to do business in the area). If it’s the wrong guy, you’ve wasted resources (or feel like you have). You feel betrayed, and the guy who did it is still out there siphoning off quality of life."

She's putting in the viewpoint of resources, of other's resources.

And the victim:

"Okay, who are the victims, Y and Z? What represents them in your friend’s horary? People to whom we do service are represented by the 12th House, being opposite the 6th house, the service we do. Here, Libra is on the 12th, ruled by Venus. So Venus would represent Y, being the first victim mentioned."

It's a strange interpretation, but again she has a lot of experience in this sector.
8th house doesn't rule "murderers" (instead it rules death, issues related to death-funeral houses, undertakers.., inheritance, other people's money...etc).there are other ways to find whether someone indeed is a murderer, we don't assign a specific house to them, cause technically any person can become a murderer (either is a bad person and wants to harm and kill people, or unintentionally he did that, or he killed someone blinded from passion and jealousy, or he killed someone trying to defend himself ...etc)

and thank you Jupiter for your reasonable arguments!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
I'm no expert
so keep that in mind


a basic of horary is that
we have to assign the proper significators
for George Floyd and Derek Chauvin
then
study any receptions between them
their essential and accidental dignity respectively
although an aspect is not absolutely necessary in this context
since we already know the event
in other words - we are not trying to connect Floyd with Chauvin
we know that Floyds death was caused by the Chauvin the policeman.

THE QUESTION IS "THE INTENT" OF THE POLICEMAN, CHAUVIN

and so

we have two "possibilities" to signify policeman Chauvin.

One is the accidental ruler as 10 AUTHORITIES =VENUS
iN THIS CHART VENUS although essentially dignified by term
and humane as placed also in gemini
NEVERTHELESS IS RETROGRADE and as such is accidentally debilitated.
i.e.
VENUS IS ACTING IMPROPERLY
- The planet is going backwards, the wrong way

the other possible significator for the policeman is
the NATURAL RULER OF POLICEMENT = MARS
and IN THIS CHART MARS IS IN PISCES

- also as mutable sign is indicative of more than one person
and is ESSENTIALLY DIFNIFIED BY TRIPLLICITY = good cop
in MERCURYS DETRIMENT AND FALL HARMS MERCURY
policeman detain "criminals" in order to protect people and enforce law JUPITER IS NATURAL SIGNIFICATOR FOR LAW
and MARS IS IN JUPITERS DOMICILE PISCES
but there is no past connection, as we have with VENUS and MERCURY

next we assign a significator for Floyd.
and since Floyd is a person unknown to the querent
Floyd takes 7th house
an essentially dignified MERCURY IN DOMICILE AND TRIPLICIITY
also MERCURY is strong because of angularit
in a humane Sign, GEMINI

Clearly
this policeman and/or these policemen, did not act properly RETROGRADE
AND AFFLICTED BY SUN -under the beams
they misused enforcement of law - VENUS IN JUPITERS DETRIMENT
perhaps they were afraid given his 6'7" height and hefty build
VENUS UNDER THE POWER OF MERCURY and UNDER THE BEAMS
- fearful, they used a "banned" police technique
- chokeholds/neck restraints that should not be used.
So they definitely acted improperly
- in fact they managed to kill Floyd
BUT at least according to this chart
it's not definite that policeman Chauvin was a bad person aka bad cop
because
VENUS IS ESSENTIALLY DIGNIFIED
nor that Chauvin "intended" to kill Floyd
because
VENUS IS NOT IN MERCURYS DEBILITIES instead is in MERCURYS DIGNITY
.

if you allow me to add this: venus aside her retrogradation, which is a severe accidental debility, a testimony that the planet is not acting properly,and moreover once more accidentally afflicted by sun (being under the beams), venus applying loosely in this chart to Bellatrix, the female warrior, a fixed star also connected to military success, while the time of mercury-venus conjunction venus and mercury were exactly on this star.On the other hand mercury is also on Betelgeuse the Right Shoulder of Orion, and corresponds to the meaning of Mars with a touch of Mercury. ( The main stars in Orion carry similar meanings. They give power and the ability to achieve – but with restrictions.Fixed star Bellatrix is like Mars and Mercury ...It gives great civil or military honor but danger of sudden dishonor, renown, wealth, eminent friends and liability to accidents causing blindness and ruin....Fixed Stars and Constellations in Astrology, Vivian E. Robson, 1923, p.55, 145. / Betelgeuse is on the Right Shoulder of Orion, and corresponds to the meaning of Mars with a touch of Mercury. The effects of these properties is more propitious than those of Bellatrix, especially if Jupiter is also connected to it. Placed in the angles, preferment, luck, success and everlasting fame are promised. On the Ascendant and in conjunction with Mars, there is danger of death by lightning, fire, explosions, firearms or similar things. Elsbeth Ebertin recorded that in June and July of 1927, when the Lunar Node was in conjunction with this fixed star, that groups of people died by lightning or were victims of explosions or assassination....Fixed Stars and Their Interpretation, Elsbeth Ebertin, 1928, p.37.).

So practically in this chart the placement of the planets on these fixed stars, gives us once more a testimony of the way the cop acted.Does this means he had planned it?(he saw George Floyd and thought: i want to kill him? i don't think so) or he did abuse his power and the enforcement of law in a bad way (perhaps he was racist, or afraid of Floyd's corporature-physical appearance...etc) looks more like it, at least to me, not only astrologically speaking, but also in real terms.


**According to the information we have so far: manslaughter( technically they say 3rd degree/3rd degree murder in Minnesota carries a higher sentence than manslaughter, which would be five years), which usually means killing as the result of an accident. (involuntary or voluntary:voluntary would be if me and my friend get in a fight, and i punch them and without intending to kill them, they die.involuntary would be if me and my friend are taking a walk on a cliffside and i trip and fall into her and she falls off the cliff, or me and my friend are fighting and i punch them and they fall and hit their head and die.)First degree murder is killing someone “with malice aforethought”, or in other words you planned to do it.Second degree murder is killing someone without advance planning. For example, you get into a fight with someone, and the fight escalates to the point where someone dies. You meant to hurt him, but you did not mean to kill him.
So basically :The two elements that distinguish first degree murder from other criminal homicides are: premeditation and deliberateness. In other words, the taking of another human life was first planned or thought out and the act itself was intentional. The actor’s conscious objective or desire was to engage in the conduct or cause the result.

Last edited by Aria Venue; 05-30-2020 at 04:44 PM.
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JUPITERASC (05-30-2020)
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aria Venue View Post
Well said Dirius, thank you for the comment:

and if you allow me, I' ll try to give another example: let's say i saw a strange object flying on the sky and i make the question:" is that object alien...ufo?"so since this is what i am asking(is that object ufo), i cant assign this object to 9th house(something foreigner...etc), because then automatically i assume it is an alien object.Instead i have to prove (astrologically in the chart) whether indeed is alien or not.So first i have to assign this object the right significator!!!!
or if i ask " did my friend "deliberately" said these bad things about me? which house i will assign to her? 11th( friend) or 7th(an open enemy to me)?or i will find the most debilitated planet on the chart and give it to her? obviously horary doesn't work that way.

For the same reason since in this context, the way was worded, we'are trying to find whether the cop "deliberetaly"wanted to kill Floyd, we can't begin our reasoning by claiming that this cop is corrupted-a bad cop, although we all have the same feelings about this "COP".Instead we have to check whether indeed his significator tells us that.

8th house doesn't rule "murderers" (instead it rules death, issues related to death-funeral houses, undertakers.., inheritance, other people's money...etc).there are other ways to find whether someone indeed is a murderer, we don't assign a specific house to them, cause technically any person can become a murderer (either is a bad person and wants to harm and kill people, or unintentionally he did that, or he killed someone blinded from passion and jealousy, or he killed someone trying to defend himself ...etc)

and thank you Jupiter for your reasonable arguments!!
.

if you allow me to add this: venus aside her retrogradation, which is a severe accidental debility, a testimony that the planet is not acting properly,and moreover once more accidentally afflicted by sun (being under the beams), venus applying loosely in this chart to Bellatrix, the female warrior, a fixed star also connected to military success, while the time of mercury-venus conjunction venus and mercury were exactly on this star.On the other hand mercury is also on Betelgeuse the Right Shoulder of Orion, and corresponds to the meaning of Mars with a touch of Mercury. ( The main stars in Orion carry similar meanings. They give power and the ability to achieve – but with restrictions.Fixed star Bellatrix is like Mars and Mercury ...It gives great civil or military honor but danger of sudden dishonor, renown, wealth, eminent friends and liability to accidents causing blindness and ruin....Fixed Stars and Constellations in Astrology, Vivian E. Robson, 1923, p.55, 145. / Betelgeuse is on the Right Shoulder of Orion, and corresponds to the meaning of Mars with a touch of Mercury. The effects of these properties is more propitious than those of Bellatrix, especially if Jupiter is also connected to it. Placed in the angles, preferment, luck, success and everlasting fame are promised. On the Ascendant and in conjunction with Mars, there is danger of death by lightning, fire, explosions, firearms or similar things. Elsbeth Ebertin recorded that in June and July of 1927, when the Lunar Node was in conjunction with this fixed star, that groups of people died by lightning or were victims of explosions or assassination....Fixed Stars and Their Interpretation, Elsbeth Ebertin, 1928, p.37.).

So practically in this chart the placement of the planets on these fixed stars, gives us once more a testimony of the way the cop acted.Does this means he had planned it?(he saw George Floyd and thought: i want to kill him? i don't think so) or he did abuse his power and the enforcement of law in a bad way (perhaps he was racist, or afraid of Floyd's corporature-physical appearance...etc) looks more like it, at least to me, not only astrologically speaking, but also in real terms.


**According to the information we have so far: manslaughter( technically they say 3rd degree/3rd degree murder in Minnesota carries a higher sentence than manslaughter, which would be five years), which usually means killing as the result of an accident. (involuntary or voluntary:voluntary would be if me and my friend get in a fight, and i punch them and without intending to kill them, they die.involuntary would be if me and my friend are taking a walk on a cliffside and i trip and fall into her and she falls off the cliff, or me and my friend are fighting and i punch them and they fall and hit their head and die.)First degree murder is killing someone “with malice aforethought”, or in other words you planned to do it.Second degree murder is killing someone without advance planning. For example, you get into a fight with someone, and the fight escalates to the point where someone dies. You meant to hurt him, but you did not mean to kill him.
So basically :The two elements that distinguish first degree murder from other criminal homicides are: premeditation and deliberateness. In other words, the taking of another human life was first planned or thought out and the act itself was intentional. The actor’s conscious objective or desire was to engage in the conduct or cause the result.
Thank you for the detailed analysis Aria Venue
that must have taken much of your time
the key seems to be
- as Dirus & yourself already highlighted

THE WORDING OF THE QUESTION
which is unclear with reference to WHEN the intention developoed
i.e.
Definitely NOT PREMEDITATED MURDER
however
the cop in question was sufficiently experienced to know
that
DELIBERATELY CONTINUING THE VIOLENT ACT OF KNEELING ON THE NECK
of a victim who has said: "I cannot breathe"
AS GRAPHICALLY CAPTURED ON VIDEO
can certainly be construed as 2nd Degree Murder
according to former Public and Federal Prosecutor Trey Gowdy
Trey Gowdy on George Floyd's death: 'It was murder'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZY0UsddDss
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Aria Venue (05-30-2020)
  #21  
Unread 05-30-2020, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
I did wonder if the question was worded correctly but I didn’t know how to word it differently, the word ‘intentionally’ only occurred to me after posting. But the question was definitely concentrated on the intentions of the cop so the first option, ‘was the cop trying to murder him.’
The pig was charged with 3RD degree murder - manslaughter
He wasnt thinking "before i arrest him i m planning to kill him"
Whats not clear is why didnt he move his knee off Georges neck when the victim was saying "i cant breathe"
Id probably try him for second degree murder if i could get an answer to the q "why didnt u move your knee after you heard a plea"..

This is not 1st degree murder case
Bc u have no connection in receptions to lord 7th. We have a case of "i m above the law" jup is heavier than merc.
Now mer being in gemini critical degree is fortified by venus Pig didnt care if the victim dies or not. His interests sit in saturn and mars.

So answer to ur original q is no.
We have no aspect between merc/jup
No translations of light
No receptions/debilities of any sort

Last edited by tikana; 05-30-2020 at 05:05 PM.
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  #22  
Unread 05-30-2020, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikana View Post
The pig was charged with 3RD degree murder - manslaughter
He wasnt thinking "before i arrest him i m planning to kill him"
Whats not clear is why didnt he move his knee off Georges neck when the victim was saying "i cant breathe"
Id probably try him for second degree murder if i could get an answer to the q "why didnt u move your knee after you heard a plea"..

This is not 1st degree murder case
Bc u have no connection in receptions to lord 7th. We have a case of "i m above the law" jup is heavier than merc.
Now mer being in gemini critical degree is fortified by venus Pig didnt care if the victim dies or not. His interests sit in saturn and mars.

So answer to ur original q is no.
We have no aspect between merc/jup
No translations of light
No receptions/debilities of any sort
Yeah I can see how why the question was coming from the wrong angle yet the horary did amazingly well trying to answer it for me. Jupiter retrograde in Cap, the cop is corrupt. And the Moon as ruler of the 8th is fascinating as well.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
Yeah I can see how why the question was coming from the wrong angle yet the horary did amazingly well trying to answer it for me. Jupiter retrograde in Cap, the cop is corrupt. And the Moon as ruler of the 8th is fascinating as well.
Uhhuh also look at last lunar aspect
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Unread 05-30-2020, 05:58 PM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tikana View Post
Uhhuh also look at last lunar aspect
The sextile from the Sun, I took it to be the heart failure that resulted in his death. What do you think it is? Sun as a sig for the life force could be his life slipping away, almost as if there was a chance to save him when he lost consciousness but the moon square Uranus, he left this world.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
The sextile from the Sun, I took it to be the heart failure that resulted in his death. What do you think it is? Sun as a sig for the life force could be his life slipping away, almost as if there was a chance to save him when he lost consciousness but the moon square Uranus, he left this world.
Sun is his lord 6th.. pressure to perform.
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