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  #1  
Unread 07-22-2019, 04:18 AM
ellie04 ellie04 is offline
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Who is the cheated spouse/partner?

I read that Saturn is usually used to represent the cheated spouse/partner in a Horary involving 3 parties.

But what if Saturn is already one of the main significators? Which planet is then the cheated spouse/partner?

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  #2  
Unread 07-22-2019, 08:12 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is online now
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Re: Who is the cheated spouse/partner?

This is the first time I'm hearing this. Where did you read it?
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  #3  
Unread 07-22-2019, 08:16 PM
ellie04 ellie04 is offline
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Re: Who is the cheated spouse/partner?

On various websites and also in John Frawley's Horary book.

If you disagree, then pls tell me which planet / house usually indicates the cheated spouse/partner. Tks.
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  #4  
Unread 07-22-2019, 08:32 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is online now
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Re: Who is the cheated spouse/partner?

I don't agree or disagree, I'm just asking. It's the first time I've heard this.
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  #5  
Unread 07-23-2019, 01:09 PM
Hkk Hkk is offline
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Re: Who is the cheated spouse/partner?

Neptune I would’ve thought. However...... any aspect you have free will. The cheater for eg let’s say bad aspects to mars could cheat but then use that energy differently🤷🏻*♀️
The cheated I would like to clarify is Neptune
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  #6  
Unread 07-23-2019, 01:13 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is online now
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Re: Who is the cheated spouse/partner?

I would think it depends on the query and the chart, where the "cheated" person is assigned.
For example, "Is my husband cheating on me" is one case, quite different "Is my brother's wife cheating on him?".
I don't understand how a specific planet could represent the "cheated".
I do intend to look it up in Frawley's book.
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  #7  
Unread 07-23-2019, 05:23 PM
Hkk Hkk is offline
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Re: Who is the cheated spouse/partner?

Frawleys book?
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  #8  
Unread 07-23-2019, 08:45 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is online now
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Re: Who is the cheated spouse/partner?

[QUOTE=ellie04;987965]On various websites and also in John Frawley's Horary book.

That's what Ellie04 wrote.
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  #9  
Unread 07-23-2019, 08:50 PM
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Chrysalis Chrysalis is offline
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Re: Who is the cheated spouse/partner?

I wouldn't say it was necessarily saturn.

Just look at what planet L7 has recently been in contact with, if theres concerns of cheating.

I mean currently we have mercury retrograding back to venus. But this depends on significators of the chart, and what mercury rules in the chart.
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  #10  
Unread 07-23-2019, 09:06 PM
Hkk Hkk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
I wouldn't say it was necessarily saturn.

Just look at what planet L7 has recently been in contact with, if theres concerns of cheating.

I mean currently we have mercury retrograding back to venus. But this depends on significators of the chart, and what mercury rules in the chart.
Good point C x
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  #11  
Unread 07-24-2019, 10:23 AM
ellie04 ellie04 is offline
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Re: Who is the cheated spouse/partner?

Let's say I asked about my lover's wife. I'm L1, he's L7 and which Lord reps his wife?

Or if I ask about my husband's lover. I'm L1, he's L7 and radix 5th will be his lover?

Also, if I'm married and ask about my lover. I'm L1, he's L7 and who in the chart is my husband?

I realised that simply judging a planet that's with the main sig may not be accurate as Sun/Mercury/Venus move close to each other. I posted a chart before and someone said he was with another gal (because Sun with Venus) but I later found out it wasn't true.

Last edited by ellie04; 07-24-2019 at 10:33 AM.
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  #12  
Unread 07-24-2019, 10:31 AM
ellie04 ellie04 is offline
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Re: Who is the cheated spouse/partner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
I do intend to look it up in Frawley's book.
Read pg 81 of his horary textbook. I quote:

"In charts cast about affairs, presenting us with two 7th-house type people, if the lover is given Lord 7 as his significator, Saturn can be taken to signify the cheated spouse. If the querent is exalting the lover, the spouse is usually perceived as 'the greater malefic' frustrating their possible happiness."

He further said to verify this with how the planets are receiving one another.

Last edited by ellie04; 07-24-2019 at 10:35 AM.
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  #13  
Unread 07-24-2019, 10:40 AM
ellie04 ellie04 is offline
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Re: Who is the cheated spouse/partner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hkk View Post
Neptune I would’ve thought. However...... any aspect you have free will. The cheater for eg let’s say bad aspects to mars could cheat but then use that energy differently🤷🏻*♀️
The cheated I would like to clarify is Neptune
I follow the practice where I don't consider outer planets (Uranus/Neptune/Pluto) unless they're significant in the chart e.g. sitting on an angle or conjunct a significator.
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  #14  
Unread 07-24-2019, 10:57 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is online now
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Re: Who is the cheated spouse/partner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ellie04 View Post
Read pg 81 of his horary textbook. I quote:

"In charts cast about affairs, presenting us with two 7th-house type people, if the lover is given Lord 7 as his significator, Saturn can be taken to signify the cheated spouse. If the querent is exalting the lover, the spouse is usually perceived as 'the greater malefic' frustrating their possible happiness."

He further said to verify this with how the planets are receiving one another.
He writes about two 7th house significators. And how to distinguish between them.
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Unread 07-24-2019, 06:16 PM
Aria Venue Aria Venue is offline
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Re: Who is the cheated spouse/partner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ellie04 View Post
Read pg 81 of his horary textbook. I quote:

"In charts cast about affairs, presenting us with two 7th-house type people, if the lover is given Lord 7 as his significator, Saturn can be taken to signify the cheated spouse. If the querent is exalting the lover, the spouse is usually perceived as 'the greater malefic' frustrating their possible happiness."

He further said to verify this with how the planets are receiving one another.
in this case Frawley simply demonstrates an example where the husband according to receptions in this specific chart and the aspects is saturn ...this always has to be judged upon the specific context ..he doesn't say that whenever we have a husband and a lover, saturn will signify the husbandAlso when someone is suspicious about something though he/she may be right...automatically we mustn't assume that there's indeed a third person implicated..It's all upon the context and the chart...and indeed reception as also separating or forthcoming aspects to suspicious planets can be a hint..as long these planets/houses are relevant.For example ...approximately In 9 out of 10 charts Sun and Venus are the natural co-significators of the man/woman. But still.. there are charts where the Sun or Venus can be a 3rd person.Also you have to understand that there are times where the receptions are relevant, and when they are not....cause maybe the question was: |does he cheat on me?" ...not "does he love me or hate me?"...etc the chart is not obligated to show those dynamics always...or even the case where the querent who asks is simply so jealous that she/he thinks such things all the time...etc...so all of the above have to be taken upon consideration
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  #16  
Unread 07-25-2019, 12:35 PM
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Re: Who is the cheated spouse/partner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aria Venue View Post
in this case Frawley simply demonstrates an example where the husband according to receptions in this specific chart and the aspects is saturn ...this always has to be judged upon the specific context ..he doesn't say that whenever we have a husband and a lover, saturn will signify the husbandAlso when someone is suspicious about something though he/she may be right...automatically we mustn't assume that there's indeed a third person implicated..It's all upon the context and the chart...and indeed reception as also separating or forthcoming aspects to suspicious planets can be a hint..as long these planets/houses are relevant.For example ...approximately In 9 out of 10 charts Sun and Venus are the natural co-significators of the man/woman. But still.. there are charts where the Sun or Venus can be a 3rd person.Also you have to understand that there are times where the receptions are relevant, and when they are not....cause maybe the question was: |does he cheat on me?" ...not "does he love me or hate me?"...etc the chart is not obligated to show those dynamics always...or even the case where the querent who asks is simply so jealous that she/he thinks such things all the time...etc...so all of the above have to be taken upon consideration
Yes, I realised that we also have to look at the receptions and of course, whether there's suspicion of a 3rd party in the first place. We do not write our own stories into the chart. E.g. my husband and I had a fight and he's been cold to me since, and we see a planet with his sig and immediately assumes he's with another woman. Always check back with the querent.

The problem I have with reception is unless I know how the querent/quesited feels about that 3rd person (like/love/hate/loathe), I don't know to check the planets they're exalting/in domicile or in detriment/fall.

In one of Frawley's e.g., he assumes Saturn as the cheated spouse and it's in L1 sig's domicile so he declares that her husband loves her. How does he know that for sure unless he asked the querent or her husband? Probably he did... just that he didn't mention in the book.
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  #17  
Unread 08-06-2019, 09:47 PM
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Dirius Dirius is offline
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Re: Who is the cheated spouse/partner?

The reason why he says that Saturn could be taken as the "natural" ruler of the cheated spouse, when there is no reception or house position to determine a better planet, is because of the context of the question which was asked to him.

In the situation that lead to that question, the husband is in part the reason why the lovers can't be together. Thus the husband acts as a barrier that reduces the power of the planets to act in their affair, preventing them from being together. Saturn is the great "malefic" and prevents, restrains and diminishes the ability for planets to act according to their nature and desire. In the context of the question which was asked, the husband is the "malefic" individual whose presence in the querent's life restricts her chances to be happy. And thus, if there are no other viable options, Saturn would rule that which prevents the lovers from being together.

But this depends on the context: for example, if the question was about a wife having an affair with a much younger lover, with whom they are not in love and sex is the main motivator for the relationship, the planet Mars (which better represents younger men) in its role of the minor malefic, and secondary role as indicator of male sexuality, would be a much better option. This is because the planet better represents the attributes of the person in question.

So the idea of using Saturn when there are no clear receptions is because of Saturn's attributes. Properly identifying this can be a bit more advanced, but once you do many horary charts you gain an eye for this kind of things.
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Last edited by Dirius; 08-06-2019 at 09:56 PM.
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