Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Vedic Astrology

Vedic Astrology For discussions on Vedic astrology only.


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 04-25-2013, 01:38 PM
Ryan Kurczak's Avatar
Ryan Kurczak Ryan Kurczak is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 166
Tropical Zodiac with Vedic Techniques

A few years ago I discovered that the sidereal zodiac may well have been a fiction generated during the Kali Yuga. That was an interesting thought.

I doubted it and scoffed. Then I tried it. And much of what didn't work in astrology before fell right into place. I was quite shocked, and it was quite a paradigm shift!

I know Dr. Farr has experimented with this, as we've chatted about it before. (By the way Dr. Farr, I resurrected the Tropical Vedic Astrology Forum, and it will remain, as I feel it will be very worthwhile for further research and discovery as we share knowledge and experiences moving forward. I hope you return and join us once more).

This leads me to consider astrology as a science. Sciences are not based on nationalities or directions. Example, there is no Eastern Physics, or Western Laws of Chemistry. Nor is there Indian Aerodynamics or Celtic laws of Gravity. Since leaving the Kali Yuga, all sciences have made leaps and bounds, and Astrology is now doing the same.

Beyond our dogmas and pride of having the right way, shouldn't there be system of principles that all astrologers would apply to get the same results? So if you asked 20 astrologers a question, you wouldn't get 10 answers? I realize astrology is VAST, IMMENSE, and to do well, requires quite a mind for contemplation and analysis. And we may not even be able to comprehend even a 1/4 of it's potential yet as we just enter the dwapara yuga, but maybe, there is a way it can be done that has principles synthesized not based on culture but on actual mathematics and properly utilized technique.

Anyway, I'm curious how many others out there have actually experimented using the Tropical Zodiac with Vedic Techniques? I think there are more than would admit. (I'm not including the dashas here, as ayanamsha is whole other tangle to be addressed, but specifically in regards to personality and life experiences based on houses using Tropical signs.)

Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ryan Kurczak For This Useful Post:
dr. farr (04-26-2013), stainedBlue (04-26-2013)
  #2  
Unread 04-26-2013, 04:46 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: los angeles california
Posts: 12,474
Re: Tropical Zodiac with Vedic Techniques

What is the internet address of the renewed Tropical Vedic Astrology site?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread 04-26-2013, 06:34 AM
Metaphysica's Avatar
Metaphysica Metaphysica is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 104
Re: Tropical Zodiac with Vedic Techniques

I have studied astrology intensely for six years. Only recently confronted with choices regarding house systems or geographical, etc. Just in the past few months really started delving into Vedic astrology research. I've used astrosage.com and am trying to decide I on the software I want. (I use a Mac)
Besides the computer generated charts and tables,- I assume they use Hindu/ sidereal.- I can't help but to always fall back to my tropical natal chart. It was the one that first pulled back the veil.
I've been using both charts for comparison. Trying to enlist a friend or two to do a comparison of each method.
Very happy you started this thread!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 04-26-2013, 11:34 AM
Ryan Kurczak's Avatar
Ryan Kurczak Ryan Kurczak is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 166
Re: Tropical Zodiac with Vedic Techniques

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
What is the internet address of the renewed Tropical Vedic Astrology site?
www.tropical-vedic-astrology.net/forum
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ryan Kurczak For This Useful Post:
dr. farr (04-27-2013)
  #5  
Unread 04-26-2013, 11:47 AM
Ryan Kurczak's Avatar
Ryan Kurczak Ryan Kurczak is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 166
Re: Tropical Zodiac with Vedic Techniques

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphysica View Post
I have studied astrology intensely for six years. Only recently confronted with choices regarding house systems or geographical, etc. Just in the past few months really started delving into Vedic astrology research. I've used astrosage.com and am trying to decide I on the software I want. (I use a Mac)
Besides the computer generated charts and tables,- I assume they use Hindu/ sidereal.- I can't help but to always fall back to my tropical natal chart. It was the one that first pulled back the veil.
I've been using both charts for comparison. Trying to enlist a friend or two to do a comparison of each method.
Very happy you started this thread!
I've not studied Western, although at least two of my teachers who are also Vedic Astrologers have for over 20 years for one, and over 30 for the other. They both mentioned to me, after I discovered it..."Oh yes, we do Vedic Astrology but we've never really gotten the signs to work out right, so we use the Tropical chart for the signs."

Comparison is a great idea and that is the kind of research we need.

The problem with using the Tropical Zodiac with Vedic Astrology is that you have to use the techniques fairly well. For example, instead of using the lazy aspects of planets aspecting houses directly across from each other, and then the special aspects of Mars, Saturn, and Jupiter, you need to get the mathematics and precision figured out.

I believe its this video we mention that...

http://youtu.be/mx9U26bXWd4

Or you have to know how to use Graha Aspects (standard aspects most people use) and the Jaimini Rasi aspects.

http://youtu.be/GVT-5kPhkS0

Mentioned in that video.

And then there are the bhava cusps, and avashtas etc...

The point being, the problem is, as with any astrology. People often treat it like Tarot. They get some information (their deck of cards) and then start engaging intuition and don't use any system or systematic approach that should give the same results each time. Nor do they take the time to realize how vast the meaning of a planet or bhava is, and how intricate the whole process is. Rather than figuring out the intricacies, which could take years, decades or a lifetime, we rely on intuition which is sketchy at best unless someone has a great Jupiter!

It seems to me, after doing sidereal Vedic for about 10 years, and just barely starting to see the vastness, complexity yet beauty of a system that has rules that if any person learned them well, could apply, and every person who applied them would get the same results is really fascinating.

I hope more people take a harder look at this and really start to contemplate it. It was hard for me to make the switch, because of pride, and how I wanted things to be the way I was taught, but as a good friend of mine likes to say, you can't argue with results!

Hands down, the best software I found is...

Kala Vedic Astrology Software


The funny thing is, that I used this software for 10 years, and then one day, I thought...I need to know what the outer planets are doing. (We don't typically use the outer planets in Vedic Astrology.) And the creator of this software had information on that. Then I discovered his efforts to utilize the Tropical Zodiac as well.

Quite fascinating.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 04-26-2013, 02:21 PM
Kannan's Avatar
Kannan Kannan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 386
Re: Tropical Zodiac with Vedic Techniques

http://www.lightonvedicastrology.com...4&p=7954#p7954

kannan
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 04-26-2013, 08:24 PM
Ryan Kurczak's Avatar
Ryan Kurczak Ryan Kurczak is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 166
Re: Tropical Zodiac with Vedic Techniques

Wow. Kannan. That is a great thread of posts.

Maybe you've seen this?

http://ashevillevedicastrology.wordp...ernst-wilhelm/

Ernst also argues, that the Sankratis are falling on the wrong days. It makes sense.

The days actually begin changing around December 21 and not January 14th, correct?

Have you experimented with the tropical zodiac Kannan or explored Ernst's classes?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 04-27-2013, 05:55 AM
retinoid's Avatar
retinoid retinoid is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Boston area
Posts: 1,648
Re: Tropical Zodiac with Vedic Techniques

Yes I think Vedic astrology is very accurate but sidereal has been downright ridiculous when I compared charts of people who I am close to with their tropical...tropical seemed to describe them to a T while sidereal was way off. I just did not see sidereal as being correct...
__________________
"In this world there's a kind of painful progress. Longing for what we left behind and dreaming ahead."
-Harper, Angels in America

*If I read a chart it is via the whole sign house system.*
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 04-27-2013, 09:08 AM
Kannan's Avatar
Kannan Kannan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 386
Re: Tropical Zodiac with Vedic Techniques

Ryan Kurczak

Basically I follow Stellar Vedic astrology profounded by KP where 27 stars play a major roll. KP follows sidereal system but apply western Placidus house division in analysis and interpretations. I tried stellar astrology on Tropical Zodiac on one or two samples but ould not continue further this experiment for want of samples and time.

Sorry for not being able to help you except to say this aspect is worth studying. But I am getting good results with KP astrology using Sidereal Zodiac.

I agree that Nirayana system will not match the dates of annual seasons because corrections are not made against the annual recession

kannan
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread 04-27-2013, 04:57 PM
Kannan's Avatar
Kannan Kannan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 386
Re: Tropical Zodiac with Vedic Techniques

Ryan Kurczac

I went through the article by Ernst. Amazing. The question to be answered is this:Which is more logical to accept ? Whether it is the Tropical Zodiac based upon the orbit of the Earth around the Sun, or the the Sidereal Zodiac based upon the motion of the Sun (or the Earth) through the heavens. This question will remain unanswered as long as astrologers exist. The only way to answer this question is to prove practically studying the horoscopes erected both Tropically and Sidreally and drawing your own conclusion But one thing our Maharishis seem to have divided the orbit around the sun into 12 Rasis based on the charecteristics of the constellations.

Thanks for your post

Kannan
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Unread 04-27-2013, 06:43 PM
Ryan Kurczak's Avatar
Ryan Kurczak Ryan Kurczak is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 166
Re: Tropical Zodiac with Vedic Techniques

Hi Kannan:

Did you listen to that MP3 that went with the article? That goes into much more detail and explains what you are asking. Give that a listen, then I'd love to hear your input.

By the way, look forward to hearing from you on the Tropical Vedic Astrology board.

I don't know much about KP astrology, and would like to see how it works related to the two zodiacs.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Unread 04-27-2013, 06:45 PM
Ryan Kurczak's Avatar
Ryan Kurczak Ryan Kurczak is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 166
Re: Tropical Zodiac with Vedic Techniques

Kannan- As for dividing it up in regards to the constellations...that's not entirely proveable. Many early books do not mention constellations for the Zodiac, although they are mentioned for Nakshatras.

For example, I use tropical zodiac for rasi yet still use the sidereal for nakshatras. So the nakshatras are the same for me. The nakshatras were stellar based, and so constellation based.

The idea of constellations developed during the deepest part of the Kali yuga when a ?greek? astrologer named the constellations such, and then things got smeared together.

Anyway, too much to type. Take a listen to that MP3. Ernst describes it much better!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread 04-28-2013, 04:42 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: los angeles california
Posts: 12,474
Re: Tropical Zodiac with Vedic Techniques

Personally, I pretty much ascribe to the hypothesis (Rouell and others) that the signs originate from the Earth (as projections of Earth energies into space, each sign being a kind of "window" or "filter" of celestial energies and influences as they stream from space to the Earth), and that they (the signs) were given the name of the starry constellations in them at the time of the systemization of Greek (and CE Vedic) astrology; whereas I consider the Lunar mansions (nakshatras) to have originally been systematized entirely upon a celestial asterisms basis (sidereal from their origin), finding these asterisms both in very ancient Egyptian and also ancient Chinese astrology systems, almost exactly as we find them in later Arabic/European and CE Vedic systems.

(CE Vedic = Vedic astrology as being systematized into the form we are familiar with today, beginning around 100-200 BC, through around the 9th century AD)

Last edited by dr. farr; 04-28-2013 at 04:45 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread 04-28-2013, 05:18 PM
Ryan Kurczak's Avatar
Ryan Kurczak Ryan Kurczak is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 166
Re: Tropical Zodiac with Vedic Techniques

That's it Dr. Farr. That's the same here.

It fascinates me, that more people are discovering this on their own, one by one.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ryan Kurczak For This Useful Post:
dr. farr (04-29-2013)
  #15  
Unread 04-29-2013, 04:06 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: los angeles california
Posts: 12,474
Re: Tropical Zodiac with Vedic Techniques

Of course, in our hypotheses about these matters, we have to face the well-established facts that quite a few people appear to be strongly connected with their SIDEREAL ascendant (physical appearance, or temperament, etc) rather than with their Tropical sign-ascendant. How might we account for this? That's a tough question, but one hypothetical accounting for it could be this:
-IF the ascending degree is within 2 (perhaps 3) degrees of longitudinal conjunction with a star belonging to a zodiacal constellation, then the qualities/influences of that constellation are channeled (through the ascending degree) into the ascendant (1st house)
-OR, if a planet in the rising sign (ascendant) is in longitudinal conjunction with a star belonging to a zodiacal constellation, the same channeling (of that zodiacal constellation's influences) occurs
-NOW, if such a channeling occurs, then we could say that the zodiacal constellation's influence MIGHT be more prominent (in a given case) than the sign influence, in which case the zodiacal CONSTELLATION qualities and characteristics would be more prominent than the qualities and characteristics of the SIGN; in other cases the constellational and SIGN qualities and characteristics might be mixed; and in other cases, the qualities and characteristics of the SIGN might be more prominent than those of the constellation.

The doctrine of an angle (such as the ascending degree) or a planet, channeling into the chart the influences of the constellation to which a conjunct star belongs, is ancient (it is discussed, for example, by Robson in his "Fixed Stars and Constellations in Astrology", qv), so PERHAPS this MIGHT be the explanation of WHY, in quite a few instances, a given individual seems to be characterized by their SIDEREAL "ascendant" moreso than by their Tropical ascendant...

Last edited by dr. farr; 04-29-2013 at 04:09 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Unread 04-30-2013, 12:34 AM
Metaphysica's Avatar
Metaphysica Metaphysica is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 104
Re: Tropical Zodiac with Vedic Techniques

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Kurczak View Post
The point being, the problem is, as with any astrology. People often treat it like Tarot. They get some information (their deck of cards) and then start engaging intuition and don't use any system or systematic approach that should give the same results each time. Nor do they take the time to realize how vast the meaning of a planet or bhava is, and how intricate the whole process is. Rather than figuring out the intricacies, which could take years, decades or a lifetime, we rely on intuition which is sketchy at best unless someone has a great Jupiter!...
Quite fascinating.

I totally agree with that. Everything is mathematics. --I also think the same could be applied to reading the tarot, but that's besides the point.--

I'm finding my comfort zone within astrology, while being open to new discoveries, however skeptical of many. I'm very interested in vedic with tropical, that chart feels accurate.

I don't think we've barely scratched the surface of what astrology is capable of! And I like a humanistic approach to interpretation, via mathematical analysis. If that's even possible. Hehe

I'll check out those links later this evening. No time now!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Unread 05-01-2013, 01:24 AM
Kannan's Avatar
Kannan Kannan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 386
Re: Tropical Zodiac with Vedic Techniques

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Kurczak View Post
That's it Dr. Farr. That's the same here.

It fascinates me, that more people are discovering this on their own, one by one.


Given above is the chart of a girl in Tropical Zodiac whose marriage is fixed this year in June. I applied Vedic astrology techniques (KP) to show how it fits the marriage dates, Briefly KP rules are as under. 7th cusp Sublord is Mercury who is in 7. So marriage is promised and it will take place during the conjoined period of the marriage significaters of 2,7,11. And this period is Rahu Mahadasa, Saturn Bhukthi and Mercury Anthas Dasa between Febryary 16,2013 and July 15,2013. For want of space full details are not given. This is only to show how Vedic Techniqus and Tropial Zodiac together can be a useful tool for correct prediction . It should be noted that Sidreal Nakshatras (constellations) are used here in prediction as per KP techniques

Your comments please

kannan

Last edited by Kannan; 05-01-2013 at 01:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Kannan For This Useful Post:
dr. farr (05-01-2013)
Reply

Tags
techniques, tropical, vedic, zodiac

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 03:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.