Autism & Asperger's in natal chart

In my own opinion, I stay FAR away from Liz Greene. Issues of fate as they relate to illness, specifically illness that could be caused by many outside factors, is coming close to being dogmatic. Liz Greene is very dogmatic. S

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This topic has come up before, but I could not agree more on this one. She uses Bettelheim as an authority, whose theories on autism and 'refrigerator mothers' have been throroughly disproved now - and that is what she does here - blames the mother. I do wonder how that family must have felt, as Liz Greene 'asks to be excused' for putting forward a scenario here. Apart from anything else, she attributes a Mercury/Saturn link in the autism chart where none existed, though I did see what looked to be some interesting midpoints in the chart.

But yes - why look for gurus in our astrologers? Dangerous habit, I always think.

Erin Sullivan also looks at a family with a member with autism, and whilst there is a little bit of a tendency to look for 'identified victims,' at least she manages to do so without invoking Bettelheim and his ilk.

What both astrologers did do, perhaps, though with other agendas in mind, was to draw attention to the fact that both mothers seemed to have health problems of their own, hinting at compromised immune systems and ususual sensitivities elsewhere. Ad one thing Liz Greene did speculate was whether or not autism might not be about an intense vulnerability in 'being in the world.'

And why not listen to the evidence of people with autism themselves - I believe the chart for TempleGrandin isavailable, for example. I once, also read a fascinating autobiography of a woman with autism, who did have the mother from hell, who did have a very challenged natal Moon (I had the opportunity to see her chart once, and already suspected this was in large part about afflictions involving her Moon), who did have a very skewed sense of self (child psychosis, child psychosis), but who, interestingly, did not blame her mother in the least for her difficulties, but rather, in the first instance, on multiple food allergies and a faulty digestive system! In fact, she stated that her mother from hell, by not being too emotionally invested in her,actually did her a huge favour as she grew up!

But what was interesting is that many of the way she described her early predicament in life, could have come straight out of the pages of R D Laing. The intense vulnerability of 'being in the world' that Greene divined, is very much alive here, as she talks of a fear of revealing the 'self' and being 'imprisoned by crippled emotional respnses.'

But the thing is, nobody actually, still knows what autism actually 'is.' And it could be, that there is actually more than one cause. Perhaps, the cause has not been found, because it is holistic.

The Chinese, for example, see all disorders in terms of element imbalances and I can think of one that combines sensitivities to food, obsessive thinking and unresolved grief. So maybe in ancient China, there was no autism, no refrigerator mothers, just metal imbalances, that may or may not be passed within family.

It can be easy to find autism in the strangest of places. I have often felt that the Dracula of the original Bram Stoker was actually autistic, for example.

Nexus,

So many excellent points; I don't know where to begin! It was you I believe who inspired me to finally pull away from Ms. Greene when I joined the forum two years ago.

Temple Grandin is an EXCELLENT example. Here is her chart http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Grandin%2C_Temple

As you can see according to this chart, emotionally speaking, she has significant rapport (Moon trine Neptune), but perhaps neither the will (be it primal or mental) to exert this in how she relates to people. (Mars in Cancer as detriment, in 7th house.) Pluto WOULD be involved in this chart, with a conjunction to Saturn, both opposing the Moon.

This woman has made numerous contributions to our global understanding of things, especially animals. She used her own sensitivity to stimuli as a way to understand animals' sensitivity to stimuli, and eventually impacted farming practices across the world. She drew numerous connections between Autism and the Animal mentality.

She crosses apparent realities into places unseen, just as we are on the quest to find out the root of Autism.

I work daily with a young boy with autism. Autism looks very different on each child, since, as many of us know, it is a spectrum. It might be hard to find one reason, or one aspect, that speaks to it all.

As for Dracula, Nexus I did not know that! How fascinating. I now have to go re-read that book...

mod.

I have a son with autism and I have posted his chart, but taken it down as I'm not sure this is the best thing to do. I'm curious what people would find. He has a 12th house sun in libra and mercury rising in scorpio.

Modcleopatra

Thanks for posting Grandin's chart! Fascinating to see the chart of the 'anthropologist from Mars.'

I can't remember what I said before about Liz Greene - I think she has contributed so much - but even she claims she does not really mean to be a guru!

K Bell, I don't know how old your son is, or whether he is in a positon to assent to having his chart looked at on a forum. There is a good chance that autism may predate the chart. It is possible too that autism may 'use' certain difficult features within the chart, and certain transits may either ease or exacerbate it.

But itis still something of an unknown area.

Yes I don't want to post his chart up, but I will mention his mercury aspects:

mercury square neptune
mercury sextile mars
mercury bq jupiter
mercury semisquare moon
mercury square mc

The only chart I've looked at of a person with autism had a stellium in the 5th and the 8th.

I heard a show on NPR a couple of years back that I thought was interesting. They proposed the idea that autism is a form of human evolution. They said that the lifestyles we live today make skills such as eye contact and social interaction less important. We sit behind computer screens, and we've went from dropping by to see someone in person, to talking on the phone to simply sending a text message. We do a lot of work that focuses on details. The show said that people with autism might be better prepared for the world we are creating.

The show really made me think, and it was also very scary and depressing. It made me want to jump out my car and hug the first human I saw to prevent the human race from loosing our ability to connect with each other on a deep level. I know this is a sensitive subject for a lot of people, so I'm trying to balance sharing what I felt and being sensitive to how someone with autism might feel at the same time. In other words, please don't let what I've said offend you because it's not coming from a bad place.

Lillybelle

you haveto remember that it is only in the West that eye contact is consdered so important. In certain developing countries, however, its considered to be so intrusive as to be a violation of the soul. Sometimes, I suspect that what we now 'autism' are merely magical boundaries that have been with us for much, much further back.

Lillybelle,

I understand and appreciate your desire for human beings to be able to maintain a soulful connection with one another.

I second Nexus in the reminder that eye contact is a very Western means of socializing, and just not Western, but really, Western European/Northern American.

I mentioned in a previous post the possibility of Autism as evolution. We might therefore see in the chart of those with Autism specific and highly personal aspects (and perhaps angular connections) to the outer planets, particularly those having to do with change, namely Pluto and Uranus.

My personal experiences with those who are Autistic have not always been followed by feelings of disconnection. Many long for connection, touch, and interaction of all kinds, just in a different form, and for different reasons. Autism may or may not be the demise of culture, if it is to be any form of evolution at all. It may very well be an indicator of environmental problems, but not absolutely. Temple Grandin is a marvelous example to consider.

mod.

Hi. I only suggested the book for those who are seeking further thought-provoking views. I don't think anything is etched in stone. I don't subscribe to any particular author. I've just researched and studied astrology on my own for 25+ years, and the conclusions I make are based on that.

Having a chronic illness myself, I've thought long and hard about the ramifications (wrong word?) of saying that I, alone, am responsible, etc. I don't think I suggested that. I come from a large family in which one of the children was mentally handicapped. I will say that comparing my sister's chart to some of the ideas expressed by Greene opens a door for agreement.

I personally like Greene's work because of her background in analysis as well as mythology.

I only suggest that if someone is interested, pick up a book and read through it first to see if it is for you. If not, then put it back.

No one needs to remind me of that Venus-Saturn aspect today. I've been facing it all day. Blessings to all.

I've lived in a lot of different countries and spent a lot of time traveling, so yes, I know eye contact patterns vary from place to place. I would also include middle easteners on the list of people that enjoy eye contact.

The lack of eye contact I experienced with my exboyfriend's son, who had autism, was not the same type that I experienced in Japan or in some large cities in western countries. I'm not making a judgment call on how people use their eyes, but I did find the radio show that I listened to, and the larger topic at hand, to be intresting enough that I wanted to share the ideas presented on the show.

The issue here (the subject of this thread) is huge and complex. I have had direct experience in the homeopathic therapeutics of several autism cases (I shall not go into that on this site) I am personally convinced that the insightful study of the nativity and decumbiture (the latter set for the time and place when the parent first "saw" something "not right" in their child) will lead to more productive therapeutic results than anything else. May I offer a hint in this regard? Pay particular attention to the placement of (and significator planet of) the Lot of Injury (Mercury + Mars-Saturn.day or night; described by Paul of Alexandria, 378 AD) and also check its antiscion placement; also pay particular attention to everything about Mercury in the chart (go all the way to its duodenary placement), check where its "headed" (by the technique of Pauline dodekatemorion), and what's "underneath" it (ie, its antiscion situation)

Autism and Uranus.

http://blog.beliefnet.com/astrologicalmusings/2009/01/autism-the-astrological-connec.html



" I think of it now in later life (sixties) as a problem caused by
my astrology at birth, when Saturn was opposite Mercury. "

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090929054327AABrIye

Can I ask which company has admitted its vaccines helped cause autism? Any articles on the Net that discuss this?

A while ago I read something about a link between certain vaccines which contained Mercury and autism.

Here's a link, however, I am not an authority on this issue, or familiar with this organisation.

Nexus7 said:

Can I ask which company has admitted its vaccines helped cause autis,? Any articles on the Net that discuss this?

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It has long been a major campaign of conventional medicine worldwide, to deny and "disprove" any "causal connection" between vaccines and any chronic disease conditions-no pharmaceutical company has admitted any such connection.
Needless to say, we in alternative medicine dispute this-homeopaths have claimed to demonstrate connections between vaccination and various chronic disease susceptibilites, since Burnett's book, "Vaccinosis and its cure by Thuja", first published in Britain in the 1880's...

Caprising said:

Autism doesn't have to be something that we are born with, now that a major pharmacutical company has admitted that some of their vaccines cause Autism, we have proof of that fact. The onset of Autism should be decipherable in the natal/progressed and transit charts of the person who has been developing normally up until a certain age, and then became "Autistic". Look to Uranus/Neptune/Pluto/merc. and Saturn, in all of their aspects/placements. Is it a co-incidence that the Neptune conjunct Uranus in capricorn generation are the ones to be most affected by vaccines? I think not, the current T square involving Pluto square Uranus/jupiter and Neptune/Chiron is exposing the culprits, irresponsible big pharma, who put dollars ahead of anything else including our health! I suspect that there is an ulterior motive here too, which I won't go into now, as I have to work out if I'm on the right track or not!

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I was unaware that vaccines cause Autism. Thanks for this valid information. I’ve gone through the article you had linked and found it very helpful.

Vaccines don't cause autism. There is some evidence that there might be a link between certain vaccines that contain mercury, and autism. This is not the same.

But there is also some evidence that this is not the case.

Homeopaths believe that injection of foreign proteins (the vaccine matter) into the bloodstream may set up a chronic diathesis which the homeopaths term the "sycotic miasm", and that this diathesis opens the door to a wide variety of various potential disease processes; there is a great deal of information on this controversial subject available from homeopathic resources both in books and on various homeopathic and natural medicine internet sites.

Then you could also take it one step further and say that vaccines in general make us as a species actually weaker. But this is going off-topic.

Claire19 said:

I agree that Pluto is not involved I would say. The mind and the nerves are involved with Aquarius/Uranus Mercury/Gemini. The Moon for emotional problems and Neptune for lack of rapport or connection.

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I think my brother has something the is a but similar to these conditions, but he hasnt been diagnosed.

He has Venus conjunct chiron in the 9th (cancer) opposing saturn/uranus/neptune in the 3rd, saturn/uranus in sagitarius and neptune in capricorn. Then Venus/chiron and Neptune are creating a T cross square with mars in the 6th.

Im not sure if his problems are related to our mother leaving us at a very early age or if its mostly biology? Probably a combination.... He is very good at maths and also he plays a video game that he has played since he was 10, over and over again. But there is something strange about his social interactions.

I will post his chart later.