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Unread 08-21-2005, 09:35 PM
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Karmic astrology

Karmic astrology - Retrogrades and reincarnation

by Martin Schulman

Retrogrades and magnetism:

There is nothing in the universe that doesnt have magnetic qualities. thought itself is known to attract similar thought.
Each individual has his own magnetic energies based entirely upon how the makeup of his own planetary horoscope arrangement is used. All configurations attract certain things and at the same time repel others. Thus, the whole world is in a positive and negative condition at the same time.
In the individual horoscope some planets are positioned in a point of radiation where they constantly give out their energies to the world. Others are positioned as points of absorption through which the individual is able to assimilate the understanding he needs of the universe.
Truly, it is how the individual uses his planets which will determine their magnetic qualities at any particular moment above and beyond the basic magnetic quality of the planet. Thus, even planets which absorb can radiate, depending upon how the individual himself is polarized at any particular moment.
When a person is experiencing a great deal of energy, beyond what he needs at the time, most of his planets act as radiators and he becomes a giver to others. In the oppposite condition, when a person is experiencing less energy then he needs to function, his planets become absorbers, drawing from others the energy he his lacking.
Man has the ability from moment to moment to actually control his own magnetic field! to see this, consider the planet Venus, which itself is negatively magnetized and is generally thought of as an absorber. Yet, when an individual has, through all his other planets, more energy then he needs at any given momnet, he will use his venus to radiate love to others. the same applies to Mars, often thought of as aggressively masculine and self centered. In the same circumstances, when an individual has more energy then he needs, he uses his mars to energize others. This occurs with all the planets. From moment to moment and day to day, each planet is in part a radiator and an absorber.
It is to what extent one holds dominance over the other at any given point in an individual's life that astrology concerns itself. And the astrologer tries to the best of his ability, to teach individuals how to use their planets in both ways.
When an individual is able to usa all of his planets as radiators and absorbers, switching their polarity as is needed, he does not need a horoscope reading. But, there is rarely an astrology reading in which this is so. Usually, the individual is either absorbing or radiating too much or too little in terms of how he combines and blends all the planetary ebergies in his chart. To the layman, this is defined as having personal problems that one does not know how to cope with. To the astrologer it is only a polarization or magnetic energy and, as soon as the individual can be brought to understand and to develop control over his own magetic for fields, much of his personal problems miraculously disappear!
There is no question that Retrograde planets create quite a different force field for the individual to deal with than planets in direct motion. It has been the general lack of understanding of this forcefield that has caused so many individuals to experience so many personal difficulties in this area.
The general tendency is for the individual to try to use his retrogrades in exactly the same manner as he is using his planets which are in direct motion. And when this doesn't work he starts dividing himself into various unrelated states which can result in general misery.
With planets in direct motion it is very easy for the individual to switch the emphasis of the planetary energy within himself from moment to moment as his own total energy pattern rises and falls. However, when he tries to do this with his Retrograde planets he runs into quite a different situation.

Firstly, he is at any given time going through part of a threefold Retrograde Process. He is.
1. Jumping ahead of himself trying to live the future now.
2 In the process of living out the future, experiencing the feelings that he has already been there,
3 Repeating in mind the first phase, so that he is actually reliving the looking forward to a future that has already occured.

When the individual is in Phase 1 (jumping ahead of himself into trying to live the future now) it is nearly impossible for him to employ the retrograde negatively, fore he is trying to use all his energy for the propulsion of forward motion. Thus, during this phase he radiates outward so that he can magnetize himself towards all people and conditions which will bring about the future experience.
During phase 2 (when he is actually living out the experience) he is often unaware of phase 1 where he actually brought it about. but je does experience more deja-vu feelings than direct motion planet individuals. In other words he has the snse to know that he has experienced this before, but he doesnt know exactly how, when or why. It is this ambivalence that creates a cross vibration where he is operating negatively and positively as the same time. Part of him is positively radiating his desire to complete the experience, while the other part of him is negatively seeking to absorb the understanding of why the experience feels repetative to him. Naturally, it is during this phase that the individual is least understood by others.
Finally in phase 3 where he is repeating in mind the looking forward to a future thay he has already lived through, he becomes completely out of time synchronization with the rest of the world as he attempts to reabsorb the individuals and circumstances which will bring him back to the past. he is more understandable during this phase, but he is also more of an energy drain on others because he is radiating practically no outward energy.
It is interesting to note that phases 1 and 2 -the attept to live the future and the cross vibration of future-past, are so private to the individual that astrology hardly notices these as characteristics of the Retrograde. Instead, it has always been phase 3 of the Retrograde process (the past lingering or reteating characteristic) that has always been the most noticeable. Perhaps this is because this final phase is where the individual not only spends most of his time but also reacts in a more observably different way than society at large.

Retrogrades and the time factor:

Because of the threefold Retrograde Process, the individual experiences his life in different time sequences than those individuals with direct motions planets. In fact, the parts of his life that he experienced by Retrogrades are quite different than the parts of his life that he experiences though his own direct motion planets.
When the sequence of events in his mind is running in contrary motion or changing direction away from the sequwnce of events in his life, he is actually breaking the time barrier. Depending upon which phase he is in, he is living at least part of his life in a different type of time warp. Here in this amazind transcendence of time through Retrogrades is the major key to Karma.

Retrogrades and Karma:

Not only do Retrogrades cause the individual to regress back to yesterday, last month and last year, but they also induce regression back to former lives whose memories carry strongly into the present incarnation. these memories represent specific events or individuals that were meaningful enough in another life to still have a hold on the person now.
Whenever a Retrograde planet appears in the horoscope, the individual does not come forward in time sequence along with the rest of his chart. Instead, he keeps trying to resolve the earlier circumstances which still appear unfinished.
In these specific areas of his life there does not seem to be a demarcation between one life an another. His memories are so vivid that he doesnt even reconize then as memories. But rather they seem to him to be the present. Nevertheless he is living a dulled phase of another time zone whose irresistable magnetism seems even more important then his current life."

Retrograde Mercury Karma:

The individual with retrograde mercury is here to experience an unresolved karma in relationships. He has a tendency to react to others as if they symbolize people from his past. Thus, he has difficulty keeping the full focus of his consciousness in the "here and now."
Usually this manifests as difficulties with family and relatives. But the question of relationships goes beyond how one communicates with people. It also involves one's perception of the univers as a whole. Often there is a problem inherent in the retrograde mercury in terms of seing what might be called an inverted reality. the individual has difficulty understanding the very basic relationship between cause and effect. He questions the very essence of life itself, yet he cannot often see most simple links between things, circumstances, and people. Losing himself in thought which is beyond comprehension he must learn to be content with the very basic simplicities upon which life is founded. so intent is he on discovering that which is beyond understanding that he nearly always misses the obvious.
From a karmic point of view then, this individual must learn how to focus his attention on the reality of the present rather than losing himself in all of the transparent overlays he percieves. Once he can do this, he will be able to establish a firm reference point in the here and now through which all of the discoveries he makes can be expressed to the outer world.

Retrograde Venus Karma:

When Venus is Retrograde, the individual is carrying with him a great misunderstanding about love in a past life. Usually there was such intense hurt, that he now cuts himself off from fully experiencing the richness of love because he fears being hurt that much again. Whether male or female, there is much present life difficulty in relationships with the opposite sex.
While trying to live in the present, he endlessly recreates a past memory of love in a former incarnation which still keeps eluding him. He reacts to the present as if he were actually living in his past. In this sense he is fixated at a point in time, and no matter what he does there hardly seems to be forward progress that he says he wants.
In the charts of males, this sometimes indicates Larma related to homosexuality. But even homosexuality has its degrees, ranging from outspoken male who tries politically to sell homosexuality to the world down to the male who would not hear the word in his presence, is marries, but seeks every possible opportunity to avoid females while proving his masculinity. This latter type of male is the kind of individual whose life revolves around his male friends, using the guise of association, clubs, hobbies, and so on as an excuse for his avoidance of women. He can function respectably in society, but he is still a latent homosexual. Less often, we find similar reactions in the female with retrograde Venus.
The most noticeable Karmic pattern is that the individual, whether male or female has a powerful tendency to mistrust most offers of love, feeling that the individuals making these offers usually have ulterior motives.

Retrograde Mars Karma:

When mars is retrograde in the horoscope, all the actions of the individual in the current life are recreations of the past.
The individual tries to find people in this life who symbolize all those who fulfilled him in past incarnations. In his mind he throws them into the roles of these no longer existent figures. With them he tries to act out all that he could not previously express. He tends to over-react in an attempt to forcibly move them into the imaginary roles he has conceived for them. Thus he comes on too strong and sensing rejection but not understanding why, he pulls back into himself never fully experiencing his current life relations in the present moment.
He tends to center on a time from his past which represented a force he had to deal with. Now he unconciously vibrates to that exact same force, be it anger, revenge, hostility, or misdirected action in every person in the present. In some cases he may be carrying a former life grudge which makes him mistrust other people's actions. In at least one past life he has lived through suspicious or deceptive actions on the part of others. the residue of this in the current life weigh heavily on the present behavior.

Retrograde Jupiter Karma:

The karma in the retrograde Jupiter always deals with introspection through the higher mind. the individual must be able to justify himself to himself in order to feel that he is truly worthy of the respect and honor that Jupiter promises.
In some former incarnation there had to be a high regard for some religious or spiritual principle which the individual has seen violated. In the current life he feels even more determined to restate the value of this principle in his mind.
He has to guard against being judgmental of others as he sees an outer world vibrating to rules he cannot fathom.
still he must have patience with others, if he expects them to listen to the expression of his inner truths.
On another level, there is a tremendous amout of deja-vu experiences inherent in the Retrograde Jupiter. Times and places fromt he past all blend into a continuous present, such that at any given moment or in any given place, the individual is in touch with generalizing that time or place, the individual into all like times and places he has experienced. Thus, his conciousness expands through these two dimensions simultaneuosly, and often without limitiation. He does not know how to bind him mind totally inward to a fine point focus. Instead he absorbs the symbols of his thoughts from his environment, ultimatelly to learn that anywhere is home, and anytime is now!
The more these outer symbols represent the truths he learned in a former life, the more comfortable he becomes.

Retrograde Saturn Karma:

Retrograde Saturn always indicates a continuing Karma from past incarnations. Whatever the lesson, the individual is unusually slow in bringing it to completion. Thus, in this life he needs to carry the extra weight in his soul of a former life so that when the two ultimately combine there will be enough evidence for him to fully understand his true mission. Much of what he does in this life is a repeat of what his saturn already stands for. But now he faces circumstances and situations that are slightly different. the Retrograde action of the planet can make him feel its retrictive force, particularly if he tries to escape the weight of its lesson. But, if he flows with it, understanding that through the patient guidance he is recieving, he is slowly being led to identification with something higher than he may have imagined, he can truly appreciate the workings of god's beautiful universe through this planet.
Saturn is one's teacher and when it appears retrograde, the individual has experienced similar teachings before this life. As the years unfold there is an enormous amount of wisdom that steadily pours from the retrograde Saturn.
Of all the planets, it is the most natural and comfortable in its retrograde position, for it affords the individual a kind of second chance to improve on the relationship formed between his soul, the circumstances he was faced with in a past incarnation, and how these were understood. Now under the gentle guidance of Saturn, he is able to put into form all that he has learned int he past.

Retrograde Uranus Karma

On a personal level, retrograde Uranus plays havoc in human relationships. The individual experiences an inner changeability that often makes him hypocritical to himself. his mental and emotional levels often fight each other so that he may know certain things which should lead him in the direction which his knowledge points to, but at the same time, he feels other things which may lead him in an entirely different direction.

He is living a Karma of learning how to express the inner freedom that he brings into this life. And, he must not be bound by trying to make sense at all times to others, or even himself. A free spirit does not always appear to make sense, nor should it. The fact is, that a logical continuance of common sense in an individual is more of a saturnian trait, bound by the rigidity of order, discipline, and the pointing of oneself towards specific goals. But the individual with Retrograde Uranus is not living such a Karma.

In order to explore his inner being, as well as so many other realms of understanding that mankind as a whole has not yet reached, his path is often long and crooked. He darts this way and that seeking the formulas that make the world work. Still, he knows that his quest is a never ending process, for each new discovery leads to still another question. He can be extremely happy so long as others do not try to force him into molds of thinking and behaviour patterns that he has already transcended due to the meaningless roles they play in his perception of the grand scheme.
He has learned how to be independent in former incarnations, and now he must use this independence to rediscover and understand the reason he originally wanted it.

Retrograde Neptune Karma

The individual with Retrograde Neptune is living through the Karma of learning how to sort out that which is real in terms of his ideals, and that which gives the appearance of fulfilling his dreams. He knows what he needs but has difficulty finding it in the external world. Constantly living one dream after another, he often winds up running from imaginary shadows, while chasing unrealisitc fantasies. Still, he must find his ideals int he world of "no form" which has such a strong hold on him. He sometimes makes the mistake of projecting past dreams into present situations. This does not allow him to see the reality of the present clearly. He is highly intuitive, and through the different Retrograde phases he is often able to know the outcome oa situations long before he gets into them. But until he learns how to cope with the subtle flow of Neptunian energy that he feels within himself, he does not easily trust his intuition.

These individuals must learn how to integrate their senses with the ideals and dreams that they bring into this life. Instead of trying to distort perceptions in order to make the present fit the past, there must be an awareness of what parts of the present truly symbolize the parts of the past that are karmically incomplete.

Retrograde Pluto Karma

The individual with retrograde Pluto is living through a Karma of experiencing mass consciousness within himself. He feels the impact of world thought, and is conscious of how it relates to world though throughout the ages. Not always expressing outwardly what he knows, he tends to see other individuals as part of a larger and more inclusive whole rather than on a constant one-to-one basis.
In his personal life, it is far less important what he does whan what he thinks about what he does. Much of the time he lives within is conscience, sifting through the great multitude of feelings and experiences within himself.

The spiritual growth possible with retrograde Pluto is limited only by the individuals conscious mind. He can literally rise above much karma of his entire race if he chooses. Interestingly enough, if he tries to avoid elevating his Karma, he will feel the lower karmas of others around him anyway. Thus, if he chooses to elevate himself, he truly can begin to live the parable of "being in this world but not of it." In order to eventually achieve this he goes through temporary withdrawls during the first half of life, until he learns how to be impersonal with the intensity of the world he senses outside himself, so that he ultimately reaches the point at which he no longer feels it acting within himself.

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Unread 08-21-2005, 11:21 PM
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Hello Radu,

A fascinating article. I often have trouble considering the interpretation of retrograde planets as there are many perspectives as to what they may signify, but I find your view refreshing and informative.

At times I have considered retrograde planets to represent the opposite of their usual attributes, hence Mars becomes weak and idle, Venus cold and frigid, Mercury slow and confused etc. However I have never found this basic interpretation satisfying but this karmic view is inspiring and I will bear your information in mind next time I am examining a retrograde planet in a natal chart.

I have all my planets in direct motion except Chiron and the Lunar Nodes, which unfortunately are not described in the post. I was wondering what the karma of retrograde Nodes might represent, as they are a lot to do with karma anyway, our fate carried over from past lessons and our destiny applied to future goals. As for Chiron, I find interpretation of this baffling little planet challenging enough, without its retrogradation further complicating things.

I would be very curious to know what you think about the karma of a retrograde Chiron, and retrograde Nodes.

Thanks for helping me learn.

Regards,
Draco.
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Unread 08-21-2005, 11:46 PM
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Radhu -thanks for the great post.




Draco-Radhu just posted some work by Martin Schulman.He is the one
to seek out to learn about NN/SN, he does excellent work.
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Unread 08-22-2005, 10:31 AM
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Yes, this is an excerpt typed from a book by Martin Schulman, which I found on some other forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco
I was wondering what the karma of retrograde Nodes might represent, as they are a lot to do with karma anyway, our fate carried over from past lessons and our destiny applied to future goals.
As you know, the Moon's Nodes are in retrograde motion most of the time (about 75% of the time). In this case, being direct would be "abnormal". People born with the Nodes in direct motion seem to find their way in life much faster, they have a more acute awareness of their mission in life.
Some good examples are Dalai Lama or the 17th Karmapa, spirits that incarnate over and over again in order to fulfill a mission.

Draco, you said that you don't have any retrograde planets in your natal chart. Arlene Kramer (http://www.arlenekramer.com/astrology15.asp) says that "The next most common occurrence (7.7%) is the pattern of no retrograde planets. I have found that people with no retrograde planets are unique in their perseverance to attain their goals. McCormick found that "athletes and dancers possess this confirmation in abundance." He also found zero retrograde planets in an unexpectedly high number (36%!) Of the charts of United States Presidents. The road to the Presidency is arduous and perseverance is needed to attain that goal. "

As for Chiron, I'm still in the process of developping an understanding of its influence myself, so I couldn't tell you what it means when it's retrograde. Btw, I've just created the new forum for Chiron talks, as requested.
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Unread 08-23-2005, 02:19 AM
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Thanks for the tip WB.

Thankyou Radu, for another informative post. In fact I had no idea that the lunar nodes are retrograde 75% of the time, as I know little about them. I am learning many new things each day on this site and I consider this forum a valuable resource for knowledge, and better than others I have visited.

I must admit it suprises me that Arlene Kramer says, 'I have found that people with no retrograde planets are unique in their perseverance to attain their goals.', I can see the symbolic sense here. It would, however seem strange in relation to myself, as only the other day I posted a question in the natal section asking, 'Why Am I Drifting Aimlessly?', I suppose Neptune is largely responsible for this, conjunct the MC and GC.

Are charts with no retrogradation unusual?

Oh, and thankyou for the section in which Chiron and the asteroids can be discussed. I suggested it because I had noticed several sections of the site had Chiron discussions going on and he causes much controversy in astrology. I hope to see some interesting debates.

Personally I dont know what to think. I dont know whether to give Chiron the benefit of the doubt or not. It is clear though that a picture seems to be emerging upon what his sphere of influence would be. The karma of retrograde Chiron might reflect sacrifice, martydom, suicide, torture perhaps?

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Draco
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Unread 08-23-2005, 10:12 AM
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As I just checked, I have Chiron retrograde myself. I would say it might mean that I am able to find the best ways of "healing" myself by my own, or it could also mean that there is an inner teacher that I should follow rather than following some other person, as wise as that person might be. I've wondered on several spiritual paths so far but couldn't settle on any of them, just couldn't find any that would fit me entirely, so I've decided to made up my own.
Chiron retrograde could also mean that the person can have a good bioenergetic healing potential.

I don't know why you would expect people to be very aware of Chiron's influence. They are certainly very aware of the influence of the 7 traditional planets. Uranus, the first modern planet to be discovered (1781), has only began to be widely acknowledged since recently, at the beginning of 20th century when the electrical power has been introduced to people's life, and it is fully integrated in our lives only since the computers and Internet era.
Neptune has become of our life only from the start of television, the widespread use of drugs since the sixties and recently the "virtual reality" becomes more integrated in different ways.
I don't think Pluto is well integrated yet in our lives, just partly (for instance in medicine,: CT, MRI, PET scans).
Therefore I wouldn't expect Chiron to be well understood either, maybe only within another several decades...

As for the retrograde nodes, Arlene Kramer syas that the most common occurrence (29.2%) is the pattern of two retrograde planets, then comes the pattern of three retrograde planets (26.7%), then is the pattern of one retrograde planet (18.7%), then comes the pattern of four retrograde planets (12.7%) and only afterwards comes the pattern of no retrograde planets (7,7%).
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Unread 08-25-2005, 11:18 AM
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Re: Karmic astrology

Quote;
Retrograde Venus Karma:

When Venus is Retrograde, the individual is carrying with him a great misunderstanding about love in a past life. Usually there was such intense hurt, that he now cuts himself off from fully experiencing the richness of love because he fears being hurt that much again. Whether male or female, there is much present life difficulty in relationships with the opposite sex.
While trying to live in the present, he endlessly recreates a past memory of love in a former incarnation which still keeps eluding him. He reacts to the present as if he were actually living in his past. In this sense he is fixated at a point in time, and no matter what he does there hardly seems to be forward progress that he says he wants.
In the charts of males, this sometimes indicates Larma related to homosexuality. But even homosexuality has its degrees, ranging from outspoken male who tries politically to sell homosexuality to the world down to the male who would not hear the word in his presence, is marries, but seeks every possible opportunity to avoid females while proving his masculinity. This latter type of male is the kind of individual whose life revolves around his male friends, using the guise of association, clubs, hobbies, and so on as an excuse for his avoidance of women. He can function respectably in society, but he is still a latent homosexual. Less often, we find similar reactions in the female with retrograde Venus.
The most noticeable Karmic pattern is that the individual, whether male or female has a powerful tendency to mistrust most offers of love, feeling that the individuals making these offers usually have ulterior motives.
Unquote.

Now I'm really putting myself on the line...

I have Venus Retro in Aries 15 degrees, 12th house conjunct Mercury.
Its a 'Morning Star' phaze, as opposed to to an 'Evening Star'.
When my Mum went to hospital to have me, Venus was on the horizon, 2 hours later, after the Sun had risen and Venus was blinded by the light, I was born...I also have Taurus rising.
Obviously I have a vested interest in the mythology of Venus and know it well.
I have the three outer planets retro, but they're not so interesting to me.

Ummmmm, Venus is now preparing to go retro, we can all see that in the sky, with Jupiter?

Venus is naturaly the Goddess of Love, Harmony, and Beauty etc.
However, when she gets far enough away from the Sun, (the Father, as she is becoming now) 'she' becomes a 'male' (this is the androgynus side) and gets 'loose' and 'raunchy'.
He drinks and smokes, and acts like a truely arrogant male behaving badly, and mates with the Earth.
Giving birth to the 7 deadly sins... the reversed pentagram.
As he travels closer to the Sun, going retrograde, the Sun (father) gets more and more annoyed with his actions and when he is conjunct (with the father) the Sun, he battles with him.
Venus is not seen for about a week at this time, this is about 16 days into the 40 day cycle. (akin to the proccess of Jesus in the wilderness confronting Mara etc.)
After which time Venus rises as the 'Morning Star', revived as a Goddess, bloodied and gory from the ordeal, yet purified through the proccess of having confronted her sins (our sins).
She is then reborn and named 'Venus Lucifer', or 'Light Bearer'.
Bear in mind that Venus only does this every 18 months. The rearest of the retrogrades.
When she goes retrograde, it's 144 degrees from the last time she did it.
In other words, as she goes retrograde, she carves a five pointed star out of the 360 degrees.
Each time she does it, by virtue of harmonic resonance, the ingrained five pointed star is activated, and we as a 'Humanity' are surrounded by that 'protection', and field of 'initiation'. (a five pointed star)

Those born at the time of it's occurance are slated with the influence of that dynamic. And tend to carry it with them.
Venus retograde has alot to do with 'sacred knowledge and geometry', and people born with it tend to percieve life through a very personal 'soul' lens, more associated with an inward frame of reference than the usual outward 'trendy' norm of the direct Venus, sometimes very misunderstood...

The 'Evening Star' phaze is associated with harsh desires born of the flesh (7 deadly sins...), more calculating, and severe in essence.
The 'Morning Star' phaze reflects the consequences of having dealt with them. It is more spontaneous, and naive. Youthful in essence.
Like a baby after the ordeal of gestation and birth.

Yes, women with this seem to be more in touch with the Masculine side. And men with it, the Feminine.

But as far as being gay is concerned.
Iv'e met more gay people who have Venus Direct than Retro...
It's quite rare, and more related to being introverted regarding love and sexuality.
Not reversed in sexual desire, that is more a Mars/Venus/Uranus/Pluto phenomenon.
I'm definately more in touch with my feminine than most guys, but I love women. I always have. Seriously, I didn't have a 'girls germs' thing, not at all.
In fact that caused me a great deal of pain, because the 'boys' in my hood thought I was gay(!) because I loved girls! (say what?) And would beat me because of that.
Later in my teens, one of the 'boys' wanted to have sex with me...?

There is a deeper side to Retrograde planets than is traditionally known I think. We need to look beyond what WAS said about them, because it holds us all in 'pattern'.
Some of it is relative, but alot of it is very old fashioned and not relevant now. We have evolved.
The energies that govern us now are more freer and expansive than they were back then.
Martin Schulman was great in his time, but...

Mayan societies would initiate boys to men, and girls to women.
They sacrificed Virgins to Volcanoes. And sent armies marching into battle at those times.

The Mayan Calander is based on the movements of Venus Retrograde.
Perhaps that holds more relevance to the energy as it is now,
considering we are appraoching 2012.
ops:
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Unread 09-06-2005, 08:09 AM
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Buai!
Your comment:

Quote:
Now I'm really putting myself on the line...

I have Venus Retro in Aries 15 degrees, 12th house conjunct Mercury.
is interesting! You have Venus, the lower octave of Neptune and ruler of Taurus

--conjunct Mercury (the communicator: messenger, Tarot-bringer)
in Aries! (This is where
Moon's North Node will be for one year,

and some say it's our opportunity to develop intuition, courage, independence (TRUST).

I'll have to read up on the Nodes
Quote:

Draco-Radhu just posted some work by Martin Schulman.He is the one
to seek out to learn about NN/SN, he does excellent work.
(Thanks Waterbearer 50 and Radu!)

And Buai, you've been guiding us (through your messages) to do just that: TRUST!

Radu, your thoughts and posts generate a lot of energy
(AND hundreds of "hits")....you said:

Quote:
Neptune has become of our life only from the start of television, the widespread use of drugs since the sixties and recently

the "virtual reality" becomes more integrated in different ways....

I don't think Pluto is well integrated yet in our lives....

Therefore I wouldn't expect Chiron to be well understood either, maybe only within another several decades...
I, too have 2 retrogrades
Vesta (on GC)
and
Chiron...12H

Thanks for your thoughts about Chiron retrograde,
and I hope we are beginning to integrate more rapidly...
that's why this online Forum is here for
students, right?

To give us help and together we figure it out... my Vesta
and Draco's Neptune/MC and

and transitting Pluto's activation in the GC,

and what Chiron is charged with helping us

heal (with Venus' help): Earth...

& the human illness....

of manipulat-
ability and
heartlessness
and lack of common sense and compassion.....

Buai,
TRUST the power that flows through you, your loving and deeply intuitive/shamanic words (that you've shared with all of us who
come to the Forum, as you counsel many students). It's VENUS and Mercury. It's the power of love....how you discuss Klara's, Draco's, Eklipse's charts...
it's so exciting! I'm not sure about the talk
regarding Venus retrograde 8)

It's clear that in this forum you are c o m m u n i c a t i n g (MERC)
in a loving way (VENUS) that seems
to be preparing us for a shift in perception :P

Venus cj Merc in 12th house:

is it ....(I'm not sure)...is it the place of deepest self-containment (or confinement)?

[With my Venus "burned up" by (i.e. conjunct) my Taurus sun...
my Venus may as well be retrograde in my life....
YET I feel Venus is so powerful!]


The Mayans predicted this coming evolutionary moment

through the space/time markers of their important calendar, and

I read that the Mayans carried a banner into battle -- futile battles
against the Spanish. It was a custom of the Spaniards, fighting on horseback, to have several banner-carriers at the head of the troops,
riders on horseback holding the banners
--tapestries of golden thread and bright colors depicting a Catholic saint...the Mayans perceived that it was

the banner

that held the power!

So, the Mayan banner carried the symbol of
"Santiago Maya" (i.e. Venus)
and here we stand
today, seeing the power
of the Mayans....and

I am happy you are carring the banner now.

I am sure we will see the triumph over death
(which you have discussed so well in other
places in this Forum, Buai!).

So, now we have now come to the
time of our last desperate cry for
evolution....before 2012...and
we are getting help from
e v e r y w h e r e,
from the stars,
ancestors,
Earth.

You said also:

Quote:
The Mayan Calander is based on the movements of Venus Retrograde.
Perhaps that holds more relevance to the energy as it is now,
considering we are appraoching 2012.
...and also:
Quote:
...I have a vested interest in the mythology of Venus and know it well....Venus retograde has alot to do with 'sacred knowledge and geometry', and people born with it tend to percieve life through a very personal 'soul' lens...
Here's a thought:

transitting Chiron and Venus will be conjunct Dec. 15, 2005 at 00 degree
Aquarius.

[See: http://www.mountainastrologer.com/pl...msept604.html]
How is that cj going to affect your chart ? Any aspects?
I'm feeling a new structure coming....Venus
is being transformed....]
Thanks again for this Forum, Radu,
and thanks for the wisdom of all who learn, here, to face our shadows and wait through these moments of fear.

Thanks to young and old for being here, to

hear and listen....about oneness.

This is consciousness-expansion energy coming from the spirit world, into our hearts...and I guess it's beyond
our puny human control.



C1
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Unread 09-06-2005, 11:44 PM
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Wow, what great posts everyone, thanks for the excellent reading.

I have only a miniscule understanding about what Venus really meant to the ancient Ones.......but I think in our world today She is carrying a tremendous load for all humanity. The 'Patriarchy' has run this world for so long - having reduced and controlled the Goddess energies to only Venus as the 'seductress' and the Moon as mainly untrustworthy 'Lunatics and hysterical' females!

BUT......what's it been now, 20 + years that more and more of the 'Goddess' energy and consciousness has been flooding back into our reality? This long ignored and suppressed Goddess Energy and consciousness just keeps manifesting into our reality with such focus and intent it makes me giddy! Think about the influx of Asteroids carrying different female aspects of the Goddess energies. Think about these recent new 'planets'??? Sedna, Xena, and I'm sure there's others I haven't even heard about yet! And last but certainly not least.......the Galactic Center being called the Great Womb etc. I'd bet the Patriarchy is trying to figure out how their going to control this! The massive influx of Pleiadian and Mayan wisdom teachings is mainly Goddess energies also.

And let us not forget all of the more consiously integrated people who house both energies in themselves and are our special teachers and Way Showers. Hundreds of thousands of Initiates and Shamans from past lives incarnate again now helping, guiding, anchoring. I'm going to go one more step with this whole business and remind everyone that there are more females in menopause now than ever before (most of us being the Hippies of the 60's) and this is also adding to this rebalancing and reintroduction of The Goddess over the old Patriarchal rule. Venus finally has help from many different corners!
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Unread 09-07-2005, 05:56 AM
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...

C1

Ummm, I wasn't expecting that.
Thank you for your post, you have certainly given me alot to consider, to say the least.

Firstly, I mean't absolutely no disrepect to Martin Schulmans work, (or to you Radu...) I have ALL of his books, have had for 15 years.
I still think his Nodal book is the best I've read

I don't know if you have read Erin Sullivans work on Retro Planets, I find that to be very current, to me anyway.

In my own loaded "12th house world", I sometimes wonder if I'm a little out of range sometimes, and push the limits too far here on this plane.
Your right, my 12th house sometimes kind of "isolates/confines" me, although I'm flying in here, in my own "space".
Thank you C1 for bringing up my own occassional "trust/doubt" element.

I'm sure I'm not alone here in feeling a vast vulnerability, and yet a great urgency to share "all", so we can become more of who we are becoming, "One".



Lapis!

I know what you mean about the "Patriarchal headspace".
Too true, the "Goddess" has/was being drowned in her own
"Matriachal Divinity" by, I feel, the numerous "Patriarchal Churches", run by men, I mean errr, "priests". (not to be toooo general)

Venus is the Soul of this Planet, Mother Earth, our Home.
I mean, gimme a break!
It's no less than any of us taking our own blood mother for all she's worth.
After her creating "US" through her own womb (from the elements of Mother Earth, >thats blatant "co-creation" in preparation for the arrival of a supposedly "Divine Cosmic Being", "US"!) then raping and selling her to anyone who wants a piece! Say what?

I've been checking out "some" Davinci code stuff...fascinating.

Mary Magdaline a "whore"? Not!
It is being said that she was Jesus' "right hand", and in fact, just as Divine!
but just a "woman"...
Beyond a whole range of other amazing things, She was the archetypal "Venusian Woman", the "Churches" kept her vanquished and oppressed as a "whore" to justify the belittling of the Goddess Herself (women in general) so She could not take Her Divine Feminine Power and WOP the Patriarchs' backside way back into his "appropriate" relationship with God.

I'm no expert on this stuff, but I really feel the time is drawing near when the Goddess shall reassume her respectable and rightful place at the side of God...
...and that whole dynamic is a metaphor for the present unfolding of our own Inner Selves...>2012

It's why Venus IS who/what she is to the wise ancient cultures, who have forseen and prophesised the time ahead in 2012; a major "Time(less) Portal" through which we shall all be reunited with Source, or to be more blunt about it, reunited with "The (chained) Goddess" Within.
After that "The Church" (Temple of God) shall be realised in ALL our Hearts forever, and we (as a collective) will no longer "need" to pay homage to some bloke in a skirt to gain access to that which is our Divine Birthright. (oooopz!)

I feel that EVERY time Venus goes Retro, the Goddess is working Herself out of bondage, through us, to where we are destined to be
And here she goes again, this Xams!

Perhaps (unfortunately...) "Katrina" has had a major part to play, as far as the "World Family(Spirit)" getting it's priorities realigned with our collective "Divine Purpose" is concerned?

Thank you Radu, for making this forum a place where we can really (share) get to the bottom (or top?) of what "IS".


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Unread 09-09-2005, 09:36 AM
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Lapis, I actually feel it is
Chiron energy that inspired me to ask Baui about December 15th!
So, Baui, I think the moon
may be at 144 degrees from the Chiron/Venus conjunction...moon
at 24 degrees Gemini ...so, what does this portend?
December 15th.. with the additional conjunction of
Pluto and the Sun...what do you think?
We are preparing for a shift in perception...
focusing the evolutionary energies from now 'til 2012 in this space will be good,
and, we look in the mirror, Lapis....it's the Goddess returning! Thank you
so much for your post! It has been a long time,
and in our lifetime.... to think Marija Gimbutas actually reached into the earth and lifted Goddess figurines
that had been underground for hundreds of years, since
they were buried in what once was a matriarchal village in
a place now called "Old Europe" or
Prjistina, former Yugoslavia....how wonderful!
Gimbutas is now helping us from the other side.

Ah, to break through and experience re/union of soul consciousness
in the embrace of our Mother, who never abandoned us....

Again....I am thankful for this Forum! I am fortunate to be in communication with students of Astrology who choose to be here
together now!

May we compare notes further in this topic

after I've had a chance to spend time with the charts?

I am grateful for the deeper meanings that come through us.
Being here is as exciting as standing
in the pulsing light of aurora borealis.
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Unread 09-10-2005, 01:42 AM
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Buai,

I share Venus retro with you and read your post with great interest.
I'm Aquarian,Libra AC,Moon,Mars,Neptune there also. I'm hardly a posterboy for a macho man, but I feel exactly like you. I'm in touch with my feminine side but defintely like women. The only part of Schulmans' interpetation I'll agree with is the tendency to mistrust offers of love fearing ulterior motives, and difficulties in relationships,although I believe in my chart there's a few other points that could be the root of that .

You wrote:
Venus retograde has alot to do with 'sacred knowledge and geometry', and people born with it tend to percieve life through a very personal 'soul' lens, more associated with an inward frame of reference than the usual outward 'trendy' norm of the direct Venus, sometimes very misunderstood...
Right on.

C1- transitting Chiron and Venus will be conjunct Dec. 15, 2005 at 00 degree
Aquarius.
Natally I have Venus retro at 8 Aquarius,5H, trine Mars,Moon,Neptune in 1H. Any idea how this conj. will affect me?


Thanks,WB50
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Unread 09-10-2005, 03:45 AM
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Hi,
I feel that I do not have a lot of information about your chart, but does the Neptune in 1H trine Venus in 5H have
a water-y quality that gives you flexibility in relationships (including the
family) and with Mars conjunct Neptune trine Venus....does that Mars energy balance
what could be sort of marshmallow-y?

Transiting Venus conjunct transiting Chiron a few degrees before Venus conjuncts your Venus...with Chiron so close, the healing energy that is accessible makes it possible for each one of us to reach way down into the boggy bottom of our psyche and pull out any poison arrows embedded in there that could be warping our self-esteem, our heart's connection with our "metaphorical senses" (Cosmic Helpers, that we need)....with our Inner Truth, that guides us.

So, the Chiron/Venus cj is connected with heart healing and when transitting Venus conjuncts your natal Venus you get to remove any poison arrows poisoning the source of your authenticity, integrity, heart connection...actually that is what we
all must do,
consciously...in harmony with the s t a r s...

What do you feel this Chiron/Venus conjunction could portend?..I admit I'm responding purely from intuition.

Hopefully helpfully,
C1
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Unread 09-10-2005, 11:08 AM
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Guys,

Venus goes Retro on Dec 25th, at 1Aqu28, and doesn't make it to 8Aqu till next year.
WB50, "watch this space"!
That is more a part of the Chiron Venus cnj than not...it is a prelude to what is coming...
This is initiation time my friends.
WB50, you know what I'm saying I'm sure.
The 5 pointed star is about to be illuminated around our home, Earth.
Chiron qualifies it somewhat, being close at the point of SR.
Governments and Business will feel this, they always do, only now Pluto is also getting close to cnj the GC. So that adds a very potent ingredient to the mix.
Venus goes SD on the day Pluto is cnj the GC on Feb 4th. Ummm :P

This is a huge shift in the way we collectively appreciate the way the world is "Run" (into the dirt).
Things of a material (Saturnian/Capricorn) nature become alot more "real" (obviously limited and oppressive) as far as the collective "Soul" of the human race is concerned.
We slow down enough to smell the roses and figure out who is doing what... wrong, and possibly make loud sounds toward them about it. (?)
Nobody can ignore the energy of "clarity of heart", it pumps pure light!
"Take heed and be purified, or be blinded by it..." either way, it creates a whole lotta changes for the good. In the end.

Chiron? it will come back into play after the fact, May 13th Xact cnj with Venus once again, (6Aqu,WB50?) only this time Pluto is alot closer to the GC 8)
And the Venus/Chiron cnj opposes Saturn at 6Leo...ummm, plus a Luna Eclpise at 24Virgo (squaring Pluto at 26Sag) on March 14th.
Any ideas? :idea:
I'de say thats when the consequenses of Venus Retros' initiation will be ripe, and made obvious to all, no exception.
Lets hope we can "build a bridge and get over it!" ie. our dumb collective "denial-ability".
Then the show begins, yipeee!!!!

I wonder...

ps,WB50, I agree totally with you.
I think "at times" it would be "more ideal" for an author/observer to actually "have" an aspect like that to be able to make a valid comment.
Theory is fine to a point, but nothing can take the place of experience.
It's hard enough describing the taste of an apple, harder if you have NEVER taken a bite...
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Unread 09-10-2005, 09:26 PM
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C1,


Birth data:
9:22 pm,2/6/50, Brooklyn,NY,Kings Co.

I find it flows the other way,Venus helps mellow my Mars conjunct AC.
Your deliniation of the Chiron /Venus conj. is great, 'embedded arrows', very nice intuition. With Venus retro what Buai said about the inner frame of reference really works with your reading. This conj. can be consciously used to pull the arrows from ones heart and do a major healing, ready everybody?
This can work really well with the release of compassion from Neptune in Aquar., campassion for ourselves and others. If you look at my chart I think you will find my 5H, tneptune conjunct and trine everything, with opp. Pluto interesting. I'm also experiencing NN return in the 7H.
C1 your 'purely intuitional' reading is a blessing,thank you.

Buai-You have a nice,clear way of expressing yourself with words,interesting position of mercury peerhaps? I like that apple metaphor.
I feel that we can all learn the most from each other if we observe and report our experiences,sharing and comparing what each of us finds real.

WB50
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Unread 09-11-2005, 08:09 AM
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C1&WB50

I agree totally.

If we all share what we know to be true, together, hopefully we can illustrate the "whole".

I hope "collectively", we can extract the "poison arrows" from planet Earth, after all, Venus is the "Soul of the Earth", and "We" are responsible, as the inhabitance on Earth, for any "poison arrows" being imbedded in her.(?)

Chiron is now impacting Governments and global businesses - generally, they seem to be having a major neg impact on the whole Planet.
Those two have a broader and more profound impact on us all than they used to.
"Katrina" is one example, obviously a consequence of the "Global Warming" that doesnt exsist? "say what?" :shock:

That type of denial is what is due to be revised, when Venus goes Retro she turns everyones values structure upside down, and brings our hearts to a "soul reference" point that enables us all to "see" what is real beyond our personal agendas.
Lets hope it doesn't take for more "Katrinas'" to come to town till someone listens and takes action...
As Venus does her thing, I think Chirons findings will be brought to light and beg to be healed. (by "the people")

Then as Chiron travels further into Aquarius, "the people" will really begin to stirr the pot, and demand that things occur to establish and ground the needed changes.
Saturn opposing Chiron early next year, is like a "plank" being built, off the edge of a ship in open ocean. I wonder who will walk it?
Feels like pulling Frankensteins teeth!! :mrgreen:

Don't forget Tr Pluto cnj the GC at the same time...

Of course for you WB50, it's becoming a bit more personal, looks like you are a little closer to the "distribution centre", Venus Retro is cnj the Sun at 23Cap on Jan 14th...your Mercury?
And as Chiron gets closer to your Venus, I think it will build a healing bridge from your heart to the people and plans you are most connected to, and your family. Then on to your 5th Jupiter/Sun... Do you get along with Pluto well?
(Tr Neptune to your Jupiter/Sun at the same time as all that looks like fun, should be quite a big shift for you, to say the least. Good for you!)

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Unread 09-12-2005, 03:41 AM
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Such excellent thoughts everyone. Its so obvious that 'IT's' working

I hope that with this Chiron and Venus conjunction in Aquarius humanity will begin to really deal n' heal this 'wounded' planet and the collective global 'wounded' psyche. The long term damage done by the patriarchal rule is becoming more and more obvious to the masses each day now. I think the conjunctions between these 2 will begin the serious deep inner healings and the conscious reintegration of the Goddess polarity back into reality. Isn't that what needs to be dealt with and 'healed', the/our other half?

Was it just last year (or the year before?) that The Warrior, Mars, made its closest pass to earth in something like nearly 70,000 years? And now Venus and Chiron at 0 degrees Aquarius? Wow......what's the Sabian for this? It looks to me like these archetypes just keep parading past us so we can deal n' heal with all of these ancient issues prior to 2012. The '****' won't fit in The Light after all .
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Unread 09-12-2005, 04:11 AM
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Lapis

...The Sabian Symbol for that is, according to Dane Rudhyar, "An old Adobe Mission in California"

Keynote = "The power inherent in all great human works to endure far beyond the workers' life spans"

"It speaks to us of the THE CONCRETIZATION OF AN IDEAL"

The works and spirit of the Spanish priests who directed the building of the California missions have had a lasting influence on the developement of this land; these remain as a monument to the men who were able to make their mark upon this alien environment. While the Zodiacal sign Capricorn begins with a symbol of socio-political power, Aquarius at it's start presents a more spiritualized and idealic or creative picture of the social forces at work. Moreover, it stresses the enduring character of human achievments ensouled by a great vision. At least within the frame of reference of our Western civilisation, the symbol speaks of the projection of a noble ideal into concrete forms of beauty and significance, thus of the radiation of a "civilizing" power into an institution offering to primitive men the opportunity to reach a higher, more organized and productive, level of activity...
Unquote

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Unread 09-12-2005, 06:29 AM
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||Hola!
Lapis, in Southern California, ready for Venus/Chiron's "Mission",
Baui in OZ , WB50 in PA, Radu and 300 visitors to this web forum
including me...I feel depths of
gratitude!

Here's where I'm coming from at the moment 8)

Transitting Mars is conjunct my natal Venus at 20 Taurus
and transitting Venus entering Scorpio is getting ready to
oppose my natal Mars at 4 Taurus...and transitting Mars just left
a
conjunction with my natal Mars, and the moon is 27 Sagittarius
...GC, anyone?

The coming Chiron/Venus conjunctionS
(12/15/05 at 00 Aquarius and again 5/13/06 at 6 Aquarius...thanks, Baui) refuse to be ignored.

I just picked up an interview with Eckhart Tolle, who says:
(bear with me a second, please, as I take a long loop in the Chiron/Venus orbit):
Quote:
[Explaining his concept of the "pain body"]
Every human being carries, lodged in the body, an energy field that
I call the pain body: the residue of past emotional pain suffered in
one's own life-time and the pain that is in the collective psyche of
humanity. It's obvious if you look at the history of humanity--
the vast amount of violence and pain that humans have generated
for each other....Anyone who is born as a human ont his planet is
born with a considerable amount of pain already. Then, starting
in one's childhood, it gets added too--and emotional pain that is
experienced doesn't just disappear, it leaves a residue.
It's that residue of past pain carried by the human being
that I call the pain-body.
The strange thing is that the pain-body needs
periodically to experience further emotional pain. For some, this is
a quite dramatic discovery: that one carries within oneself
the need for pain, drama, or conflict.
It feeds on one's thoughts, he says, and then he says:
Quote:
We have to see, in ourselves...things that...[one] could
call undesirable or bad. But when it arises, see it and be amazed.
This becomes a necessity on the planet now, because this old consciousness is inflicting so much suffering, not
just on humanity but on other life forms. The aliveness
and divine essence in every life form is being obscured
by thought and conceptualization.
Alright...we're down to the last thing in Pandora's box...hope.

Nope...we're dealing with the real discussion, which (I think Liz Greene says)...."The real discussion is only one's internal one"--

or not. It could be about l i s t e n i n g.

I've got my work cut out for me. I love the way Mars roared
red in the night sky at winter solstice moons in 2003 and now,
returning asks for a commitment from me to act...

and we DO have that grand cross to work with here, which
is our "banner" -- we use the energy of squares and focus
on the oppositions to enhance the energy of Mars, Jupiter,
Saturn, Neptune...in the fixed signs.

(It's cool that the
second third of each season
is a fixed sign...we're with Earth...
and it's at the second third of each season that
the qualities of each season
are stabilized and most perfectly represented.)

Help us! It's global warming...we need to stabilize here.

Fixed signs have the function of preserving and sustaining...

fulfilling activity in a daily, predictable and reliable manner

throughout the seasons...yet, we must remember to

allow change (especially "conservative" Taurus).

Robert Hand (in his book Horoscope Symbols) pp. 125-26
says:
Quote:
In oppositions, there's usually one energy
that's external and one that's seeming to be coming from within
the Self, and the square can seem like either inner-inner
resistance, or an inner-outer resistance, or an outer-outer
resistance...
Grand Crosses...are HIGH=ENERGY aspects
and require F O C U S. One does not want the energies
to take control...There's tremendous intensity of
energy just below the surface, waiting to be released,
usually powerfully constricted...
and powerful when released.

Baui took us to a deep place, revealing his Venus retrograde...

I will walk the plank now and reveal my wound:

Impending 8th House (Leo) Second Saturn Return:

Intolerance is an issue. Yet, "One is honest enough with herself
to understand that there's something within herself that needs development."

It's a battleground: death of individual awareness and birth
of mutual awareness.

Saturn in 8th house is watery for me and I must move
forward from the point of crisis and integrate my own
experience into the group of which I'm a member,
and it's a struggle of ancient proportions...necessitating dissolving
and synthesizing (like a moth growing out of the juices
in a cocoon).

Liz Greene says the 8th House is about emotional exchange...
death and rebirth of instincts as Purified Desire, as aspiration...

Quote:
There's a realization of some vital area of her
own feeling nature which must be recognized, examined and
purified. The "being let down emotionally" thing...was a
pattern placement when her father died [when I was 12]
...the feeling of emotional isolation becoming loneliness is
a deep emotional scar and a slow-healing wound.
The lesson is
that there is no one else who heals her, she must transform
herself. The mastery of the unconscious, [becoming the
observer and stopping my ego-mind] must come from
within if she is to realize deep, life-giving, healing
powers for healing herself...and others.
AND, guess what the "wound" is really about?

ISIS's wound. I can't help ruthlessly imposing my will; it's due
to feelings of powerlessness, a difficult side effect of my natal
Mars square Saturn: I'm afraid someone else will impose
her -- or his -- will on me and control me, and I must
fight back because my self-respect is at stake.

Liz:
Quote:
These aspects are hard to deal with because of the sexual
roles patriarchal societies have imposed for e o n s.
I am focusing on the Chiron/Venus conjunctions preceding
Saturn return as offering me an opportunity for healing
so I'll get to a deeper
understanding
of the nature of the Correct (and powerful) use of Will...

The Great Mutation Cycle of the Mayans involves Saturn and
Jupiter.

JUPITER squares SATURN on December 17, 2005 and January 28, 2006.

There was a Saturn/Jupiter conjunction in 2000 and
now there's a square (Saturn in fixed fire and Jupiter
in fixed water).

Saturn is the planet of material reality and
squares are the aspects of material reality.

The Mayans talked about "The Great Mutation Cycle"
and somehow it's revealed also in the myth of
Saturn (Cronos= Time, chronology) and
Jupiter (Neptune's sibling and Saturn's child).

Saturn/Cronos was afraid of his kids, so he was going
to eat them (Cronos had killed his own dad, Uranus,
so I guess that's why he wanted to take pre-emptive
action against his kids).

Jupiter was saved because a big stone was fed to Saturn/Cronos, and
Jupiter was hidden in a cave.

Then Saturn/Cronos disgorged all the other kids and Jupiter
seized control and locked Saturn/Cronos in Tartarus--the
darkest regions of the underworld (controlled by Pluto)
where he "continues to howl, because he's immortal."

So...this coming square is an opportunity. Jupiter could learn
from Saturn (Robert Hand's analysis, here):

Saturn could teach Jupiter the art of l i s t e n i n g,

for imagination anad ideals have no purpose if they
can't be demonstrated and utilized in the mundane world
for the growth or evolution of the group...

and Saturn could learn from Jupiter...t o l e r a n c e,

and the knowledge that the perceptual base of
intuition is also valid!

So, it's possible to shift perception now...

with Neptune (sorry...Neptune also refers to the "rose colored" glasses
of propoganda and denial that keep us from seeing the truth until
it rears up and knocks on the head)...so

with Neptune in Aquarius, we are stretched to identify with the whole
in "e q u a l i t y" lwhich is not to say we're all clones....no, it's more
that the homo-centric view has to go. We're like dust, star dust...and
everything is everything...|

The idea that's emerging is that we are beginning to discover (...Mountain Astrologer magazine...recent issue, but I forget who is the author of
the article I'm referring to here)...the meaning of individuality
within group consciousness.

The collective psyche is forming
new structures, new symbols, new values.

Aquarius is the sign of change...

this change will take some time to stabilize....

but soon we won't be labeled "hippie crazies"
or Neurotic or whatever....

but the way we transform is to begin by exploring
our shadows, the aspect of our psyches symbolized
by Saturn...because we're healing

...individuals,
and the world....
collectively we are concerned with the fate of the world."

[I will provide the author's name in my next post.]

Well, what do you think?
I'd personally like to spend
a group moment examing anyone's chart together
who cares to get so involved....maybe a new topic
("group focus on a chart")
:idea:

Rather long post...this research...but we are heading
for some rapids with the activation of Venus penta...hey?
C1
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  #20  
Unread 09-16-2005, 11:53 PM
Buai Buai is offline
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Hi C1

Nice post...

I'm starting to get lost in all the different threads on the forum, and I forgot to get back to your comments, not that I have anything to say, but, "I hear you".

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  #21  
Unread 09-17-2005, 10:49 AM
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Waterbearer50 Waterbearer50 is offline
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Group focus on a chart

C1,

Great post! I'd like to volunteer for the group focus because I believe my chart will illustrate the meaning of individuality within group consciousness you refer to.

2/6/50 9:22P.M.
Brooklyn,NY Kings Co.

You'll see Sun,Aquar.5H opp.Pluto,LEo 11H- The opposing energies of The Humanitarian vs. The Leader, the urge to be and to create vs. the urge for evolutionary growth. Group vs. individual.

Buai,

You made reference to this in one of your posts here,
Quote,

Of course for you WB50, it's becoming a bit more personal, looks like you are a little closer to the "distribution centre", Venus Retro is cnj the Sun at 23Cap on Jan 14th...your Mercury?
And as Chiron gets closer to your Venus, I think it will build a healing bridge from your heart to the people and plans you are most connected to, and your family. Then on to your 5th Jupiter/Sun... Do you get along with Pluto well?
(Tr Neptune to your Jupiter/Sun at the same time as all that looks like fun, should be quite a big shift for you, to say the least. Good for you!)

Like you I also can forget or don't have the time to respond.
I've learned to live with Pluto, I would'nt describe it as 'well'. I use the
balancing ability of my Libra AC for compromise and cooperation between these two powerful forces. I've avoided groups all my life but feel now is the time to jump in and contribute what I can.

Peace to all,
WB50
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  #22  
Unread 09-18-2005, 12:37 AM
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C1,

No rest for the weary right? Great post thanks. I too have Saturn in 8 along with some others so I can relate. Trying to make it to my 2nd Saturn Return!

"...individuality within group consciousness." Sounds very Aquarius/Leo axis energies, consciousness and reality. It also is very much like what the higher dimensions above this 3D one are like all the time. Hard earned individuality within the whole dimensional group consciousness. One is one but also one is all and all can be One.

I believe that most of us are 'doing' so much more through all of the transits today and we probably will right up to 2012 if needed. What I mean is that I feel we're 'cleaning up' tons and tons of karma or unresolved issues from today all the way back through this last long cycle. Which cycle? I don't know......is it just the past 26,000 cycle or does this reach out farther? I think that it does. One Galactic rotation or 'Return' if you will takes 225 million years! This will be coinciding with 2012 as will a few other great cycles all coming to completion at the same time.

Because of all this I feel that the transiting planets are carrying so much more than 'normal' to help us finish up our 'business' fast. It sometimes feels like I won't survive this process but that's probably a fairly normal feeling. I think I'm rambling and way off thread topic......sorry, please carry on all.
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  #23  
Unread 09-18-2005, 11:00 PM
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Hello All

Now youíre frightening me! There are far too many coincidences on this site.

I am a complete beginner, (only discovering Astrology after a copy of Parkers fell on me in the book shop), so this thread is way beyond my capabilities really, but itís of immense interest. A few of the placements jumped out at me:

My SN is direct at 29 59 Capricorn
My Sun is at 23 Cap (í63, by the way Ė you got the date already!)

With Retro Merc at 6 Aqu conj Sat at 11 Aqu

Thatís too many coincidences for my liking

Plus, Venus is at 6 Sag and Chir is at 7 Pisc.



So, is the feeling of impending ???? to do with Uranus prodding natal Jup and Chir and Neptune soon to nudge Saturn again, or is it something else?

How am I likely to feel these alignments? Point me in the right direction, please.

Thanks

hel
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  #24  
Unread 09-19-2005, 06:26 AM
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Hel141,
Hi!
Let's see....what day were you born in 1963 with the Sun at 23 degrees Capricorn?

I'm such a beginner with other people's charts


It's just such an exciting time to be "comparing notes" here at Radu's astrology forum...welcome!

And like Lapis, our friend, said somewhere....in some other topic point on this forum...transits are doing a hel' of lot more than usual now
as we approach 2012....

all together now.....

My point being, it's interesting, isn't it, that we were discussing the
coming Venus/Sun conjunction on Jan. 14th.....is it exactly conjunct
your natal Sun? (...and WB50's natal Mercury?)

Cool
8)

What other transits are coming up for you besides that Chiron/Venus conjunction at your natal Mercury and close to your natal Saturn on May 13, 2006?

CU
C1
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Unread 09-19-2005, 06:33 AM
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<ops:>
Lapis,
I'm in a whirlpool, or else how could I have missed
that your post about the transits....is right
here ((not *somewhere else*!))

Thanks....I, too, believe we're here, we made
it, we're taking responsibility 'n it's
awesome. Thanks for the articles you posted, too,
and for your spiritual, astro-psychic/evolutionary
conversations.

C1
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