Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Other Astrology

Other Astrology Here, you can discuss anything else astrological that doesn't belong in the other boards. Includes medical astrology, mundane astrology, parts, sports astrology, research and development, degree symbols, fixed stars, asteroids, symbols systems, karma, and Aquarian astrology.


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 07-16-2018, 02:33 AM
iauiugu iauiugu is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 30
Seeking participants in delineating a new take on Ceres

For the past few years I've been thinking on a new interpretation for Ceres that's more divorced from the Descent myth than prevailing, post-Demetra George interpretations


Given it's the proto-planetary core of the asteroid belt and is about a third of the belt, I see it as far more relevant than anything else in the belt, and potentially as relevant as Pluto as a fellow minor planet



I see it relating to one's tastes, the conventions one performs to signal a particular in-group identity. It's how one enculturates a certain attitude that is communicated through subtext opposed to Mercurial explicits, and unlike the desire for interpersonal connection with Venus it relates to one's brand. It is the archetype of domestication and the garden, artifice that plays with our senses. I see it as a co-ruler of Taurus. I see it in polarity with Pluto as relating to what is repressed and hidden by culture and society. Ceres is the bread and butter that sustains the norm, Pluto is the decay and powers that erupt and re-fertilize the surface Ceres operates on


with this in mind I am looking for anyone interested in seeing how my interpretation of Ceres may be delineated in your chart by sign, house, and aspects.


Last edited by iauiugu; 07-16-2018 at 02:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to iauiugu For This Useful Post:
MiaMiaMia (07-31-2018)
  #2  
Unread 07-30-2018, 10:58 PM
aldebaran aldebaran is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 212
Re: Seeking participants in delineating a new take on Ceres

I would be interested.

I have Ceres in conjunction with Sun 0'20. Square with Moon 0'01.

It's a planet I would really want to decipher better.
__________________
A lua ť sempre a lua, ů, meu amor, e tanta! Mesmo se a passar por Shravana...
http://lunacanam.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread 07-31-2018, 12:14 AM
MiaMiaMia MiaMiaMia is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 222
Re: Seeking participants in delineating a new take on Ceres

I would be interested too! I agree on its connection to Taurus, nurture etc.

My ceres is on my ASC in LEO.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 07-31-2018, 04:40 AM
waybread's Avatar
waybread waybread is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: A class M planet near you
Posts: 14,283
Re: Seeking participants in delineating a new take on Ceres

Sorry, iauiugu, but could you explain your thoughts about Ceres in more detail-- in plain English? I'm having trouble following you. I get the gardening part.

Several years ago I spent a lot of time trying to fathom Ceres, as I thought it had to be more than the junior moon or smothering mother it was made out to be.

In ancient times, Ceres (Greek Demeter) was associated with the constellation Virgo, so I spent a lot of time looking at that, but remained unconvinced that this worked in chart interpretation. However, Ceres is prominent in the charts of a few domestic divas, like Martha Stewart.

Part of the problem is that a sign ruler in astrology has to be more than a simple affinity. A sign ruler has real work to do in a horoscope as a house cusp and sign ruler. A domiciled planet is supposedly extra-strong, so we would need to see if that is the case.

While Taurus is another option, part of the problem here is that Venus, IMO, is a really misunderstood planet. If you read the myth of Venus and Adonis, and see how if maps onto the agricultural seasons, you get the idea. Anciently, the Babylonians associated their prototype of Venus, the goddess Inanna, with Taurus. Then if we probe the mythology, Libra is also a reasonable candidate for Ceres, as mythological Ceres was known as the law-giver, but Venus was not.

I realize that many astrologers are not interested in mythology, but truly, for all of our planetary associations today-- and going back to the times when the Sumerians believed that the planets were gods-- mythology has been central to planets' (and the early-discovered asteroids') meanings.

What I find interesting in your interpretation, so far as I understand it, is that ancient societies of the cradles of astrology believed that order in society was a major good. Disorder was bad. As law-giver Ceres represented that sense of how people were to fit into social norms.

In her primary myth (Demeter, the story of Persephone/Proserpine) is distraught at the loss of her daughter, but her big quarrel is with Jupiter. As king of the gods Jupiter could order Pluto (Hades) to release Persephone but chose not to. But more to the point: as mother of Persephone, Ceres' normed parental rights were trampled upon by her daughter's abduction.

I've attached what I call my "good enough" chart. I've changed a few particulars to protect my identity, but not basic the structure and position of Ceres at 17 degrees Leo.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg W's close-enough chart 3.jpg (44.8 KB, 11 views)
__________________
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And weíll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.

Last edited by waybread; 07-31-2018 at 04:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to waybread For This Useful Post:
GemwDepth (02-25-2019), MiaMiaMia (08-01-2018)
  #5  
Unread 08-03-2018, 03:35 PM
CapAquaPis's Avatar
CapAquaPis CapAquaPis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: ...in the sidereal astrological system.
Posts: 2,092
Re: Seeking participants in delineating a new take on Ceres

3 signs might be influenced by the planet-like asteroid Ceres: Taurus, Cancer and Virgo - they all represent feminine, motherly and fertility. I agree with the first poster, then I realize Ceres can hold significance in Capricorn: the sign of parents, fathers and grand-relatives. I tend to believe Eris co-rules Gemini, Leo and Libra, but I've read Eris has more to do with my sign Aquarius - a gender-bending sign - a powerful goddess figure in charge of a masculine nature sign.
__________________
or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 08-19-2018, 06:43 AM
iauiugu iauiugu is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 30
Re: Seeking participants in delineating a new take on Ceres

Quote:
Originally Posted by aldebaran View Post
I would be interested.

I have Ceres in conjunction with Sun 0'20. Square with Moon 0'01.

It's a planet I would really want to decipher better.

What signs/houses are they in?


With such a tight conjunction with the Sun I'd figure you would be particularly skilled at cultivating a demeanor highly aligned to your solar goals and sense of self. You would be gifted at ingratiating yourself with others of groups you identify with and being an exemplar member of that group. You'd be on the pulse of what is current for them, knowing the key language or behaviors that others come to know the standard by.



With it as part of your sun-moon square it would contribute to the tension experienced in your solar self with your sensitive needs in whatever quality or realm of life there's the butting of heads.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 08-19-2018, 06:47 AM
iauiugu iauiugu is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 30
Re: Seeking participants in delineating a new take on Ceres

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiaMiaMia View Post
I would be interested too! I agree on its connection to Taurus, nurture etc.

My ceres is on my ASC in LEO.

Hmm I'd guess you naturally come off to others as an exemplar of the groups and interests you identify with. You tend to be seen as an influencer in the way you set the tone for the circles you run in. Maybe?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 08-19-2018, 07:17 AM
iauiugu iauiugu is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 30
Re: Seeking participants in delineating a new take on Ceres

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Sorry, iauiugu, but could you explain your thoughts about Ceres in more detail-- in plain English? I'm having trouble following you. I get the gardening part.

Haha I can try to do it better but I am still trying to grasp it. My ideas are borrowed from non-astrological and non-mythological fields so I am trying to not pull more than I should from these sources. Which is why applying my ideas is key


Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Part of the problem is that a sign ruler in astrology has to be more than a simple affinity. A sign ruler has real work to do in a horoscope as a house cusp and sign ruler. A domiciled planet is supposedly extra-strong, so we would need to see if that is the case.

good point! i haven't met another with ceres in taurus; it's in virgo near my sun, and i find myself pretty heady and overly analytical when it comes to what i think Ceres represents, which is more of an effortless ingratiating with cultural groups. I try really hard to be perfect, and often miss the beat


Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
While Taurus is another option, part of the problem here is that Venus, IMO, is a really misunderstood planet. If you read the myth of Venus and Adonis, and see how if maps onto the agricultural seasons, you get the idea. Anciently, the Babylonians associated their prototype of Venus, the goddess Inanna, with Taurus. Then if we probe the mythology, Libra is also a reasonable candidate for Ceres, as mythological Ceres was known as the law-giver, but Venus was not.



I realize that many astrologers are not interested in mythology, but truly, for all of our planetary associations today-- and going back to the times when the Sumerians believed that the planets were gods-- mythology has been central to planets' (and the early-discovered asteroids') meanings.

Venus is associated with Inanna, but her antagonist sister in the Descent myth is classically associated with Mars. I see this a dual case of co-rulers of signs and archetypes who have only recently differentiated into venus-ceres and mars-pluto. i've also ready innana described as more extroverted and goal-oriented than venus. she wants to conquer every challenge life can offer, from winning bounty to raising children. she desires a full sensuous experience of life, dresses in the finest costumes to signal her mastery as she goes into the underworld to face the final Forbidden Challenge.


Also I haven't found the source again but I once read Ceres was the patron god of common man in Rome, associated with common law that otherwise hadn't existed for non-nobles before.



While I heard for the first long part of astrology's modern revival myth wasn't held in high regard, from my vantage it seems like it is now pretty commonly leaned on in most astrological texts and attempts to interpret minor planets and asteroids, I find. The first push back on this I found was Richard Tarnas saying that the god Uranus and the planetary archetype have little in common (leading to his suggestion prometheus is a better fit), as neptune the jealous earthquaker and the spiritual, escapist neptune of modern interpretation are far removed



Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
What I find interesting in your interpretation, so far as I understand it, is that ancient societies of the cradles of astrology believed that order in society was a major good. Disorder was bad. As law-giver Ceres represented that sense of how people were to fit into social norms.

In her primary myth (Demeter, the story of Persephone/Proserpine) is distraught at the loss of her daughter, but her big quarrel is with Jupiter. As king of the gods Jupiter could order Pluto (Hades) to release Persephone but chose not to. But more to the point: as mother of Persephone, Ceres' normed parental rights were trampled upon by her daughter's abduction.

Yes; I see Ceres as a compliment to the physical, reactionary laws of limits of Saturn, as Ceres embodied the social limits that Pluto is outside of



Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
I've attached what I call my "good enough" chart. I've changed a few particulars to protect my identity, but not basic the structure and position of Ceres at 17 degrees Leo.

to start i find it kinda funny the three offers of interpretation so far are all leo/sun conjunct charts so I feel like I can't say too many different things


I'd guess you tend to shine in a leo way when cultivating your in-group behaviors, being an influencer by example, knowing the subtle cues to get others following your lead in organizations and collectives you immerse yourself within. With its conjunction with Pluto you'd also be extra charismatic in your ability to tap into others, bordering on manipulative in your grasp of your shared milieu beyond what they see. With your moon in the same house and sign you might find some emotional recuperation in your involvement with others and cultivating this powerful persona


but then this is in opposition to how you express yourself creatively towards your individual goals, communicate your mentality and sincerely connect to others, in a more emotionally detached and unconventional way. given you were born at night i'd assume you identify more with your moon and shining among and for others


mmmmmm i should probably do more basic chart reading before diving into experimental takes. i am still very new to this. thanks for sharing your perspective and time
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to iauiugu For This Useful Post:
BlackLioness87 (02-24-2019)
  #9  
Unread 08-19-2018, 07:44 AM
conspiracy theorist's Avatar
conspiracy theorist conspiracy theorist is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: a pit
Posts: 14,527
Re: Seeking participants in delineating a new take on Ceres

Quote:
Originally Posted by iauiugu View Post
I see it relating to one's tastes, the conventions one performs to signal a particular in-group identity. It's how one enculturates a certain attitude that is communicated through subtext opposed to Mercurial explicits, and unlike the desire for interpersonal connection with Venus it relates to one's brand. It is the archetype of domestication and the garden, artifice that plays with our senses. I see it as a co-ruler of Taurus. I see it in polarity with Pluto as relating to what is repressed and hidden by culture and society. Ceres is the bread and butter that sustains the norm, Pluto is the decay and powers that erupt and re-fertilize the surface Ceres operates on
In other words, your interpretation of Ceres is - the rituals and conventions of a culture that signals your allegiance to said culture? A traditional astrologer's exclusive use of the traditional planets which stops at Saturn would be an example of Ceres' function, as you've stated it? Or would Ceres be more like a particular inflection of speech that automatically indicates that one is apart of a community - an unconscious convention?

Since we're exploring, what is your opinion on the Major Arcana card The Heirophant with its attribution to the sign Taurus with this new interpretation of Ceres?
__________________
We have silent dogs.

Last edited by conspiracy theorist; 08-19-2018 at 07:49 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread 08-19-2018, 08:21 AM
iauiugu iauiugu is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 30
Re: Seeking participants in delineating a new take on Ceres

Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
In other words, your interpretation of Ceres is - the rituals and conventions of a culture that signals your allegiance to said culture? A traditional astrologer's exclusive use of the traditional planets which stops at Saturn would be an example of Ceres' function, as you've stated it? Or would Ceres be more like a particular inflection of speech that automatically indicates that one is apart of a community - an unconscious convention?

Since we're exploring, what is your opinion on the Major Arcana card The Heirophant with its attribution to the sign Taurus with this new interpretation of Ceres?

the difference i see between ceres and saturn is the difference of convention and tradition. convention and taste are fickle, relatively superficial; idolizing full-bodied women and rugged men at one time, androgynous women and hairless men at others. the tradition of saturn speaks of boundaries whose crossing would upset the very foundation of civilization. crossing cererian boundaries makes you a weirdo, fringe, abnormal. lesser plutonic stuff. it's more benign. similarly ceres involves an immersing within a culture and being one with it, not like the moon in being carried by the collective, but in a choosing to engage and cultivate a compelling persona. domesticating yourself into the norm



i'm not versed in tarot at all. in doing some reading online i kinda see a connection. one thing i read on the card suggests one commits to a group and learn to see it as an insider, to be initiated into its codes and signals and how it performs its identity. sounds like how i understand ceres more than how i understand taurus. the use of the word tradition with the card seems too strong to me, if its about being an insider. following tradition is about becoming a pillar between the past and the present, which ceres isn't about. ceres is more about a maximal experience of the present in all it has to offer



i see ceres as a blend of associations otherwise connected to venus (sensuous indulgence), the moon (being a part of a collective), and saturn (recognizing boundaries), and this kinda follows that for me
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Unread 08-21-2018, 03:34 AM
conspiracy theorist's Avatar
conspiracy theorist conspiracy theorist is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: a pit
Posts: 14,527
Re: Seeking participants in delineating a new take on Ceres

Alright, you've clarified your position some more for me, thank you.

But I have another question, if Ceres is just an amalgam of Venus, Moon and Saturn, what is Ceres' unique contribution to a natal reading? A lesser taboo and voluntary immersion into a culture is enough to add this data point to the existing astrological points?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to conspiracy theorist For This Useful Post:
waybread (08-21-2018)
  #12  
Unread 08-25-2018, 05:18 PM
iauiugu iauiugu is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
Alright, you've clarified your position some more for me, thank you.

But I have another question, if Ceres is just an amalgam of Venus, Moon and Saturn, what is Ceres' unique contribution to a natal reading? A lesser taboo and voluntary immersion into a culture is enough to add this data point to the existing astrological points?
Itís a blend how Pluto could be said to be blended Marsís power and aggression, Uranusís deviance, Solar essence; itís comparable but not the same. Ceres isnít emotional or needy like the moon, heavy and depressed like Saturn, or authentically connecting with others like Venus

Iím trying to work out if Ceres even means what I am proposing, but itís not a lesser taboo but the opposite in cultivating oneís image as a member of oneís culture or status. Thereís nothing that really overlaps it already and I consider it an important and sometimes overlooked part of the human condition

Ceres was discovered around the time (turn of the 19th century) the concept of little-c culture emerged, when before there was just elite Culture. With anthropology emerged the idea the world wasnít a simple hierarchy of a cultured elite to savages, but one in which every group of people lives in one (or more, as globalization spreads) culture.

With a Virgo Ceres myself I see enculturation as something where the details really matter to make one come off normal. I see it as a construct Iíve had to analyze to get and I focus on having material possessions and conveying my values to align to the cultures I affiliate with.

To be honest I feel like most astrologers have an adverse or avoidant relationship with the idea of culture in its relationship with convention, given astrology is so off the map within cultures of the new age. So I feel like I have an uphill battle in that way maybe.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread 08-26-2018, 05:37 AM
conspiracy theorist's Avatar
conspiracy theorist conspiracy theorist is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: a pit
Posts: 14,527
Re: Seeking participants in delineating a new take on Ceres

Quote:
Originally Posted by iauiugu View Post
Itís a blend how Pluto could be said to be blended Marsís power and aggression, Uranusís deviance, Solar essence; itís comparable but not the same. Ceres isnít emotional or needy like the moon, heavy and depressed like Saturn, or authentically connecting with others like Venus

Iím trying to work out if Ceres even means what I am proposing, but itís not a lesser taboo but the opposite in cultivating oneís image as a member of oneís culture or status. Thereís nothing that really overlaps it already and I consider it an important and sometimes overlooked part of the human condition
Now, I notice you used Pluto's supposedly combined energy signature as a comparison to how you view Ceres' astrological outflow. There is a criticism that certain sects of astrologers have of the more recent additions to the astrological planets - the fact that they can be divisible by other planetary signatures is an argument against them being on the same level as the more "fundamental" planets. For example - those of more ancient persuasion could look at the significations of Uranus and put all of its traits under the umbrella of the Sun, Mars and Mercury - for Neptune you could place its significations under Venus, Moon and Jupiter - with Pluto, the ruler-ships can fall under Mars, Saturn, Sun and Mercury. But one can't do the same to the planets from Sun to Saturn, there are "indivisible" and no combination of these planets could ever convincingly amount to a singular planet in the suite.

On the other hand, wouldn't the mixture of Saturn, Moon and Venus cancel out the heavy depressive Saturn quality, the neediness and over-emotionalism of the Moon and the authentic connecting of Venus through the combination of all 3? Wasn't that the point of using those 3 in tandem in the first place?

If Ceres is, as you say, the cultivating of one's image as a member of one's culture and status, what of Jupiter, who's has dominion over status, culture, what is popular/populist and success in public life? Being the paragon of a culture is very much under Jupiter's auspices, what do you think about Jupiter in this regard? Check out this link, and what it says about Jupiter - the issue of insignias and branding is covered under what Jupiter is said to represent: https://redirect.viglink.com/?format...mp%3Bo%3DOneUp

Quote:
Originally Posted by iauiugu View Post
Ceres was discovered around the time (turn of the 19th century) the concept of little-c culture emerged, when before there was just elite Culture. With anthropology emerged the idea the world wasnít a simple hierarchy of a cultured elite to savages, but one in which every group of people lives in one (or more, as globalization spreads) culture.
Do you have a source(s) for this information? I'd like to see how these ideas originated and how those conclusions were gotten to as a consequence of perusing the subject matter. If the source material isn't easily available for public consumption, I'd understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iauiugu View Post
With a Virgo Ceres myself I see enculturation as something where the details really matter to make one come off normal. I see it as a construct Iíve had to analyze to get and I focus on having material possessions and conveying my values to align to the cultures I affiliate with.
Where's Mercury, Moon, Venus, Saturn, Jupiter located in your chart?

I have an 11th H Ceres in Scorpio, unattached to anything in the chart. What would that indicate, according to your theory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iauiugu View Post
To be honest I feel like most astrologers have an adverse or avoidant relationship with the idea of culture in its relationship with convention, given astrology is so off the map within cultures of the new age. So I feel like I have an uphill battle in that way maybe.
I'm not sure if most astrologers are contending with the ideas around the relationship between culture and convention - it might simply be a niche that is vacant. On the other hand, you use terms that need to be unpacked because it isn't obvious to the layperson what you mean by these terms. What do you mean when you talk about "The idea of culture in its relationship with convention"? What classifies a culture as being "of the new age"?

Astrologers are very heterogeneous, some like to have their pet hobby away from the throngs of the masses, while others would like for it once again be taught in the universities and to accepted into the paradigm of modern academia and especially in the good graces of STEM fields. Many are quietist and only care about their own chart, while others try to use astrology to explain the broader world and social phenomena. Some astrologers don't want anything to do with planets beyond Saturn, while you have those who are eager to incorporate as much asteroids and Kuiper belt objects that they can cram into a chart.
__________________
We have silent dogs.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread 08-27-2018, 02:16 AM
aldebaran aldebaran is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 212
Re: Seeking participants in delineating a new take on Ceres

Quote:
Originally Posted by iauiugu View Post
What signs/houses are they in?


With such a tight conjunction with the Sun I'd figure you would be particularly skilled at cultivating a demeanor highly aligned to your solar goals and sense of self. You would be gifted at ingratiating yourself with others of groups you identify with and being an exemplar member of that group. You'd be on the pulse of what is current for them, knowing the key language or behaviors that others come to know the standard by.



With it as part of your sun-moon square it would contribute to the tension experienced in your solar self with your sensitive needs in whatever quality or realm of life there's the butting of heads.
Sun/Ceres on Taurus house 7th. Moon on house 4th.

I like to learn things about specific areas(groups?) that relate to my personality. I usually like very specific things and I have difficult to enjoy something more diverse, out of the very-specific which I like.
__________________
A lua ť sempre a lua, ů, meu amor, e tanta! Mesmo se a passar por Shravana...
http://lunacanam.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Unread 08-29-2018, 06:27 AM
iauiugu iauiugu is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 30
Re: Seeking participants in delineating a new take on Ceres

Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
Now, I notice you used Pluto's supposedly combined energy signature as a comparison to how you view Ceres' astrological outflow. There is a criticism that certain sects of astrologers have of the more recent additions to the astrological planets - the fact that they can be divisible by other planetary signatures is an argument against them being on the same level as the more "fundamental" planets. For example - those of more ancient persuasion could look at the significations of Uranus and put all of its traits under the umbrella of the Sun, Mars and Mercury - for Neptune you could place its significations under Venus, Moon and Jupiter - with Pluto, the ruler-ships can fall under Mars, Saturn, Sun and Mercury. But one can't do the same to the planets from Sun to Saturn, there are "indivisible" and no combination of these planets could ever convincingly amount to a singular planet in the suite.

I find this argument compelling, and really my main argument against it is that the modern planetary archetypes take on associations that were formally connected to the traditional planets but may not be their best match, how venus was connected to innana and Ereshkigal to mars of the old sumerian descent myth, but i see the former as more like ceres and the latter is commonly seem more like pluto, just how the greek reimagining of the myth brought on these other gods



Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post

If Ceres is, as you say, the cultivating of one's image as a member of one's culture and status, what of Jupiter, who's has dominion over status, culture, what is popular/populist and success in public life? Being the paragon of a culture is very much under Jupiter's auspices, what do you think about Jupiter in this regard? Check out this link, and what it says about Jupiter - the issue of insignias and branding is covered under what Jupiter is said to represent


To be honest I feel like much of what this article says of Jupiter I would perscribe to Ceres instead, and haven't before heard assigned to Jupiter


things like totems and following trends. I see it as a conflation of little and big c culture a bit -- I can see Jupiter connected to big-c Culture, status and sophistication that is high in a hierarchy and reflects one's genuine ingratiation with what the world has to offer. being cultured in a jupiterian way is travelling abroad and having a wide ranging sense of what it means to be human and how to appreciate people's differences and respect difference ways to live, and recognize from an embodied global perspective values that are higher and lower. while cererian culture knowing when to shake hands, the proper gait to your walk, what particular slang means to particular people. jupiter appreciates the difference, ceres immerses in them.


but otherwise i feel like the offer overemphasizes a pretention to jupiter's religious and high-minded nature, connecting it to appease parents as a child. I find it to be more of a genuine (even when over-inflated) sense of conscience, morality, and do-goodery, even if its connected to wanting to appear good, too.


like i once read jupiter was connected to the gift-giving concept of some societies, where the rich gift away all their belongings to their community by throwing the best party ever to outdo everyone before them.


the pretention and appearance-focus is what i subscribe to ceres, the focus on what hits the senses as tasty and normal, which is more about fitting in and being at the center of a culture than being an exemplar of it... i think i used the word status for it too lightly




Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
Do you have a source(s) for this information? I'd like to see how these ideas originated and how those conclusions were gotten to as a consequence of perusing the subject matter. If the source material isn't easily available for public consumption, I'd understand.
I wish I could find more on the philosophical trends of the turn of the 19th century but the little-c culture i reference came up in the article on culture in Critical Terms for the Study of Gender, ed. Catharine R. Stimpson and Gilbert. i tried reading it after a gender studies professor recommended it after he was condenscending to me as a fine arts master student applying to be a TA for his intro course, despite his inviting me to an interview for it... anyways. i came by the connection without deliberately seeking it out. i intend to do deeper digging into what can be associated with the discovery of ceres




Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
Where's Mercury, Moon, Venus, Saturn, Jupiter located in your chart?

I have an 11th H Ceres in Scorpio, unattached to anything in the chart. What would that indicate, according to your theory?

mercury with my sun and ceres in virgo/2nd, moon with saturn in cap/6th, venus and jupiter in leo/1st


hmmmm i suppose your vision penetrates to the core of what makes a convention tick, how it clicks with people's emotions and influences them. picking up on how someone's word choices or haircut are chosen to get them to fit in better with their peers or strangers they want to show some connection to, or how some insight you have into them led them to choose the particular subculture they've latched onto. and maybe you use this awareness in contributing to causes 11th house stuff etc



Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
I'm not sure if most astrologers are contending with the ideas around the relationship between culture and convention - it might simply be a niche that is vacant. On the other hand, you use terms that need to be unpacked because it isn't obvious to the layperson what you mean by these terms. What do you mean when you talk about "The idea of culture in its relationship with convention"? What classifies a culture as being "of the new age"?


the fact that the connection between culture and convention is so outside of the paradigm of modern astrology is part of what got me wondering where it belongs in the field -- coming to it with my BA in anthropology, where i focused on folklore, myth, and culture.



culture is a set of conventions in my mind, that are somewhat arbitrary but grounded in some sensual taste inherent to people. like corn syrup exploiting the body's desire for easy energy evolved to be satiated by fruit. by new age i mean our time of globalization and commercial culture, when before most people would only experience one culture their whole life, or else may be a chauvinist for their own culture, but our experience with multiple cultures and maybe being a part of more than one is becoming more common




Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
Astrologers are very heterogeneous, some like to have their pet hobby away from the throngs of the masses, while others would like for it once again be taught in the universities and to accepted into the paradigm of modern academia and especially in the good graces of STEM fields. Many are quietist and only care about their own chart, while others try to use astrology to explain the broader world and social phenomena. Some astrologers don't want anything to do with planets beyond Saturn, while you have those who are eager to incorporate as much asteroids and Kuiper belt objects that they can cram into a chart.

i see how heterogeneous the approaches of astrologers are, but i feel like philosophically and by consequence culturally its still mostly in the shadow of the pluto-leo generation, which doesn't see itself in need to prove itself to science or take seriously the challenge of ending its poor reputation, often sees itself above it or otherwise incommensurate with it in a way that doesn't require critical self-reflection. there's this sense that astrology is at the end of reconciling science and religion and the masses need to catch up, not that there's something off or rotten in astrology that keeps it untouchable



in contrast meeting more fellow pluto-scorpios there's more people who were against astrology and have struggled to reconcile themselves to it, they are more fluent in scientific thinking and are more at peace and vocal about the shortcomings and delusions of astrology. they seem to be better at 'code switching' between astrology speak and how one speaks in other parts of their life. i dunno

Last edited by iauiugu; 08-29-2018 at 06:30 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to iauiugu For This Useful Post:
conspiracy theorist (02-25-2019)
  #16  
Unread 02-24-2019, 08:57 PM
CapAquaPis's Avatar
CapAquaPis CapAquaPis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: ...in the sidereal astrological system.
Posts: 2,092
Re: Seeking participants in delineating a new take on Ceres

My natal Ceres conjuncts Venus and Eris in midheaven (MC) and 10th in Aries. This is a potent to give off "feminine" energies in my natal chart (although Im a biological male). It can equally affect my sun/moon Aquarius (8th) conjunction.
__________________
or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Unread 02-25-2019, 06:16 AM
iauiugu iauiugu is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 30
Re: Seeking participants in delineating a new take on Ceres

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapAquaPis View Post
My natal Ceres conjuncts Venus and Eris in midheaven (MC) and 10th in Aries. This is a potent to give off "feminine" energies in my natal chart (although Im a biological male). It can equally affect my sun/moon Aquarius (8th) conjunction.

I see Ceres as ruling Taurus so conjunct with Venus I imagine you are skilled at not only quick (Aries) solidifying a reputation for harmonizing with others on an intimate and personal level (10th venus) but also in terms of the particulars of the culture and memes of others too, signalling and insiderness to other's subcultural commitments on top of their personal qualities. wearing the right clothes, mannerisms, with the right subtextual innuendo
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Unread 02-25-2019, 06:45 AM
BlackLioness87's Avatar
BlackLioness87 BlackLioness87 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Spanish is spoken ;)
Posts: 458
Re: Seeking participants in delineating a new take on Ceres

Hi iauiugu, what's your opinion about my Ceres retro conjunct Uranus retro, both in Saggitarius 3H and in tight conjunction with my IC. I have an interpretation (according to mythology and to what other astrologers say) but maybe it's wrong.

Last edited by BlackLioness87; 02-25-2019 at 04:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Unread 02-26-2019, 03:29 AM
CapAquaPis's Avatar
CapAquaPis CapAquaPis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: ...in the sidereal astrological system.
Posts: 2,092
Cool Re: Seeking participants in delineating a new take on Ceres

Quote:
Originally Posted by iauiugu View Post
I see Ceres as ruling Taurus so conjunct with Venus I imagine you are skilled at not only quick (Aries) solidifying a reputation for harmonizing with others on an intimate and personal level (10th venus) but also in terms of the particulars of the culture and memes of others too, signalling and insiderness to other's subcultural commitments on top of their personal qualities. wearing the right clothes, mannerisms, with the right subtextual innuendo
I find your assessment of Ceres in Aries people to be correct, I have an interest in internet culture and humor (memes and gifs are a huge part of them) and able to relate (these can be called subcultures) to generations Z and Millennials, as well Baby boomers and those born in WW2 era.

My MC is in 3' Aries conjunct 7' Venus - and my south node 29' Aquarius next to 26' sun are indicators of a past life as the opposite sex (I was a woman who was killed in her 20s in the fall of Saigon, (South) Vietnam, now Ho Chi Minh city in April-May 1975). 29' Aquarius is the degree of transformation of ones' self, it's about the soul and spirit taking on new and radically different identities (like biological sex). And the dwarf planet Eris (conjunct Ceres and Venus in Aries) as co-ruler of Aquarius, named for the goddess of discord, business and celebrity (popularity and reputation).
__________________
or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ceres, delineating, participants, seeking

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 11:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.