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Aspects & configurations Discuss here about natal chart aspects and configurations.


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  #26  
Unread 12-23-2017, 12:55 PM
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Re: By Sign Or By Orb?

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Originally Posted by CancerEvolve View Post
Sun is squared by Mars for me even though Taurus & Cancer are trine signs.
Here's the thing with that aspect, though. Mars does badly in both Cancer and Taurus, or in aspect to anything in Cancer or Taurus. Traditional astrology does not consider trines and sextiles as de facto goods, sometimes they just make it really easy for bad things to happen, depending on the state of the planets involved.

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Unread 12-23-2017, 02:22 PM
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Re: By Sign Or By Orb?

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Sun is squared by Mars for me even though Taurus & Cancer are trine signs.
You might want to look at ignoring the random blue lines shown by astro.com . Think beyond those random lines and consider that the sign energies are much more important and have a real logic to them, which gives an astrologer a fundament to work with. Since Taurus and Cancerian energies trine each other, earth and water like each other to put it in simple language, planets in these signs cannot square each other.
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  #28  
Unread 12-23-2017, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddity View Post
Here's the thing with that aspect, though. Mars does badly in both Cancer and Taurus, or in aspect to anything in Cancer or Taurus. Traditional astrology does not consider trines and sextiles as de facto goods, sometimes they just make it really easy for bad things to happen, depending on the state of the planets involved.
That makes sense.

I don't feel detrimented by my Mars placement mind you it's controlled or becomes instinctual if my protective side needs to come out (family) and it's not shy it's full of rage and physical prescence but that Mars conjuncts Moon 1 degree in 10th conjunct MC in Aries.

Saturn in 6th governed to work until my last day.

Last edited by CancerEvolve; 12-23-2017 at 02:55 PM.
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Unread 12-23-2017, 04:14 PM
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Re: By Sign Or By Orb?

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Originally Posted by aquarius7000 View Post
Frisiangal,

I do understand your standpoint, and, though I cannot force you to post your chart, but I do think that I would be able to delineate your relevant area of life without Nep as the ruler of it. .
I think I have supplied all relevant information in this topic regarding interpretting Jupiter.
To recap:

Sag on I.C.,
Pisces on Desc.,
Jupiter in 12th house,
Jupiter's only aspect is applying square to Sun in Taurus in 9th.

I'm already aware of a once inferiority complex (different to 'failure' complex)
that my Sag. Sun husband's 'oratory' style got my Taurus Sun to recognise BS when it heard it, and get its own backside moving.

Apart from 'belief' patterns already mentioned, leaving home never to return (to house), taking up residence abroad, I'd be interested what else that one aspect alone reveals.

Feel free.

Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I do use the outers, but only with tight orbs to inners and certainly not as rulers
So how do you see them working?

Jupiter and Saturn are of the traditional 7 planets. Do you count them within the inner circle, or outside of it?

Saturn's only aspect is to Neptune. Does that make it traditionally unaspected?

If my Neptune was in 12th house to 9th house Sun, what would be the difference in interpretation to Jupiter? Would there be one from the traditional viewpoint?

( Virgo Asc.) Precision in the making ?
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  #30  
Unread 12-23-2017, 04:34 PM
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Re: By Sign Or By Orb?

Hi,

Quote:
So how do you see them working?

Jupiter and Saturn are of the traditional 7 planets. Do you count them within the inner circle, or outside of it?

If my Neptune was in 12th house to 9th house Sun, what would be the difference in interpretation to Jupiter? Would there be one from the traditional viewpoint?
I don't like being closed-minded to incoming discoveries and news. That said, being a fixed-sign solar and asc. native, it will take a lot of provable convincing to make me change what I currently live with and believe in - at any given point in time.

I actually started out with modern astrology over a decade ago. However, everytime I would read a delineation of a natal or mundane chart, which used traditional sign rulers, they would completely outshine my working with Nep or Plu as Pisces' and Sco's rulers respectively. I started getting into understanding how Mars made more sense Sco's ruler, and that not just at the level of Mars being agressive or jealous and whatnot one conveniently (I too at that time) associated with Sco., but from the very roots of the planet - right from its humour and temperament. Once all that made so much sense, I started practising it myself and saw that theory actually working on the charts I was working with, one by one. I stuck to practising it quite a few years until I was so convinced that the outers completely faded out for me as sign rulers. However, they still had their role to play when sitting on an angle or being in a one of the mainstream aspects to the luminaries, especially, and to other inner planets, incl. Jupiter and Saturn, since I use the latter as sign rulers.

I will say though that when it comes to the slow moving inners (Jupiter, but much more so Saturn), I will look more closely at the involvement of the fast-moving planets for co-event-triggers. This, of course, is more in predictive astrology. What I can tell you for sure is that the lunar nodes play a very important role when transiting houses and signs. They will seldom transit a house without an event happening, even if not a big one, but they will jolt the house they are going through.
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  #31  
Unread 12-23-2017, 07:48 PM
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Re: By Sign Or By Orb?

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Originally Posted by aquarius7000 View Post
You might want to look at ignoring the random blue lines shown by astro.com . Think beyond those random lines and consider that the sign energies are much more important and have a real logic to them, which gives an astrologer a fundament to work with. Since Taurus and Cancerian energies trine each other, earth and water like each other to put it in simple language, planets in these signs cannot square each other.
And to put it into even simpler language, yes they can be squaring each other, if they are 90 degrees apart. Technically they are in a square aspect, no matter what sign they are placed in.

What if they were in a sidereal zodiac, and the signs coincided with a square---would this same chart suddenly have a square, according to your rules?

Geometry is geometry, regardless of the zodiacal references.
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  #32  
Unread 12-23-2017, 10:26 PM
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Re: By Sign Or By Orb?

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Originally Posted by katydid View Post
And to put it into even simpler language, yes they can be squaring each other, if they are 90 degrees apart. Technically they are in a square aspect, no matter what sign they are placed in.

What if they were in a sidereal zodiac, and the signs coincided with a square---would this same chart suddenly have a square, according to your rules?

Geometry is geometry, regardless of the zodiacal references.
YES.

Our zodiac isn't perfect. I mean honestly, are the astrological heavens really divided perfectly in 12 signs???

Like that just doesn't make sense. We like to think it does, but it doesn't.

I have Moon and Mercury conjunct. In traditional astrology they aren't conjunct because my merc is in leo and my moon is in virgo. But vedic astrology they are conjunct.

In my opinion, the zodiac signs blend into one another.

I also think the out-of-sign aspects work a bit differently. They're totally there, the energies just have different ways of coming out.
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  #33  
Unread 12-23-2017, 11:12 PM
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This is Astrology - not geometry or maths. Everything is energy based, not angle based. Energy goes ahead of angles here. [deleted attacking comment - Moderator]
Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post
And to put it into even simpler language, yes they can be squaring each other, if they are 90 degrees apart. Technically they are in a square aspect, no matter what sign they are placed in.

What if they were in a sidereal zodiac, and the signs coincided with a square---would this same chart suddenly have a square, according to your rules?

Geometry is geometry, regardless of the zodiacal references.

Last edited by wilsontc; 12-24-2017 at 05:20 PM.
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Unread 12-23-2017, 11:23 PM
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Re: By Sign Or By Orb?

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Originally Posted by aquarius7000 View Post
This is Astrology - not geometry or maths. Everything is energy based, not angle based, unless one is confused. Energy goes ahead of angles here.
[deleted attacking comment - Moderator]
Math is the language of the universe though. It literally is. Math and Astrology go hand and hand. Math is the practical and objective language that we use to literally calculate matter and energy. LITERALLY.

There's a reason why trines are the easiest. They are 120 degrees. They make triangles. Triangles are the most powerful building blocks in the universe.

Same with sextiles. You can see hexagons in bee hives because they're a great basic structure.

Things made out of squares have to be perfected and get "worn out" over time because there's a sense of tension with them. People in the modern world agonize for perfect geometric modern furniture with smooth surfaces and flat tops.

And then 180 degrees is like half of a circle so like yeahhh... if you add all the angles of a triangle it will always equal 180.

And then the conjunct is obvious.

Ignoring these numbers because of some signs is ridiculous.
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  #35  
Unread 12-23-2017, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Math is the language of the universe though. It literally is. Math and Astrology go hand and hand. Math is the practical and objective language that we use to literally calculate matter and energy. LITERALLY.

There's a reason why trines are the easiest. They are 120 degrees. They make triangles. Triangles are the most powerful building blocks in the universe.

Same with sextiles. You can see hexagons in bee hives because they're a great basic structure.

Things made out of squares have to be perfected and get "worn out" over time because there's a sense of tension with them. People in the modern world agonize for perfect geometric modern furniture with smooth surfaces and flat tops.

And then 180 degrees is like half of a circle so like yeahhh... if you add all the angles of a triangle it will always equal 180.

And then the conjunct is obvious.

Ignoring these numbers because of some signs is ridiculous.
Well said. Worst aspect truthfully is an opposition.

Saturn in my case and Pluto to Moon & Mars.
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Unread 12-23-2017, 11:53 PM
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Re: By Sign Or By Orb?

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Originally Posted by CancerEvolve View Post
Well said. Worst aspect truthfully is an opposition.

Saturn in my case and Pluto to Moon & Mars.
Yes, Cancer I know. You've told me about that placement in your chart like 10 times.
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Unread 12-23-2017, 11:56 PM
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Re: By Sign Or By Orb?

I have Mercury conjunct my Asc but 12th house.

So houses are sharing energy. Sun & Jupiter in Cancer also share my 12th house.

My charts high point is Moon and it's powered with Mars well both power each other in tandem.

Cap dominant even above my Sun.
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Unread 12-23-2017, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Yes, Cancer I know. You've told me about that placement in your chart like 10 times.
I like to get my point across and be heard even hammer it in.

Mars square Mercury... Getting better but as you said yourself takes time.
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Unread 12-23-2017, 11:59 PM
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Re: By Sign Or By Orb?

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Originally Posted by CancerEvolve View Post
I have Mercury conjunct my Asc but 12th house.

So houses are sharing energy. Sun & Jupiter in Cancer also share my 12th house.

My charts high point is Moon and it's powered with Mars well both power each other in tandem.

Cap dominant even above my Sun.
Thanks for telling me more about you, Leo Asc.
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Unread 12-23-2017, 11:59 PM
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Re: By Sign Or By Orb?

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Originally Posted by CancerEvolve View Post
I like to get my point across and be heard even hammer it in.

Mars square Mercury... Getting better but as you said yourself takes time.
Get a Saturn trine on that Mars so you can get that under control.
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Unread 12-24-2017, 12:00 AM
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Thanks for telling me more about you, Leo Asc.
You are welcome would you like a tofee?
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  #42  
Unread 12-24-2017, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Get a Saturn trine on that Mars so you can get that under control.
Does a square become trine?
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  #43  
Unread 12-24-2017, 12:03 AM
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Re: By Sign Or By Orb?

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Originally Posted by CancerEvolve View Post
Does a square become trine?
Only in transits.

We've gone off topic.
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  #44  
Unread 12-24-2017, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Only in transits.

We've gone off topic.
Other than abusing each others ego's it's on topic and I'm jesting.
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Unread 12-24-2017, 02:22 AM
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Re: By Sign Or By Orb?

Trines are the easiest because they are formed between planets in signs that naturally trine one another due to the due to the same energy. Ever studied a trine in astrology? It is between planets in one water sign to planets in another water sign. Same for all other elements. From air to air. That is the logic in astrology.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Math is the language of the universe though. It literally is. Math and Astrology go hand and hand. Math is the practical and objective language that we use to literally calculate matter and energy. LITERALLY.

There's a reason why trines are the easiest. They are 120 degrees. They make triangles. Triangles are the most powerful building blocks in the universe.

Same with sextiles. You can see hexagons in bee hives because they're a great basic structure.

Things made out of squares have to be perfected and get "worn out" over time because there's a sense of tension with them. People in the modern world agonize for perfect geometric modern furniture with smooth surfaces and flat tops.

And then 180 degrees is like half of a circle so like yeahhh... if you add all the angles of a triangle it will always equal 180.

And then the conjunct is obvious.

Ignoring these numbers because of some signs is ridiculous.
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Last edited by wilsontc; 12-24-2017 at 03:35 PM.
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Unread 12-24-2017, 06:53 AM
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Re: By Sign Or By Orb?

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Originally Posted by aquarius7000 View Post
This is Astrology - not geometry or maths. Everything is energy based, not angle based, unless one is confused. Energy goes ahead of angles here.
Should be simple to understand really.
Why would you say that Astrology was not angle based and not geometry or math?

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Last edited by wilsontc; 12-26-2017 at 12:08 AM.
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Unread 12-24-2017, 07:04 AM
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Re: By Sign Or By Orb?

Astrodynes
The measurement of astral-force


Astrology, mathematics and measurement


http://astrologyforaquarius.com/astr...d-measurement/

Your birthchart is a mathematical model of your character and the rules of astrology allow you to precisely calculate and forecast your character’s reaction to circumstance

In mathematics, especially geometry, the birthchart is a dynamic moving structure. The planets have become mathematical points in space and the zodiac has become a mathematical framework and your birthchart has become a mathematical pattern of your character, the only blueprint of your mind and temperament that’s currently available. This means that the planets and signs in your chart symbolize forces within your mind and the application of numbers and mathematical rules – applied mathematics – allows you to solve the most intangible and elusive problems regarding your human nature.

Mathematics is the master-key of Aquarian Age science. It’s essential to all the sciences. From the scientific angle the key point is measurement, and astrology, in order to gain recognition as a science, had to be dealt with in terms that correspond to mathematical formulae. So, Hermetic astrology developed a method for measuring the strength and functionality of each individual marker in any birthchart. That’s when mathematics and astrology became a dynamic combination, but mathematics can’t prove or disprove astrology.

Astrology is surprisingly mathematical. Numbers permit the accurate measurement of the astrological energies pictured in any birthchart and now they have revolutionized the way the birthchart is assessed and understood. Mathematics is central to problem solving and problem solving is central to your life experience, and the application of numbers will assist you to solve problems and self-develop in the most effective way.

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  #48  
Unread 12-24-2017, 10:37 AM
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Re: By Sign Or By Orb?

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Originally Posted by aquarius7000 View Post
Hi,
I don't like being closed-minded to incoming discoveries and news. That said, being a fixed-sign solar and asc. native, it will take a lot of provable convincing to make me change what I currently live with and believe in - at any given point in time.
My FIXED sign 9th house Sun square Jupiter can say the same.
It's still searching for the Holy Grail, which only my favourite film idol, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, appeared to have found....and lost.

Quote:
What I can tell you for sure
This sounded very like the sort of comment a Jupiter in Taurus could make.

Quote:
I actually started out with modern astrology over a decade ago. However, everytime I would read a delineation of a natal or mundane chart, which used traditional sign rulers, they would completely outshine my working with Nep or Plu as Pisces' and Sco's rulers respectively
.

This is a comment I have heard a number of times from those who ventured into traditional astrology, and even taught it. Yet, when I questioned their denial of the outer planets that ARE physically part of the solar system, none was able to offer an answer. I'm all for ignoring that which isn't physically there, but how is it possible to close one's eyes to that which is?
A reason that I believe the outers refer to levels of conscious growth (inspired by the Jupiter-9th house thing), and why my own out of orb
Saturn-Neptune goes so slowly about it.


Quote:
I started getting into understanding how Mars made more sense Sco's ruler, and that not just at the level of Mars being agressive or jealous and whatnot one conveniently (I too at that time) associated with Sco., but from the very roots of the planet - right from its humour and temperament. Once all that made so much sense, I started practising it myself and saw that theory actually working on the charts I was working with, one by one. I stuck to practising it quite a few years until I was so convinced that the outers completely faded out for me as sign rulers.
Doesn't the highlighted reveal that it was through and/or as a result of personal experience that the seed was planted for the manner in which the mind (further) worked? I was taught and totally agree that Mars has rulership of Scorpio in youth, and under influence of Moon. Yet there does come a time when self assertion and will undergo an 'extra boost', as it were, in which the cutting away of old habitual roots is necessary. Does Jupiter provide that, or simply pave the way?

Quote:
However, they still had their role to play when sitting on an angle or being in a one of the mainstream aspects to the luminaries, especially, and to other inner planets, incl. Jupiter and Saturn, since I use the latter as sign rulers.
This is interesting to philosophise about because my son also has an out of sign Moon end Virgo closely conjunct Pluto begin Libra (ex-wife's Sun)in 7th house. It squares Jupiter end Sagittarius in 11th house, and trines Saturn in 3rd house. She is from a financially independent wealthy family and ruled the proverbial marriage roost. She betrayed his total trust in their relationship. He went through a for him almost self destructive and traumatic divorce that left him penniless.
His 2nd house Mars in Aries makes but one aspect to Uranus in the 8th house! Can Mars go as far as experiencing, yet not self destructing?

Was it all due to a traditional Moon, ruler 6th house, square Jupiter and trine Saturn? OR, did he have to go through such an experience to become the self-assertive and independent individual he now is ........the outer planet 'conscious raising' effect to his natal planets? Did Uranus take over from Saturn as ruler Aquarius Asc. and 1st house Sun?

Without delving deeply into the rules of the traditional approach to astrological interpretation, I do admit that looking at circumstances from the inherent qualities of the 7 trad. planets can provide alternate perspectives of them; Rather like looking at an object from each point within an outer circle.

Quote:
What I can tell you for sure is that the lunar nodes play a very important role when transiting houses and signs. They will seldom transit a house without an event happening, even if not a big one, but they will jolt the house they are going through
Once again, I think this would depend upon the level of consciousness of an individual and their feelings towards their physical existence.

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Unread 12-24-2017, 06:32 PM
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Re: By Sign Or By Orb?

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Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
Some astrology folks consider aspects to be aspects if they're within orb but out of sign. Others do not, citing the elemental natures involved. Fair enough. Personally, I do tend to consider out of sign aspects if the orb is close enough, but for those who do, how do you reconcile the nature of the signs with the nature of the aspect?

For example, if we consider aspects by orb, a planet at 29 Aries and a planet at 0 Leo are square. But, both being fire signs, they have that shared fire nature, and by sign, they're trine. Does that make it a different quality square?
No doubt it is a different quality square but from my experience is still a square. I have a couple of these tight orb out of sign squares and you could take any textbook description of these squares and it would apply. The fact that they are sextile by sign (and in one case, disposes the other) seems to make it more exaggerated, actually, it's like they feed each other. With these aspects the planets themselves are what I concern myself with, not the signs. The Sun square Saturn denotes something about the personality, life, etc, regardless of sign.
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  #50  
Unread 12-24-2017, 08:13 PM
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Re: By Sign Or By Orb?

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Originally Posted by katydid View Post
Why would you say that Astrology was not angle based and not geometry or math?
Katydid,

First and foremost, I said nowhere that I did not use aspects. What I did say "was that sign energies go before aspects".

I do NOT consider 'out-of-sign' aspects at all, not even if they are as close 29*55" and 0*5". Does that example help when I say that sign energies go before aspects?
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Last edited by aquarius7000; 12-26-2017 at 04:01 AM. Reason: to correct 20* to 29*
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