A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

david starling

Well-known member
Leomoon, your Fagan-Bradley chart is a good illustration of how the sidereal Sign locations really matter, regarding the sidereal Ages....Using Aldebaran to center sidereal Taurus moves a tropical placement 25 degrees back, sidereally. So, with a tropical placement at 27 degrees Leo, it moves back to 2 degrees Leo. Most of the Ayanamsas move it back less, in the 23 to 24 degree range.

Now, consider what the Ayanamsas do when it comes to the start-year of the Age of Aquarius:

With the Fagan-Bradley chart for example, the VP (the Sun's position at the beginning of Spring in the Northern hemisphere), which is the standard Age-indicator for the sidereal Ages, won't ingress sidereal Aquarius until 2376.
 
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leomoon

Well-known member
Its probably a F-B only by chance, not by design from me...very likely. Using the Sidereal not as a Vedic chart but western sidereal prompted it I suppose at the time if anything at all...


From this link:
https://www.astro.com/astrology/in_ayanamsha_e.htm
* Fagan/Bradley Ayanamsha

Originally called the "Hypsomatic ayanamsha" by the Irish American astrologer Cyril Fagan (1896-1970), it was introduced in a book titled Zodiacs Old and New in 1950. Fagan placed the fixed star Spica at 29° Virgo based on his research into the origins of the exaltation degrees (hypsomata). The American astrologer Donald A. Bradley (1925-1974, aka Garth Allen) corrected the position of this star to about 29°06 Virgo in 1957 after he investigated hundreds of Sidereal lunar and solar ingresses into the cardinal signs that preceded major mundane events such as volcanic eruptions and mining disasters. With this ayanamsha, which he dubbed the "Synetic" vernal point or SVP, the important stars Aldebaran and Antares are located at almost exactly 15° Taurus and Scorpio respectively.
The Fagan/Bradley zodiac is very close to the zodiac that was used by Babylonian astrologers in the Hellenistic period. Statistical examinations of astronomical cuneiform tablets by Peter Huber in 1958 have provided an ayanamsha that differs by less than an arc minute from the Fagan/Bradley ayanamsha. However, according to a more recent investigation by John P. Britton (2010), the difference could still amount to several arc minutes.
note: The mentioning of Antares and Aldebaran in the tropical are: Antares (Anti-Ares) 09Sagittarius and Aldebaran is 09Gemini (cj. my N.N. 11th hs.) :)
 
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Opal

Premium Member
:unsure:

I identify well with both, very well....and always recalled EC (Cayce) saying both charts count, as one is showing us our "in between stages" when the soul moves on and incorporates (much like LOKA explained by certain Vedic astrologer mainly Brahmin per Raman)
incorporated the "energies" that last lifetime afforded them via their own cause and effect. The "effect part" I guess, is Loka, in the in between stages and can be seen by the sidereal Sun-Moon & Ascendant.


Loka is a Sanskrit term meaning "world" or "a particular division of the universe.". The most frequent division of the universe in Hinduism is the tri-loka: Earth, heaven and atmosphere.
What is Loka? - Definition from Yogapedia

www.yogapedia.com/definition/5578/loka





Moon in Leo is widely conj. "Regulus" 2nd house, so means, in Virgo Sidereal chart.


So both charts are important.


I use my Tropical Cancer Rising ordinarily, as that is how others will see and experience me. Cancer Rising in the 21st degree, (a self-undoing) degree btw.
I wear my heart on my sleeve - and get into trouble a lot doing so......


My dear husband (a Libra Sun-Scorpio ASC in the Tropical manner) use to say, "If we are cut do we not bleed?"....That explains well, - I BLEED emotions a lot. :crying:


But I also WRITE and TALK a lot, per Gemini Rising. Thats why I write books in order to have an outlet for emotions too.

Hey, do I remind you of your husband at all? Libra Sun/Scorpio rising

I have said that.
 

Opal

Premium Member
Interesting, Gene Ray has the Age of Pisces entering well before.

I am used to all numbers of precession adding up to 9 though.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Now, consider a sidereal Aquarian Age start-year deliberately chosen by a tropical astrologer, who believes the sidereal Zodiac is for "Ages only". The tropicalist usually chooses based on an event that appears to suggest the beginning of the sidereal Age of Pisces, and has an Aquarian Age start-year to match, which looks good--2012, for example, the Mayan Calendar date for the point of Winter Solstice to enter the constellation now known as Scorpio. Gene Ray chose 2012, which turns the sidereal Zodiac about 7 degrees compared to Fagan-Bradley. This affects all the placements. So, in your chart, that would move your Moon solidly into sidereal Cancer, at about 25 degrees.

For Gene, the only thing that mattered was an Aquarian Age start-year that suited his opinion--never mind the changes to the sidereal positions of Sun, Moon, Ascendant, Planets, Nodes, and Houses.

This is because Gene had the tropical Zodiac for reading Charts, on the one hand, and the sidereal for choosing the start-year of the Aquarian Age, on the other. That's been standard practice for tropical astrologers for the last 100+ years, since the Aquarian Age concept was first introduced into sidereal astrology.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Hmm....a good name for the way tropicalists choose the start-year of the sidereal Age of Aquarius could be, "Rectification of the Sidereal Ages".
This accounts for the myriad start-dates chosen by hundreds of tropical astrologers.
 

Opal

Premium Member
Hmm....a good name for the way tropicalists choose the start-year of the sidereal Age of Aquarius could be, "Rectification of the Sidereal Ages".
This accounts for the myriad start-dates chosen by hundreds of tropical astrologers.

😄😄😄 I love it! Thanks for the smile!
 

Opal

Premium Member
Now, consider a sidereal Aquarian Age start-year deliberately chosen by a tropical astrologer, who believes the sidereal Zodiac is for "Ages only". The tropicalist usually chooses based on an event that appears to suggest the beginning of the sidereal Age of Pisces, and has an Aquarian Age start-year to match, which looks good--2012, for example, the Mayan Calendar date for the point of Winter Solstice to enter the constellation now known as Scorpio. Gene Ray chose 2012, which turns the sidereal Zodiac about 7 degrees compared to Fagan-Bradley. This affects all the placements. So, in your chart, that would move your Moon solidly into sidereal Cancer, at about 25 degrees.

For Gene, the only thing that mattered was an Aquarian Age start-year that suited his opinion--never mind the changes to the sidereal positions of Sun, Moon, Ascendant, Planets, Nodes, and Houses.

This is because Gene had the tropical Zodiac for reading Charts, on the one hand, and the sidereal for choosing the start-year of the Aquarian Age, on the other. That's been standard practice for tropical astrologers for the last 100+ years, since the Aquarian Age concept was first introduced into sidereal astrology.

Tropical, what would you pick for an age indicator, solstice or equinox, which one and why?

Sidereal I usually see winter solstice.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Tropical, what would you pick for an age indicator, solstice or equinox, which one and why?

Sidereal I usually see winter solstice.

Winter solstice point (0 degrees tropical Capricorn) is approaching sidereal Scorpio, at the same time the Spring Equinox point (0 degrees tropical Aries) is approaching sidereal Aquarius.

The Solstice and Equinox points are unavailable for transiting the tropical Zodiac, since they locate its Sign divisions themselves.

For these tropical Ages, I'm using a constructed Age-interval, or "Age-window", of 30 degrees, the exact length of a constructed tropical Sign-division, centered on the center-line of the Earth's elliptical orbit. It progresses in and out of convergence with one tropical Sign at a time, due to Earth's wobble, which causes what is known as "Precession of the Perihelion". The Age-window's leading point in the direction of motion is the "Age-indicator", and when convergence is complete with one Sign, the Age-indicator ingresses the next Sign and signals the beginning of the next Age.

Astronomers refer to this transit relative to the Seasons as "Precession of the Perihelion", measured each year at the time that the Earth is closest to the Sun, even though Progression of the Perihelion is a better description, since it's direct-motion.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
In 2149, the steadily Direct "Mean-setting" (average-location) of the Age-Window, at 1+ minute of arc per year, will finally coincide with tropical Capricorn. The 1750 year Convergent Age of tropical Capricorn will end, and the Convergent Age of tropical Aquarius will begin. This will be when Uranian rulership becomes dominant, and conditions commensurate with the Aquarian Age will rapidly develop.

The True-setting (actual yearly position) of the Age-window, which randomly fluctuates +/- nearly 2 degrees from one year to the next, will first ingress tropical Aquarius in 2047.

In 2033, the steadily Direct Mean-setting of the Age-window will have reached 28 degrees tropical Capricorn. And, that same year, the fluctuating True-setting will be less than half a degree away from Convergence. So, a new Age-degree generation of children will be born starting in the year 2033.
 
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leomoon

Well-known member
Opal: I always remind him, he has the "evil degree" of Scorpio Rising, (per Charubel), lol.
17-18° (I'd add 19th too), as they were described as the "most cursed degree of the most accursed sign".


:surprised:

Bottom line however, is not so bad. It simply means, a block of "black & white" nothing grey ...and quite honestly, he is like that. Its either one way or another it seems...Also has Moon in the last deg. of Cancer, which helps, because that's my Tropical Rising sign. When its the Moon however, it behaves a whole lot differently in that the Moon in Cancer simply cannot get out of its depth if depressed without a lot of effort and time for the feelings to subside. (very sad to see) ...I think you have Capricorn Moon!:unsure:


from my Fixed Stars Kindle:
18-19° Scorpio- Serpentinis
Charubel the esoteric astrologer called it, “the most cursed degree of the most accursed sign” in his writings on the critical degrees saying “no good may come from this”. What I have found is that it tends to incline an individual towards black and white thinking. Their focus and perspective are harmed because of it, unless they have other things in their chart to enlarge their scope of understanding yet even then it may take effort to overcome. Another mention of it is in volume 2 by March & McEvers towards the end of the book, “North Scale – brilliant mind, the accursed degree 18 Scorpio 59.”
Charubel aka John Thomas of Wales, circa 1826, had his Ascendant in Scorpio 13° and was very sensitive towards the sign’s degrees. He was born at 7 A.M. with his Sun at 16° Scorpio, conjunct the Ascendant.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
For me, the cool thing about "Scorpio Rising" is, I include the Egyptian Phoenix as a significant version of the 8th Sign. So, that would be the Phoenix arising, reborn, from the ashes.
 

david starling

Well-known member
The Phoenix is at the height of wisdom and knowledge when it accepts its fate, and willingly dies in fire, knowing it will be reborn after giving up its former life. When it arises reborn, it remembers nothing. It's starting over, primal and wild, and eager to experience whatever its new life has to offer.
 

leomoon

Well-known member
The Phoenix is at the height of wisdom and knowledge when it accepts its fate, and willingly dies in fire, knowing it will be reborn after giving up its former life. When it arises reborn, it remembers nothing. It's starting over, primal and wild, and eager to experience whatever its new life has to offer.


I'm sure Scorpio Risings will prefer this description then Charubel's. :smile:


added: Opal
- I was thinking of your question, and one important trait that you share would be the willingness to go the extra mile to have peace with your fellow beings. I think that's a quality and trait I'd like myself. :) Both of you share that desire for peaceful resolutions.
 
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leomoon

Well-known member
Leomoon, what's your experience with Pisces?


I can't recall many Pisces Suns in my life actually. I always thought we'd get along well, because of my Cancer Rising, but my only close relative that is a Pisces would be a grandson, we don't see. He has Regulus at the Asc. Algol at the MC and Fomalhaut cj. his 7th house Sun. I wish him well. I got along very well with his sister however, a Virgo Sun with Leo Moon (all my granddaughters have Leo Moons btw)


His father is a Naval officer, or was once upon a time. But they are as "tight as a bug in a rug" ....that family. They don't usually take well to others stronger opinions in the family.



I was waiting for his fame (Fomalhaut) and the last I heard, he was making a few productions for the College he attends. Starring in them,and rec'd Congressional Awards for it, so I suppose that counts too for Fomalhaut (any kind of newspaper, news or making the news print or otherwise). Glad it was in a positive way. :whistling:


Other then him, I can't think of anyone. I've lived a sheltered life I suppose compared to many. Except for the travels I've done. :wink:
More of acquaintances with Libras, Aries, Cancer, even Aquarius....and certainly Scorpios although I have no Scorpio except for Jupiter. A few Virgos in my life and of course my late mom, Sagittarius 12/14., but I didn't realize until it was too late, she WAS really my best friend too. SHE I miss, insults & all. :)
Oh, and I always thought I'd have gotten along well with Edgar Cayce considering such a good deal of my life has been taken up with him as subject matter. He had a lot of earth in his natal chart too., but he was quintessential Pisces I think...
https://www.astrotheme.com/astrology/Edgar_Cayce
 
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david starling

Well-known member
The most outstanding feature of the tropical Age of Scorpio was the ancient Egyptian culture, including its obsession with life-after-death and its pyramids, which relate to that obsession. I have no problem with the Egyptians building the pyramids, mostly using an alchemical method of creating natural-looking stone from concrete.

This fits the Modality and Element for Scorpio: In alchemy, to "fix" a compound can mean to solidify it. Concrete is a watery, liquid substance before it becomes solidified into stonelike blocks. So, Fixed-Water.

They also worshipped Osirus as god of the Underworld, which is where the Greco-Roman religions borrowed their version of Underworld ruler, Pluto, now known as ruler of Scorpio.

I use a "3 Levels of Awareness" paradigm to help explain the Modalities:

Cardinal•••••Conscious level
Fixed••••••••Subconscious level
Mutable •••••Unconscious level

The focus of a Fixed-sign Age is the Subconscious, which explains the "Underworld concept" which was paramount to ancient Egypt during the Fixed-sign Age of Scorpio.

We're currently hooked on the Conscious-level of awareness, during this Cardinal-sign Age of Capricorn. So, we can't really grasp the nature of what constituted Reality during the Subconscious-level, Fixed-sign Age of Scorpio, or what Reality will be like when people have so much more access to the Subconscious during the Fixed-sign Age of Aquarius.

With Sagittarius as our background Age-sign, we astrologers do have some insight into the Mutable-sign, Unconscious-level Age of Sagittarius that manifested astrology itself.

The Conscious-level mindset of Cardinal-sign, Capricornian Age, Modern Science, can't relate to the Unconscious-level nature of astrology.
 
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