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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #1  
Unread 08-03-2013, 08:17 PM
eternalautumn
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The Ninth House and Religion

According to traditional astrology the ninth house rules religion and beliefs of a higher order.

What are your religious/spiritual/philosophical views? Do you believe in god? How does astrology fit into your system of belief?

What is the ninth sign from the Ascendant in your chart? Are any of the traditional seven planets placed in this sign? What signs/houses do they rule in your chart, and are any planets there? What sign and house is the traditional domicile ruler* located in?

I follow no religion or philosophy but am deeply interested in them all. I believe in god as far as I believe that it seems logical that the universe has a source, and that we could call that source god, but anything beyond that is improvisation. I believe in astrology because I believe that everything in our universe has a common source, and is therefore connected and unified, and that therefore looking to the macrocosm can inform us of the microcosm. It is in our nature to find patterns and I believe this is important in and of itself.

The ninth sign in my chart is Cancer, with Jupiter there, exalted. Jupiter rules the second and fifth houses, and no planets are placed there. The Moon is in the tenth house, conjunct the Midheaven, in Leo.

*Traditional Domicile Rulerships

Saturn = Capricorn, Aquarius
Jupiter = Sagittarius, Pisces
Mars = Aries, Scorpio
Sun = Leo
Venus = Taurus, Libra
Mercury = Gemini, Virgo
Moon = Cancer

[moderator note - moved thread to traditional forum as discussion requests traditional perspective]


Last edited by Neptune Rising; 08-10-2013 at 05:48 PM.
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Unread 08-03-2013, 10:13 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

"If Venus were in the 9th house and in her own domicile or exaltation,
the native will be a famous hermit
,
and this most strongly if Jupiter aspected by a good aspect"


Abu Bakr ON NATIVITIES


Mother Theresa
aka The Blessed Teresa of Calcutta
born 26 August 1910 – 5 September 1997
was an Albanian born, Indian Roman Catholic Religious Sister.


9th House Leo Venus
note Jupiter in Libra on MC in good aspect with Venus by sextile
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Unread 08-10-2013, 12:44 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

I was browsing through natal chart and since I've had more of an interest in house cusps and rulers lately came through this section and found your thread..I can relate quite a bit with what you said concerning not being religious but feeling there is something greater than ourselves kinda keeping things flowing about..I have never felt comfortable in any kind of group setting especially in churches. Maybe I didn't understand the purpose back then as a child, but now I do and I really don't care for it...just seems like another way for people to separate themselves from others when we should be pulling together...bit of a contradiction I think. I have moon in Leo in the 9th quintile Jupiter in Libra in the 11th . I am still trying to suss out the meaning of having moon in the 9th. I tend to look at the 9th as more of higher learning, philosophy, which I do think a lot about and I am most definitely an eternal student always wanting to learn more.
I'm really suprised more ppl have not commented in here?!
maybe this post will bump the thread up! hope you are still around EA!
ETA wen t back and saw you asked for some info.. 9th sign from Asc is (if you count the asc sign) Cancer. I am still learning about traditional so I need to go back and look at my chart and set it up with the traditional house system which I also need to check on...

Last edited by keylime; 08-10-2013 at 12:55 PM. Reason: wanted to ask some questions too
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Unread 08-10-2013, 01:02 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

okay looks like whole signs are used...well that changes some things! now I have moon in leo in the 10th, jupiter in libra in the 12th...moon rules the 9th, jupiter rules the 2nd and 5 th houses also no planets there but do have NN in pisces in 5th...
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Unread 08-10-2013, 02:11 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

My 9th is ruled by Capricorn and I have no planets there. I have Saturn in Virgo in my 5th House conjunct my Sun & Mercury.

I respect religion as a whole but do not follow any religion. I'm not very interested in religion except maybe ancient Mythology if that counts.

I believe in astrology but I do not live my life by it.
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Unread 08-10-2013, 02:48 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

I have Jupiter in my 9th house. Jupiter is RX and though it has low power it is also among the many low friction planets in my chart. My Sun is trine Jupiter and the aspect is the least friction aspect in my chart.

However Saturn is the ruler of my 9th house(and the 8th using Placidus), and Saturn is in the 4th in the 29th degree. Saturn has no power in my chart but because its very very high friction even a little bit of power goes a long long bad bad way.

While I am not involved in regular religion, I am a Quaker, which is really a kind of institutionalized mysticism. For me this means that I am really a Taoist who exists in a Quaker setting. I have studied the Trans Himalayan Wisdom TEaching for many years and did raja yoga for 25 years under the tutelage of the Arcane School in NYC.

The part of Love and Marriage is conjunct my Jupiter. The Arabic parts of Spirit and Religion are opposite my Jupiter. Oppositions are most solved by their midpoints. the midpoint for this is about 1degree 30 second of Taurus, which for a Witte point is: "Plans for work accomplished periodically. Plans for the distant future. Plans that are hindered or interrupted in their development." I have certainly played out my religious studies in this way.

My Jupiter is conjunct the Asteroid Themis, which represents the establishment of Justice, the embodiment of divine order, law, and custom. And as such, one could make a case for Astrology being an exposition of divine order for (hu)man to see for themselves. And thus my concepts of religious are bound into the concept of the conjunction of Jupiter in the 9th house with the Asteroid Themis.

I forgot that this was moved to the Traditional Forum. Much of what was listed here in my post is not used by Traditional Astrology. I will remove the response here if any traditionalists are offended

Last edited by Zarathu; 08-10-2013 at 06:51 PM. Reason: sudden notice of this being in the traditional forum
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Unread 08-10-2013, 04:46 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

Self analysis, why noot

Sun or Moon rule the 9th in my chart, depending upon the house system employed. Both are in Virgo

Jupiter in Leo also conjuncts the 9th cusp, or doesn't according to the same

I'm inclined to posit that the Moon rules the 9th. Apart from a fairly long stint grounded in Buddhist methods and concepts that I still keep close, my religious views change quite often, or rather, I explore and entertain many different religious ideas

As a child, I was more atheistic, and I've also found dystheism rather compelling, the idea that God is wholly malevolent. I might attribute that to the close conjunction of Saturn with the Moon in my chart.

Perhaps the chief tenet of Buddhism (the first noble truth) is 'there is suffering' and that's never been lost on me. I've also been attracted to stoicism, whether you call it philosophy or religion.

As a teen I was exploring Nihilism and Existentialism.

Recently I have been heavily influenced by Gnostic Christianity, Orphism, and Hinduism

9th house attributions seem to have been a big part of my life, particularly during the last decade or so. I seriously considered becoming a full time monk at one time.
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Unread 08-10-2013, 06:01 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

I have no planets in the 9th, but Mercury rules it and is in Aquarius, conjunct Venus, both trine (Pluto) and the MC. I have never been religious, although I was baptised a religion and was taught this at school. I have felt the need to explore different religions as an adult but never would call myself this or that, I find religion far too restrictive. My world perspective encompasses everything as one, all religions lead to the same place when they are broken down (my perspective) and followed through. In some sense, the only belief I subscribe to, is everything is energy, Universal energy, both seen and unseen and felt/sensed.

Though, my beliefs (in energy) come through when I teach (yoga/meditation etc) on a somewhat subconscious level - not directly through me preaching them. The 9th house ruler is conjunct the 10th house ruler, both sextile the Sag north node/ascendant.
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Unread 08-10-2013, 09:22 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalautumn View Post
According to traditional astrology the ninth house rules religion and beliefs of a higher order.

What are your religious/spiritual/philosophical views? Do you believe in god? How does astrology fit into your system of belief?

What is the ninth sign from the Ascendant in your chart? Are any of the traditional seven planets placed in this sign? What signs/houses do they rule in your chart, and are any planets there? What sign and house is the traditional domicile ruler* located in?

I follow no religion or philosophy but am deeply interested in them all. I believe in god as far as I believe that it seems logical that the universe has a source, and that we could call that source god, but anything beyond that is improvisation. I believe in astrology because I believe that everything in our universe has a common source, and is therefore connected and unified, and that therefore looking to the macrocosm can inform us of the microcosm. It is in our nature to find patterns and I believe this is important in and of itself.

The ninth sign in my chart is Cancer, with Jupiter there, exalted. Jupiter rules the second and fifth houses, and no planets are placed there. The Moon is in the tenth house, conjunct the Midheaven, in Leo.

*Traditional Domicile Rulerships

Saturn = Capricorn, Aquarius
Jupiter = Sagittarius, Pisces
Mars = Aries, Scorpio
Sun = Leo
Venus = Taurus, Libra
Mercury = Gemini, Virgo
Moon = Cancer

[moderator note - moved thread to traditional forum as discussion requests traditional perspective]
I liked your post alot but

i dont think the chart of anyone can answer this, it is beyond the chart, a chart may indicate trends and ways of trends, but never to a specific place
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Unread 08-10-2013, 10:22 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

There was another thread in the not too distant past that focused on the Ninth house.

You can go here for the information contained in that thread.
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Unread 08-11-2013, 03:01 AM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

In the divisional (ie harmonic) methods of Vedic astrology, an entire varga (divisional chart) is allocated for the delineation of the religious/spiritual relations affinities, proclivities and other factors involving the native: this is called the Vimsamsa chart (varga) and is the D20 chart of the natal (ie it is the 20th harmonic chart)...
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Unread 08-11-2013, 07:43 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

What are your religious/spiritual/philosophical views? Do you believe in god? How does astrology fit into your system of belief?

I believe in God since very young age might be early primary school age before I learned about any kind of religion. I look at the sky, hearing the birds, and the motion of water, I was the same only logical to believe in God.

Astrology fits into my believe system as I believe the existence of Past, Present and Future as a thread we can look at the past, now and future in one go as the future is already happened. Astrology can see Time in all directions. God is the Alpha and Omega.

In the time of God's creation, after the big bang, all things were in liquid form by today's scientific belief.

Mars would represent the beginning of the creation.

"During this time, the Universe would have been so hot and energetic that the particles making up the elements we know today were unable to form, leaving the constituents to float “free” as a primordial soup."

http://news.discovery.com/space/in-t...s-a-liquid.htm

In the bible it said from NIV version,

"Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters."

"Waters" as form of liquids.

And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.”So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.”


Separation of waters between waters, the water above the sky, the sea/rivers/lakes are the the functions of Neptune and Saturn.

Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

Here we see the signs of Virgo, Capricorn, and functions of Moon, Venus, Mercury and Saturn.


“Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.”

Our Sun and Moon

...He also made the stars.

There are many more examples from the bible.

Doesn't matter which religion people believe in, I simply believe in stars, planets are created for reason and we are the "Products" of our environment. We live under the cycle of Time from the Lights and Darkness.


What is the ninth sign from the Ascendant in your chart? Are any of the traditional seven planets placed in this sign? What signs/houses do they rule in your chart, and are any planets there? What sign and house is the traditional domicile ruler* located in?

I am Virgo ascendant 9th house is Taurus. There is no planet placed in this house, Venus is in Libra the 2nd house in whole sign, 1st house if in Placidus. 7th house cusp is Pisces. So by traditional astrology it is ruled by my 4th house Jupiter.

It rules my 2nd house Libra as well. My second house has Pluto and Saturn.

I have Jupiter in Sagittarius very tightly conjuncts my IC and South Node. As a result Jupiter and South Node square my ascendant and descendant, opposite my MC where north node tightly conjunct my MC.
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Last edited by poyi; 08-11-2013 at 07:55 PM.
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Unread 08-11-2013, 10:37 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

Poyi

bible is a book written by a certain small section of humanity millions of years after the creation of the earth......did they think they were first past the post? Or special to know how to explain it? A book written 4000 years ago purporting knowledge from millions if years ago is pants seeing as no science was involved...its hogwash imo .just fairytales or imaginings..the bible has wisdoms in it But then so do so many other books,but is full of cr ap in other ways...it is NOT the be all and end all on life, it was written by arrogant alpha males probably a few smoking a marijuana stick, whilst beating their wives, others worse, islam is worse in that respect 60 yr old men marrying 8 yr old children, god forbid

Ie the bible HAS NO MONOPOLY on truth morality righteousness in this day and age, we can see through its falseness, and its blatant eviil and ignorance sometimes,its based on fear and a horrid god, took jesuses teachings to set it all right not that he managed it

The ancient greek philosophers were wiser

You dont need dead idiots to rule your life or dictate in 2013

Why do you need a belief system from 4000 years ago? What credibility does it have apart from stupid kings giving it the go ahead?

if you wnt to keep up with the bible, the old testament is dead, its a pile of balls, jesus said listen to yourself not others, the answer is within you,basically jesus was saying dont be brainwashed and trust your own judgement,he was crucified for it, for telling people to think for themselves against the powers that be, no different today! Ahhistory repeats itself

for me people who believe the bible literally are stupid

Thatwas not to you poyi btw and i do believe in god, because i dont think a bunch of chemical reactions are God.....there must be an intelligence and a design...whichmeans a designer...my idea of designer of the beauty is not some judo christian islamic pathetic personage...the pathetic men who wrote the bible and the quran...failures and control freaks they practice to this day unfortunately and sad individuals believe their total GUFF

Last edited by *emma*; 08-11-2013 at 10:59 PM.
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Unread 08-11-2013, 10:50 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by *emma* View Post
Poyi

The bible is a book written by a certain small section of humanity millions of years after the creation of the earth......did they think they were first past the post? Or special to know how to explain it? A book written 4000 years ago purporting knowledge from millions if years ago is pants seeing as no science was involved...its hogwash imo ...the bible has wisdoms in it but is fukk of cr ap in other ways...it is NOT the be al and end all on life, it was written by arrogant alpha males probably a few smoking a marijuana stick, others worse

Ie the bible HAS NO MONOPOLY on truth morality righteousness in this day and age, we can see through its falseness, and its blatant evil, its based on fear and a horris god

The ancient greek philosophers were wiser
Haahaha emma, I am not specifically only into Christianity as I also see a lot of false in Christianity, Catholic and so on. There is no perfect religion. I am only using Bible to show how it actually fits with astrology from my point of views.

In fact, when we talk about religions then we already lost the pot. Being spiritual is more important. When I mean being spiritual that is your life fully committed to good course of other people's life. Every action in life, not based on your religious practices, what to eat, what to wear, when to wash your hair, how much money you donate to church, how often you go to church etc.

I have seen people cheated, and lied and be extreme greedy and called themselves Christians and lied about their tax to government. I have also see Monks driving expensive cars, and living a luxurious life and terrorists etc.

What I am trying to say here is If the God you believing in had not changed your life for a benefit of the world and for the people, plants, insects and animals in your life. Then the God you believed in has no power on saving you.

It is not necessary the God you believed in is not true God. It is more that your life is lifeless as you have not humble your heart and have self-awareness on our own weaknesses. What are the differences of being a human or animal, even animals can show compassion and they never take more than they need to survive.

The key of spirituality is to be aware of what am I doing now and am I helping myself to achieve a high self?

Am I assisting the people in my life to see hope and be strong when they face crisis?

Am I giving them comfort, practical helps and time as much as I could afford to?

Do I want to go beyond my mean as well?

Am I came to the understanding of you and I are united as a whole? The love I offer you today is the love I offered to myself?

Am I today becoming a better me than yesterday?
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Last edited by poyi; 08-11-2013 at 10:52 PM.
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Unread 08-11-2013, 11:44 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
In the divisional (ie harmonic) methods of Vedic astrology, an entire varga (divisional chart) is allocated for the delineation of the religious/spiritual relations affinities, proclivities and other factors involving the native: this is called the Vimsamsa chart (varga) and is the D20 chart of the natal (ie it is the 20th harmonic chart)...
dr. farr, what sources do you recommend if one wishes to study and understand Varga charts, know which ones correspond to what?
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Unread 08-12-2013, 02:44 AM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

I learned about them "directly" (from certain Jaimini adepts of Ponmudi forest, Kerala)-however some good elaborations can be found in Kumar's "Vargas: a Vedic Approach", and in Rath's anthology, "Varga Chakra"...
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Unread 08-12-2013, 06:15 AM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

I have virgo ascendant and my ninth house has jupiter in taurus.
My Jupiter is conjunct my MC and squaring my AC
I lean more on the gnostic and buddhist kind of teaching.I'm attracted to esoteric stuffs and the unknown ever since I could remember.
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Unread 08-12-2013, 05:19 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

My 9th house ruler, jupiter, is in aries 10th. Adopting someone else's beliefs isn't an option for me.
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Unread 08-13-2013, 03:20 AM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

Pisces is on the cusp of my Ninth. Mars occupies the house.

Although I am not formally religious, I have a deep interest in the topic. I like to read and learn about Religion. I understand quite easily even difficult religious-theological concepts. I take notice of links and relationships between various religious teachings and customs that are not so obvious to others. I can teach and explain to other people what Religion is and how its various aspects work. I can notice errors in explanations and opinions of a religious nature and feel motivated to correct them using the proper arguments.

Both rulers of Pisces are in my Fifth House. Religion is a source of enjoyment for me and I see its heart, the content versus the form of mere exoteric religiousness. Both planets are positioned in Sagittarius, another religious sign.

I am interested in all Religions, but the one I am most deeply involved with is Christianity, because I live in a traditionally Christian country and I was raised in a family with a long lineage of practicing Roman Catholics. The astrological sign associated with Christianity is Pisces.

Mars has its effect on this House besides the motivation to learn Religion. I am also interested in religious debates, apologetic.

According to the Roman astrologer Firmicus Maternus, a person who has Mars in the Ninth in the Signs of Jupiter is able to cast out demons from the possessed and this he accomplishes with his mere presence. So this is the placement of the exorcist. An interesting statement and not completely baseless.

Last edited by Carolus Optimus; 08-13-2013 at 03:22 AM.
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Unread 08-13-2013, 04:12 AM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

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Originally Posted by eternalautumn View Post
According to traditional astrology the ninth house rules religion and beliefs of a higher order.
That's a corrupted view.

We must follow Marcus Aurelius in Meditations Book 10...
This thing, what is it in itself, in its own constitution? What is its substance and material? And what its causal nature (or form)? And what is it doing in the world? And how long does it subsist?

The 9th House is Travel... as it relates to Wisdom & Knowledge, and Religion would be a sub-set of that, as would Ideology (which would include Philosophical and Political Beliefs), since both stem from Wisdom & Knowledge.

You follow?

Let's go back 9,000 years to circa 7000 BCE.

A Sumerian king has granted someone a charter to establish a settlement as a favor perhaps for loyal service or good deeds done. As a small child, you go there with your family as part of the settlers, and when you come of age, you are tasked with Beer & Wine-making.

What do you do?

You travel (there's that word) to a city that has an edifice that functions as an astronomical observatory combination administrative offices and repository of knowledge -- a library more or less (which Christian archeologists crow-barred into a "temple") -- where a guy called a "priest" (as translated by Christian archeologists) will instruct you in the knowledge you seek.

Perhaps you don't need instruction.....perhaps as a sheep or goat herder, you have issues with selective breeding...you're trying to breed a separate stock of white sheep, black sheep, and spotted sheep....but having some problems doing so. You'd travel (there's that word again) to a city or region where there was a "temple" with a "priest" who would instruct you on animal husbandry.

And if not on animal husbandry, then irrigation, or medicine, or surgery, or farming or agriculture, or writing, or astronomy, or math or some other science, or some form of engineering like ship-building, building construction or mining.

That...is how it was done for thousands of years.

When the Greeks finally emerged, what did the Greeks do?

The Greeks all traveled (there's that word again) to Egypt to study and learn.

You know Solon? Of course not, he's been dead for thousands of years, but he left "Greece" as a boy to travel (there's that word again) to Egypt, to study and learn. Later, he returned to Egypt specifically to the "temple" at Sais, where the curator of knowledge -- a "priest" -- told him, "You people have no history because certain perturbations in the Earth's cycle [meaning Earth's orbit] cause cataclysms."

All of the "great" "Greek" philosophers and "mathematicians" traveled (TTWA)to Egypt to study....except one.....Aristotle.

Aristotle and his idiotic beliefs caused more damage to Humanity than any other person, with the exception of John the Bishop of Rome. If it wasn't for those two morons, we'd have landed on the Moon 500 years ago.

The whole point of this, is that concepts and ideas evolve over time.

Originally, everyone, including the Hebrews were polytheists. You can see that in elohim...the 'im' suffix indicates plural. Like all other cultures and civilizations -- at least those in the Mesopotamian region -- the Hebrews gravitate towards henotheism --- the elevation of a 'god' over a group of gods. The Hebrews worshiped the Ugaritic Pantheon and ultimately recognized Yahweh as supreme. Then later, as the idea of a 'national god' arises, the Hebrews become monaltrists ---- worshiping one god to the exclusion of all other gods....and there are other gods (at least according to the Hebrews). With the rise of Islam, the Hebrews eventually become monotheists about 1,300 year ago circa 700 CE or so. The Moors in Spain had an huge influence on Hebrew theology and the conversion to monotheism.

Other concepts and ideas parallel those developments.

Why does Yahweh murder everyone in cold blood?

Because Yahweh has no choice --- there is no After-life....there is no Heaven.....there is no Hell.

If Yahweh wants to reward you, then he must do that in the "Here & Now," because once you die, Yahweh is powerless to do anything. Likewise, if Yahweh wants to punish you, he must also do that in the "Here & Now" because once you're dead and gone, Yahweh is powerless to punish you.

It is the "Greeks" who invent/create Hell based on their misunderstanding of ancient texts, and with extremely heavy influence on Hebrew culture, the Hebrews eventually adopt a concept of an After-life. In fact, "Greek" culture was so pervasive, that the Septuagint was written in the Greek language, because the overwhelming vast majority of Hebrews spoke Greek, and not [Classical Biblical] Hebrew.

And then, too, theological conflicts develop over the same period.

If you obey Yahweh and keep his covenant, then you will be rewarded.

What happens in Reality™?

In Reality™ the people who obey Yahweh suffer incredible misfortunes and are repeatedly "punished" with disease, sorrow, loss of wealth or material possessions and so on, while those who blatantly disobey Yahweh are handsomely and richly rewarded, suffering nothing at all.

Nowhere is that more clear than with King Manasseh, who was (apparently) the most wicked king in Hebrew history, but who suffered nothing, was enriched and rewarded with great prosperity and died peacefully in his sleep at a ripe old age.

Contrast that with King Josiah -- alleged to be the most righteous king in Hebrew history -- who is slain in battle against the Egyptians; his body drug about and paraded around; the Hebrew army is totally annihilated; and Jerusalem is sacked and the Temple is "violated."

To add insult to injury, not long after that, the Kingdom of Judah is over-run; Jerusalem is destroyed; the Temple is destroyed; and the Hebrews are exiled and taken away as slaves.

How does one explain that theologically?

The Hebrews cannot, so the end up re-writing huge sections of their texts to reflect changes in theology.

And it doesn't end there. By the time the days of the Latter Prophets come to be, how do you please Yahweh? Keeping the covenants? Nope. Keeping the Commandments? Nope. You please Yahweh through Social Justice --- taking care of the elderly, the infirm, the widows, the orphans and such.

And the most amazing thing is that if the Kingdom of Israel is not destroyed, then the "Bible" as you all know it never exists.....in fact, it's unlikely Christianity would even exist.

You have two totally separate different religious traditions evolving. One under the Mosaic Priesthood --- the actual blood-descendants of X-Moses --- in the Kingdom of Israel, and then one under the Aaronid Priesthood -- the blood descendants of Aaron -- in the Kingdom of Judah.

When the Kingdom of Israel is destroyed and the Israelites exiled, the intelligentsia flees to Jerusalem in the Kingdom of Judah.

How do you resolve this problem of two totally separate religious traditions?

Create a national unity document --- that's what Exodus, Leviticus and Numbers are....they're a set, a trilogy, written together to merge the two different religious traditions of the North and South.

One group --- the Aaronid Priesthood --- is not happy with this arrangement, and eventually they massacre the Mosaic priests, killing all of them.....except one who escapes the massacre.

Then the Aaronid Priests, well, Jeremiah actually, forges a new document you all know as Deuteronomy.

Deuteronomy represents an wholesale change in theology --- altars are banned; all temples except for The Temple (at Jerusalem) are banned; all sacrifices are banned, except those in the The Temple; the style and type of sacrifices, including the entire ritual of sacrifice is changed, and so on.

For the next 1,000 years -- at least in the Western World --- nothing changes as one is still required to travel (TTWA) to a "religious" facility to gain knowledge and receive instruction.

Over that same time, it also becomes vogue to travel (TTWA) on a pilgrimage to a religious facility of some sort, and so it's easy to see how religion came to be associated with the 9th House.

This becomes ingrained in society even after the collapse of the Western Roman Empire. If you want to be educated, or to learn, you must travel (TTWA) to a monastery or abbey to receive instruction from religious personnel. The idea of education sponsored or provided through the clergy also arises in Islam, and it continues in Christianity even after the Great Schism between the Papacy and the Orthodox.

Education at monasteries and abbeys evolves into education at religious-based universities run by clergy, and even after the Reformation it continues, only now you have Catholic universities and Protestant universities.

Government-based secular learning institutions, such as public schools are a very recent development.

No doubt, there's a relationship between travel and religion and the acquisition of knowledge and wisdom and learning. They are for the most part inextricably linked.

You can blame the Arabs, Persians and Latins for over-emphasizing the 9th House in the context of religion, and then the later post-Reformation crowd who effectively carved it into stone.
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  #21  
Unread 08-13-2013, 04:44 AM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

Of course one could look at spirituality as a journey, religion as a journey from individuality to universality, life as a road upon which the soul travels toward the Infinite...9th house = travels, journeys, yes: ALL kinds of them!
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Unread 08-13-2013, 05:18 AM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalautumn View Post
What are your religious...views?
Areligious; an atheist...religion is of no value or benefit....it is effectively legalized brain-washing, not to mention incredibly divisive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalautumn View Post
What are your spiritual...views?
Spirituality and Religion are not mutually exclusive per se, but they are not synonymous.
All humans are spiritual beings by nature, but not all humans are religious beings.
I'm extremely spiritual, especially in the woods or at the sea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalautumn View Post
What are your philosophical views?
I'm a naturalist....Natural Laws....everything seeks equilibrium, no matter what it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalautumn View Post
Do you believe in god?
No, I'm way too intelligent for that, and besides....my standard of ethics and morals are superior to any god-thing that has ever been alleged to exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalautumn View Post
How does astrology fit into your system of belief?
Fits perfectly. It's all natural, based on math and science.
I'm also a Determinist. You have no Free Will -- except of the minutia of your life, and even that is debatable...I would argue you don't even have Free Will over the minutia, since that is programmed from birth.
Do you want to see something really stupid?
Free Will Moron: "You have Free Will....hey, let's check your Transits and Progressions and Solar Arcs....to see what happened to you in the Past."

That's the Great Irony....quite the Paradox.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalautumn View Post
What is the ninth sign from the Ascendant in your chart?
Cancer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalautumn View Post
Are any of the traditional seven planets placed in this sign?
Venus. It's a Diurnal Chart, so Venus is not in-Sect, but Venus is in a Feminine Quadrant and Feminine Sign.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalautumn View Post
What sign and house is the traditional domicile ruler* located in?
Venus at 4° Cancer is in an applying to trine to Jupiter at 10° Pisces. Cancer is of course the Exaltation of Jupiter who receives Venus, and Pisces is the Exaltation of Venus who receives Jupiter.

Moon at 7° Pisces is joining Jupiter.
Sun at 5° Gemini is in an applying square to Jupiter. Both Saturn and Mars are in aversion to Moon/Jupiter.
Venus is in aversion to Saturn, but is square by Sign to Mars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalautumn View Post
What signs/houses do they rule in your chart, and are any planets there?
Venus rules the empty Libra 12th House, and the empty Taurus 7th House.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalautumn View Post
I follow no religion or philosophy but am deeply interested in them all. I believe in god as far as I believe that it seems logical that the universe has a source, and that we could call that source god, but anything beyond that is improvisation. I believe in astrology because I believe that everything in our universe has a common source, and is therefore connected and unified, and that therefore looking to the macrocosm can inform us of the microcosm. It is in our nature to find patterns and I believe this is important in and of itself.
Okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalautumn View Post
The ninth sign in my chart is Cancer, with Jupiter there, exalted. Jupiter rules the second and fifth houses, and no planets are placed there. The Moon is in the tenth house, conjunct the Midheaven, in Leo.
Interesting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by keylime View Post
...just seems like another way for people to separate themselves from others when we should be pulling together...bit of a contradiction I think.
No contradictions there.
Humans cannot function without an hierarchical structure.

That Humans would gravitate into hierarchical groups is no surprise.

That Humans would gravitate into hierarchical groups with interests, goals and agendas similar to each is no surprise either.
What is surprising is that you don't seem understand that the interests and goals of such groups often conflict resulting in harm to one or the other, or both, whether it is a family, a clan, a street, a neighborhood, a community, a city, county or State.
Quote:
Originally Posted by keylime View Post
I tend to look at the 9th as more of higher learning, philosophy,....
Sure. Religion is a subset of learning, knowledge, wisdom and philosophy, but it's absurd to for people to suggest that it is primarily religion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keylime View Post
...9th sign from Asc is (if you count the asc sign) Cancer. I am still learning about traditional....
Really? Well, so far you're learning well.

The Sign always over-rules, regardless of the House System used.

When you start doing charts, you'll see how important it is to make the distinction between the MC falling in the 11th Sign, or the 10th Sign or the 9th Sign.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *emma* View Post
i dont think the chart of anyone can answer this, it is beyond the chart, a chart may indicate trends and ways of trends, but never to a specific place
Fortunately, there are those of us who are more knowledgeable and experienced to guide others and in this matter.
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  #23  
Unread 08-13-2013, 06:06 AM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post
That's a corrupted view.

...

Aristotle and his idiotic beliefs caused more damage to Humanity than any other person, with the exception of John the Bishop of Rome. If it wasn't for those two morons, we'd have landed on the Moon 500 years ago.

......
Bob how did you came up with this theory? Where do u base this?
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  #24  
Unread 08-13-2013, 12:18 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post
That's a corrupted view.

Aristotle and his idiotic beliefs caused more damage to Humanity than any other person, with the exception of John the Bishop of Rome. If it wasn't for those two morons, we'd have landed on the Moon 500 years ago
Quite so

For example:


QUOTE

'....The celestial sphere is a convenient fiction to locate objects in the sky. However, the Greek philosopher Aristotle proposed that the heavens were LITERALLY composed of 55 concentric, crystalline spheres to which the celestial objects were attached and which rotated at different velocities - but the angular velocity was constant for a given sphere - with the Earth at the center.

The following figure illustrates the ordering of the spheres to which the Sun, Moon, and visible planets were attached.
The diagram is not to scale, and the planets are aligned for convenience in illustration; generally they were distributed around the spheres....'



'….Additional "buffering" spheres between those illustrated included sphere of the stars, beyond the ones shown for the planets: finally there was an outermost sphere that was the domain of the "Prime Mover" - who Aristotle said caused outermost sphere to rotate at constant angular velocity - the motion imparted sphere to sphere - causing the whole thing to rotate. By adjusting velocities of these concentric spheres, many features of planetary motion could be explained. BUT troubling observations of varying planetary brightness and retrograde motion could not be accommodated: the spheres moved with constant angular velocity, and the objects attached to them were always the same distance from earth because they moved on spheres with the earth at the center.....'


ENTER CENTER STAGE
MATHEMATICIAN AND ASTRONOMER CLAUDIUS PTOLEMY


'....Ptolemy 'solved' these anomalies in the form of a mad, but clever proposal that planets were attached - not to concentric spheres themselves - but to circles attached to the concentric spheres, called "Epicycles": the concentric spheres to which they were attached were termed the "Deferents".

Then, the centers of the epicycles executed uniform circular motion as they went around the deferent at uniform angular velocity, and at the same time the epicyles - to which the planets were attached - executed their own uniform circular motion.


Ptolemy's tortured model shows the idea of uniform circular motion is saved - at least in some sense - by this scheme, and it allows a description of retrograde motion and varying planetary brightness...'

VIEW ANIMATION/ILLUSTRATION OF
THE UNIVERSE OF ARISTOTLE AND PTOLEMY AT
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/l...aristotle.html
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  #25  
Unread 08-13-2013, 02:11 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

I think the thing to think about with the 9th house is it's basic meaning - which, in my view, is not about travel per se, nor about religion per se, but instead about that which broadens the mind or enriches our experience. Religious and travel are, traditionally at least, the most obvious examples of this, as is higher education. They all fall under this spectrum. It can be tempting to think that the 9th is more about religion, or more about travel, but really the basic principle is not, those are just examples.

"What are your religious/spiritual/philosophical views? "

Far too complex and broad to fit into a post here. But the basics would be to try to be compassionate to others, and to not attach to impermanence.

"Do you believe in god? "

Yes, of a sort.

"How does astrology fit into your system of belief?"

Often smoothly. It is a tool, and like all tools it has specific uses, I utilise that tool for often very practical purposes according to my understanding of the world around me as dictated by my philosophy.
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