Harmonics

dr. farr

Well-known member
Seems like the Greco/Roman astrologers also had a kind of "harmonics" in their application of the dodekatemorion principle, ie, every planet or other horoscopic point was delineated not only in its "place" but also in the "place" where its dodek falls: the dominant dodek method was the Egyptian, where the original place of planet, Lot or other horoscopic point was multiplied by 12 to find its dodek (apparently, its 12th harmonic) Paulus of Alexandria used a mulitplier of 13 to find the dodek (a 13h harmonic), and I have made most use of the Pauline dodek for these investigations...
 

Alice McDermott

Well-known member
Seems like the Greco/Roman astrologers also had a kind of "harmonics" in their application of the dodekatemorion principle, ie, every planet or other horoscopic point was delineated not only in its "place" but also in the "place" where its dodek falls: the dominant dodek method was the Egyptian, where the original place of planet, Lot or other horoscopic point was multiplied by 12 to find its dodek (apparently, its 12th harmonic) Paulus of Alexandria used a mulitplier of 13 to find the dodek (a 13h harmonic), and I have made most use of the Pauline dodek for these investigations...

Yes, ancient astrologers in both the western and vedic traditions seemed to have quite extensively used harmonics.

I was enthralled to read on the Chris Brennan forum that astrologers in the far past were also working with duad degrees :surprised::surprised: they were calculating them by hand - at least, before Solar Fire made the facility available, I had a calculator to help me.

There really is nothing new under the sun. I thought I had discovered duad degrees, but what I seem to have done is re-discover this technique. Now we have programs that can quickly calculate them it is much easier to see how powerful they are in genetic astrology, birth timing etc.

Alice
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Yes, ancient astrologers in both the western and vedic traditions seemed to have quite extensively used harmonics. I was enthralled to read on the Chris Brennan forum that astrologers in the far past were also working with duad degrees :surprised::surprised: they were calculating them by hand - at least, before Solar Fire made the facility available, I had a calculator to help me. There really is nothing new under the sun. I thought I had discovered duad degrees, but what I seem to have done is re-discover this technique. Now we have programs that can quickly calculate them it is much easier to see how powerful they are in genetic astrology, birth timing etc. Alice

link to an article on the over two thousand year old dwad technique http://www.astrologysoftware.com/resources/articles/getarticle.asp?ID=165 aka dodecatemories that makes interesting reading! :smile:
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
Actually the author of the article in the above link, is applying Porphyry's "dodecatemory of the Moon" technique, to other planets in addition to the Moon (this technique is not that of Manilius-which historical fact is made clear by the translators of Manilius "Astronomica": regardless of this, however, this specific dodecatemory technique was an important one in Greco/Roman astrology, and seems to have been first elaborated -or at least first described in the remaining extant literature of the time-by Porphyry)
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
Thought I would add some clarifications about the words "dodekatemorion", "duodenary", "duad/dwad", "dodecatemory"-because a good deal of confusion exists about what these strange words refer to, which often leads to the same term being applied to different things!

-First: "dodekatemorion" (sometimes "dodekatemoria" is used)
This term has 2 meanings, both actually being correct

:Meaning #1: sign 1/12ths, ie, 2.5 degree areas of a sign, each sign having 12 such divisions (this is the meaning of the Vedic word "dwadashama" as well, and is also the most common meaning of the term "dwad")

: Meaning #2: a TECHNIQUE for determining the "ramification place" of a planet or other horoscopic element: there are two forms of this technique

Form #1 (known as Egyptian dodekatemorion; its the most commonly followed of these techniques): multiply the place of the planet or other horoscopic point by 12; starting with the original sign placement of the panet or other horoscopic point, subtract 30 degrees from the result until you cannot subtract by 30 any more: what is leftover is the degree placement-the "dodek"=of the planet or other horoscopic point

Form #2 (known as Pauline dodekatemorion; rarely practiced over the past 1200 years): multiply the place of the planet or other horoscopic point by 13, and then proceed exactly as in Form #1 to find the "dodek" (notice that although a multiplier factor of 13 is used it is still referred to as "dodekatemorion", even though that word correctly refers to something to do with "twelves")



Next: "duodenary", "duodenaries" (plural)

This term has the same meaning as Meaning #1 under "dodekatemorion", ie, the 1/12th area of a sign (and therefore is synonymous with the terms "dwad" and "dwadashama")


Next: "duad", "duads" (plural)
Can have 2 meanings:

Meaning #1: same as duodenary, dwad, ie, the 1/12th area of a sign

Meaning #2: same as Meaning #2 for "dodekatemorion", above, ie, reference to the point found by application of either Egyptian or (rarely) Pauline dodekatemorion techniques, as described above



Finally, "dodecatemory", "dodecatemories" (plural)
This refers to an entirely different TECHNIQUE than either Egyptian or Pauline dodekatemorion, and is also a different concept than that of sign 1/12ths; this technique was widely used in Greco/Roman astrology, mostly in reference to finding the "dodecatemory of the Moon", and was described by Porphyry in the 3rd century AD; this distinct technique is outlined in the introduction to Manilius "Astronomica", and, applied to planets other than the Moon, is outlined in the reference link given by JUPITERASC in an earlier post to this thread.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Thought I would add some clarifications about the words "dodekatemorion", "duodenary", "duad/dwad", "dodecatemory"-because a good deal of confusion exists about what these strange words refer to, which often leads to the same term being applied to different things!

-First: "dodekatemorion" (sometimes "dodekatemoria" is used)
This term has 2 meanings, both actually being correct

:Meaning #1: sign 1/12ths, ie, 2.5 degree areas of a sign, each sign having 12 such divisions (this is the meaning of the Vedic word "dwadashama" as well, and is also the most common meaning of the term "dwad")

: Meaning #2: a TECHNIQUE for determining the "ramification place" of a planet or other horoscopic element: there are two forms of this technique

Form #1 (known as Egyptian dodekatemorion; its the most commonly followed of these techniques): multiply the place of the planet or other horoscopic point by 12; starting with the original sign placement of the panet or other horoscopic point, subtract 30 degrees from the result until you cannot subtract by 30 any more: what is leftover is the degree placement-the "dodek"=of the planet or other horoscopic point

Form #2 (known as Pauline dodekatemorion; rarely practiced over the past 1200 years): multiply the place of the planet or other horoscopic point by 13, and then proceed exactly as in Form #1 to find the "dodek" (notice that although a multiplier factor of 13 is used it is still referred to as "dodekatemorion", even though that word correctly refers to something to do with "twelves")

Next: "duodenary", "duodenaries" (plural) This term has the same meaning as Meaning #1 under "dodekatemorion", ie, the 1/12th area of a sign (and therefore is synonymous with the terms "dwad" and "dwadashama")

Next: "duad", "duads" (plural) Can have 2 meanings:

Meaning #1: same as duodenary, dwad, ie, the 1/12th area of a sign

Meaning #2: same as Meaning #2 for "dodekatemorion", above, ie, reference to the point found by application of either Egyptian or (rarely) Pauline dodekatemorion techniques, as described above

Finally, "dodecatemory", "dodecatemories" (plural)
This refers to an entirely different TECHNIQUE than either Egyptian or Pauline dodekatemorion, and is also a different concept than that of sign 1/12ths; this technique was widely used in Greco/Roman astrology, mostly in reference to finding the "dodecatemory of the Moon", and was described by Porphyry in the 3rd century AD; this distinct technique is outlined in the introduction to Manilius "Astronomica", and, applied to planets other than the Moon, is outlined in the reference link given by JUPITERASC in an earlier post to this thread.

Thank you very much dr. farr – as ever you have thoughtfully provided expert clarification on this matter :smile: With reference to the root meanings of the word 'duad' here is an interesting note from the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
duad
n.
A unit of two objects; a pair.
[Greek duas, duad-, two, from duo; see dwo- in Indo-European roots.]

and from Collins English Dictionary:
duad
n
a rare word for pair
[from Greek duas two, a pair]

and an online Thesaurus of Synonyms and Related Words states
Noun
duad - two items of the same kind
for which the following synonyms or related words are provided: couplet, distich, duet, duo, dyad, twain, twosome, brace, pair, span, yoke, couple, fellow, mate - one of a pair; "he lost the mate to his shoe"; "one eye was blue but its fellow was brown"
 

Fulcrum

Well-known member
The Axial Harmonics site has some really excellent work on the different harmonics. You can access it here: http://harmonics.50megs.com/Introduction.html

Alice

Wow, I'll say. Some deep stuff in there. Thanks for that.

At the risk of cross-posting—I'm still finding my way around the fora, so please forgive me if this steps on any toes—I asked this question and posted this graphic in another thread here where some of you were discussing the Yod. Maybe a mod can move this to a more appropriate spot, if this isn't it either?

Anyway, I found this in my 4th harmonic chart. I'm inclined to think it's Chiron (my "wounded healer" and, according to the Magi, my romance significator) and Juno (my long-term relationship significator) ganging up on Mercury (communications) to force me to do something that doesn't really come naturally to me regarding my relations with the fairer gender. Am I way off the mark?

Fulcrum takes cover behind some nearby rocks and waits for the anti-Magi contingent to begin pelting him with rotten produce

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=23714&d=1320128222
 
Although I tried to (temporarily) stuff my Virgo South Node in a burlap sack, it found a clever way of escaping and urged me to create this new board about harmonics instead of risking off-topic posting.

This question is for Radu, starting from where the 11:11 Phenonemon Board left off:



Aquarian Maverick

I would be extremely interested to find out if there are any connections to numerology and astrology.

What I would like to see is a chart comparison between Hitler and Romney, being they are a mirrored match using forward/reverse numerology.

Hitler = 72/90
Romney = 90/72

I have this feeling that Romney is here to complete the 3rd world war.

Obama's numbers are as cold as they get, no interesting matches using any of his names.

Ray Mabus has very hot numbers, as does Putin.

It would be interesting to see the astrology between these two men:

Raymond Mabus = 146/178
Sergei Ivanov = 146/178 (former Minister of Defense, and current Chief of Staff in Russia)

___________________________________

Speaking of Mabus, what has really surprised the heck out of me is how everybody completely missed the solid Nostradamus hit about July 1999, and the rise of Hu Jintao, when he was given the task of persecuting Falun Gong in China. Falun Gong (Law Wheel Practice) people are being used for medical experiments in China, reminiscent of WWII atrocities. Jintao is a f*cking monster.
 

Krewster

Well-known member
Anyone still around...?

Demystifying harmonics is easy to do by one simple step evidently unavailable to the creators of the system: just tweak your natal chart aspect set to display some/most of the minor aspects mixed-in with the majors.

Demystifying each minor aspect is easy (for the ones which are double/half a major aspect) and hard for the others (e.g., 5, 7, 9 and 11).

Along the way, numerology-based analogies reliant on properties of numbers which seem to be the arbitrary result of humanity having chosen the decimal system may be false friends.
 

ScorpioCrow

Well-known member
My username adds up to 64 and here's my 64th harmonic chart:

AC 02:gemini: (equal houses)
:sun:05:capricorn:
:moon:29:cancer: (there's that confounded 29th degree again!)
:mercury:05:leo:
:venus:17:aquarius:
:mars:29:taurus:
:jupiter:20:cancer:
:saturn:13:aries: (same sign as natal)
:uranus:07:taurus:
:neptune:20:virgo:
:pluto:27:aries:
:chiron:24:scorpio: (same sign as natal)

STRANGELY North & South nodes are at SAME DEGREE SAME MINUTE (partile conjunction) of 20:scorpio:57 perhaps indicating a very similar past life to this one...

Oops, just realized other harmonic charts (though not all) do that.
 
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Venusmagic89

Well-known member
Just some info on Harminic charts.
The Harmonic Charts Of Jyotish, Vedic Astrology
written by Jai Maharaj​
Harmonics have always been considered of great importance in Vedic astrology. For example, the ninth harmonic chart, the Navaunsh Varg: (some people write it as "Navamsa"), is very significant in relation to the Moon. This chart is always kept alongside the main Rashi chart when an interpretive report is being written. One derives from it the latent factors operative throughout a person's own and married life.
Ancient sage-scientists determined the relationships between planetary `harmonics' and human affairs and their causative factors. Practitioners of traditional astrology draw from these empirical data, available in the form of Sanskrit verses, in service to their clients.
The modern urge to satisfy the curiosity about the how's and why's of natural laws is often considered a necessity by some. To them, a science is a science only if it can gain entrance through their self-defined gates of intellect. This is one of the chief limiting factors responsible for the current disasters modern science has wrought on mankind, creating more problems than it attempts to solve.
Dr. Percy Seymour, a professor of astronomy in Plymouth, U.K. has his own way of explaining why `harmonics' work. According to him, the Navaunsh chart of Vedic astrology works, for instance, because of the magnetic field of the Moon. Basically, the magnetic field of Earth is reflecting how the planets are moving around the Sun and even how the Earth is moving around the Sun. So, Earth's magnetic field is resonating. Added to this, as the Moon goes around the Earth it affects the tides not only in the ocean but also in the magnetosphere. These have higher-order harmonics and Dr. Seymour's idea of all these tunes being played by the planets on the magnetic field of the Earth naturally gives rise to harmonics.
Percy Seymour then attempts to establish a connection between our electric-current based nervous system and the harmonic fluctuations in the geomagnetic field. So, the complex tunes played by the planets in our magnetic environment affect each one of us in a unique manner -- as if we don't always listen to the whole symphony but only respond to certain melodies. According to Seymour, the way we listen to the selected portions depends on our genetic peculiarities which are themselves related to the harmonics created by the planetary orchestra. Hence, predictions of how we may respond to future planetary positions are possible.
These Varg:, or charts, have been continuously used in Vedic astrology for millennia. The list contains the most commonly used ones of all with a brief note about their application:
Division Used for Determining
Natal Rashi: 1 Overall considerations
Hora (from the Sanskrit
word Ahoratr): 1/2 Personality; wealth, etc.
Drekkan: 1/3 Relationship with siblings
Chaturthaunsh: 1/4 Fixed property, assets, fortune
Saptaunsh: 1/7 Children, extended progeny
Navaunsh: 1/9 Latent Karmic details, marriage
Dashaunsh: 1/10 Power, heroism, career, etc.
Dwadashaunsh: 1/12 Parental, grand-parental factors
Shodashaunsh: 1/16 Means of travel, etc.
Vimshaunsh: 1/20 Karmic seeding, spiritual actions
Chaturvimshaunsh: 1/24 Intellectual pursuits, education
Saptavimshaunsh: 1/27 Special, variable hidden powers
Trimshaunsh: 1/30 Mainly used for females
Swavedaunsh: 1/40 Various attainments
Akshavedaunsh: 1/45 Various achievements
Shashtyaunsh: 1/60 All levels of human activity
Nadi: 1/150 Extremely refined characteristics

Can you tell me how houses work in Vargas? Some places ive read houses or signs dont matter in harmonics, other places I've read aspects dont matter but I would like to explore all of these facets of the harmonics to see for myself how they work.

In Vedic astrology, the info ive dug up on Vargas puts a huge focus on what houses and signs the planets fall into in the charts. I'm having trouble creating the houses though, since generating an AD harmonic chart (using sidereel or tropical) does not give house boundaries.
Do you take whichever sign is the ASC in the varga, for example, if Aries is the ASC would any planet in Aries be in 1st house? (Even if ASC is 26 Aries and planet is 0 Aries?) Or would you go by ASC degree? So 26 Ar-25 Tau is 1st house, 26 Tau-25 Gem is 2nd house, etc.

Thanks!
 
Although I tried to (temporarily) stuff my Virgo South Node in a burlap sack, it found a clever way of escaping and urged me to create this new board about harmonics instead of risking off-topic posting.

This question is for Radu, starting from where the 11:11 Phenonemon Board left off:



Aquarian Maverick
Hi there, does anyone know how to get the chart up in Solar fire with all the harmonics so you can see a tally chart of which harmonic is strongest? I notice that the software "Sirius" does this , but can not see a way in SF to this, other than selecting them individually, 2, 3, 4 etc.
 

Humanitarian

Well-known member
Hi there, does anyone know how to get the chart up in Solar fire with all the harmonics so you can see a tally chart of which harmonic is strongest? I notice that the software "Sirius" does this , but can not see a way in SF to this, other than selecting them individually, 2, 3, 4 etc.
astro.com also does harmonic charts!
 
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