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  #1  
Unread 05-14-2013, 08:40 PM
geminimoon83 geminimoon83 is offline
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Composite chart or synastry?

I have become great friends with an Aquarius Sun guy and out of curiousity ran a birth chart for him. I am Taurus Sun and despite square suns we hit it off instantly, sometimes talking 4 hours a day. Communication has been so great and our similarities are like nothing I've ever experienced. Anyway, when I ran his chart I couldn't believe it. We both are Gemini moons and Capricorn rising, both have Venus in water signs, and many of our houses are in the same sign. Our similarities go back as far as childhood and even how our parents named us. It's almost creepy in a way. I did a composite chart and Saturn is in our 7th house. I've researched that and come up with mixed views. Some say it's positive, some negative. ( I was using default house system for this chart so that could be off.) Could someone explain the difference between Synastry charts and Composite charts? I know synastry is more like one chart on another and how they relate. We do have a LOT of negative aspects... I'll post the synastry chart. What are some of the strongest points in a synastry or composite chart that can "overcome" squares and oppositions? Could identical moon and ascendants help?

Thanks!
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Unread 05-14-2013, 10:30 PM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: Composite chart or synastry?

A synastry chart allows you to compare the significant parts of yourself that either mesh or antagonize the other person.

A composite chart is only a chart of the abstract concept of the relationship itself, not of either of the two of you. Its kind of hard to conceptualize, but it will show you the challenges that your partnership will encounter from the world OUTSIDE of the two of you, but not your inner world between you.

Ivy Goldstein Jacobson said that unless the the rulers of the ASC in both charts had a ptolemaic aspect with each other(see a double chart), or both Mars in a double chart, had an aspect to each other, then it would not be possible to get a really accurate composite chart.

I'm not exactly sure of your question.
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  #3  
Unread 05-14-2013, 10:55 PM
geminimoon83 geminimoon83 is offline
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Re: Composite chart or synastry?

Thanks, Zarathu. I was mostly interested in which chart I should use, but will go with synastry from now on. Secondly, I was wondering if sharing the same moon and rising signs strengthens a relationship or is it more of a negative thing since the two would be so alike?
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Unread 05-15-2013, 01:12 AM
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Re: Composite chart or synastry?

Composite chart works when you know the exact time of birth for both parties. Saturn in the 7th means a long term relationship but it needs strong aspects to the personal planets for endurance. Synastry is very confusing and contradictory but comparing Moons and rising sign is a good idea. He is very airy and will not want to be in a too heavy relationship and needs variety and freedom. Dont try to hem him in. Moon in Gemini is very chatty and no wonder you communicate well that way.

remember the aspects are only small with composite and synastry. Half of what they would be normally, so no more than 3 degrees, may be 4 for Sun and Moon. Remember Taurus wants stability and security and Aquarius prefers experimentation, freedom and is basically quite unconventional in lots of ways. However the midpoint would fall in Aries which suits the Gemini Moon..... It does not do to overanalyse matters of love and the heart as logic often does not come into it all. Sometimes there are things to work out, and even difficult aspects will be involved.
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Last edited by Claire19; 05-15-2013 at 01:15 AM.
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Unread 05-15-2013, 01:12 AM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: Composite chart or synastry?

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Originally Posted by geminimoon83 View Post
Thanks, Zarathu. I was mostly interested in which chart I should use, but will go with synastry from now on. Secondly, I was wondering if sharing the same moon and rising signs strengthens a relationship or is it more of a negative thing since the two would be so alike?
There are lots and lots of measurements for this. My workbook sections on relationship analysis comprise of more the 25 pages of areas of looking.

Noel Tyl wrote a book where he identified 4 of these areas:

1. the nodal Axis(there was a recent post here on that)

2. the Sun/Moon need patterns combined

3. One chart with a midpoint between the other chart's two planets

4. The moon Marriage pattern-- Moon in certain signs will have requirement for certain type of mate. For example, assuming that YOU are the Gemini Moon: you would be looking for a mate but needing a good cerebral base for a good marriage, a union which diversity, thought, effervescent discussion and a certain amount of indecision will be appreciated. My daughter has a Gemini Moon, and this is certainly true.

I have an Aries Moon. The note says that I married to be important, and that my partner had to offer an ego reflection for me that is strong, dramatic, and credible. I'll have been married for 40 years in about 11 days, and I don't find that to be quite true, but then again I don't have a particularly strong Moon natally. However, I'm not sure that going back 40 years, it might not have been closer to that reality.
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  #6  
Unread 05-16-2013, 08:53 PM
geminimoon83 geminimoon83 is offline
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Re: Composite chart or synastry?

Zarathu: I'm interested in the workbook you mentioned. Sounds interesting.
I read somewhere that having same houses strengthens the bond in a friendship/relationship. This is the first person I've ever shared houses with and one of the few I've known with the same moon. I am going to try to find the post on here about nodal axis.
In our particular "friendship" we share Gemini moons (and Cap rising). Oh my, how we can spend hours talking. I don't notice differences between Sun like I have with other Aquarians.
Claire19: I agree with you. Not all things in love can be overanalyzed. Or in any relationship really. A lot goes into making us who we are and how we relate to others. I've known people who had charts more in harmony with mine and the relationship didn't last. I will say I have personally found comparing moon signs to work sometimes better than comparing Sun signs, but then I am still just a student of astrology and have a lot to learn.
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Unread 05-17-2013, 11:01 PM
rahu rahu is offline
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Re: Composite chart or synastry?

hi geminimoon83

i looked at your composite with a few more symbols.

first off the moon is conjunct it's node within 6 minute of arc degrees. this shows that you and he have very similar emotional responses and at times you seem to take the same breath. it gives an inherent intuitive connection.
juno is square to the moon showing that your really feel close to him especially in a serious and longterm manner.with ceres trine to the moon , you have feelings of caring and nurturing him.
but with neptune opposed to the moon/venus midpoint you are in danger of looking at him thru rose colored glasses, as neptune square to juno bodes ill for a serious relationship as there are complication or decepion that will make this unlikely.
the chart is actually not very romantic beside the inherent psychic connection wit the moon and node.
mars is conjuct to chiron and these are square to the vertex. this shows that he is not the "type' of guy you regularly are attracted to . he is very brash and "in your face" type of guy.
the composite shows saturn conjunct to pluto which is not favoable for emotional intimacy as it is very closed off. though here with saturn/pluto sextile to neptune and trine to the moon, these aspects of emotional distance may be overcome by the innate emotional connection between you. moon trine to satrun is favorable as i shows an underlying harmony, but it does not guarantee this stability will be continous.
but this favorable sextile/trine pattern is up against a very selfish square as saturn/poluto are square to orcus and nessus. this is just very domineering and controlling ,not o mention it is extremely selfish.so selfish that rarely will this lead to a relationship of equal emotional partners. this shows the lack of openess is very deep .

the venus/mars midpoint is opposed to the the neptune/jupiter midpoint which shows ,again, not all is above board.often this shows economic problems in the background and is somewhat duplicitic in itself.

the venus/moon midpoint is opposed to neptune.this again is an aspect of emotional complexity wit a likelyhood of deceptive qualitities. .it certainly adds to he idealistic and romantic feeling between you but ese can be fleeting at best.
the moon/sun midpoint is opposed to the uranus/jupiter conjunction which shows the high energy when you are toehr , but it is a pattern of instabiltiy and breakup. so as tyour moon/sun midpointis involved ,it shows that the relationship will not have the duration that the emotional depth you feel for him would lead you to believe.

sedna and vesta are square to lilth , so there is a feeling of devotion ,respect and truthfulness that strikes you at you deepest emotional sensitivities.
on the other hand the eros/psyche midpoint is opposed to orcus/nessus . this is a idealistic romantic feeling towd an undeserving partner, as you etheric love does not reach him at all.
the moon conjuct i's node is here a dangerous aspec as you emotions are so full and real that you have not sense of his selfishness and conceit.

it is clear thatyour mental connection is as you have said .your minds work overtime .and very incisive and penetrating thoughts have passed between you.when you talk you talk of issues of substanc eand depth, though the conversations . though you may have met early. the mental connection really took off in late february and has conined with this intensity since then.
i do get a feeling that your conversation have become a little bit more contentious recently. it may be that you are starting to find ouit tha onsome issues you have very different attitudes.or it can be that your converstation are becoming more analytical and critical .

eros is conjunct pholous and eris. this is a strong sexual chemistry but it is much more physical than emotional and implies that physical intimacy will not bring greater emotional intimacy.

there is so much in the composite that is extremely selfish .and with neptune showing hidden issues and possible deception, i would be cautious about giving your love to him. currently the relationship is totally mental anyway. i think that in to june and july the relationship will become much more emotional but still, there is instabilty and extreme selfishness.this rarely makes for a longterm relationship.

rahu

Last edited by rahu; 05-17-2013 at 11:46 PM.
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  #8  
Unread 05-21-2013, 04:02 PM
geminimoon83 geminimoon83 is offline
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Re: Composite chart or synastry?

Thank you, Rahu! Your reading of our composite chart is very interesting. So far my friend and I have very good communication and friendship. He "seems" more romantically inclined than me, but I am very cautious in any relationship due to past experiences. I do not give my love too easily. I prefer not to get too involved at first and just see where the friendship goes. The moons in Gemini make for good communication but it can also signify we are both flighty. We both have Venus either square or opposite Neptune in our natal charts. I know this brings deceit from others or deceit in ourselves. With Saturn/Pluto square orcus and nessus... does this mean the relationship in general is a selfish one? Does it mean we would be selfish with each other or that others would view us as selfish?
What house system do you prefer to use?
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Unread 05-21-2013, 10:26 PM
rahu rahu is offline
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Re: Composite chart or synastry?

hi eminimoon83

yes i am afraid he saturn/pluto square to nessus/orcus is extremely selfish. it indicates that thete is no real interest in "merging" or "oneness" in the relationship. his tpe of pattern shows a need to control and dominate inthe long run. as this square is made uo with predominely mascukine sybols , iot clearly shows tha he is no interested in a intimate love but rather a love which furthurs his selfish needs and desires. as the moon is conjunct the node ,you are marked wi hthe opposite tendency, that is yo form an intimate union and share the deepest emotional feelins with your partner.this is why i spoke of caution. your psychic/emotional sensations are wide open.these saturn/orcus etc square implies tat you have emotional issues fom childhood that are bringin you into relationsips ta mimic tese harsh emotional experiences of childhood. with saurn/pluto.nessus and orcus involved,the 4 most repressive and abusive symbols wen malefic, i would think ta any harsh childood environmental expeiences are no recalled,repressed or blocked. so you may be "walk blindsided" into relationsips that you intially feel are
"wholesome" but which in the end turn manipulative and domineering, if not emotionally abusive.

rahu

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  #10  
Unread 05-24-2013, 05:49 PM
geminimoon83 geminimoon83 is offline
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Re: Composite chart or synastry?

Um...wow... yes I did have a rather repressive childhood and was slightly emotionally abused. My father left me at a certain age, my grandfather doesn't look kindly on women and is somewhat controlling so we rarely speak anymore, my first marriage was controlling and my second was abusive and controlling. I didn't realize the emotional issues with childhood memories showed in my chart. I have "let go" to things others have done and have moved on with my life. Unfortunately, I still seem to attract deceitful, unfaithful people. I don't understand why? After coming out of an abusive marriage I am very cautious. I think my "friend" in this case is falling off in interest, and I am glad it ended easily. I believe in my natal chart4th house Mars is semisquare Uranus. Since Mars represents the man in a woman's chart could this mean that the men that come into my life will be unstable types? I know using the default chart in astro.com my 7th house is intercepted-- another bad thing for relationships.
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Unread 05-25-2013, 05:04 PM
geminimoon83 geminimoon83 is offline
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Re: Composite chart or synastry?

Am I doomed to having men like that (Selfish, controlling, manipulative, abusive) constantly showing up in my life, no matter how hard I try to see warning signs?
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Unread 01-28-2014, 02:48 AM
geminimoon83 geminimoon83 is offline
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Re: Composite chart or synastry?

Hello Rahu,

I stumbled across this thread again and found it interesting to read the things you had predicted about this relationship. As you said, I walked blindsided into the relationship thinking things would turn out well. Everything you said about him and our relationship came true. He asked me to marry him July last year and things actually went downhill from there. He became selfish in the extreme and so conceited and domineering I could no longer stand it. The relationship officially died once TR Uranus squared my Venus. Sadly, not before he had messed me up somewhat financially.
I am unfamiliar with some of the aspects you mentioned in your posts such as Sedna and Orcus. Do these heavenly bodies affect us as much as the planets do?
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Unread 01-28-2014, 07:19 PM
rahu rahu is offline
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Re: Composite chart or synastry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by geminimoon83 View Post
Hello Rahu,

I stumbled across this thread again and found it interesting to read the things you had predicted about this relationship. As you said, I walked blindsided into the relationship thinking things would turn out well. Everything you said about him and our relationship came true. He asked me to marry him July last year and things actually went downhill from there. He became selfish in the extreme and so conceited and domineering I could no longer stand it. The relationship officially died once TR Uranus squared my Venus. Sadly, not before he had messed me up somewhat financially.
I am unfamiliar with some of the aspects you mentioned in your posts such as Sedna and Orcus. Do these heavenly bodies affect us as much as the planets do?
i have found that orcus and sedna and other plantoids and all have a affect on one's natal as great as the classic symbols. orcus is easy to accept as it is a twin of pluto which most astrologer accept excludin traditional astrologers who dont use the planets past saturn.
orcus has an almost identical period of revolutionary period,almost identical angle of inclination to the ecplitic and pluto,orcus are in a 2:3 resoncance with neptune, pluto and orcus revolving twice wihile neptune orbits 3 thrice .

all the other planetiods also have affect.

rahu
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  #14  
Unread 02-13-2014, 09:16 AM
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Re: Composite chart or synastry?

Hi I am new in the forum and this will be my first reading or input. Astrology has been a serious hobby for 14 years but I have no real practice with this approach so I will need experience. I will stay brief. I read Claire19 first reply and agreed with her right away. my first reaction while looking at the charts, what I noticed first is how concentrated your planet placement is, in the 4th home, 11th friends and 9th higher education suggesting you have structure, stability, goals and focus while looking at his chart I saw scattered planets quite the opposite of what you have going on for yourself. With just a quick glance the only redeeming quality that would give the chance of seriousness is in the the moon and only because the moon rules over both of your descendants and you both have the moon in the 5th house of heart children and marriage. This is what I see at a glance without looking at the other replies.
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Unread 02-13-2014, 09:54 AM
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Re: Composite chart or synastry?

Ok I looked over rahu's post a little and it gave me a little more confidence to tell you what I truly saw. I saw him being unstable hopping around to where ever his puposes and needs were met. His charm that you witnessed I sense was only an ostentatious act . I just saw it I think he sees opportunity for a place to live or some other possible resource is he stable? I would advise letting him decide the conversation and see if he doesn't just feed off all of what you say. Sorry I could be wrong for sure. Also I think you did get a glimpse of only a part of him because like I mentioned he is all over the place. He is the friend sign of Aquarius placed in his second with his Neptune in his 11th friend house. He has many friends who are an asset to his well being and he floats around I could see him dancing and talking, dancing and talking. Now I must I am biased I don't trust men but I trust my astrology more so take what you want out of it and thank your for being my first reading in this forum and setting. I'll get better.
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Unread 02-13-2014, 09:56 AM
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Re: Composite chart or synastry?

welp never mind I just read your sad post sorry. I saw it Man men
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Unread 02-13-2014, 09:59 AM
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Re: Composite chart or synastry?

im so off the mark oh well good practice funny
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Unread 02-15-2014, 08:28 PM
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Re: Composite chart or synastry?

Zarathu wrote
2. the Sun/Moon need patterns combined

3. One chart with a midpoint between the other chart's two planets

---Can you clarify what #2 is?
---One chart with a midpoint between for example its own Mars and Venus "between" the other chart's 2 planets----would that mean the midpoint of my Mars and Venus in the same area as his Mars-Venus midpoint?
Melisa
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Unread 02-15-2014, 09:55 PM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: Composite chart or synastry?

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Originally Posted by melisa View Post
Zarathu wrote
2. the Sun/Moon need patterns combined

3. One chart with a midpoint between the other chart's two planets

---Can you clarify what #2 is?
---One chart with a midpoint between for example its own Mars and Venus "between" the other chart's 2 planets----would that mean the midpoint of my Mars and Venus in the same area as his Mars-Venus midpoint?
Melisa
You'd need to post the two charts together. And then you need to look at two planets in your chart, and see if he has a planet that is at the midpoint of the two planets in your chart. For example, If you have mars at the DSC and Moon at the ASC, and he has his Jupiter at your MH.

Sun Moon blends are a listing of the 144 possible sun moon blends.
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Unread 02-16-2014, 03:34 AM
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Re: Composite chart or synastry?

Everything said about him is very much true. He is very unstable and selfish and not to be trusted. I long for stability but have yet to find it in anyone I have dated or the two men I was married to. I tend to ALWAYS end up with the wrong type. Quite often something has been completely hidden from me. To have talked with this particular person and spent time with him you would've thought he was the most stable man on the planet. Isn't it amazing how much people can hide? And yes he is flighty in the extreme. He kept ex girlfriends/ ex wife around and called them family. lol Yep, a little strange. I heard from him recently but at the mention of helping out with the baby (even something simple like buying a carseat for her!) he suddenly disappears. He seems fearful of responsibility. He makes many promises that he has no intentions of keeping.

What house system is recommended? The reason I ask is I found an interesting article about house systems this morning.
http://darkstarastrology.com/house-system-astrology/

She seems to advocate Whole House. In my chart this would place my Sun, Mercury, and Mars in the 5th with Moon in the 6th and Saturn/Pluto conjunction in the 10th.
I am curious which should be used because I am still working through my Yod which Saturn seems to be activating right now.

Rahu, I am completely new to Orcus and Sedna. Are these outer planetoids as strong in effect as those closer to the Sun? How far out in the Universe before a planet or asteroid is discounted for having an effect on Earth?
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Unread 02-16-2014, 10:26 PM
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Re: Composite chart or synastry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by geminimoon83 View Post
Rahu, I am completely new to Orcus and Sedna. Are these outer planetoids as strong in effect as those closer to the Sun? How far out in the Universe before a planet or asteroid is discounted for having an effect on Earth?
hi geminimoon83

you must keep in mind that no one knows why astrology correlates with life's experiences.

we are programmed by our scientifically based society to think in terms of gravity etc... but the planets to do not affect us through gravity. stars have a great power in charts and these are thousands or millions of light years away. so relating distance to signifigance is a blind intellectual alley when it comes to astrology.

as i posted on http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=63539

" As to reality the most accurate scientific system is defined by quantum mechanics. Surprising;ly quantum theory shows that reality is much like the classic metaphysical systems , rather than einsteinian or Newtonian dogma. Underlying quantum theory is the concept of non locality. This means that there is no such thing as distance between objects . everything is connected on the quantum matrix. Every particle of matter is “entangled “ with every other particle of matter in the universe ,no matter how distantly separated.
This notion is alien to classical physics . if one manipulate one of the pairs , the other is affected no matter to far they are separated. Experiment with entangled ions which had a “dog leg” showed that if the appendage on one was mechanically moved, the other ion also moved. This is quite astounding as many experiments had shown that manipulation by lasers would be felt by the entangled pair also.

The book a different universe, by Robert Laughlin , a Nobel prize recipient in physics, explains these concepts .
Briefly, matter-particles are the intersection/nodes of quantum vibrations. But these quantum vibrations could be a function of another quantum l system, and this system could also be a function of another system, physist just don’t know what the quantum Matrix really is. But hundreds if not thousands of experiments have shown quantum theory to be correct.
Quantum physics is at the base of reality, while einsteinian or Newtonian concepts are considered emergent.
An example of this distinction is shown by the laws of gas pressure. As long as one has a large sample of gas , then the movement and pressure of gas in a closed container can be calculated quite well with Newtonian principles. But when one reduces the size of the sample o f gas, then the gas behaves by quantum principles. So Newtonian physics are not inherent in the structure of reality. newtonian laws only operate when reality reaches a certain size or threshold. whereas quantum principles underlie everything.
So quantum theory “fixates” reality. Matter and reality are the nodes of quantum frequencies"

so every particle of "matter" is connected to every other "particle" of matter. and the quality of these connections is also defined by quantum mechanics.
so when you look for significance with a particular astrological symbol, you are not creating meaning , rather the meaning of the symbol for you exists
a priori. you are really just discovering the preexistant connection/meaning you have to that symbol.
so the size and distance of any astrological symbol does not matter, what matters is that you have seeked the meaning of that symbol and the meaning of that symbol already existed before you searched for it.

rahu
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  #22  
Unread 02-17-2014, 03:19 PM
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Re: Composite chart or synastry?

rahu,

how would you interpet Composite Moon closely ( 2 degrees) square the Composite Nodes. Actually, Moon is at the midpoint of the South Node and Pluto and squares them both.
The Moon also conjuncts Nessus and trines Jupiter.

I mostly wonder about the Moon in square to the Nodes
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Unread 02-18-2014, 08:20 PM
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Re: Composite chart or synastry?

the positions you describe are difficult as the moon square the nodal axis would emphacize the emotional sensitivy between the two. but pluto and nessus are extremely selfish impulses. this would block the emotional sensitivity and likely add a element of domination and control between them. this position tends to shows a difficult childhood for he woman and the possibiltiy is that she is drawn to domineering individuals because of personlality fixations developed in childhood.
but the entire chart must be considered, though these aspests are quite emotionally limiting.

rahu
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Unread 02-28-2014, 01:47 AM
geminimoon83 geminimoon83 is offline
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Re: Composite chart or synastry?

Rahu,

Thank you so much for your help and for explaining the inner workings of astrology. Astrology requires much study, and I hope in time I will understand it better.
How much power do you think it has over our lives? I have seen some horrible natal charts but the person has overcome all obstacles and personal flaws, but then I have seen some charts that have few negative aspects and their lives are rampant with conflicts. Of course, I am really just a beginner so some of these charts may show something I am completely missing. Also, as you have pointed out there are many countless other planets and stars all connected to each other in energy.

The man whose chart I posted here has popped back into my life and is begging me to marry him. I have told him it will not work but he has become very persistent. It is interesting that this is taking place when my Neptune is trine Venus. It has been a wonderful time for me as an artist, but I have often heard that love during this transit can be quite illusionary!
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