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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #176  
Unread 08-26-2013, 12:59 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post
.....I think there's a misunderstanding of what "good" and "evil" actually mean in Traditional Astrology.

The Benefic Planets -- Jupiter & Venus -- when well-placed and in good condition
result in attainment with little or no effort....

everything is easy....

everything, whether its gaining wealth, attaining fame, having children, raising children, dying, recovering from injuries or illnesses, and in the 8th House for a woman, the ease of child-birth and such.

That is the essence of good.....Beneficence.



The Malefic Planets -- Saturn & Mars -- when well-placed and in good condition
still permit the Native to attain things, but only through difficulties, struggles, and other misfortunes....
it's never easy.

Should the Malefics have reign over Wealth, sure, the Native will get wealth,
but in doing so, ruin their relationships with spouses, children, lose their friends along the way,

or they might even lose their health...
they might even die because of it.

And that is true for everything in the chart ---
if they control 10th House Matters, you might be famous, but only through hard work and sacrifice, and probably a lot of sorrow;

children, it might be difficult to have children or when you do, they bring you sorrow;

you'll have relationships, but always with difficulties and troubles.

That is the essence of evil..Maleficence.....
Clearly then, "good" and "evil" are based on planetary placement and planetary condition

So

planets may be in good condition
and thus able to bring easy/
"good" results that are favorable to the native

or

planets may be in bad condition
and thus able to bring difficult/
"bad" results that are unfavorable to the native

Thanks for the elucidation
btw - which JMO clearly illustrates that Traditional Astrology's duo of allegedly baleful malefics i.e. Mars and Saturn

might even 'be the good guys' of a natal chart

BECAUSE the results they bring to the native
are entirely dependent on their condition and placement in an individual's natal chart

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  #177  
Unread 08-26-2013, 03:18 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

@ Bob

perhaps Liz Greenes writing was not a good example, It was the first thng that came into my head when thinking about positive lights on Saturn instead of the woe betide you usual stuff. Must say I found her hard to follow/quite unnecessarily dense, but that was the only reason.....perhaps careful what you read is better advice


I hadnt realised Jung was such a damage agent.....but one thing I have learnt from experience is the theory and meaning of synchronicity can mess people up! JMHO
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  #178  
Unread 08-26-2013, 06:04 PM
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Get back on topic

All,

I have deleted the attacks and the responses to the attacks. Even though those posts contained astrology, they are against the rules of the AW Forum. If you want to repost your information without attacks, you are welcome to. In order to decide if something is an attack, imagine the comment directed at you. If you would be insulted, angered, threatened, etc. then the post is an attack. I will continue to delete posts as needed to ensure that members are not attacking other members. It's OK to disagree, just find a way to do it without personally attacking others.

Back on topic,

Tim
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  #179  
Unread 08-27-2013, 07:10 AM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Linzul, in answer to your question:

a rule specifically for the Traditional forum and for the Traditional forum only
is there BECAUSE traditionally, the outer planets are not needed for chart delineation.

Today, as in ancient times, the VISIBLE planets that are visible in the night skies are
Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn and the Sun is visible during the day.
These are the 7 Visible Planets that are easily seen by those with normal vision
without any necessity for artificial aids such as telescopes.

The 7 visible planets have been used in chart delineation for at least two thousand years.

Clay tablets confirm that the 7 visible planets have been observed for at least approximately ten thousand years...
and in fact the Mayan Calendar's use of observations of the planet Venus provides stunning accuracy

The outers were 'discovered'/'noticed' recently so their use is an experimental part of modern astrology,
also there is no consensus amongst modern astrologers regarding their 'effects'.

There is no mention of the outers in Traditional astrological texts written by ancient masters of astrology,
therefore obviously there is simply no need for their use on a Traditional forum.
The following table has been used by astrologers for at least one and a half thousand years
as a Study Aid in the determination of planetary dignity and debility - notice that the outers are entirely absent


source of the above table: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig2.html
I have to ask since Traditional astrology is new to me then how to interpret empty houses? My 8th and 5th are empty, and searching has brought up the planetary ruler of the sign the house falls on. For my 8th it's Mercury which is easy enough, but 5th is Pisces. Presumably ruled by Jupiter by Traditional standards? Would a Traditional astrologer even interpret an empty House this way, planetary governance by sign or is google messing with me? Thanks for the chart!!


Related bummer: I had my spiritual side "all figured out" with 5th house ruler Moon aspects laid out on a Modern chart. Back to the drawing board, but is it safe to assume the 9th House and religion are tied together more academically and 5th is more about the spiritual side of religion?

Last edited by Linzul; 08-27-2013 at 07:12 AM.
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  #180  
Unread 08-27-2013, 01:38 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linzul View Post
I have to ask since Traditional astrology is new to me then how to interpret empty houses? My 8th and 5th are empty, and searching has brought up the planetary ruler of the sign the house falls on. For my 8th it's Mercury which is easy enough, but 5th is Pisces. Presumably ruled by Jupiter by Traditional standards? Would a Traditional astrologer even interpret an empty House this way, planetary governance by sign or is google messing with me? Thanks for the chart!!


Related bummer: I had my spiritual side "all figured out" with 5th house ruler Moon aspects laid out on a Modern chart. Back to the drawing board, but is it safe to assume the 9th House and religion are tied together more academically and 5th is more about the spiritual side of religion?
5th being Pisces
Jupiter is traditional domicile ruler of Pisces
with Venus the Exalted ruler of Pisces
so the sign and house location of natal Jupiter and natal Venus
as well as their aspects to other natal planets,
all have an influence regarding matters of Pisces 5th house
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  #181  
Unread 08-27-2013, 11:12 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linzul View Post
I have to ask since Traditional astrology is new to me then how to interpret empty houses? My 8th and 5th are empty, and searching has brought up the planetary ruler of the sign the house falls on. For my 8th it's Mercury which is easy enough, but 5th is Pisces. Presumably ruled by Jupiter by Traditional standards? Would a Traditional astrologer even interpret an empty House this way, planetary governance by sign or is google messing with me? Thanks for the chart!!


Related bummer: I had my spiritual side "all figured out" with 5th house ruler Moon aspects laid out on a Modern chart. Back to the drawing board, but is it safe to assume the 9th House and religion are tied together more academically and 5th is more about the spiritual side of religion?
This is a very good question, and my recommendation would be to create a new thread restating it. That way it isn't buried on page four or five of a thread about the 9th house. Likely, you aren't the only one who would like to see it answered.
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  #182  
Unread 08-27-2013, 11:33 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
5th being Pisces
Jupiter is traditional domicile ruler of Pisces
with Venus the Exalted ruler of Pisces
so the sign and house location of natal Jupiter and natal Venus
as well as their aspects to other natal planets,
all have an influence regarding matters of Pisces 5th house
Well you learn somethng new everyday, that is the first time I have read that you should consider the exalted ruler of a sign of a house in its interpretation
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  #183  
Unread 08-28-2013, 03:59 AM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
"If Venus were in the 9th house and in her own domicile or exaltation,
the native will be a famous hermit
,
and this most strongly if Jupiter aspected by a good aspect"


Abu Bakr ON NATIVITIES


Mother Theresa
aka The Blessed Teresa of Calcutta
born 26 August 1910 – 5 September 1997
was an Albanian born, Indian Roman Catholic Religious Sister.


9th House Leo Venus
note Jupiter in Libra on MC in good aspect with Venus by sextile
A famous hermit??? An oxymoron. Venus in the 9th relates to higher learning, foreign travel and contacts, higher laws and our belief systems.
None of which relates to a famous anything really, necessarily.

Mother Teresa was a Virgo which is typical for a nun or a virgin which she undoubtedly was. She had her MC ruler sextile Jupiter for religious matters and spending her money on it. She was from a wealthy family.
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  #184  
Unread 08-28-2013, 10:46 AM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire19 View Post
A famous hermit??? An oxymoron. Venus in the 9th relates to higher learning, foreign travel and contacts, higher laws and our belief systems.
None of which relates to a famous anything really, necessarily.

Mother Teresa was a Virgo which is typical for a nun or a virgin which she undoubtedly was. She had her MC ruler sextile Jupiter for religious matters and spending her money on it. She was from a wealthy family
.
On the contrary, hermits are in general famed not only in their local area but also in some cases
- given today's news media and swift communication internet systems -
often famed worldwide
AND YET MANY WHO DELIBERATELY SEEK FAME, IRONICALLY REMAIN UNKNOWN



Mother Theresa, a famous hermit, a woman who is well documented IN NEWS MEDIA
– THEREFORE FAMOUS -
as having spent decades of her adult life in the slums of Calcutta attending to the dying, those 'forgotten people', frequently homeless, considered as 'human trash', may have been born into a wealthy family, however her entire worldly possessions during her decades as a nun were two saris and a bucket. She famously wore one sari while the other having been washed in the bucket was being dried in the hot sun of India, her homeland.

Mother Theresa was famous for doing what most others would not do
i.e. She left home at age 18 and joined the Sisters of Loreto as a missionary nun and never again saw her mother or sister.
Mother Theresa devoted her entire adult life as a nun, to seeking out the filthiest most disease ridden areas of Indian cities, mostly Calcutta, and nursing the dying and diseased inhabitants. She did not fulfil the popular notion of a hermit by 'living in a cave in the mountains' but she was a hermit.


QUOTE

'….Mother Teresa founded Missionaries of Charity, a Roman Catholic religious congregation, which 2012 consisted of over 4,500 sisters active in 133 countries. They run hospices and homes for people with HIV/AIDS, leprosy and tuberculosis; soup kitchens; children's and family counseling programmes; orphanages; and schools. Members of the order must adhere to the vows of chastity, poverty and obedience, and the fourth vow, to give "Wholehearted and Free service to the poorest of the poor". Mother Teresa received 1979 Nobel Peace Prize, was beatified 2003 - the third step toward possible sainthood - giving her the title "Blessed Teresa of Calcutta"....'


'….During her lifetime, Mother Teresa was named 18 times yearly Gallup most admired man/woman poll as one of ten women worldwide Americans admired most, finishing first several times in 1980s and 1990s. In 1999, Americans ranked her first in Gallup's List of Most Widely Admired People of the 20th Century. In that survey, she out-polled all other volunteered answers by a wide margin, and was in first place in all major demographic categories except the very young. Privately, for nearly 50 years until the end of her life, Mother Teresa experienced doubts/ struggles over her religious beliefs - "She felt no presence of God whatsoever" said her postulator Rev. Brian Kolodiejchuk....'

JMO it is interesting that Mother Theresa wrote the following statement in a letter, thus proving that a belief in God is unnecessary in order to do good deeds


'...."Where is my faith? Even deep down ... there is nothing but emptiness and darkness ... If there be God—please forgive me. When I try to raise my thoughts to Heaven, there is such convicting emptiness that those very thoughts return like sharp knives and hurt my very soul ... How painful is this unknown pain—I have no Faith. Repulsed, empty, no faith, no love, no zeal, ... What do I labor for? If there be no God, there can be no soul. If there be no soul then, Jesus, You also are not true" ....'



Another famous hermit is Gautama Buddha – who was born into a wealthy home as an Indian Prince, yet abandoned fabulous wealth, as well as a beautiful young wife and family for a hermits existence – Gautama Buddha is famed for having sat under a Bo-tree in the wilderness until he famously attained enlightenment. Gautama Buddha was followed by many disciples who followed him for his teaching. Many hermits have a following. They remain hermits. Many hermits are famous.
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  #185  
Unread 08-28-2013, 11:05 AM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

Catholic Encyclopedia

http://www.catholiconline.org/encycl...ew.php?id=5716

"( Eremites , "inhabitants of a desert ", from the Greek eremos ), also called anchorites, were men who fled the society of their fellow-men to dwell alone in retirement. Not all of them, however, sought so complete a solitude as to avoid absolutely any intercourse with their fellow-men. Some took a companion with them, generally a disciple ; others remained close to inhabited places, from which they procured their food. This kind of religious life preceded the community life of the cenobites. Elias is considered the precursor of the hermits in the Old Testament . St. John the Baptist lived like them in the desert. Christ, too, led this kind of life when he retired into the mountains....."


http://www.hermitary.com/faqs.html

What is a hermit?
A hermit is a person who lives apart from society. Traditionally, this has meant living alone and self-sufficiently, but not always. The word "hermit" is derived from the Greek eremia for "desert," in reference to the Desert Fathers of the fourth century; and eremos came to mean solitary. The Latin equivalent is solitarius.
The term recluse is often taken as a synonym but it has a more behavioral sense to it, while the term "hermit" often retains its deliberate, even spiritual sense. For example, the famed eleventh edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica defined "hermit" as "a solitary, one who withdraws from all intercourse with other human beings in order to live a life of religious contemplation." However, the American Heritage Dictionary defines "hermit" as "a person who has withdrawn from society and lives a solitary existence; a recluse."
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  #186  
Unread 09-16-2013, 07:55 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

Oops, just found this thread!

The 9th House
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  #187  
Unread 10-13-2013, 11:02 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

I have my Sun(Pisces) in the 9th House, I didn't have any religious upbringing in my childhood.Both my parents were very spiritual, caring, well-traveled, educated (as this house also reflects education + travels) but they didn't "believe" in a specific God or raising me + my brother to believe or follow a certain religion. I don't consider myself religious, but I am spiritual by nature. I don't know if this is considered also atheism in some cultures..but yes I feel I am responsible for my soul + mission.I breathe in order to learn and connect with other. Also I read somewhere that the 9th House reflects long journeys...Any other suggestions would be welcome. THANKS

Last edited by wintersprite1; 11-23-2013 at 05:30 AM.
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  #188  
Unread 10-27-2013, 07:40 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

My 9th house is Gemini Deleted by Moderator

My belief is very complex, it constantly changes. I was atheist for a while. In my country people are mostly Muslim but I just feel connection to its Sufism side. I'm more into spirituality than dogmatic religions and I'm bored of rules and rituals to do everyday. I believe in family karma/past karma and unity. I don't want to choose a belief, I would like to believe all of them at the same time.
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Last edited by wintersprite1; 11-23-2013 at 05:31 AM. Reason: Traditional does not use the outer planets
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  #189  
Unread 10-28-2013, 02:25 AM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

Dear Kimbermoon ,
In the past few months I have been experiencing a state of contemplation and growth in a multitude of psychological and Spiritual states. I was speaking with a friend moments before I logged into this site and came across this validating piece of writing. In addition to your planets and placements I have similar aspects. I have a Moon/Taurus in the 9th, deleted by moderator and a Jupiter in Pisces as well as Sun/Mars/Venus in Scorpio. Subsequently, after experiencing insightful revelations into lessons I had been working on for at least 6 years I came across this essay which miraculously tied rite into an epic moment I needed to solidify just then. I. would like to share part of my story. About twenty years ago, while seeking council, I started studying Astrology and learned I possessed a psychological mind and a humanitarian heart. I became Christian in 2007 and was deeply dedicated to the dogma. My story is long and arduous so I will spare you the major details, however I want to tell a brief part of my history so I can share the immensity of my success. Growing up abused and traumatized I had a lot of work to do before I could fathom the idea of pursuing my goal of becoming a psychologist. With all my dysfunctional thinking and anger, compassion escaped me. So My dilemma was, I had all of the cognizant tools to start my journey but radiated with an arrogant ethnocentric view forcing my ideas on others. Before starting college last spring I felt hopeless and fearful of the truth of the hate that dwelled within. I mean how could I be so delusional to think I could help others with this warped sense of righteousness. Although plagued, I persevered with faith. I am currently attending a Cultural Anthropology and Comparative Religion, Philosophy class which I was apprehensive to attend because of my Christianity. I did not want to be influenced away from the Church. I do believe and Know Jesus Christ but struggled regardless. Before recently I was unaware of terms such as ethnocentric and my whole being permeated with it. Thankfully my heart has been opened to accepting others for who and where they are. I truly was unable to get to a genuine place where I could love others. I look forward to continuing my education pursuing Christ, Psychology, Astrology and loving people.

Last edited by wintersprite1; 11-23-2013 at 05:36 AM. Reason: traditional does not use outers
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  #190  
Unread 11-02-2013, 07:46 AM
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Post Re: The Ninth House and Religion

In my chart, Pisces is my 9th house and the planet Mercury is in it, so the planet of communication gave me an ability to share and discuss religious views I have to those who are interested. Pisces like Sagittarius are ruled by planets Jupiter (Zeus, the leading god of the gods) and Neptune.

Christianity thrived to become a major world religion in the last astrological age: the Age of Pisces, and we're now in the Age of Aquarius (yet there's a Capricornian element, since the two signs share the planets Saturn and Uranus) symbolized a more openness toward religion and into spirituality.

The sign Sagittarius is associated with December (but in astrology, the sun is in this sign from Nov. 23-Dec. 21), the month allegedly when Jesus Christ was born to some theologians attempted to find the exact date of his birth, however the sidereal astrologers placed Sagittarius from Dec. 17 to Jan. 15. Also Dec. 21 is the beginning of winter (solstice) in the northern hemisphere, the Roman holiday of Saturnalia was Dec. 25 when the sun is in Capricorn (or 2,000 years ago, in the sign of Aquarius).

Sidereal astrology realigned Aquarius in where tropical Pisces is (Feb. 14-Mar. 11), the other sign (12th house) ruled by Jupiter, again represent the role of religion, but Pisces is more on the mystical side of things in regards to faith. The 9th and 12th houses stands for religion and mysticism, while the 10th and 11th is spirituality and epiphany (Capricorn's attributes).

And going through web sites on astrology, I find one proposed by a known astrologer stated tropical Aquarius is redesignated Sagittarius, the 9th sign. In that version of astrology, Aquarius runs from Mar. 26-Apr. 20 for those born after 1990. For the two signs (and houses) representing religious and spiritual views, Aquarius should be Sagittarius in that POV.
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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  #191  
Unread 11-06-2013, 08:39 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

Natal Saturn in 9th w/Aries cusp. I do not believe in God and for anyone interested, this clip suggests that monotheistic religions are a perpetuated myth constructed on astronomical and astrological phenomenon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiuqheVn72A
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  #192  
Unread 11-10-2013, 06:01 PM
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Cool Re: The Ninth House and Religion

seems I have come late to this party........

Jupiter in 9th house in cancer. Moon in pisces in 4th. interested in religion and how history has been shaped by religion. did think of studying religion at one point and again the similarities in each of the faiths is not surprising to me. raised a catholic but don't practice. whilst I respect people's beliefs I am of the view that there is only one source and what ever tribe we ascribe to on this earth - we all end up in the same place! However do remember being told by someone on this site that this was 'wet' thinking.

very interesting video link(in post before mine) I think the Christ energy is just a vibration. the christos principle to raise the vibration from the solar plexus (money and power dominated) to the heart vibration - love and peace and universal (catholic) love. but agree somehow this has all got twisted and manipulated along the way. Islam means peace but .....

good to know that we have until 2150 to get this right cos so far we as humans seemed to have failed on this one. Dismally.
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  #193  
Unread 11-10-2013, 06:16 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

Caro states:

Quote:
Jupiter in 9th house in cancer. Moon in pisces in 4th. interested in religion and how history has been shaped by religion. did think of studying religion at one point and again the similarities in each of the faiths is not surprising to me. raised a catholic but don't practice. whilst I respect people's beliefs I am of the view that there is only one source and what ever tribe we ascribe to on this earth - we all end up in the same place! However do remember being told by someone on this site that this was 'wet' thinking.


Well As I understand the three largest religions on the planet come about because of a Chaldean by the name of Abraham who started Judaism, from which Christianity and Islam made detours!



http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/merovingians/merovingios_08.htm

By the way is there any wonder that Judaism, Islam and some Christians embrace astrology as Abraham and his offspring were so much into astrology as it predates the Hebrew faith?
.
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  #194  
Unread 11-10-2013, 06:20 PM
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clinton Soule View Post
Caro states:



Well As I understand the three largest religions on the planet come about because of a Chaldean by the name of Abraham who started Judaism, from which Christianity and Islam made detours!



http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/merovingians/merovingios_08.htm

By the way is there any wonder that Judaism, Islam and some Christians embrace astrology as Abraham and his offspring were so much into astrology as it predates the Hebrew faith?
.
ha ha ha ha ha ha.
and here they come........ the tribal war fare begins. 'we are the chosen ones. no says the other tribe it is us. , For Christ sake kids will you just stop it!!!!!
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  #195  
Unread 11-10-2013, 07:04 PM
Clinton Soule Clinton Soule is offline
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

This is puzzling me about this woman's lord of the 7th in the natal 9th:

[deleted overly sexualized picture against forum rules - Moderator]


This is said to be her horoscope:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...t=4245&page=19

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Saturnian
Are you able to post her please by any chance? I seem to struggle inputting the coordinates of her birth place. Alternatively could you reveal the location of her birth place please?


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Now in her map, is in terms of at 29 deg. .

I have known males with Jupiter ruing their natal 7th and posited in the 9th whom both went to a university abroad, 9th house, and married a woman of foreign extraction, whom were not moral by any of the major world religions standards yet recognized the moral decay of their own nation.

Miss Karla like what happened to King David and Samson(their fall over a woman), has her Venus that is hitting me hard, a great aspect!

So I'm wondering, as she most likely will marry or co-habit with a foreign man(9H) but will she with N. Node Dec., cjt her descendant and that Jupiter in tau at 29{terms of Mars} degrees, will she eventually eventually become moral conscious?

I mean she appears anything but into morality in the Judeo-Christian standard and I think she having her lord of the 7th in terms of mars is most likely into making her own rules and defying any moral precepts!

We all know studying astrology that there are many potential relationships shown in the aspects between two, thus that is a factor why so many extra marital affairs are made, yet one's moral nature is exhibited by their 9th house make-up and that of Jupiter who is the natural ruler of the 9th.

But I question why she is as she is and with the mutable cross will she make needed changes in order to have a traditional union?
.

Last edited by wilsontc; 11-22-2013 at 08:32 PM.
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  #196  
Unread 11-15-2013, 08:33 AM
Lucypur Lucypur is offline
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

My Jupiter is in Leo in the 9th house.
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  #197  
Unread 11-23-2013, 10:36 AM
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Caro Caro is offline
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

there are lots of other faiths and philosophies in the world, Hindu, buddhisms practiced by billions. we are so western centric.
They to, embrace astrology, much more than western societies and the ideologies that go with the west.
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Time() for change()

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'You can take a horse to water but you can not make it drink'! My grandad
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  #198  
Unread 12-24-2013, 03:55 PM
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socrates socrates is offline
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Re: The Ninth House and Religion

http://beyondtheheaven.wordpress.com/2013/12/24/beautiful-workability-of-the-firdaria-example/comment-page-1/#comment-720

firdaria and religion
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