Chiron: where it hurts

waybread said:

Stinky, our posts crossed. So just a few more thoughts about Chiron in aspect.

See if you can concentrate on the helpful aspects to your Chiron. It sextiles Jupiter Jupiter is the philosopher of the zodiac, and good luck factor.

Another book I highly recommend is Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now. As a young man, he experienced his life as extremely painful. Then he developed a simple life philosophy that turned it around.

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Even though his 2nd book "A new Earth" came after "power of now", I highly recommend reading it first and then "power of now" second. Both are some of the best books I've ever read on any of these subjects. Much of my philosophy on Vesta and the Vertex and the Node come from this.

Hi way,
I think I've attached it below.
Thanks.

You have an interesting chart, with a lot of domiciled planets (Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn) making me think that you can go far in life! But I wonder how you fare with committed, long-term relationships, with Chiron in the 7th house, opposed by disruptive Uranus. With quintiles to your Chiron, you have a lot of ambition and talent where Chiron is concerned, as well as a mix of squares (Mercury-Mars) and happy trines.

This is conjectural, but I wonder whether Chirotic wisdom is very important to you, with your sun-Jupiter in Sagittarius; or whether your sun-Jupiter plays out more in 5th house activities like recreation, children, or short-term love affairs. You could be the philosopher, the philanderer, or a mix of both!

You are motivated to think very deeply about things, but is there also a cruel streak here, with Mercury-Mars square Pluto? Do other people sometimes find you too critical? Chiron involved here from the 7th makes me think of that old song/saying, "You always hurt the ones you love." With your moon-Saturn in Capricorn, people may find you to be emotionally cool, yet you can have tremendous staying-power with someone when you want to, if only at a distance.

With your "bowl" shaped chart pattern, below the horizon, I think you live life deeply in your thoughts. Here Chiron can convey the wisdom that it offers as one works through its initial painful experiences.

There is no need to worry about chiron. It's too small. Useless.

Jim

I've always thought that Chiron is very synonymous with Virgo and I'll go even further to say that I believe that Chiron is the true ruler of Virgo.

There I said it!

Chiron shows where we are likely to be like a dog with a bone. We keep on picking at that darn scab and it leads us into an unending rabbit hole.

This obsession with where Chiron is placed, echoes to me the same analytical obsession that Virgo has.

To Virgo, a problem is never solved permanently and is always a "work in progress", so it is with Chiron- a "work in progress".

So , in signs, we find those themes re-curing again and again. And since this is something that we obsess about so much- we even deem it a "weakness"- when it is very close to the Asc, other people "see" it too.

That is maybe why Chiron conjunct the Asc is most likely to be bullied/ harassed by savage energy or people OR alternatively, protected and shielded by more protective energy or people? Because their vulnerabilities are out there for all to see?

Chiron in Aries-

On one hand, can be obsessed about taking the lead and being in "front". A bit of(ironically) a bully and physically intimidating.

Alternatively, they can also be very critical of themselves with regards to their own abilities and suffer an inferiority complex.

There is also likely to be some issues with regards to how they look. Perhaps they feel that their noses are too big? Not tall enough? Eyes are too small? Not strong enough etc.

Chiron in Taurus-

On one hand, has issues with money- can't seem to find a stable job or put a consistent handle on their finances. Money goes out faster than it comes in.

There is also a tendency to underestimate their worth and this translate to them getting jobs that underpay them.

Alternatively it could also suggest someone who is obsessed with material wealth and will do ANYTHING to get rich. This person may have a very high opinion of those whom are wealthy.


Chiron in Gemini

May have issues with regards to speaking- speech impediment, stuttering or voice projection. They may also be very shy and timid in expressing their opinion. Small talk can be a challenge for them.

It could also mean that sibling relationships is a "sore" point. Perhaps there was parental favouritism or not getting along? Even bullying by an older sibling?

Alternatively , it could also mean someone who just can't shut up. Someone who has the propensity to gossip and be a "busy body". They make it their business to know what everyone else is doing and may create BIG drama over very small things.

Chiron in Cancer

The home may have been a very painful place; an absent maternal figure or mothering role?

The mother may have had not much time to spend at home? The mother may have restricted their love towards them? Or there was a lot of instability at home? The person may even have an unclear feeling towards true "belonging"/ home?

Alternatively, it could also mean someone who may marry very young-because they want to establish the home environment which they lacked.

Someone who is extremely patriotic and many see "foreigners" as threats to their domestic way of life. A traditionalist and extremely conservative person.

You catch the drift? There are just too many signs to go through. Sorry

Stinky, I feel for you. Chiron can be very hard to deal with but understanding it and the wisdom and maturity it can bring later in life, is very valuable. It is not all bad. The mythological story of Chiron the Centaur is very interesting and sobering - perhaps you'd like to read up on it.

I read another astrological blog recently about planets that square the nodal axis and read that Pluto square the nodal axis can indicate profound traumatic experiences in a persons life. I then went to look at all the charts of family members and lo and behold, planets squaring their nodal axis was no surprise and you can sense/see the influence of them easily. I'm thinking that is the reason why you loathe Chiron so much, as the only personal planet that Chiron influences is your Mercury. Chiron square the nodal axis can mean a lot of wounding in your life and difficulty moving forward. I see the same thing with a family member with this aspect. It helps to grow compassion for your Self and understanding psychological astrology on a deep level can be very healing. Best wishes to you.

Bjorkstrand said:

There is no need to worry about chiron. It's too small. Useless.

Jim

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Jim, You are about 16 or 17 years old aren't you?

You have posted many times on another astrology forum about the sizes of asteroids. And somehow, you believe that size and proximity to be earth matters in astrology. Really? Any astrologer will tell you that is not the case. Admittedly, planets have a broader influence than asteroids, but asteroids provide focus on particular qualities and aspects which fill in the gaps in the whole story.

Your suggestion that Chiron is too small to matter makes no sense in the face of a great deal of evidence to the contrary.

Perhaps Jim is saying that he has not worked extensively with Chiron. I have and I think it is extremely important.

waybread said:

Perhaps Jim is saying that he has not worked extensively with Chiron. I have and I think it is extremely important.

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Reading this reminds me of two family members who from time to time have arguments about their experience in their family and with the parents who raised them. One feel deeply hurt by what the parents did or did not do and still feel the alienation, memories of loss and loss of connection years later. The other one is like: "What are you talking about? No they did not do those things to you. It must be your imagination." etc etc

Now that I understand Astrology - that people view and experience the world differently - and I have seen their charts, it is quite obvious. One has a prominent Chiron and the other not.

Perhaps people who do not understand Chiron properly and do not feel it so keenly as others, should stick to what they know and understand from experience and keep away from subjects (like Chiron) they don't have experience with…

Just for the record: I believe Chiron has a strong influence especially as it conjuncts personal planets or the ascendant or nodal axis (prominent in other words).

A very interesting discussion, indeed, and so actual for me because I wonder what will happen next to me with Lilith conjuncting exactly on the same degree my Chiron in the 11th house. I still have no answer to this aspect. Any suggestions?

Because it is difficult to develop a cookbook for each and every aspect involving so-called minor points in your horoscope, it is best if you develop an understanding of how Chiron and Lilith operate in your chart, in terms of (a) what they represent, (b) their signs and houses, and (c) any aspects they make to planets or chart angles. The 11th is your house of friends, as well as hopes and wishes for the future. With Chiron there, possibly one of these 11th house meanings is important for you. Transiting Lilith may stir the pot.

Whether a transit goes smoothly or with difficulty depends not only on the nature of the heavenly bodies or points involved, but also the degree to which you have gained some mastery over what they represent.

Yes, Waybread, no cookbook, that's okay. But even when I reflected on this, there is no real conclusion because it is so difficult to interprete your own chart, you know it.
The natal chart aspects between Lilith and Chiron are fine (sextile), but the square from Chiron to Uranus (8th), and Lilith transitting next on Chiron, so some surprises are expected, suddenly (from Uranus), and with deep changes (the 8th, house of dead) - but what could it be? What can you master about Lilith, and what about Chiron? If you master the meaning of Chiron which is suffering AND healing from suffering, there I cannot see a sens, because if it is mastered, then there is no more suffering and perhaps you don't even notice it. Or you have the fortune to understand by wisdom your suffering (the 11th, house of Aquarius), then it could be a mentally perhaps even spiritually healing?
But all this are only speculations.

It would be easier to respon if you post your chart. I firmly believe that you can guide your transits in a more empowering way by (a) thinking through the core meanings, and then (b) deliberately implementing in your life some positive meanings of the transit in question. Then we are less likely to get blind-sided by whatever the heavens dish out to us.

Uranus can mean either sudden upsets or liberation.

Chiron, where we get hurt, or how we grow in wisdom from the hurts that are part of life. Painful experiences will continue to happen, but we can mature in what we learn from them and how we apply those lessons. Of course, a lot of suffering is psychosomatic or worsened by attitudes of denial or fear, so Chiron can help us to relax around chronic pain or emotional hurts. Spiritual healing, for sure.

Black moon Lilith: the spoiler or the independent woman.

8th house: contemplating the meaning of life in the face of death, the phoenix, where we can kill off anything metaphorically dead or dying in our lives.

If you keep a journal, you might list some positive ways this transit could play out, and then deliberately input some ways to incorporate them into your life.

I have Chiron conjunct Ceres in my 8th house. Mars is also conjunct part of fortune in my 8th house.
Within the last years, I have lost a total of 12 people whose deaths have totally devastated me. I have psychic gifts and see and hear spirit all the time but death still is quite painful.
All my life, I have been drawn to assisting others in the dying process. As an RN, I have been with hundreds of dying people and families over the last 42 years in practice.
Chiron is a challenge as well as a gift in the 8th house. Part of fortune has helped me to understand my placement.

I have Chiron in Cancer in my natal 9th house. The degree at which it is located is right on where Sirius is in the chart. I have no clue what that could signify.

Another interesting aspect of my Chiron placement is that a male friend of mine has his Venus conjuncting it. We had a fling but nothing came of it in the long run.

I have Chiron and Lilith conjunct at my ascendant. Lilith represents the exiled feminine. This is a foundational wounding in our patriarchal society. Expect transformational awareness of the subjugated subjective part of yourself imo.

I was enjoying this thread the other day. Very good read; the discussion on past lives was engaging.

I got into a discussion with someone that reminded me of Chiron.

My Chiron is in 1st house Gemini. Ruler Rx Mercury in Leo, combust, 3rd house. Chiron is square to Jupiter in 11th house Pisces, opposing Uranus in 7th house Sagittarius (t-square with Jupiter).

My conversation partner has Chiron in 3rd house Aries, square nodal axis and Mars, opposed to Uranus in 9th house Libra (t-square with Mars, "grand cross" with nodal axis). Ruler Mars is in 1st house Capricorn.

The conversation went like this:

Gemini Chiron: "I find it very painful when I realize how we are creatures interacting with other creatures."

Aries Chiron: "I don't understand. Why is that painful?"

Gemini Chiron: "It's hard to explain. Say you have two hungry people. One of them has a sandwich. The other ones sees the sandwich. Then the sandwich holder sees that the other person is seeing him and seeing the sandwich, and understands the other is hungry and may take the sandwich. That moment when intentions are realized and communication takes place. That hurts. How do we communicate at all when we can never experience what it is the be someone other than yourself? Do you really know? Whenever I realize that boundary my skin crawls."

Aries Chrion: "I'm not sure I get that feeling. I do understand that kind of pain when communication is severed because people do not take the time or effort to allow communication to actually happen. It is up to the speaker to make sure the listener has complete understanding of their words. The listener does not recognize they have some responsibility in the interaction. I've spent so much of my life trying to be understood, to be as clear as possible, feeling like I've done something wrong, but then I realize how much the listener isn't interested in communication but in proclamations that absolve them of responsibility or they have no time for you; "Do you know the answer? Do you know the answer?" It is painful when people do not participate in understanding one another. I see people buy into a false sense of security that allows them to stop participating in real communication."

Do you think the position of Chiron in the charts is shown in these statements? Our house/signs for Chiron are essentially reversed. These seem to be reverse arguments of "suffering" through communication/identity as well. One is sensitive to communication occurring, the other from it not occurring, as it relates to the self.

theoddone said:

I have Chiron in Cancer in my natal 9th house. The degree at which it is located is right on where Sirius is in the chart. I have no clue what that could signify.

Another interesting aspect of my Chiron placement is that a male friend of mine has his Venus conjuncting it. We had a fling but nothing came of it in the long run.

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Check your Moon placement. Without more information, I would think Chiron here would have to do with your instinctual and emotional reactions; you might have an instinctual understanding of justice, rightfulness, meaningfulness of life. Yet you also have to deal with your feelings and sense of security not fitting in with or being damaged by a framework of law, religion, culture. There could be a sense of inadequacy when it comes travelling, getting an education or looking for a higher purpose.

But that's a bit of a shotgun interpretation.

Flapjacks said:

Check your Moon placement. Without more information, I would think Chiron here would have to do with your instinctual and emotional reactions; you might have an instinctual understanding of justice, rightfulness, meaningfulness of life. Yet you also have to deal with your feelings and sense of security not fitting in with or being damaged by a framework of law, religion, culture. There could be a sense of inadequacy when it comes travelling, getting an education or looking for a higher purpose.

But that's a bit of a shotgun interpretation.

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Natal moon conjunct natal Venus in the 3rd house with Capricorn ruling it on my chart. My moon and Venus signs are in Aquarius...I'm thinking that's not a very good combo for love or emotions at all.

I think your shotgun interpretation hit the nail on the head for me.

I am a firm believer in equality. I know we're all equal and that no one is better than anyone. I get irritated when people say otherwise. I can't stand seeing pictures of sick children or animals because I find it disturbing and seeing some of those pictures makes me feel ill. I always feel like an outsider and that I don't fit in anywhere and three years of my life were completely controlled by a religious fanatic father. I'm terrified of airplanes, I just failed out of college, and I'm looking into alternative spiritual forms because I will never have anything to do with organized religion or any Christian-based spiritualities again.