Which Transits Matter?

Silversong · Dec 9, 2013

Hello Everyone

I have a sort of technical question about Transits in general (so I didn't think it would fit in Natal Astrology or Read My Chart): Does it matter whether there is already an aspect between the transiting planet and the natal planet in the natal chart? For example, say I don't have Sun and Saturn in aspect in my natal chart, does transiting Saturn still have an effect on my natal Sun when they are in aspect alignment?

I was wondering because I recall reading somewhere on this forum that some astrologers don't bother considering aspects between a transiting planet and a natal planet as influential upon the person unless those planets already have some kind of an aspect in the natal chart.

I still have no idea what my particular style of interpretation might be (I'm still trying to get the basics down!), but I wondered if this is a valid manner of looking at transits that I should be aware of, or if I picked up on something incorrect.

Thanks!

mdinaz · Dec 9, 2013

Silversong said:
Hello Everyone

I have a sort of technical question about Transits in general (so I didn't think it would fit in Natal Astrology or Read My Chart): Does it matter whether there is already an aspect between the transiting planet and the natal planet in the natal chart? For example, say I don't have Sun and Saturn in aspect in my natal chart, does transiting Saturn still have an effect on my natal Sun when they are in aspect alignment?

I was wondering because I recall reading somewhere on this forum that some astrologers don't bother considering aspects between a transiting planet and a natal planet as influential upon the person unless those planets already have some kind of an aspect in the natal chart.

I still have no idea what my particular style of interpretation might be (I'm still trying to get the basics down!), but I wondered if this is a valid manner of looking at transits that I should be aware of, or if I picked up on something incorrect.

Thanks!

I personally think they do matter - they just may or may not trigger massive life-changing events if the planets in question do not have an aspect already, only because that energy is not being further amplified. I still think they will have an effect however, how can they not? I currently have transiting Neptune square my natal Mercury, and I have felt and dealt with every aspect of it, despite Neptune and Mercury having no natal aspect in my chart. This is a two-year transit, how can it not have an effect? It may not matter for fast moving planets, like a transiting Venus square Moon if those two make no natal aspect - but for slow moving planets, definitely, IMHO.

Zarathu · Dec 9, 2013

mdinaz said:
I personally think they do matter - they just may or may not trigger massive life-changing events if the planets in question do not have an aspect already, only because that energy is not being further amplified.

Various astrologers from Carter to Weigarten to Blaschke to Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson to Kt Boehrer have repeatedly affirmed that transits to planets that the transiting planet has no Ptolemaic relationship in the natal chart, will not trigger massive life changing events----as mdinaz, also affirms.

But I also agree, that they are not without influence. Noel Tyl has shown categorically that they have an influence on what you think and how you feel, even if they don't tend to influence actual events in the world.

Silversong · Dec 9, 2013

Thank you, mdinaz and Zarathu!

I really appreciate getting distinctions like this. :joyful:

So when the two planets don't have a natal aspect, the transit aspect will have a more subtle/internal effect, and conversely, when they do, that transit aspect will have a more pronounced and external effect.

That makes the matter of looking at my major upcoming transits less intimidating and confusing! :lol:

Zarathu · Dec 9, 2013

Silversong said:
So when the two planets don't have a natal aspect, the transit aspect will have a more subtle/internal effect, and conversely, when they do, that transit aspect will have a more pronounced and external effect.

I think that's a pretty accurate statement, IMO, at least.

JUPITERASC · Dec 9, 2013

Silversong said:
Hello Everyone

I have a sort of technical question about Transits in general (so I didn't think it would fit in Natal Astrology or Read My Chart): Does it matter whether there is already an aspect between the transiting planet and the natal planet in the natal chart? For example, say I don't have Sun and Saturn in aspect in my natal chart, does transiting Saturn still have an effect on my natal Sun when they are in aspect alignment?

I was wondering because I recall reading somewhere on this forum that some astrologers don't bother considering aspects between a transiting planet and a natal planet as influential upon the person unless those planets already have some kind of an aspect in the natal chart.

I still have no idea what my particular style of interpretation might be (I'm still trying to get the basics down!), but I wondered if this is a valid manner of looking at transits that I should be aware of, or if I picked up on something incorrect.

Thanks!

As BobZemco was fond of commenting

'.....Astrology is Planet, Sign, House, Aspect, Reception. Always'

How people are affected by a particular transiting Planet in aspect with a natal Planet
depends on, Planet, Sign, House, Aspect and Reception.

So note the Signs and Houses, look for Reception, look at the Term Rulers.

Silversong · Dec 9, 2013

Errm, JupiterASC,

In terms of your method, I am not completely certain that I follow:

In terms of which houses both planets are in: aside from paying attention to those particular parts of life being affected, does the strength of the aspect itself become measured on a balance? For example, an angular house versus a succedent house? Or two cadent houses being considered? Does the strength of the transit get shifted based on those groupings as well?

And then, after I consider what signs and houses the transiting and natal planets are in, I would consider reception? Why? Do you mean mutual reception? Dispositors? What does that mean in this case?

And then there's term rulers.... I don't even know... :andy:

Sorry for asking obvious questions- I haven't focused on traditional methods...

JUPITERASC · Dec 9, 2013

Silversong said:
Errm, JupiterASC,

In terms of your method, I am not completely certain that I follow:

Begin with the planet and learn its significations or associations
- for example the sun
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/sun.html
the margin to the left of the page provides links to all the planets
and their significations BOTH traditional AND modern :smile:

Silversong said:
In terms of which houses both planets are in: aside from paying attention to those particular parts of life being affected, does the strength of the aspect itself become measured on a balance? For example, an angular house versus a succedent house? Or two cadent houses being considered? Does the strength of the transit get shifted based on those groupings as well?

Houses have different levels of strength. The order of strength of the houses is
1, 10, 7, 4, 11, 5, 9, 3, 2, 8, 6, 12

QUOTE

'....The houses are not all equal in strength and power. If a planet is located in an angular house, it is much more forceful in its effects than it would be in a cadent house.

On page 48 of Christian Astrology Lilly writes:

The angles are most powerful, the succeedents are next in virtue, the cadents poor, and of little efficacy: the succeedent houses follow the angles, the cadents come next [after] the succeedents. In force and virtue they stand so in order:
The meaning whereof is this,
that two planets equally dignified,
the one in the Ascendant,
the other in the tenth house,
you shall judge the planet in the Ascendant somewhat of more power to effect what he is significator of,
than he that is in the tenth:
do so in the rest as they stand in order,
remembering that planets in angles do more forcibly show their effects...' http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary1d.html

Transiting planets are influenced by the houses they transit

Silversong said:
And then, after I consider what signs and houses the transiting and natal planets are in, I would consider reception? Why? Do you mean mutual reception? Dispositors? What does that mean in this case?

A detailed explanation of both reception and mutual reception http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig6.html

QUOTE

'....11th century Arabic astrologer Al-Biruni described reception as a planet arriving in the dignities of another and offering a compliment - 'your servant' or 'neighbour'.

In giving the visitor 'a reception' there is an implication of tolerance and attention from the host, as well as an element of influence and control.

Venus is said to 'receive' the Sun in Libra because he is visiting her sign.

In this capacity Venus is known as the Sun's dispositor.

Traditional works frequently advise us to consider the strength of a planet's dispositor when evaluating its own condition because a dispositor's well being influences any planet in its sign....'

'...Remembering that the ancients referred to the signs as 'houses', the influence of a dispositor can be likened to that of a property owner towards a residing visitor in his or her home. The owner's benevolence, well-being and disposition towards the guest reflects generally upon the comfort of his stay. It is always a bad indication to find a planet in a hostile relationship with its own dispositor, as it is to find the dispositor weak or badly afflicted. Sun in Libra is also received, to a lesser degree, by Saturn since he has dignity in Libra by exaltation. If chart is nocturnal, Mercury offers a milder reception as ruler of the triplicity. IF Sun be at 25 Libra, the minor receptions by term and face are from Mars and Jupiter respectively. In this degree then, the Sun is received by (and therefore has some familiarity with) all the traditional planets except the Moon....'

Silversong said:
And then there's term rulers.... I don't even know...

The Traditional Table of Essential Dignities of the Planets
has a column headed 'THE TERMS OF THE PLANETS'

The Term Rulers each have a certain specified number of DEGREES that they 'rule' over

So
for example,

a planet at 7 degrees Aries

reading along line one of the table
is in the Sign of Aries
The House of Mars
The Exaltation of the Sun
The Triplicity of Sun by Day
The Triplicity of Jupiter by Night
And the TERMS OF VENUS
And the Face of Mars

IF THAT PLANET IS INSTEAD LOCATED AT 5 DEGREES OF ARIES

then

that planet is in the TERMS of Jupiter

Silversong said:
Sorry for asking obvious questions- I haven't focused on traditional methods...

That's ok, I'm no expert either. We're all students of astrology, that's our common factor we share. Traditional is not everyone's interest,
but if you are interested and study,
then the rewards are endless regarding greater understanding of a natal chart

Zarathu · Dec 9, 2013

Silversong said:
Sorry for asking obvious questions- I haven't focused on traditional methods...

Or, as an alternative, you could use the Modern method developed using mathematical statistical method with 30,000+ charts, each with a 79 page questionnaire. This will give you a decimal level of power and friction for every planet, house, sign, and aspect in your chart.

I, myself, prefer the decimal accuracy, and certainty of the modern developed method.

But to each his own.

dr. farr · Dec 9, 2013

I myself do not use transit aspects (whether or not the transiting planet had an aspect to the planet in the natal) Regarding transits I follow the real oldtime perspective of the Greco-Romans (and of Vedic astrology too) and only consider transit influences:
1) by conjunction (or Parallel of declination)
and
2) by ingress (ie a transiting planet passing into a house/sign)
However, I do consider it effectual when a transiting planet conjuncts a natal planet position whether or not any relationship between the 2 existed in the natal chart.

In symbolic directions, however, I follow Carter and consider all aspects by such directions, and-also like Carter regarding symbolic directions-I count these directional aspects as effectual whether or not the directing planet had any connection with the directionally aspected planet in the original natal chart.

Zarathu · Dec 9, 2013

Actually, I don't use transit aspects either.

I use tertiary and minor progressions, with lunar and planetary returns. I've never found transits to be very useful.

When I was predicting numbers in the lottery I used 2ndary progressions aspecting natal planets. That worked. Transits never did anything

Rosie7 · Dec 10, 2013

I have been studying astrology since 1997 and use Solarfire to monitor transits, which I do often -- probably too often. Anywho, I pay close attention to what transiting planets aspect my natal Saturn; a planet that has no aspects natally but constitute the handle of planets in my sling chart. Whenever planets activate my Saturn I feel this big time. For this reason, I differ from astrologers that do not consider transits to unaspected natal planets. I consider transits to all natal planets as relevant as each natal planet is holistically integrated and those connections can be understood through delineation.

I also pay attention to planets transiting natal houses. For instance, I worked with a gal who knew her exact birth time and shared her information. I could always sense when transiting moon was in her 12 house because she became so ultra sensitive to social settings.

I find it so interesting how each astrologer has their own system; a system that is deeply symbolic and works in a manner uniquely meaningful to them.

dr. farr · Dec 10, 2013

Rosie7 said:
I also pay attention to transits to the particular natal houses.

These are the "ingress transits" whcih I referred to in my earlier post, and which were one of the 2 types of transits considered in oldtime Greco-Roman astrology (along with conjunctional transits) The Nadi branch of Vedic astrology, also gives much attention to these types of transits, especially of the slower-moving planets (Jupiter and Saturn) and the Nodes (which they call Rahu and Ketu)...

Lin · Dec 10, 2013

It would really help to have an example on this thread.

I am a believer in transits. The natal chart is the symbolic map of the way you are potentially going to experience your life.

Transits are what is happening NOW...and EACH planet, every day will either support or undermine something it is touching. Of course the transits must be in "orb" to affect a natal planet.

EXCEPT: ANY planet entering another house or hemisphere ....the larger the planet the more effect....will influence that "area" even if it is not making an aspect at that moment.
Transits show one what to LOOK AT in one's life. Transits into a house without planets natally suddenly gives one THAT ENERGY in that house for the whole time it's transitting that house.

Transits are powerful. Get to know them intimately.
LIN

JUPITERASC · Dec 10, 2013

Lin said:
It would really help to have an example on this thread.

I am a believer in transits. The natal chart is the symbolic map of the way you are potentially going to experience your life.

Transits are what is happening NOW...and EACH planet, every day will either support or undermine something it is touching. Of course the transits must be in "orb" to affect a natal planet.

EXCEPT: ANY planet entering another house or hemisphere ....the larger the planet the more effect....will influence that "area" even if it is not making an aspect at that moment.
Transits show one what to LOOK AT in one's life. Transits into a house without planets natally suddenly gives one THAT ENERGY in that house for the whole time it's transitting that house.

Transits are powerful. Get to know them intimately.
LIN

The Moon is the fastest moving planet
and therefore most easily tracked
simply because each month the moon completes 2.5 days in each of the 12 Signs/Houses

SO

Note which SIGN the Moon is transiting
Note which NATAL HOUSE the Moon is transiting
Note in particular when Moon transits Ascendant, Descendant, MC or IC

Keep a notebook/astrological diary briefly noting events as Moon changes Signs/Houses of your natal chart
Great way to gain understanding of Moon transits to your natal chart

Mercury - is the next fastest moving planet
Venus - the third fastest moving planet

Sun does not orbit Earth but SEEMS to
so another planet to track from House to House and Sign to Sign is the Sun
Sun spends ONE MONTH in each natal House/Sign

Mercury orbits the Sun in 88 DAYS
and takes 88 DAYS to go once round a natal chart
and spends approximately ONE WEEK in each Sign of a natal chart
and longer than a week when retrograding

Venus orbits the Sun in 224.7 DAYS
and takes 224.7 days to go once round a natal chart
and spends almost TWENTY DAYS in each sign of the natal chart
and longer than twenty days when retrograding

Mars takes two years approximately to transit the entire natal chart
and spends approximately TWO MONTHS in each sign of the natal chart
and longer when retrograding

Jupiter takes twelve years to transit the natal chart and spends approximately ONE YEAR in each natal Sign/House
and longer when retrograding

Saturn takes thirty years to transit the natal chart and spends 2.5 years in each natal House/Sign
and longer when retrograding

TO HELP TRACK TRANSITS ASTRODIENST HAS A FREE 6000 YEAR EPHEMERIS http://www.astro.com/swisseph/swepha_e.htm

FOR EXAMPLE
2013 http://www.astro.com/swisseph/ae/2000/ae_2013.pdf

dr. farr · Dec 11, 2013

Lin said:
Transits are powerful. Get to know them intimately.
LIN

I completely agree with this-only that I limit these potent configurations to conjunctional and ingress transits (following here the outlook of oldtime Greco-Roman astrology, and of Vedic Nadi astrology to a certain extent)...

Silversong · Dec 11, 2013

Hello Everyone!

I haven't disappeared! I'm now looking at the new posts. I'm kind of glad that I drummed up so much conversation! :joyful:

Silversong · Dec 11, 2013

I've decided to post this reply first because I realized that I will have to be more specific after all! :lol:

Thank You for commenting, Lin!!!

Good point: I will explain myself a little bit more!

As of Dec 8th, Saturn is in the 18th degree of Scorpio, which is exactly opposite my Sun (18 Taurus) and exactly conjunct my Pluto. By the way, my Sun is in the 6th house, with my Pluto and Transiting Saturn in the 12th.

While I like to look at the movements of the planets in PlanetWatcher (just to see where they all are on a given day), I never tried to make any kind of interpretations of the planets' movements as they compare to my natal chart because I am simply not knowledgeable enough to do it. But with the seriousness I see regarding Saturn transits, I felt like I have to pay attention to Saturn being on the opposition between my Sun and Pluto- since it's my closest aspect. That's what started me asking about Transits in the first place, because I was wondering if it was even necessary for me to pay attention to Saturn being here.

Also, speaking as a beginner, how does one even go about trying to understand the meanings of the planets in current time while also learning about the planets as they were at one's birth? Every time I try to simplify things a little to learn about them better, I get pulled right back into looking at everything as a whole- which is so big and multi-layered that it's tiring! :pinched:

Silversong · Dec 11, 2013

Thanks, JupiterASC.

I tried to apply your instructions to transiting Saturn opposite my natal Sun (as I mentioned in my previous post):

Ok, I am looking at transiting Saturn and my Sun. They don't have a natal aspect (except in sign, I suppose- my Saturn is in Aquarius)

However, Saturn is currently in my Scorpio 12th house with my Pluto. The aspect in question is an opposition in the 12th and 6th houses. It is partile at the moment. However, with those house positions, it's not likely to be very influential within this framework.

This part about reception is a little clearer: As far as my Taurus Sun is concerned, his reception with Venus is somewhat bad. My Venus, while in Cancer (which isn't that bad for her) is in the 8th house and only has one aspect- which is a square with my Moon. So she pretty much isn't receiving my Sun at her best, which I guess weakens the quality of my Taurus as it affects my Sun.

On the other side with Saturn- the 12th house is probably not that appealing to most planets, but certainly not a structure-oriented one as he. And then there's Scorpio. I would argue that, except for the emotional nature within Scorpio, Saturn would be reasonably ok in this sign. My Mars is in Cancer, though, so he's not in a good place for reception with Saturn, either. And then my Pluto and transiting Saturn are.

Woah! I am not at all ready to handle all of those moving parts with that chart of Terms. Thanks for trying to break it down a bit, though.
Maybe as I get better, I can consider studying this in more depth...

Silversong · Dec 11, 2013

Hi Dr. Farr! Thanks for stopping by!

In terms of only looking at transiting planets by conjunctions and movements into signs or houses, I definitely would not be all over the place trying to understand what exactly each movement of the planets means for me personally.
So there is much appeal in this approach. :lol:

However, I wonder what then that says about transiting Saturn being in my 12th house. He's been there for a good while, and even moved back into my 11th for a little while when he went retrograde. However, nothing really notable happened in either crossover.... Regardless, there wouldn't be any missing his movement over my Ascendant, right? :sideways:

-------

Hello Zarathu,

Yes, I do like looking at my chart with the rankings and numbers in terms of Astrodynes. I am curious about the different ways of looking at transits, though.

As far as your points about Progressions... I had no idea how to look at Progressions whenever I saw chapters on them or threads about them here. I am in an on-going struggle to understand my own chart and what it says about me (and I thank you for your aid on this)- and so I really have only just now decided to attempt asking about transits because of where Saturn is at the moment.

But my chart's progressions...? I feel like that would be equally difficult to explore at the moment as transits, since in both cases, by the time I made sense of what's important, that time has passed! :pinched:

However, I now wonder if I should be paying more attention to my progressed charts and how to make sense of them right now... I guess at this point, I would be asking even more questions. :innocent:

Which Transits Matter?

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