Thoughts: Chart Ruler in the 12th House

[applesandlilacs]

This topic is my new rabbit hole. Any thoughts or experience on the topic? The research so far is mixed. Thanks in advanced for your input.




Blessings,
Amber

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by applesandlilacs

This topic is my new rabbit hole.
Any thoughts or experience on the topic?
The research so far is mixed.
Thanks in advanced for your input.
Blessings,
Amber

Ex-President George W Bush = Leo Ascendant, SUN in 12th house

The 12th house represents matters that are hidden, restrained, secret
incapable of action or of being fully understood.
Traditionally, it is a wholly unfortunate house
associated with sad events, sorrow
anguish of mind, tribulation, captivity, imprisonment, persecution, hard labour
all manner of affliction and self-undoing.
It represents places that are denied access to public view
particularly those concerned with seclusion or isolation
or where one is restricted from living a carefree life-style
such as institutions or prisons.
Many sources attribute monasteries to the 12th house as places of isolation
but otherwise monks and nuns belong to the 9th house
which represents religious concerns.
12th house has rulership over scandals generally
personal fears and skeletons in the family closet.
12th house significations include secret, unknown enemies
such men as maliciously undermine their neighbours or inform secretly against them:
traitors, spies
weakness, infirmity and bondage http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h12.html

[Solar Flare]

What do you mean by a chart ruler? The ruler of the ascendant?

If you have a particular chart you're talking about, it's better to post it. It's important because, for example, the chart ruler you're talking about can change its house location with another house system.

[applesandlilacs]

Originally Posted by Solar Flare

What do you mean by a chart ruler? The ruler of the ascendant?

If you have a particular chart you're talking about, it's better to post it. It's important because, for example, the chart ruler you're talking about can change its house location with another house system.

I became interested because of my own chart, but it's just a generalized question.

Personally, I am a Scorpio rising with Pluto in the 12th house (no matter the system). Some articles I have read disputes Pluto as Scorpio's ruling planet, and say Mars is the ruling planet and Pluto is just a co-ruler Also, My sister is Taurus Rising and has Venus in the 12 house.

At this time I am just casting a wide net and seeing what I find.

Thanks again,
Amber

[Solar Flare]

Originally Posted by applesandlilacs

I became interested because of my own chart, but it's just a generalized question.

Personally, I am a Scorpio rising with Pluto in the 12th house (no matter the system). Some articles I have read disputes Pluto as Scorpio's ruling planet, and say Mars is the ruling planet and Pluto is just a co-ruler Also, My sister is Taurus Rising and has Venus in the 12 house.

At this time I am just casting a wide net and seeing what I find.

Thanks again,
Amber

Some astrologers insist that Pluto rules Scorpio, others insist that it's Mars. I favor the latter opinion because it makes more sense to me but others might disagree. I don't use the outer planets anyway. But this topic is debated among many astrologers and as there is no overall conclusion, you'll just have to stick with one approach or the other eventually. So in your case, I'd look at the condition of Mars and its house position, not Pluto. Btw, your sister has Venus in Aries, right?

Generally, the 12th house is the most unfortunate house of all. Pretty much all things ruled by it are listed by JA above. I wouldn't necessarily call the ascendant ruler the ruler of your entire chart (imo, choosing one planet as the chart ruler is an ambiguous idea which isn't in itself informative) but it's extremely important nonetheless because it rules your general personality, health and well-being. With the ascendant ruler in the 12th house the native can be very secluded, drawn to solitude, vulnerable to life threats and misery and exposed to destructive actions performed by secret enemies and enviers. Sahl ibn Bishr writes about this:

If it [the Lord of the Ascendant] were in the twelfth, he will have many enemies and rivals, and he will be their master or overcomer or victor if it were strong and fortunate there; without this, were it weak and unfortunate, say the contrary.

So as Sahl says, the overall theme of the 12th house stays the same (enemies and rivals), but it can be significantly improved if the ascendant ruler is strong. The strength can be determined in plenty of ways so here you'd need a chart to judge if the planet is strong or weak.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by applesandlilacs

I became interested because of my own chart,
but it's just a generalized question.

Personally, I am a Scorpio rising with Pluto in the 12th house (no matter the system).
Some articles I have read disputes Pluto as Scorpio's ruling planet
and say Mars is the ruling planet and Pluto is just a co-ruler
Also, My sister is Taurus Rising and has Venus in the 12 house.

At this time I am just casting a wide net and seeing what I find.

Thanks again,
Amber

by the way
dwarf planet pluto is one of many similar objects in the Kuiper Belt
so if pluto is considered important, then they are as well

WHY PLUTO IS NO LONGER A PLANET http://www.universetoday.com/13573/w...nger-a-planet/

Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi

To explain further, there are a few philosophical issues that arise when using the outer planets. It's true that many more classically oriented astrologers use them, but they tend to regard them as fainter fixed stars, so their importance and abilities tend to be scaled back or ignored unless they are on an angle or conjunct some important planet.

Dirius is correct in noting that the fact the outers carry no visible light is a major detriment to their inclusion into the classical framework. Astrology evolved alongside ancient optical theories and these theories still permeate astrological discourse to this day. Planets in aspect are said to "see" or "regard" one another and their light is often considered a transmitter of their influence.

The word "planet" originally evolved from the Greek "planetes aster", or "wandering star" and referred to the Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Jupiter, Mars, and Saturn whose motion could be detected against the backdrop of fixed stars that are stable in their relative distance from one another, but all move together as one large group. Today we have redefined what a planet is to serve our own categorical needs. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's important to remember that we, as astrologers, have organizational needs that are different from those of astronomy.

Another issue with the outer planets in general is that they lack much of the tools that the classical planets have. This isn't just referring to dignities (though that is a large part of it), but they also lack nature, sect, gender, years, winds, orbs, signatures, etc. This may all seem superfluous or unnecessary, but its significance really cannot be overstated. Without these associations, the outer planets are essentially blank orbs without instruction or meaning.

Finally, there is the issue with the meanings contemporary astrologers have given to them. Mostly they either 1) don't make sense within their own context or 2) are already taken by another planet.

About the first, a lot of the meanings of the planets have been assigned to them based on mythological interpretations or perceived mundane events happening around the time of their discovery. A lot of the mythological meanings are cherry picked and often nonsensical, like Uranus ruling rebellion, but in the myth Ouranos is the tyrannical dictator, not the freedom fighter. The mundane events are definitely cherry picked as there are many important events happening around the world at any given time. Pluto was discovered in 1930 and has taken on an association with nuclear force, but when I hear 1930s I think Great Depression and I've never heard anyone associate Pluto with financial ruination.

About the second, each of the outer planets have significations that are more or less plucked from the classical planets. Uranus's reported instability and recklessness can be found in Mercury and Mars. Neptune's illusions and mysticism can be found in the Moon. Pluto's transformation and general heavy-handedness are the domains of Mercury and Saturn. Not only does this create strange, cross-breed planets, but it makes the classical planets into flat characters when their meanings and significations are much more multifaceted in the tradition.

[muchacho]

Originally Posted by applesandlilacs

This topic is my new rabbit hole. Any thoughts or experience on the topic? The research so far is mixed. Thanks in advanced for your input.




Blessings,
Amber

My wife has that placement. She's lived and worked abroad a lot and mostly in multinational companies.

[muchacho]

Originally Posted by Solar Flare

Generally, the 12th house is the most unfortunate house of all.

Actually, the 8th is the most inauspicious of all the houses. The 12th is a fairly neutral place in comparison.

[Solar Flare]

Originally Posted by muchacho

Actually, the 8th is the most inauspicious of all the houses. The 12th is a fairly neutral place in comparison.

Hm, interesting. I wonder why is that? All sources I've seen describe the 12th house as the worst house, then the 6th, and only then the 8th. The 8th house is succeedent, so at least it's not as weak as the cadent 12th and 6th. Maybe the approach to this is slightly different in Vedic astrology?

[applesandlilacs]

Originally Posted by Solar Flare

Some astrologers insist that Pluto rules Scorpio, others insist that it's Mars. I favor the latter opinion because it makes more sense to me but others might disagree. I don't use the outer planets anyway. But this topic is debated among many astrologers and as there is no overall conclusion, you'll just have to stick with one approach or the other eventually. So in your case, I'd look at the condition of Mars and its house position, not Pluto. Btw, your sister has Venus in Aries, right?

Well, my Mars is in Cancer. Luckily it's in the 9th house. It's nicely aspected for the most part, aside for some semi-sextiles. It squares Pluto, but the orb is huge, 7 degree. There are asteroids there, but I don't know how I feel about them, yet. I'm still working on main concepts.

The other thing is that my Mars/Pluto midpoint is my Sun/Venus out of sign conjunct. That being said, I have a Stellium, so I have many midpoints that trigger my chart. I'll put my chart up for reference.

___
My sister's Venus is in Aries conjunct her 12th house cusp. She's our little hopeless Piscean romantic.

What I have noticed from my observation is that whatever (chart ruler or not) is in the 12th only works if you help others with whatever planets it is. A theory I am investigating.


Blessings,
Amber

[muchacho]

Originally Posted by Solar Flare

Hm, interesting. I wonder why is that? All sources I've seen describe the 12th house as the worst house, then the 6th, and only then the 8th. The 8th house is succeedent, so at least it's not as weak as the cadent 12th and 6th. Maybe the approach to this is slightly different in Vedic astrology?

Yes, the classification of the houses is slightly different. There are several groups and some houses belong to more than one group. And of the so-called evil houses (6, 8, 12) the 8th is the worst, the 12th is almost neutral and the 6th is somewhere in between. So it's basically the other way around.

[applesandlilacs]

I wanted to light this tunnel of inquiry back up. See if we could flesh out some of the ideas about it.

Thanks,

Amber

[Boston Guy]

Ever since I started to try to flesh out my own chart I also started to have a little fascination about the 12th House. Admittedly, I don't know much about it all, but I'm actively trying to! This being said, this is a topic of particular intrigue for me as well. Well, the 12th and the 5th are both of relative intrigue, since they appear rather prevalent in my chart.

Now my understanding of the 12th house is little. While I have no reason to refuse the legitimacy of some online sources, I'm often at a disadvantage in not knowing where to start! Googling topics seem to come up with vague and over-encompassing answers to my rather specific queries.

For example; why have I heard that the 12th House is one of "magick" (not my spelling, but someone else's). Like was said previously on this thread regarding former President Bush, I too have my Sun in the 12th. I hope to learn more from the expertise here on the forum on this topic.

Cheers!

[applesandlilacs]

My big thing is that I can't find case study type of information. I've read stuff that the 12th house is about institutions, it's about the unseen, it's about that it's about enemies, but there's never anything that says here's 500 charts that show that this pattern of information is correct.

I just feel like there can't always be one way for something to play out. It's like saying everybody goes to the emergency room for the same reason. They may all be in the same place, but how they got there more often than not is different.

Taking this train of thought and applying it:

Say you have a lot of squares to malefic planets then maybe you will have hidden enemies and strife. Or, what if you have a chart that shows a lot of intuition at play and planet(s) in 12th house only helps you connect to the unseen threads that connect all of us.

Like with all things nothing is in a vacuum, it's affected by the other chart placements. Maybe, the 12th house planet(s) are one of the most sensitive to the other chart placement.



I'm starting to collect charts and compare to see if there is a pattern. So, far I just have a lot of 12th house Venus, and Chiron. We'll have to wait and see what it adds up to.

Blessings,
Amber

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by Boston Guy

Ever since I started to try to flesh out my own chart I also started to have a little fascination about the 12th House. Admittedly, I don't know much about it all, but I'm actively trying to! This being said, this is a topic of particular intrigue for me as well. Well, the 12th and the 5th are both of relative intrigue, since they appear rather prevalent in my chart.

Now my understanding of the 12th house is little. While I have no reason to refuse the legitimacy of some online sources, I'm often at a disadvantage in not knowing where to start! Googling topics seem to come up with vague and over-encompassing answers to my rather specific queries.

For example;
why have I heard
that the 12th House is one of "magick"

(not my spelling, but someone else's). Like was said previously on this thread regarding former President Bush, I too have my Sun in the 12th. I hope to learn more from the expertise here on the forum on this topic.

Cheers!

12th house represents matters that are hidden, secret
aka "occult"from Latin occultare ‘secrete’
frequentative of occulere ‘conceal’
based on celare ‘to hide’
the adjective and noun from occult- ‘covered over’, from the verb occulere.

[fetinija]

Hello ... happy mercury retrograde....I it is a difficult mysterious placement...

I’m Leo ascendant with Chart ruler, cancer sun in 12th. It’s a double win, chart ruler and sun in 12th house, plus Mercury and Venus in 12th.

In short about my life so far...I grew up without father; since early age I wanted to move to far foreign lands to be away from my country, as I never felt patriotic about it and couldn’t associate myself with the country...after university I packed my bags and I emigrated forever. I have to say that I’m somehow on one side proud and feeling good about myself but on other hand I’m shy, quite and introverted. Since childhood I have been fascinated by stars and could watch them for hours and now I’m studying astrology for hours. I do feel that i gain my power when I’m alone and I prefer to be behind closed doors and definitely have panick attack in big crowds...

In books I have read that 12th house is associated with prison, drugs, hospitals, strip clubs and etc... and I could see why they say it ...as the 12th house energy is heavy and goes deep in veins, the tests you have to survive are hard. I started to live alone at the age of 12 in house without water, shower, wc or other comforts ...only way to go through it was to talk every evening with universal power, energy, believing in it and asking for inner strenght and light...without hope or inner strenght... it would have been easy to end up in the wrong places.

With chart ruler and sun in 12th house, I would say I still don’t know who I am as my ego is pretty dissolved, as sometimes I just feel like a soul who appreciates the opportunity to be here and to be alive, to enjoy the every single moment of sun, rain, the colors and smells in flowers, because I know that there will be a moment when I won’t be able to do it..

[applesandlilacs]

Originally Posted by fetinija

Hello ... happy mercury retrograde....I it is a difficult mysterious placement...

I’m Leo ascendant with Chart ruler, cancer sun in 12th. It’s a double win, chart ruler and sun in 12th house, plus Mercury and Venus in 12th.

In short about my life so far...I grew up without father; since early age I wanted to move to far foreign lands to be away from my country, as I never felt patriotic about it and couldn’t associate myself with the country...after university I packed my bags and I emigrated forever. I have to say that I’m somehow on one side proud and feeling good about myself but on other hand I’m shy, quite and introverted. Since childhood I have been fascinated by stars and could watch them for hours and now I’m studying astrology for hours. I do feel that i gain my power when I’m alone and I prefer to be behind closed doors and definitely have panick attack in big crowds...

In books I have read that 12th house is associated with prison, drugs, hospitals, strip clubs and etc... and I could see why they say it ...as the 12th house energy is heavy and goes deep in veins, the tests you have to survive are hard. I started to live alone at the age of 12 in house without water, shower, wc or other comforts ...only way to go through it was to talk every evening with universal power, energy, believing in it and asking for inner strenght and light...without hope or inner strenght... it would have been easy to end up in the wrong places.

With chart ruler and sun in 12th house, I would say I still don’t know who I am as my ego is pretty dissolved, as sometimes I just feel like a soul who appreciates the opportunity to be here and to be alive, to enjoy the every single moment of sun, rain, the colors and smells in flowers, because I know that there will be a moment when I won’t be able to do it..

Thank-you for your contribution. That's a lot of personal planets in the 12th house, are any of them near the ASC?

Seems like you possess a quiet courage. You must have some type of ego (in psychology terms) to physically manifest yourself in the world by going to school and explore the world.

Blessings,
Amber

[Chelsea123]

Originally Posted by applesandlilacs

This topic is my new rabbit hole. Any thoughts or experience on the topic? The research so far is mixed. Thanks in advanced for your input.




Blessings,
Amber

It seems as though everyone has this basic idea of what the 12th house really means. There’s a lot of misconceptions about it. The 12th House is more spiritual than anything. It’s about connecting with that spirit/higher power and letting that energy flow through you. The 12th House is a gift. Don’t be mistaken. You have abilities that could serve for humanity but this may not always be a conscious thing. The 12th house, when understanding the REAL influences, can make you into something bigger than yourself. And no other house has this power. I have three planets in this house, including my chart ruler. It is the opposite of the 1st, where as it’s teaching you to use your abilities in a selfless way. I suggest reading books on the 12th house and not googling because google has a way of taking away the magic of this house.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by Chelsea123

It seems as though everyone has this basic idea of what the 12th house really means. There’s a lot of misconceptions about it. The 12th House is more spiritual than anything. It’s about connecting with that spirit/higher power and letting that energy flow through you. The 12th House is a gift. Don’t be mistaken. You have abilities that could serve for humanity but this may not always be a conscious thing. The 12th house, when understanding the REAL influences, can make you into something bigger than yourself. And no other house has this power. I have three planets in this house, including my chart ruler. It is the opposite of the 1st, where as it’s teaching you to use your abilities in a selfless way. I suggest reading books on the 12th house and not googling because google has a way of taking away the magic of this house.

Main Rulerships
12th house represents matters that are hidden, restrained, secret
incapable of action or of being fully understood.
Traditionally, 12th is a wholly unfortunate house, associated with sad events
sorrow, anguish of mind, tribulation, captivity, imprisonment, persecution, hard labour
all manner of affliction and self-undoing.
12th represents places that are denied access to public view
particularly those concerned with seclusion or isolation
or where one is restricted from living a carefree life-style
such as institutions or prisons.
Many sources attribute monasteries to the 12th house as places of isolation
but otherwise monks and nuns belong to the 9th house
which represents religious concerns.
12th has rulership over scandals generally, personal fears
and skeletons in the family closet.
12th significations include secret, unknown enemies
such men as maliciously undermine their neighbours or inform secretly against them:
traitors, spies; weakness, infirmity and bondage http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h12.html

[greybeard]

8th house is concerned with magick. It is a house of power. Also the 6th, provided you understand what magick means.

[Witchyone]

My chart ruler is Venus, and I have Venus in Taurus in the 12th.

I definitely relate to many of the things you read about this placement. I have a fascination with prisons, asylums, places where people are hidden away. I've had some difficult and inappropriate love relationships. My sun is in first, but if I shine too brightly for too long, I feel the need to hide away alone. I'm an open book about most things, but I'm protective and quiet about the most important things. I can keep a secret for life.

Have you noticed anything in your research from a broader perspective? Do you think having the chart ruler in 12th changes the way it operates in a chart?

[normak]

Originally Posted by muchacho

Yes, the classification of the houses is slightly different. There are several groups and some houses belong to more than one group. And of the so-called evil houses (6, 8, 12) the 8th is the worst, the 12th is almost neutral and the 6th is somewhere in between. So it's basically the other way around.

Guess I'm *******, then. My chart ruler (Mercury) is in the 8th. Also, my moon is in Scorpio in the 6th, conjunct Jupiter. I have an (ironically) love-hate relationship with Pluto.

[Samantha Bean]

Pretty much an argument between traditional and modern astrological viewpoints. Neither will back down.

[Sweetness]

I came across this thread while looking for experiences of people with the ruler of their ascendant in the 12th house. Nice, I hope someone is still interested to continue the conversation.

I am a Cancer Sun (4) with Leo Ascendant (4). My sun is in the twelfth house as are my Mercury (26), South Node (27) and Mars (28) Respectively rulers of the 1st, 3d, 11th, 4th and 10th house)

I have been studying many 12th house charts, also of celebrities. You search for some 12th house placement and you will get charts with one or more planets and points there. Of many you can find personal information, so you have material to check things.

I have seen that the biggest difference in how easy or difficult these placements work out is the condition of these planets. Are they in a sign they feel good in, do they have aspects with well placed planets or points.

How is the overall strength of the planets there and which house(s) do they represent.

This makes the difference between how such more difficult placements will work out, Happy planets are more likely to generate happy results than planets that have to struggle to express themselves.

Many aspects to these planets are sources to get that inner energy out. Few aspects to these planets makes it more difficult, because they are unconscious energies and with a little help they express themselves easier.
The 12th house often tells about inner energy sources that the person is not aware of that he has them, but they build up inside them any way. So releasing them is important in some form or another. That is probably why quite a few artist in any form have 12h house placements. There is a lot of inside creative energy to express in many creative forms. The sign of the house and which house rulers are there will show how.

I new many heardships in my life. From a very young age.
My mom was in a poor condition when pregnant of me. Bad relationship with my father, no house, no food etc.
My parents were young, not ready, using drugs, making two more kids, fighting aggressive fights, having an open relationship that neither of them could handle. Father often absent, including in jail. And then my mother left us when I was 8.

I took over the mother role for my younger brother and sisters and felt like a failure because I couldn't be a good mom.
My father was addicted to gambling and was many nights away. I was always in panic when he left, sometimes screaming from my bedroom window to place don't leave us alone. I developed migraine in that time. There was no money for food, so cooking often was very sober... And I felt I failed. My father couldn't be made happy, my kids had nothing to eat, and I was helpless, couldn't change a thing.

I got burned when I was 2, had 3 times eye surgery before I was 3, fell in glass etc. Broke my front teeth at 11 and my parents did not take me to a dentist to repair it, so I reached puberty without front teeth...

Although I know also happiness in relationships I have a difficult time keeping them. Sometimes really tough relationships.

I can continue like this, but the 12th house can be a tough one.
I now depression very well, but know also the pearls that lay often underneath them. But I know that now I am 47 and know better that I have crisis sometimes in my way of growth.
It's easier to deal with it.

I meditate a lot. I have been visiting ashrams, also in India since I was 17.
I lived in India also for 6 years. The 12th house can also tell about living abroad. It really has many signification possibilities. In Vedic astrology it is indeed seen as more positive, because it is a house of self undoing. Anti materialistic. Undoing of ego, looking for a greater Oness. More aware of the collective. People with 12th house placements can often go very deep into themselves and also in unity.

The 12th house is an inner house. The house before the Ascendant. It's under the surFace, and you have to learn how to access it. I think.

I am also very creative, (Moon, ruler of 12th is in Sagittarius 5th house (28), conjunct Jupiter in Capricorn).

I think a 12th house with difficult positions will become easier with the years. As more and more of your unconscious will be made conscious and you learn how to work with these energies.

My South Node is also there. I feel that this makes it more difficult to let go of all this past. Cancer is already a stubborn keeper of memories and everything past. Leave victim feelings behind. Be accountable for myself.

Living in the present is an intense exercise for me, but I'm getting better. NLP and Mindfulness are helpful too.

I have to learn to make better choices, conscious choices. Choices that are not based in trauma. There is often trauma involved in 12th house placements. Therapy in whatever form can be very helpful, to have somebody watch this inside with you in this unconscious space.

I am a little stuck again. Where to go, what to do, things must change and then I get easily a paralized like feeling over me. This lasts a bit and then I can go again. This might be mars at his worse degree of the zodiac conjunct the south node in 12. No movement possible, no matter how I try.
Often some kind of illness will show up too. But it will always heal (pof, north node and Jupiter in 6 :-) )

Meditation helps me really tremendously by the way, it really brings me peace.

I hope this will help your investigation. If you like to see my chart I will search how to upload it.

I wonder if you recognize this difference of how this house works depending on planetary dignities.

Thank you all for this thread!

[greybeard]

Originally Posted by Sweetness

I came across this thread while looking for experiences of people with the ruler of ti8heir ascendant in the 12th house. Nice, I hope someone is still interested to continue the conversation.

I am a Cancer Sun (4) with Leo Ascendant (4). My sun is in the twelfth house as are my Mercury (26), South Node (27) and Mars (28) Respectively rulers of the 1st, 3d, 11th, 4th and 10th house)

I have been studying many 12th house charts, also of celebrities. You search for some 12th house placement and you will get charts with one or more planets and points there. Of many you can find personal information, so you have material to check things.

I have seen that the biggest difference in how easy or difficult these placements work out is the condition of these planets. Are they in a sign they feel good in, do they have aspects with well placed planets or points.

How is the overall strength of the planets there and which house(s) do they represent.

This makes the difference between how such more difficult placements will work out, Happy planets are more likely to generate happy results than planets that have to struggle to express themselves.

Many aspects to these planets are sources to get that inner energy out. Few aspects to these planets makes it more difficult, because they are unconscious energies and with a little help they express themselves easier.
The 12th house often tells about inner energy sources that the person is not aware of that he has them, but they build up inside them any way. So releasing them is important in some form or another. That is probably why quite a few artist in any form have 12h house placements. There is a lot of inside creative energy to express in many creative forms. The sign of the house and which house rulers are there will show how.

I new many heardships in my life. From a very young age.
My mom was in a poor condition when pregnant of me. Bad relationship with my father, no house, no food etc.
My parents were young, not ready, using drugs, making two more kids, fighting aggressive fights, having an open relationship that neither of them could handle. Father often absent, including in jail. And then my mother left us when I was 8.

I took over the mother role for my younger brother and sisters and felt like a failure because I couldn't be a good mom.
My father was addicted to gambling and was many nights away. I was always in panic when he left, sometimes screaming from my bedroom window to place don't leave us alone. I developed migraine in that time. There was no money for food, so cooking often was very sober... And I felt I failed. My father couldn't be made happy, my kids had nothing to eat, and I was helpless, couldn't change a thing.

I got burned when I was 2, had 3 times eye surgery before I was 3, fell in glass etc. Broke my front teeth at 11 and my parents did not take me to a dentist to repair it, so I reached puberty without front teeth...

Although I know also happiness in relationships I have a difficult time keeping them. Sometimes really tough relationships.

I can continue like this, but the 12th house can be a tough one.
I now depression very well, but know also the pearls that lay often underneath them. But I know that now I am 47 and know better that I have crisis sometimes in my way of growth.
It's easier to deal with it.

I meditate a lot. I have been visiting ashrams, also in India since I was 17.
I lived in India also for 6 years. The 12th house can also tell about living abroad. It really has many signification possibilities. In Vedic astrology it is indeed seen as more positive, because it is a house of self undoing. Anti materialistic. Undoing of ego, looking for a greater Oness. More aware of the collective. People with 12th house placements can often go very deep into themselves and also in unity.

The 12th house is an inner house. The house before the Ascendant. It's under the surFace, and you have to learn how to access it. I think.

I am also very creative, (Moon, ruler of 12th is in Sagittarius 5th house (28), conjunct Jupiter in Capricorn).

I think a 12th house with difficult positions will become easier with the years. As more and more of your unconscious will be made conscious and you learn how to work with these energies.

My South Node is also there. I feel that this makes it more difficult to let go of all this past. Cancer is already a stubborn keeper of memories and everything past. Leave victim feelings behind. Be accountable for myself.

Living in the present is an intense exercise for me, but I'm getting better. NLP and Mindfulness are helpful too.

I have to learn to make better choices, conscious choices. Choices that are not based in trauma. There is often trauma involved in 12th house placements. Therapy in whatever form can be very helpful, to have somebody watch this inside with you in this unconscious space.

I am a little stuck again. Where to go, what to do, things must change and then I get easily a paralized like feeling over me. This lasts a bit and then I can go again. This might be mars at his worse degree of the zodiac conjunct the south node in 12. No movement possible, no matter how I try.
Often some kind of illness will show up too. But it will always heal (pof, north node and Jupiter in 6 :-) )

Meditation helps me really tremendously by the way, it really brings me peace.

I hope this will help your investigation. If you like to see my chart I will search how to upload it.

I wonder if you recognize this difference of how this house works depending on planetary dignities.

Thank you all for this thread!

Very nice, easily assimilated description of 12th house planets.

Hardship, loss, suffering bring liberation (death of the ego), strength, light.

Houses 4-8-12 are moksha houses.