Grand Trines

I have a question regarding grand trines. Are the energies created by grand trines directed into one particular house or are all three houses in receipt of it positive energies. Does one planet involved 'lead'? When looking at aspects isnt it the house of the inner planet that the aspect is interpreted in? If thats the case which house would receive the benifits of a grand trine. Would it be the planet in the strongest position i.e if a planet was in rulership by sign and house?
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

well i take it you have one, so why not expand on how you think it operates?

astrologer50 said:

well i take it you have one, so why not expand on how you think it operates?

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Thankyou for taking the time to reply but im not enquiring regarding myself but as part of my studies. I do understand that trines are a harmonius combination of energies often lending the native an advantage or positive influence. I also know that trines are considered 'lazy' in as much that if you do nothing with them they do little for you. What I want to know is where those positive influences are channeled in a grand trine.
A yod shows its direction of influence, in a grand trine is it the trine with the tightest orb? Is it the trine thats applying (if there is one). By understanding how grand trines work I can understand other compound aspects.

This is what I think so far. The problem with grand trines is that they encapsulate the positive energy. You could basically end up chasing your tail and getting nowhere fast UNLESS there is an outlet and a motivator. Very few people are motivated out of positive resoning. Typically why we do what we do has more to do with something we dont like or want in our lives. We go to work because we need the money, we dont want to be broke. We follow rules because the consequences are unpleasent so given this aspect of human nature it stands to reason that the motivator would be a negative aspect, probably a square to one of the trine points. The challenge of the square motivates us to use the trine. As for an outlet; if one of the trine points is an angle then thats where the outlet is (provided there is a motivator). I also think that if one of the trine points is a planet in rulership either by sign or house, that, that point receives its power. 'Floating G.Trines offer very little to the native without that motivator, you have to have energy in to get energy out otherwise its just a fun merry-go-round.

So thats my take. Im open for comments, criticisms, thought etc

Personally, I don't think grand trines are good for much. "Easy energy" is overrated. I'm no expert though.

MTTY05 said:

Personally, I don't think grand trines are good for much. "Easy energy" is overrated. I'm no expert though.

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Thanks for contributing mtty, I agree that a grand trine that isnt utilised isnt good for much but if i had been asking about a grand cross or t square i think i would have had alot more responses. Its almost obscene to actually talk about something we like about ourselves or a talent we posess and yet we celebrate our shortfalls?! Its like when you called gtrines "easy energy"; isnt that like saying when given a gift it has no value because you didnt earn it? I dont think everything in life has to be paid for with blood sweat and tears to be valuable.
Oh and im no expert either, just another aspiring astrologer looking to learn from the wisdom of others

MTTY05 said:

Personally, I don't think grand trines are good for much. "Easy energy" is overrated. I'm no expert though.

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I just looked at your chart. Its quite impressive.

I view the energy of the planets in a Grand Trine as being always available to all three houses, with the individual drawing upon them subconsciously (ie. without the need for conscious thought) as and when circumstances require. But, whether this helps or hinders depends upon how each planet is modified by sign/house/aspects. (Trines facilitate the energy flow - which can be a curse if the planets themselves are afflicted.)

The dominant force is determined by the strength of the individual planets in the GT (taking into account planetary hierarchy and rulership), with the strongest/weakest having first/last call on the available energy. But, all planets will work together towards each of their objectives - helping or hindering the individual as required by the birthchart.

Thus, Grand Trines do not need a trigger to activate them - but do require a trigger to make us use them consciously and constructively. And sometimes, a badly aspected planet within the GT creates enough tension between ourselves and others to achieve the latter even without any triggers in the chart itself.


EJ

In addition to what EJ wrote, it is the planets that rule certain (maybe other) houses. The grand trine energy is flowing with ease between the life areas over which these planets rule first of all, and they will probably manifest in the houses (life areas) where these planets are placed.

Indeed a Grand Trine absolutely needs a push from squares attached to one of those planets, otherwise you become very lazy and think that everything will be presented to you on a silver plate. People who only have trines and no squares, dont make much of the talents they possess usually.

Hi Rogue,

A lot of interesting questions you pose, I suppose it's easier in some way interpreting a T,square because we go to the planet at the apex which is receiving the most stress. With the Grand trine we just have harmonious energy, which represent parts our selves which flow with ease, in some cases grand trines don't always support a chart. Take Kurt Cobain's case as an example, the ease of his naturally artistic/musical talents and sensitivity combined with his highly Piscean chart seemed to encourage escapism and feelings of being weak, he wanted to return back to Neptune's world were no pain exists. Sun and Mars are also both trine in his chart but doesn't make any hard aspects to other planets plus Mars in well placed in Scorpio (from what I can see in this dark chart in link below). Kurt's Grand trine may have contributed to his problems, but you can't take away his talents and gifts. Kurt had Mercury, Venus, Saturn and Chiron in Pisces 7th (Mercury conjunct 7th from 6th) trine Neptune in Scorpio 3rd, trine Jupiter in Cancer 11th. http://www.astrolodge.co.uk/clubof27/articles/cobain.html

Here is the chart of a a celebrity with a Grand Earth Trine. I personally find working through charts can help you with your questions as you gain knowledge on how each grand trine works in each individual chart. Maybe others can offer examples from their own charts with explanations on how they feel it works. You probably have to consider what "type" of chart the grand trine is embedded into. In some charts it seems to aid the person and they can use the natural gifts offered by trines constructively, in other cases like Cobain's it only emphasised his need to leave the physical world.

This chart below has been on the forum before and is easily recognisable but maybe by working through the chart you might see how his grand trine is working. I am at an advantage here . But if you have guessed the chart then it's even.

In this chart according to element count and Modes he is a Fixed Earth & Fixed Air. Which describes him as being a Taurean & Aquarius which are part of his basic mode of expression.

With him already scoring high for earth a Grand trine involving Taurus/Virgo/and Capricorn as well as the earth houses involved really emphasises the earthy domain in his chart. The planets involved in the grand trine are Sun - Neptune - Saturn/Uranus.

The Sun is in Capricorn/6th house and is chart ruler. Saturn however is in Taurus and conjuncts the Taurus M.C. Saturn also disposits the Sun in this natal chart. You might start interpreting this grand trine by putting more emphasis on the Sun trine Saturn aspect in the chart. The Sun in 6th is focused on developing skills, and honing the self to a high degree this could materialize through work/service or in the area of the health and body. How he does this is through Capricorn the most ambitious sign in the zodiac. His solar purpose will aspire to be in positions of power and authority and he is very determined to succeed. Sun trine Saturn gives the *ability* to be self - disciplined in the area of work and the body. Has an *ease* in knowing how to use his personal resources, strength, with a fixed determination to succeed and this whole aspect offers stamina and perseverance in the face of life's obstacles (Saturn on Taurean M.C). Overall because his chart is heavily weighted to Taurus we can describe him as having qualities such as being disciplined, practical, tenacious, he might have artistic qualities. With the Sun in trine to Uranus he is naturally intuitive and naturally aligned with progressive movements in society (10th) humanitarian interests about the world at large through economic resources (focused in the earth element).

The natal Sun in Capricorn 6th (the hard worker) is not easily aspected it is also square to Mars in Taurus 9th (Mars is the apex of a t,square). The Sun is also being opposed by Pluto in Leo 12th. We have a t.square, Sun/Mars/Pluto. Which would describe an ambitious, powerful, need to promote and push himself forward in the 9th house area, much more than the Grand trine alone would have the power to do. The Sun/Mars/Pluto describes the powerful determined fighter in his personality. This man has been described as a masterful self promoter (Sun in Capricorn square to Mars).

I should really reveal the chart (although you may have guessed by now), it belongs to world heavy weight champion boxer Muhammad Ali (Fight like a butterfly sting like a Bee). Maybe you would have entered at a different point in the grand trine, I think once you have a point of entry you can then stand back and see how the grand trine works as a whole in the chart you are studying/interpreting. I never finished off the reading ( I have a lazy grand trine myself in Air houses ) but we see how he does have the ability to be very persistent and determined, with plenty of talent! However, I do believe his harder aspects to his Sun in Capricorn 6th from Mars & Pluto have contributed massively to the power, force and energy he could manifest.

I was reading his wikipedia profile and later he was diagnosed with parkinson's syndrome where he can feel unsteady in his movements and with rigidity. The Aquarius part of his personality is his humanitarian interests:

According to the Ali Center website, "Since he retired from boxing, Ali has devoted himself to humanitarian endeavors around the globe. He is a devout Muslim, and travels the world over, lending his name and presence to hunger and poverty relief, supporting education efforts of all kinds, promoting adoption and encouraging people to respect and better understand one another. It is estimated that he has helped to provide more than 22 million meals to feed the hungry. Ali travels, on average, more than 200 days per year."

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Overall his Grand trine aided him in success, without the squares on his Sun (a personal planet) I don't believe he would have had enough of that powerful energy to achieve. On a world level regarding his grand trine he has been beneficial in feeding 22 million meals, the grand trine in earth may have been helpful in achieving this.

Hopefully I have given more to think about. I think it's hard to give a definite conclusion to how a Water, Fire, Earth or Air grand trine is going to work in an individual's chart, because as you were saying we might look at exalted planets and lead the grand trine reading from this point, or from personal planets, or if the chart ruler is involved in the grand trine. I think it's open, and you can go to the part of the trine you feel is most noticeable and what will "stand out" as far as gifts in the grand trine. As you work through each grand trine you will see the potential of the grand trine in relation to the natal chart. Trines can be an indication of talents, and according to Stephen Forrest he describes the trine as having unlimited growth potential. But the potential of trines can be easily wasted, as there is no pressure to make use of them. A trine indicates more potential than a sextile, but trines are much lazier. If the owner develops the aspect it can be powerful. Even without application trines show a tremendous gift or ability.

There is another chart I just remembered about and it involves an Air grand trine.

Mars in Aquarius/7th, Saturn & Uranus in Gemini/11th and Neptune in Libra/3rd house.

This is the chart of a very competitive chess genius, Mars/Pluto is in an angular opposition on the Asc/Dsc Axis which reveals his more competitive side in this Air grand trine. There is a fixed t,square which involves Moon/Mars/Pluto so we might say he could be very determined to win and might get quite easily angered and emotionally upset. The Saturn/Uranus conjunction in the grand trine is being squared by Mercury in Aquarius 8th. Mental - discipline/originality a difficult combo, it brought him brilliance and originality as well as discipline in mental Games (involving Gemini/it takes two to play chess ) O.K doesn't take a genius to work that one out .

I haven't finished my chart interpretation for him (it's on my "to do" list) but he ended his life in quite a paranoid mental state, some say he developed a mental illness. The Gifts of the genius eventually lead to his insanity. I hate to only focus on the worse aspects, because for a lot of his life he had some incredible achievements at a young age.

WOW Firstly hello EJ, nice to see you again and thankyou EJ Starlink and shining ray for your collective responses.
EJ your information was really helpful. Just to clarify a point. If the planets involved in a GT are perigrine (i understand perigrine to mean having no dignity or detriment therefore weak) does that weaken the potential of a GT the same as if a GT were is cadent houses?
Starlink, can i use an example to see if i understand you correctly. I have two grand trines, sun in aries in 2cnd-jupiter in leo in 6th-MC in sag The other is mercury in aries in 2cnd-jupiter in leo in 6th-MC in sag. I'll use the latter for my example.
Mercury in aries(2cnd) ruled by mars in taurus in 2cnd. Mars is in detriment. Mars rules 2cnd.
Jupiter in leo(6th) ruled by sun in Aries in2cnd. Sun is exalted. Mercury in 2cnd rules 6th.
MC in sag(9th or 10th) ruled by jup in leo in 6th. Jupiter is perigrine.
If i understand you correctly the enrgy of the GT flows with ease between houses 2, 6 and 9/10 (depends on house system used) and is manifest in 2,6 and 9/10. I can see that although in my example the energy produced by the GT is manifest in mutually receptive houses ie ruler of 6 in 2, ruler of MC in 6, that this wouldnt always be the case. Do you think the MC is the strongest point of this GT or the sun? The sun is exalted in aries but its in the 29th degree in a suceedent house whereas the MC has four squares and an opposition to it. The sun, mercury and jup only have one square each.

Shining ray. Thankyou so much for the wealth of information. I need to go and have a really good read of what you have written before i can comment but ive upload an aspect analysis of my chart so you can see why your advice to use my own chart to understand compound aspects is a great idea if not a scary one
View attachment aspect analysis.doc

Thanks everyone. I need to go feed and water the children They're about to stage a mutiny

Just a couple of points about grand trines:

1.) Purists would insist that each point of the triangle be a plent, not an angle, sensitive point, asteroid, or what have you.

2.) Grand trines apparently appear in charts of people who have difficulty "getting their act together." Life works OK as it is, so why bother to pursue that university degree, job training, or dream house? Squares are often tough for people to deal with, but they can provide the impetus for people to develop the energies represented by those squared planets.

Consequently, in the mystery celebrity chart posted by Shing Ray, I suspect the "red lines" are the energies that gave this person the drive to accomplish something in his career.

waybread said:

Just a couple of points about grand trines:

1.) Purists would insist that each point of the triangle be a plent, not an angle, sensitive point, asteroid, or what have you.

2.) Grand trines apparently appear in charts of people who have difficulty "getting their act together." Life works OK as it is, so why bother to pursue that university degree, job training, or dream house? Squares are often tough for people to deal with, but they can provide the impetus for people to develop the energies represented by those squared planets.

Consequently, in the mystery celebrity chart posted by Shing Ray, I suspect the "red lines" are the energies that gave this person the drive to accomplish something in his career.

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Thankyou for your contribution waybread. Firstly I did wonder about the validity of a grand trine to an angle but time and time again i have read about the angles being the most important part of a persons chart so if an interpretation can be given for angles ie pluto trine asc then it would be reasonable to expect that GTrines to angles are also valid.
Secondly your comment regarding grand trines appearing in charts of those people who find it difficult to get there act together seems a little harsh. I do understand that trines in general CAN contribute to a native being lazy but that is the fault of the native not the aspects influence. To say that grand trines indicate a lacksidasical nature is to say that those with grand crosses go through life feeling hard done by, both are attributable to a lack of personal responsibility. GTrines are gifts and as such should be appreciated. If they are not then that is the fault and responsibility of the native.

With the mystery celebrity I agree that the "red lines" provided an incentive but withour the gTrine he may not have been famous or talented at all, just another everyday joe bloggs trying to make each day count, just like me

Rogue, I am a great believer in choice-centred astrology. So I would never suggest that a grand trine forces someone to chillax on his backside. I would put it, rather, that a natal chart indicates energies with which a person deals during his lifetime. But he always has the choice (barring some kind of truly oppressive condition or disability) as to how to deal with those energies.

But this process often takes time. Sometimes a younger person with a tough aspect won't be quite as developed in dealing with it as an older person, with a lifetime of experience.

I don't see single trines as having the same effect as a grand trine at all, BTW. I don't think single trines confer the same intertia.

waybread said:

Rogue, I am a great believer in choice-centred astrology. So I would never suggest that a grand trine forces someone to chillax on his backside. I would put it, rather, that a natal chart indicates energies with which a person deals during his lifetime. But he always has the choice (barring some kind of truly oppressive condition or disability) as to how to deal with those energies.

But this process often takes time. Sometimes a younger person with a tough aspect won't be quite as developed in dealing with it as an older person, with a lifetime of experience.

I don't see single trines as having the same effect as a grand trine at all, BTW. I don't think single trines confer the same intertia.

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oops sorry i agree about trines, mercury in aries conj sun here...sometimes my hands (or mouth) has trouble keeping up with the brain

rogue_red said:

...If the planets involved in a GT are perigrine (i understand perigrine to mean having no dignity or detriment therefore weak) does that weaken the potential of a GT the same as if a GT were is cadent houses?...

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Hi RR,

For me, a peregrine planet will make it's presence felt - but inappropriately.


[Eg. Imagine Jonah Loma playing rugby for New Zealand and winning the match in the final minute, after running from the halfway line with three of the opposition team hanging off his back. (Dignified)

Then imagine him wearing the same outfit, but performing the lead in Die Fledmaus in front of a packed audience at the Sydney Opera House. (Peregrine)

Same man with the same qualities/talents, but unable to use them to best effect when peregrine - and thus getting noticed for the wrong reasons.]


So, in a Grand Trine, I'd treat a peregrine planet as "strong but afflicted". However, expect the unexpected - Jonah's operatic performance might be acclaimed as comedy by the critics.

EJ

I just looked up the defininition of "peregrine: in James R. Lewis: The Astrology Book: the Encyclopedia of Heavenly Influences. He adds to a lack of dignity and exaltation a planet that is also not in aspect with another planet. So if you use his defo, a planet in a grand trine is not peregrine.

waybread said:

I just looked up the defininition of "peregrine: in James R. Lewis: The Astrology Book: the Encyclopedia of Heavenly Influences. He adds to a lack of dignity and exaltation a planet that is also not in aspect with another planet. So if you use his defo, a planet in a grand trine is not peregrine.

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Ahh thankyou waybread.

EJ53 said:

Hi RR,

For me, a peregrine planet will make it's presence felt - but inappropriately.


[Eg. Imagine Jonah Loma playing rugby for New Zealand and winning the match in the final minute, after running from the halfway line with three of the opposition team hanging off his back. (Dignified)

Then imagine him wearing the same outfit, but performing the lead in Die Fledmaus in front of a packed audience at the Sydney Opera House. (Peregrine)

Same man with the same qualities/talents, but unable to use them to best effect when peregrine - and thus getting noticed for the wrong reasons.]


So, in a Grand Trine, I'd treat a peregrine planet as "strong but afflicted". However, expect the unexpected - Jonah's operatic performance might be acclaimed as comedy by the critics.

EJ

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Thats really interesting EJ. What else could cause the "getting noticed for all the wrong reasons" Squares or oppositions to the asc may be?
Its just that what you just said seems to reflect my life so vividly. Maybe its squares to my midheaven? Midheaven is all about reputation and mine is squared to my asc and has squares to uranus, pluto and chiron and is opposite my POF. Turns out jup isnt peregrine as it has aspects to it so cant be that.