How Accurate are Composite Charts, Really?

For years I've used composite charts to understand the relationship that is created when two people come together (romantic or platonic). Or should I say, I've tried to used them, because I've gotten mixed results at best. I'm willing to consider that I'm missing something about the composite or perhaps am going about it entirely the wrong way, even though I've read several books on it and been trained.

To anyone who claims the composite chart as one of the tools in their astrological belt:

1) Could you look at a composite chart and, given basic background information on the individuals, come to a mostly accurate portrayal of the relationship?

2) What are the techniques you use?

3) How accurate have you, and the people you have read for, found your readings?

sibylline said:

For years I've used composite charts to understand the relationship that is created when two people come together (romantic or platonic). Or should I say, I've tried to used them, because I've gotten mixed results at best. I'm willing to consider that I'm missing something about the composite or perhaps am going about it entirely the wrong way, even though I've read several books on it and been trained.

To anyone who claims the composite chart as one of the tools in their astrological belt:

1) Could you look at a composite chart and, given basic background information on the individuals, come to a mostly accurate portrayal of the relationship?

2) What are the techniques you use?

3) How accurate have you, and the people you have read for, found your readings?

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Most members know I use composites extensively. You can review my work, I am not going to get into a on going discussion of composites except to describe how I see a composite you've read the books and I've read the books. My conclusions are the books are inadequate just as all books on the node are inadequate .
My main difference is that I see the composite as a interferance pattern of the individuals auras. The composite doesn't come into being when 2 people get together. It always exist, as auras are present from birth. The foundation of composites goes beyond human ideas or experience. This is apparent to me because composites with a natal chart and a moment chart work as well as 2 or more natals. Depending on the lay of the planets, I have successfully called the beginning and end of relationships and often i have
Been able to see personal dynamics that affected the individuals before they even got together. But if you believe the books that a composite does not exist before 2 people get together, then this information is not accessible. I suggest you read a little about the philosophical and metaphysical implications of quantum mechanics. Most people are stuck in the belief that the standard model of science is the guide line of reality.
rahu

Obviously, I'm not a professional. You may be even more experienced than me, Sibylline, but from the composite charts I've seen, I gather that the most important thing in seeing how a composite chart functions is looking at the connections from composite to natal.

If a relationship (not necessarily romantic) is or was at all important to me, I've found there to be at least one conjunction to a (personal) planet or angle in my natal chart. In the charts of more casual acquaintances and guys I've dated who I've had little interest in, these conjunctions are missing.

I don't think two people necessarily need to come together in order for the composite to work. Looking at the composite of me and a celeb crush for example, Pisces was on the ASC and Sun was conjunct Neptune, which makes a lot of sense as this was only a fantasy relationship.

In the charts of most of my best friendships, Sun is in the 5th house

I agree with Rahu.

From the moment you're born, a composite chart exists between you and every other moment in time, forwards and backwards.

I see the progressed composite as showing "the moment" when 2 people might connect in their daily lives in some meaningful way.

As an example, I've been using a taxi firm for a few years now and it's usually the same driver. Just this last week, I was in the taxi and I started having a meaningful conversation with the driver on interesting topics (philosophy, conspiracies, etc) rather than just the usual chitchat. He mentioned he was 42, I asked him his birthday as I was "into astrology" and when I came home and inputted the data, I found that in the progressed composite there is Sun conjunct Venus which can happen only once in a lifetime (unless in a Venus retro period).

Spooky, don't you think?

And it's happened before, with real people, and with authors that I read. If you pick up a new author and you really like their books, then do a progressed composite for yourself and them. You may well find Sun conjunct Mercury or Venus.

Samantha Bean said:

IMO, they are only a potential chart that shows the best possible picture. They require a very accurate birth time for both, and if I did use one it would only be Davidson.

Remember that they were started by Rob Hand, PhD(in astrology, btw) with a book in the 70's called PLANETS IN COMPOSITE.

Later Rob disavowed them, and said that they didn't really tell what was happening to the individuals in the relationship, only a static potential.

IMO, Synastry charts are way way superior. Using the current challenges that a person experiences along with what their personality shows can produce detailed information about not only the potential of the relationship, but the pitfalls right now.

However, it takes real skill and astrological knowledge to do a synastric analysis, and not very much to do a composite one.

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composites are made up of midpoints.... midpoints were described by ptolmey (ca 90-ca 168 bc) .

I wish you had more facts to support your IMO's

as for synastry I have never seen anyone be able to say when a relationship started or ended with precision. I do this all the time with composites

most often when reading synastry, the astrologer has a list of questions. when did you get together what were the circumstances etc etc. with composite I can often describe the circumstances.

I notice you are fond of telling people ,"you can't do anything with out precise time of birth. yet astrology existed for 1000's of years withour precise times of birth for most people.
so apparently you can't do anything without exact times of birth.
aspects per se ,not counting the moon can be describe well with just the day as the planets do not move so fast as to need an exact time.
of course if all you look at are the angles, then yes you are limited to only exact time charts.

rahu

I like to track where Venus is in the composite charts between my friends. For example, some of my friends I share a passion for travel, eating at ethnic restaurants (I have Venus in 9th) in the composite with these friends we have Venus in the 9th. Other friends that I share my astrology interest and other mystical studies we share a composite 8th house Venus, then the ones I did play dates with my kids or attended soccer games and that sort of thing we share Venus in the 5th. I would think the 11th house, but I think that is more group associations, clubs. Anyway this has seemed to be full proof with my platonic girlfriends.

I'm guessing friends I make here I'll share an 8th or 12th house Venus, maybe, share Astrology, or it might be 11th, since it is internet (Aquarius and a group association.)

rahu said:

My conclusions are the books are inadequate just as all books on the node are inadequate.[..]
Been able to see personal dynamics that affected the individuals before they even got together. But if you believe the books that a composite does not exist before 2 people get together, then this information is not accessible.

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I know what I've read on what composites represent but I don't know what to believe, which is why I started this thread. The only thing I know for sure is that composites haven't been working for me.

rahu said:

Depending on the lay of the planets, I have successfully called the beginning and end of relationships and often i have
Been able to see personal dynamics that affected the individuals before they even got together.

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Really? I don't think I have seen anyone else make that claim. Would you be able to do that if I attached composites?

craft94 said:

Obviously, I'm not a professional. You may be even more experienced than me, Sibylline, but from the composite charts I've seen, I gather that the most important thing in seeing how a composite chart functions is looking at the connections from composite to natal.

If a relationship (not necessarily romantic) is or was at all important to me, I've found there to be at least one conjunction to a (personal) planet or angle in my natal chart. In the charts of more casual acquaintances and guys I've dated who I've had little interest in, these conjunctions are missing.

Click to expand...

I have had mixed results with this method. For example, sometimes in a significant relationships there is a conjunction, sometimes there's not, which isn't doing any better than mere chance.

craft94 said:

I don't think two people necessarily need to come together in order for the composite to work. Looking at the composite of me and a celeb crush for example, Pisces was on the ASC and Sun was conjunct Neptune, which makes a lot of sense as this was only a fantasy relationship.

Click to expand...

Good one.

Sweet Pea said:

As an example, I've been using a taxi firm for a few years now and it's usually the same driver. Just this last week, I was in the taxi and I started having a meaningful conversation with the driver on interesting topics (philosophy, conspiracies, etc) rather than just the usual chitchat. He mentioned he was 42, I asked him his birthday as I was "into astrology" and when I came home and inputted the data, I found that in the progressed composite there is Sun conjunct Venus which can happen only once in a lifetime (unless in a Venus retro period).

Spooky, don't you think?

And it's happened before, with real people, and with authors that I read. If you pick up a new author and you really like their books, then do a progressed composite for yourself and them. You may well find Sun conjunct Mercury or Venus.

Click to expand...

I just ran a progressed composite with my favorite astrology author for the day we "met" in 2009 and it has Sun conjunct Mercury but I looked at the progressed composite between myself and others, even those I don't really get along with, and they also have Sun conjunct Venus or Mercury also. Isn't this fairly likely to happen given how close the Sun and Venus, and particularly Sun and Mercury tend to be at all times?

Samantha Bean said:

IMO, they are only a potential chart that shows the best possible picture. They require a very accurate birth time for both, and if I did use one it would only be Davidson.

Remember that they were started by Rob Hand, PhD(in astrology, btw) with a book in the 70's called PLANETS IN COMPOSITE.

Later Rob disavowed them, and said that they didn't really tell what was happening to the individuals in the relationship, only a static potential.

IMO, Synastry charts are way way superior. Using the current challenges that a person experiences along with what their personality shows can produce detailed information about not only the potential of the relationship, but the pitfalls right now.

However, it takes real skill and astrological knowledge to do a synastric analysis, and not very much to do a composite one.

Click to expand...

I'm glad you brought up the Davidson because that was another one I was wondering about. Why do you use the Davidson and how does it compare to the midpoint composite for you?

Rob Hand didn't create the method AFAIK but he added a lot to its interpretation and helped to popularize it in the U.S. I was surprised when I heard that he renounced them, but I understood why.

I find synastry more enlightening also but I don't know about it taking more skill to analyze a synastry chart vs. a composite.

sibylline said:

I know what I've read on what composites represent but I don't know what to believe, which is why I started this thread. The only thing I know for sure is that composites haven't been working for me.



Really? I don't think I have seen anyone else make that claim. Would you be able to do that if I attached composites? Here are couple, if you're interested, feel free to discuss any re: beginning and any endings, and major themes.

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As I first said I am not going to get into a discussion about composites. You obviously have a axe to grind and I am not interested in playing. You can go through the relationship archives and read the responses. I don't really care what you think about composites. The only people whose opinions I care about are those whose chart s I read.i am certainly not go take your little test which only you can judge. Read the response of members who wanted real feedback.

I have posted for 10 years and you apparently have never read 1 of my posts, so why the interest now!?

rahu

rahu said:

As I first said I am not going to get into a discussion about composites. You obviously have a axe to grind and I am not interested in playing. You can go through the relationship archives and read the responses. I don't really care what you think about composites. The only people whose opinions I care about are those whose chart s I read.i am certainly not go take your little test which only you can judge. Read the response of members who wanted real feedback.

I have posted for 10 years and you apparently have never read 1 of my posts, so why the interest now!?

rahu

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???

I think you're reading a lot into my posts that just isn't there. I don't have an axe to grind and why would I? I don't dislike composites, they're just another method and I'm neutral on them thus far. Since so many people use the composite as a reliable technique and I haven't had the same success I was really wondering about the questions listed in the OP. If you're not interested, then that's fine and you don't have to reply to the thread. It's for anyone who is.

I've read several of your posts but since you replied to the thread and made a claim of skill, I was really interested to see if that was possible. I'm not waiting to trip you up; in fact if you were able to give a date that was anywhere near close or circumstances that fit by any stretch, I would consider that accurate.

sibylline said:

???

I think you're reading a lot into my posts that just isn't there. I don't have an axe to grind and why would I? I don't dislike composites, they're just another method and I'm neutral on them thus far. Since so many people use the composite as a reliable technique and I haven't had the same success I was really wondering about the questions listed in the OP. If you're not interested, then that's fine and you don't have to reply to the thread. It's for anyone who is.

I've read several of your posts but since you replied to the thread and made a claim of skill, I was really interested to see if that was possible. I'm not waiting to trip you up; in fact if you were able to give a date that was anywhere near close or circumstances that fit by any stretch, I would consider that accurate.

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As I have said,you have never read a response of mine to a composite, if had you wouldn't have these questions
As I said, I don't care what you think. And have no desire to prove myself to you.
rahu

JaxAstro said:

I like to track where Venus is in the composite charts between my friends. For example, some of my friends I share a passion for travel, eating at ethnic restaurants (I have Venus in 9th) in the composite with these friends we have Venus in the 9th. Other friends that I share my astrology interest and other mystical studies we share a composite 8th house Venus, then the ones I did play dates with my kids or attended soccer games and that sort of thing we share Venus in the 5th. I would think the 11th house, but I think that is more group associations, clubs. Anyway this has seemed to be full proof with my platonic girlfriends.

I'm guessing friends I make here I'll share an 8th or 12th house Venus, maybe, share Astrology, or it might be 11th, since it is internet (Aquarius and a group association.)

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That's interesting...Where is the composite Venus for you and your husband? Or is this just for platonic relationships? I have Venus in 9th with my bf and it does fit.

Sibylline,
That was just an observation about composite charts with friends, Venus showing where our common connection or interest are.
My husband and I have Sun Mercury (my 7th significator) and Venus in the 1st house opposing Jupiter in the 7th.
I attached it if you want to take a look.

@Jax,

Okay, thanks for clarifying.

What do you see the 1st hse Venus opposite Jupiter representing in your relationship and overall how do you feel the composite fits? Do some parts ring particularly true to you? I know those are a lot of questions so feel free to answer as much or as little as you want.

Hi,

I think a basic difference that needs to be kept in mind whilst doing composite and synastry charts is that synastry charts involves two natal charts as they are and simply 'lays one chart over the other' in order to compare the placements and constellations of two people.

Now, the composite chart is a 'third' chart 'created' by taking the midpoints of the planetary placements of two natal charts. When I look at composite charts, I almost only look at houses, as I want to understand the potential and focus of the 'combined' energies. In a way, and please do not jump now, it is a sort of an assumption chart or a fictional chart.

Well, I think how Venus in 1st opposing Jupiter plays out in our relationship is we seem to agree on how to have fun, what restaurant to eat at, taste on aesthetic things, with Jupiter opposing, we probably encourage each other to over-indulge ha!
On a more serious level, I think it helps us to compromise and find solutions to issues, there is a desire to please and to work things out. We were friends first and I think that is a strong basis for love & respect.

I agree with Aquarius7000 that the composite is only a chart of the combined energies of the two people. I like to compare the planets aspects from the synastry to the composite. It also seems to me that if there are not any planets in the angles (1,7, 4 or 10) of a composite then it is not a very significant relationship.

sibylline said:

I just ran a progressed composite with my favorite astrology author for the day we "met" in 2009 and it has Sun conjunct Mercury but I looked at the progressed composite between myself and others, even those I don't really get along with, and they also have Sun conjunct Venus or Mercury also. Isn't this fairly likely to happen given how close the Sun and Venus, and particularly Sun and Mercury tend to be at all times?

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You're right, so my theory is blown out of the water. No spookiness.

When I did this quite randomly with my charts, it was surprising how often a close Sun/Mercury or Sun/Venus came up in the progressed composite. And when Venus wasn't close, it was often opposite, which is a quirk of the midpoint process (since there are 2 midpoints, the near and the far ones.)