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Unread 04-29-2017, 08:09 PM
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Quintiles In Love...the forgotten genius?

A Mans' Mars in Quintile, Bi-Quintile, Tredecile or Semi-Quintile to a Womans' Venus.
It stands to reason that it is an aspect of creative, perceptive, expressionistic genius in such affairs...?

SHARE YOUR STORIES... LET'S GET THIS OUT IN THE OPEN AND SHARE WITH ALL.
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Unread 04-30-2017, 04:53 AM
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Well Rudhyar said quite a bit on quintiles. Theres creative genuis but also potential for self-destruction. The quintile is the "star" aspect; the zodiac divided by five, 72 degrees apart. Rudhyar said that the quintile has the potential to operate at two polarities, depending on which way the star is pointed, comparing it symbolically to the third eye and the root chakra.

Heres what he said about it:

"... A quintile can operate - if it operates at all - in one of two basic directions or polarities. the evolutionary process either progresses or regresses. Here progress is symbolically identified with the head, with the spiritual-mental or conscious aspect of man, with the activation of Vibration Five or Mind - which is a spirit- emanated power to be used in the context of a large evolutionary process."

He describes the regressive progress as leading to "self perpetuation and aggrandizement."

Possibly the bi-quintile is most harmonious? Theres the creative potential of the quintile but with the added element of perserverence. Heres what Rudhyar said of the bi-quintile:

"The waxing bi-quintile another point on the five-pointed star - falls in Phase 5 of the first hemicycle. It follows the waxing trine and sesquiquadrate, referring to a type of potential creative expression built upon idealistic vision and the capacity to persevere and be willing to stay with a problem or situation until a way of working it through can be found. "
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Re: Quintiles In Love...the forgotten genius?

And what he said about the semi-quintile:

"The semi-quintile also refers to the relationship between a new creative impulse and old techniques or traditional 'know how'... This relationship between a new creative impulse and an old technique is what is meant by 'talent' in the deepest sense of the word... The problem here is how to prevent the old technique from perverting and deviating the new creative impulse"
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Unread 04-30-2017, 10:42 AM
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Re: Quintiles In Love...the forgotten genius?

Strangely, Ursula Lewis claimed the bi-quintile to be an aspect that activates the occult in a person. ie.g. ESP, clairvoyance and the like. She attributed the applying aspect to an ability to develop such proclivities as they exist from having had some degree of the same from prior incarnations.

Ursula ascribed the separating aspect to be an attribute of genius in creative expression in any area of creativity.

What Ursula said about the applying aspect I instead have found to be associated with the Tredecile, the 108 aspect ...a Quintile and a half, or what you have left over in a 180 degree span with a quintile at one end.

Quintile/Tredecile aspects by Pluto to the Nodes have shown up in the natal charts of remarkable clairvoyants. Edgar Cayce had a 72 degree aspect between Pluto and the North Node and Elsie Wheeler about a 73 degree aspect to the North Node... both Tredecile to the South Node. My good friend and also renowned clairvoyant, Clarisse Conner, has a 74 degree aspect between her natal Pluto and Her natal South Node. Maybe not quite the caliber of Edgar or Elsie but she is the first to admit that Edgar was in a league above her own. Her accuracy is definitely as when her "gift" is applied to see "what has been" she sees the past with remarkable clarity, I know that for a fact for the number of times she described something that happened to me as far back as more than forty or fifty years ago with more accuracy as to detail than I could immediately recall at the time. ...maybe that's where the South Node plays in?

Personally, from my experience in observing quintiles I think they are short shrifted in the orb allowance and I have found that up to 5 degrees for the Quintile and 3 degrees for the bi-quintile to be the rule of effect. But no more for the Sun and Moon than the Planets. As the Tredecile is a natural compliment to the Quintile when dealing with aspects to anything of exact chart dividing presence such as the Moons' Nodes or any two opposing points of the chart axis, the Asc-Desc., or the M.C.-I.C., it may be that it deserves as great an orb allowance as the quintile... or possibly in between that and the bi-quintile (?)...so a nice snug 4 degree orb probably is the correct call. (and as you get to 3 degrees separation from the bi-quintile, at 147, you have reached a point of 3 degrees applying to the Quincunx or Inconjunct..seems to be the prefect split right there.)

In my experience I believe in Six basic aspects that should all be considered as the primaries of astrology...outside of the conjunction. They are the opposition and square, the trine and sextile and the quintile and bi-quintile. This is based on "math thinking"...it's the way my mind understands things, mathematically.

To put those six aspects another way, strictly math; the two-four, the three-six and the five-ten (the four-eight is just a further breakdown of the two-four) after that there is the Septile which is irrational, the novile which is a further breakdown of the three-six (three noviles make a trine) and the hendecatile or undecimal depending on ones preference and that is a division of the 360 by 11 and an aspect of 32.727272... degrees and is as irrational as the Septile. Everything beyond that is a further breakdown of one of the three basic I gave or another irrational number.
Thats why I believe those six in addition to the conjunct, to be the major aspects for consideration in any analysis.

There's a certain nuance of character to the aspects that rises higher and becomes more subtle the higher of the four groups one is in respect to.(four when including the conjunct) The 5-10, the quintile-biquintile is that highest group. It sees the creative potential and finds a means to make it reality
Or it can be put in terms of transformation... The first three groups are concerned with the process, specifically the mechanics of the process while the quintile biquintile, is what is the idea (or ideal) that gave cause to transform and the foresight to see ahead and complete that process by adaptive application of that which there will be to there work with.

I think the same general application of recognition of benefit to be obtained and creative inspiration to bring that about can be said about the quintile-biquintile aspect in romantic relationships. If I may dare to reduce the definition of love to something as such so base and quite so dryly too?*
...and if found between the mans Mars and the womans Venus in a hetero relationship to be the most intriguing of all.
At least it seems to be to me, a hetero male.


Yet Uranus involved as to one or as to the other might even be all the more so... depending on ones mores and ways... or even possibly where lies ones' line of taboo?
Neptune involved in the same manner may possibly even border on the sublime?

But, to start with, I'd like to read of some experiences first hand concerning the basic elemental planets to be found in congenial aspects in enduring love relationships, i.e. Venus & Mars... if it does give overall positive indications ...then expand into the trans-saturnians.

* In fact Phoenix V. I like the way Dane put it and I should of been more subjective, especially in concern of the topic here, as you quoted him thus; "... of potential creative expression built upon idealistic vision and the capacity to persevere and be willing to..."
It is the way we express our love for one another that is what gives cause to respond in same and that is what the greatest cause is for it to endure.
Love not expressed cannot be Love recognized.
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Unread 04-30-2017, 03:14 PM
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Piercthevale, did you know i have a natal biquintile between pluto and north node? With pluto at 9.01 scorpio and nn at 2.17 aries its a 143.16 degree aspect.

Of course, i dont consider myself to be clairvoyant and EC's and C's charts both have pluto in a quintile/tredecile relationship to the nodes whereas mine is a decile/biquintile relationship. Maybe there is something more to discover regarding this connection? I will have to spend some time contemplating it.

And though we are discussing mars and venus, I also wonder what a relationship would be like with a man's Sun and a woman's Moon in quintile/biquintile aspect. Anyone experience that?
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Unread 05-01-2017, 01:44 AM
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Re: Quintiles In Love...the forgotten genius?

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Piercthevale, did you know i have a natal biquintile between pluto and north node? With pluto at 9.01 scorpio and nn at 2.17 aries its a 143.16 degree aspect.

Of course, i don't consider myself to be clairvoyant and EC's and C's charts both have pluto in a quintile/tredecile relationship to the nodes whereas mine is a decile/biquintile relationship. Maybe there is something more to discover regarding this connection? I will have to spend some time contemplating it.

And though we are discussing mars and venus, I also wonder what a relationship would be like with a man's Sun and a woman's Moon in quintile/biquintile aspect. Anyone experience that?
Yes I did know of it. I haven't thought about it any in quite awhile though. I never gave the Semi-quintile much credit until recently , so it is worth a reevaluation and the present seems like the right time too... funny how that all works out, isn't it?
I also notice for the first time a moment ago that Your natal Pluto and that of my brother is in perfect quintile aspect. His Pluto is at 27 Leo 06' 12" so it's like 71 54' 41" ... dang near perfect and as his Pluto is rx it is applying..in reverse... what's up with those apps and seps? They aren't all the same... there's more than 8 way that planets can apply and the same for Separating...they can't just all be classified as having the same method and focus of influence... but that's what Ursula did in her book... lumped all the applying and all the separating quintile aspects together... Well, it is supposed to be a basic pocket sized handbook... just the simple plain fats ...minimalist in descriptive text. It's served me well enough the last 33 years... almost 33, it will be come this August. It was the one I carried in my car or years... while I was in my 'green years', the first ten or so... would always be needing to look up something as it hadn't burned itself into my brain as yet.
Nifty section for quick reference when you just happened to meet someone and have about three minutes to figure out if you're going to ask for her phone number or find some excuse as for not to have one yourself if asked... depending on what you can figure in such little time.

I always try to get the day and year of birth right away... Hey, I'm an astrologer and I love to talk about what fascinates me and everybody likes to wear their sign...most everybody, anyways, and If she doesn't...you don't need to check matters out any further...she's a loser... right?

Get the day and year... and I always had my Michelsen's 20th Century Ephemeris in my car as well. Odds are Her Venus and Mars were in but one sign that day she was born... if it's a choice of two, work with it and if you have to decide on the basis of one factor, hopefully it's Her Venus as that tells you right away the potential odds of making a good romantic connection eventually, and it also gives up the info as to her "Needs and Reactions"
I brought this up in another thread her at the forum some years ago. Ursula Lewis' Astrology Handbook gets the award for best tool in the available bachelors' utility belt ...but you got to have the ephemeris too... or access to same online ( I'm still not one of the IPhone crowd, don't want to be) but Michelsen's ephemeris is much more accurate than astrodienst's pdf files ...way better.)Ursula's book chapter 11, "Your Sexual Expression- Venus, Mars and the Fifth House." In tat chapter you will find "A Mans Mars (His Needs and Reactions) and a one or two sentence, very terse, summation for Mars in each of the twelve signs. Then you will come upon "Mars In A Womans' Chart (The Kind Of Man She Will Be Attracted To)" And again there are twelve signs that Mars might be found in in a womans' chart the commentary is short, sweet, and to the point. Then comes the section, "Venus In A Mans' Chart (The Kind Of Woman He Will Be Attracted To" and that is followed by "Venus IN A Womans' Chart (Her Needs And Reactions). The last page of chapter 11 in Ursula's Astrologers' Handbook Is "The Sign Ruling The Cusp Of the Fifth House"

Get her birthdate, excuse yourself for long enough to find the date in the ephemeris, note the positions of Venus and Mars... and while your turning to chapter 11 you can figure out what kind of synastry your Venus and Mars and anything else you have time to apply to get a quick idea of whether there is anything in grave opposition or damning squares.

Just for fun as I need a chart for an example to use in a demonstration... I'm going to use the composite chart that Phoenix Venus has with the one we are both convinced is accurate enough to be that of the Prince of Peace. (a chart cast for the date that the renowned 20th century American clairvoyant, Edgar Cayce, gave as the date of birth for the "Essene Dream" himself, April 2nd in the year 3 C.E. (or A.D. if you prefer) gregorian.
Let's just say that it is the chart of someone I just met at a gathering, I've gone to the utility belt and find that...
Her chart has a Venus in Capricorn from the 4th to the 5th degree and Mars was in Leo, in the 11th degree that day.

First off I notice that my Mars in the 5th of Gemini is inconjunct her Venus... but that is not necessarily a bad thing... just have to remember that it'll always seem like were exchanging forehand shots on the center court. (30 - Love.. service) So Her Mars is in Leo, just what kind of man is she interested in...what is she looking for in a guy? "Ursula's Handbook tells me " She likes a man who is sure of himself, outgoing and stylish in his appearance."

Back in my youthful bachelor days I worked construction five days a week, I usually had some sort of stain that was permanently tinting my hands or fingers ...at least a few nails and I almost always was wearing a pair of well worn blue jeans and I smelled of sawdust or paint...or fresh cement...or any combination there of. My hair was always long as to where most gals wanted me to cut it and after haggling with a foreman or a homeowner customer all day I wasn't all too sure of myself as about anything other than some cold beer and then dinner. Doesn't look hopeful so far...

What about Her Capricorn Venus? What kind of needs and reactions does Capricorn laden Venus with? Ursula's Handbook says "This is a reserved woman, often incapable of demonstrative behavior, but once a man accepts her reserve and earns her respect, she will be extremely loyal to him."

So, now I do a quick review in my mind "likes a man who is sure of himself, outgoing and stylish in his appearance"...and she is " a reserved woman, often incapable of demonstrative behavior. Accept her reserve and win her respect and loyalty"

OMG, I believe I must have just met the Duchess of York....

No phone umber will be asked for or offered this eve...someday her prince will come, or are there any princes still on the availability list presently.
Prince Harry's still single, now, isn't he..or is he still dallying with that Canadian gal... Sparkle Markle.. ... or something like that?


...and you know what Phoenix...that is a bi quintile between Mars and Venus in the composite natal chart of yours and that nice Jewish fella ... and by only 18" of a degree orb, wow.
I never noticed that before... And, also a Sun - Lilith biquitile by a 01' 16" orb.
That Moon Pluto aspct may be just enough to pass as a quintile for the reason that Pluto is conj. the Asc. and the Moon is definitely conj. that. That would give you three out of five on the composite for Pentagram makings. Moon, Pluto, Ac., Pallas... a girl could do a lot worse.

I have Mars in Gemini and Venus in Aries...meaning, according to Ursula and I have to give it to her, it is a most condensed synopsis but it is correct and accurate. Guys with a Gemini Mars goes for the cerebral type of woman...we are a bit flirtatious but need that intellectual companionship ...no awkward pauses in the conversation afterwards... the kind that will keep the chatter intellectual stimulating until you doze off is generally what we seek (not 24/7, as we all need some peace and quiet now and then too) ...and Chess is a nice substitute for talk sometimes... laying in bed all day on Sunday just reading the newspaper then doing the crossword together.

I've also Venus in Aries, "He is attracted to the woman who is outgoing, independent, scintillating and has a sense of adventure." ...one doesn't see that word, "scintillating" much anymore... I would've done better had I been born 30 years later as this "X' generation that has been providing the athletes to watch these last fifteen or so years or more. This generation now mostly in their 30s soon to start entering their 40s, has produced a vast number of some of the most outstanding women athletes the world can ever remember and as for outgoing in general it seems that they don't come any other way.

One last item. It would be the very rare one that you might meet that actually has a copy of their natal chart but ever since the Smart Phone has come along anything has suddenly become the norm and not the exception, Possible IS possible.
so, lets look up the fifth House cusp of this 'Duchess' and see what one would expect when the lights go low... does one skip the light fandango ...or should he do cartwheels across the floor?

The composite chart has Aquarius for its fifth House cusp. According to Ursula's Handbook "These people need a partner who is mentally stimulating. They are inconsistent in sex performance."

Whew...dodged a bullet with that one. Prince Harry with a good portion of Alex Trebek is what she's looking for.

I don't know that Ursula Lewis' Astrologers Handbook is still in print or not. Likely not. The complete title of the book I referred to throughout this post is "Chart Your Own Horoscope For Beginner and Professional" by Ursula Lewis, copyright 1976 published by the Putnam Pub Group in paperback, I find that Amazon is loaded with them...starting at $2.99 Yankee Dollar.
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Unread 04-13-2021, 12:55 AM
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Well Rudhyar said quite a bit on quintiles. Theres creative genuis but also potential for self-destruction. The quintile is the "star" aspect; the zodiac divided by five, 72 degrees apart. Rudhyar said that the quintile has the potential to operate at two polarities, depending on which way the star is pointed, comparing it symbolically to the third eye and the root chakra.

Heres what he said about it:

"... A quintile can operate - if it operates at all - in one of two basic directions or polarities. the evolutionary process either progresses or regresses. Here progress is symbolically identified with the head, with the spiritual-mental or conscious aspect of man, with the activation of Vibration Five or Mind - which is a spirit- emanated power to be used in the context of a large evolutionary process."

He describes the regressive progress as leading to "self perpetuation and aggrandizement."

Possibly the bi-quintile is most harmonious? Theres the creative potential of the quintile but with the added element of perserverence. Heres what Rudhyar said of the bi-quintile:

"The waxing bi-quintile another point on the five-pointed star - falls in Phase 5 of the first hemicycle. It follows the waxing trine and sesquiquadrate, referring to a type of potential creative expression built upon idealistic vision and the capacity to persevere and be willing to stay with a problem or situation until a way of working it through can be found. "

@ Phoenixvenus
Wow this is some amazing insight this is exactly the information Ive been searching for. Im in my llast setting phase of my Saturn return Sadi sati a 7yr Saturn transit and this is unbelievable and truly makes sense now. I have Venus bi quintile asc, Neptune bi quintile asc, in 5th house Uranus and Neptune are placed there also with few other aspects including Lilith loll and Pluto quintile Jupiter in the 3rd house. Not to mention I am a sun quintile moon . Venus Pluto sesq.. this is the missing puzzle Ive been searching. Your a gem thnakyou
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Re: Quintiles In Love...the forgotten genius?

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@ Phoenixvenus
Wow this is some amazing insight this is exactly the information I’ve been searching for. I’m in my llast setting phase of my Saturn return Sadi sati a 7yr Saturn transit and this is unbelievable and truly makes sense now. I have Venus bi quintile asc, Neptune bi quintile asc, in 5th house Uranus and Neptune are placed there also with few other aspects including Lilith loll and Pluto quintile Jupiter in the 3rd house. Not to mention I am a sun quintile moon . Venus Pluto sesq.. this is the missing puzzle I’ve been searching. Your a gem thnakyou
Phoenixvenus has been on a long extended hiatus from this forum..a bit of "burnout", and that happens to us all, or that it can. I'll pass along your kind words to her.


I will offer a bit of a tip here. What she gave as info can be found in Dane Rudhyar and Leyla Rael's book, "Astrological Aspects. A Process Oriented Approach" as you might be interested in obtaining a copy? Leyla was Dane's fourth wife and his widow. The were nearly 50 years apart in age, in fact I think it may have been 53 years?

...and I've a bit of a confession to make here. My natal Mars is in bi-quintile aspect with Phoenixvenus. I didn't tell her I was going to start this thread but she discovered it soon after. We had a bit of a "relationship" going via the internet for a few years, but we never met in person. The difference in our ages is what kept me from agreeing to meeting in person as it didn't seem appropriate to let it become anything more than what it is. We do have one of the most interesting composite charts I've ever encountered and I had a dream almost immediately after I answered a question of hers in a thread of hers...never heard of her before I saw that thread...no knowledge of her... but I met Her in that dream. I could describe her physically [about 5' 4"", red hair, Jewish looking] and a very intimate, personal, object of hers and where it was at the time [a hand carved sign that read "REIKI" that her father had made for her and hung on a beam in his workshop over a scrap pile of wood ...as in the dream she showed me this sign, hanging over a scrap pile of wood and told me that it was going to be her new profession.]

Mind blowing stuff.. for sure. She helped me immensely over the ensuing years, with understanding Astrological Parts, she rectified a few techniques, and together we rectified a number of titles for erroneously titled Astrological Parts. She did the grammatical editing of my book...which was sorely needed...for the revised edition which I will have ...hopefully...to the publisher before too much longer. She has been a God send... and I do love Her dearly.

My friend, spiritual confidante, and renowned clairvoyant, Clarisse Conner, told us that we knew one another, quite well, in a previous lifetime.

Also, I since learned that she has many aspects that indicate possible powers of telepathy.

...but I still don't know what goes on in a biquintile relationship between a mans' Mars and a womans' Venus... darn it....!!

Oh pooh...
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Last edited by piercethevale; 04-17-2021 at 12:45 AM. Reason: Corrected "...what goes one..." to "...what goes on..."
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