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  #1  
Unread 01-31-2007, 08:48 PM
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Was Jesus the 'person' that christian orthodox religion claims to have been or not?

Hi all,
I don't know if anybody had allready asked that in horary but let's give it a try... cause it always bothers my mind as I am raised in this religion but I always have a more 'universal' feeling for whose God is right. What if he was human in the highest octave?
(Of course I must admit that christian orthodox religion describes Jesus with asserting much love-some personal thoughts here..)
I will first post the data and come back for some interpretations...
11:42 pm
Athens Greece
31/1/2007
I am sorry, I only know how to zip image in order to post it..
The moon is in Cancer in its dignity even though is VOC, it deserves an answer with Spica on the ASC.
Moon conjucts MC from the 9th, that's a positive sign, what do you think?I would say that the dogma of religion is in 9th and mercury is significator for religion. Go for yes..
But who is for Jesus?
If we take him as a leader should be Saturn? Then Saturn opposes mercury which is dissapointing, but they are received by terms..:59:
If we take Jesus as Jupiter in the sign that has dignity Sagit., he is in 2nd house for expanding our beliefs' system.And I only see applying aspect with Sun-leaders intercepted in house 4th in the intercepted axis of Leo-Aquarious...
POF is in 7th for astrologers, so it might getting somewhere with some help from you.
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Last edited by Fem Greek; 01-31-2007 at 10:36 PM.
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  #2  
Unread 02-01-2007, 02:11 AM
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Re: Was Jesus the 'person' that christian orthodox religion claims to have been or no

Hi

To me the reference in your question to the Christian Orthodox religion is irrelevant, as by definition God is the only the final destination, and every religion is actually merely showing the path to there. Also, the understanding on the nature of God is beyond the claims of a religious person or another, as it is mostly (99.99%) an understanding that comes from within, from your soul and not from your mind.

Let's take an ordered approach to your question and chart.

The focus is actually Jesus. Who is Jesus for you? As a spiritual/religious person who lived long ago. It is therefore natural to assign Him the 9th house in Gemini and its ruler Mercury. We see Mercury in Aquarius, which is a human sign, in the last decan. Jesus was a human "in the highest octave".
Mercury separates from an opposition with Saturn, ruler of the turned 8th house, therefore Saturn is representing his death, and applies by sextile to Pluto, which stands for resurrection.
These aspects offer the picture of Jesus dying as a human and resurrecting as God, just as the Orthodox Christian religion "claims" and which represents the core of its message.
Prior to the opposition with Saturn (death) Mercury's aspects were the sextile with Jupiter and conjunction with Neptune, rulers of the turned 9th house (the life of spiritual teachings and guidance he offered to people).

The Moon in Cancer isn't totally void of course, as traditional horary sources say, it merely points out a spiritually oriented question, there're no further events related to the question.

And you're actually concerned with something else than Jesus, you're actually challenging the religious authorities (Moon conjunct the MC from the 9th house in square with the Ascendant). The waning square of the Moon to the ASC says that these religious authorities have a point, but you're having a hard time to accept this (the waning square of a cycle = crisis of consciousness).

Btw, the ASC on Spica shows you divinely inspired when asking the question, as this chart is too perfect.
Venus, the ASC ruler and your main significator, is exalted in Pisces and conjunct the fixed star Fomalhaut, a royal fixed stars of very fortunate influence, that gives a change from a material to a spiritual form of expression, stimulates the development of a spiritual viewpoint and gives treasures in the next world. [see these references for Fomalhaut: http://gryphonastrology.wordpress.com/tag/fomalhaut/, http://www.winshop.com.au/annew/Fomalhaut.html]

This chart was too perfect to miss, so I put an article on it http://www.astrologyweekly.com/more-horary/jesus.php

Last edited by Radu; 02-01-2007 at 03:14 AM.
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Unread 02-01-2007, 08:55 PM
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Re: Was Jesus the 'person' that christian orthodox religion claims to have been or no

Hi Radu,
first of all, thanks for your enlightment here, I think that you interpreted the chart in a ...magical easy way!and for posting it as paradigm of horary.And you give us many good information to learn.
The question just hit me. Actually the Venus at 5 Pisces is very close to my asc in 6,45---it is possible that I may have been born 5-10 minutes earlier from what my mother has told me.
I just have to explain more what is behind this question...

To me the reference in your question to the Christian Orthodox religion is irrelevant, as by definition God is the only the final destination, and every religion is actually merely showing the path to there. Also, the understanding on the nature of God is beyond the claims of a religious person or another, as it is mostly (99.99%) an understanding that comes from within, from your soul and not from your mind.

While I was asking, I had in my mind the religious authority's claim, you re right as you are right in the point of ressuraction on which Jesus was proved. I mean that I was taught that the church based on this fact-ressuraction-is giving Jesus the mission as Son of God. SO he is quided and inspired by the holy spirit and the three of them are the trinity. For this story, then Jesus is not human but a creature that have been embodied to bring the HIGHER TRUTH to generations and that holy trinity exists both apart and as whole.
As you are doctor, I bet you know that the capabilities of the brain are unexplored so for me a human with higher knowledge and gift may have been able to do extraordinary things and live with love and suffer.
I really love to hear someone say God is within us.
What I challenge most in the religion authority is the denial of metensarkosis, past lives and next lives cause it ruines the foundations of this life toward christianity basic theoryand rules. They don't accepted it as they have been taught by Jesus word. But I believe that Jesus words are misunderstood and misinterpreted.
Per example, Am I sin that I study astrology? No for me, Yes for them.
That is why I started from finding the significator for religion. But I quess..I want to solve a mystery keep holding ages..!
I read your answer many times as your uncoding of this chart was wonderful but a small part of me says that it might this chart has something more to reveal.Please if you have time, see if the Sun has anything new to give towards info.

:60:

Last edited by Fem Greek; 02-01-2007 at 10:12 PM.
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Unread 02-01-2007, 10:14 PM
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Re: Was Jesus the 'person' that christian orthodox religion claims to have been or no

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Unread 02-01-2007, 10:26 PM
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Re: Was Jesus the 'person' that christian orthodox religion claims to have been or no

ops!
Look at the fixed star on karmic nodes:
16 of Pisces near to Achernar 'themouth of the river': religious benefits, access to another realm
Look at the fixed star in Jesus:
27 of Aquarious exaclty at GienahSoar to great heights, potential of sudden downfall..!
If the mission of Jesus is the 10th from the 9th...then it is the critical point 29 degr.in Pisces (highly idealistic and extreme misfortune with fixed star Scheat )
and Jupiter is found on 2nd originalhouse and 6th from the 9th.
6th house is duty,isn't it?!
come on Fem Greek, is horary a miracle,or we see what we want to see?

Last edited by Fem Greek; 02-01-2007 at 10:44 PM.
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Unread 02-01-2007, 11:31 PM
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Re: Was Jesus the 'person' that christian orthodox religion claims to have been or no

I couldn't resist posting this chart in a form that is more comfortable for me. The interception is so important here, the new Aquarian Age we are on the cusp of with Pisces, the age Jesus ushered in, ruling 2 houses. And if that isn't enough, the degree of expiation and atonement is on the 6th cusp, showing those he served? or those that served him?

Jupiter rules the hour, very appropriate. He rules the face of 25Libra so the chart is radical. Jupiter is exalted in the void Moon's sign, interesting. His last recorded words before death were "It is finished". Jupiter exalts Venus, ruler of the ascendant, you. I think he's glad you brought this question up. You are honored by him. Looking at the 5th house, natural house of the Sun, King, I see the two Mary's. See Venus standing next to Ceres?

His friends and disciples called him Rabbi. Jupiter, at the degree of the great attractor is about to enter the house of education as the teacher-Rabbi, but not for a while yet. First the business of the interception needs to be resolved. Cancer Moon went void when she trined Uranus in mutual agreement with Neptune, ruling Pisces. It seems what they wanted most was a strong king who would come onto the scene, take charge and do it all for them. (Saturn in his detriment in Leo intercepted) But the King, Sun is in his detriment being in the sign of what is best for all concerned. While it's nice to be the star, it may not further the evolutionary growth to continue to let others depend on you for what they can and must learn to do for themselves. You see, he said we all are gods. He said he came to show us the way so that we can be at-one.

The theme of Leo/Aquarius is centralization vs distribution; learning to take credit for where we deserve to shine while realizing that all we've accomplished is based on what has come before. We are all a part of the big picture. What I can do is possible because of what I've learned from those that came before me. Both Sun and Saturn being in mutual reception with each other isn't much of a strength because Saturn should be happy being a part of the group rather that being center stage, autonomous. Sun shines best when he is center stage but is tring to be anonymous, hiding in the crowd.

Saturn in Leo in the house of authority trine Pluto in the sign of religion and the house of thinking and communications says to me that there has been a misuse of power through interpretation of the word in order to create fear as a tool for power and control of the masses. This chart says that because of the interception there is a deficiency or lack in 5/11 that is projected onto the service/charity axis of 6/12. Since the Pisces side has been pretty well covered, I'd say the deficiency is on the Mercury/Virgo side. That makes sense if certain facts have been withheld. For example, did you know that the only word for husband in the Hebrew language is baal. Yes, the false god of the Old Testament. Baal means master, slave owner, husband and is Bel, Jupiter in Babylonian tradition. And Satan? That is prounounced sa-tan' in Hebrew. It means the accusor or adversary. He was never called the devil as far as I can tell. That was added much later. And in Revelation when Jesus says he is the bright morning star? That is Lucifer, Venus as the morning star. But our Christian fathers, my grandfather turned Lucifer into the devil. If it wasn't for the writer of Revelation adding a curse to the last chapter to keep anyone from cutting anything out, that little piece of gold might have been lost forever.
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Unread 02-02-2007, 12:21 AM
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Re: Was Jesus the 'person' that christian orthodox religion claims to have been or not?

Aquarianessence,
your interpretation on the interception was really amazing refllecting on both parties motives, Jesus and religion.
Just a small note, Mars in 7th house (from 9th) shows strong associates and strong enemies.
Your sentence about me is ....what can I say, the best I have ever heard!Transiting Jupiter conjucts my natal venus and neptune near to my natal MC.If nothing good, then I am inspired.
Thanks for your valuable info.
You know AquarianEssence and RAdu, the tools (like the doctors have) of an 'operation' are on our hands, the success of an 'operation' depends on how we use them. Put operation for interpreting charts and tools for points and planets.
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Last edited by Fem Greek; 02-02-2007 at 12:26 AM.
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Unread 02-02-2007, 06:10 AM
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Re: Was Jesus the 'person' that christian orthodox religion claims to have been or no

Trying to understand more of this chart by the same ordered horary approach:

Jesus is represented in the 9th house in Gemini, a dual sign, pointing out a dual nature: divine and human, as born of the Holy Spirit and Mary.

The religious authority whose claims you are challenging is represented in the 10th house.

Saturn in detriment and retrograde in the 10th house indicates the traditional views and ideas propagated through the Orthodox Christian church, they are so attached to the traditions and patterns and so resistant to changes. No wonder they reject reincarnation, if someone they trust rejected it in the past, they're unlikely to reinstate it.
The whole sign of Leo is intercepted in the 10th house, making the Sun as its secondary ruler. AquarianEssence explains this interception well.
But on the other hand, the main 10th house ruler, is the Moon in domicile in Cancer and cardinal, indicating a lively religion, with mysteries and miracles, such as the one that occurs yearly on a regular basis for hundreds of years on Easter, at Jerusalem, only in the Greek Orthodox church, at Jesus' tomb: the Holy Light that spontaneously lights up candles and doesn't burn the skin.

Here again, some dualism between dogma and control on one hand and genuine pure spirituality on the other hand. I'd say go for what you know is true and take only that from this religion. It may be stuck in terms of mind patterns as a whole, but it has much to offer in terms of soul experiences. I've met Orthodox monks who had a thinking more advanced that cutting news modern physics, so it's as always, different on an individual basis.
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Unread 02-02-2007, 09:53 AM
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Re: Was Jesus the 'person' that christian orthodox religion claims to have been or no

Thanks Fem. Radu's advice to take what yuo find to be true and leave the rest is very good advise. One thing I've noticed about interceptions is that they act as a magnet to draw in events that will bring balance, guarenteed. Do you remember that spot in the scriptures where Jesus said it wasn't yet his time? I wonder if that is what this mutual reception with Saturn and Sun is about. He was perhaps thrust into public view before it was the proper time leaving some unfinished business that will now be completed before the Aquarian age can be fully unveiled. I have a feeling it has something to do with Judas, part of his Aquarian Group resources. Judah=Leo=Judas. Jesus is decended from Judah. Judah's descendant is Aquarius. Could the wrong person be holding the cup, represented by Sun in Aquarius and it should really be Saturn (turned into Satan by the authorities) in Leo? If so, they need to trade attire. Or could the Gemini duality mystery here be that they are one and the same?

Could the Jesus that overturned the tables be Judas and the Jesus that taught turning the other cheek in love be the Messiah? Perhaps when Saturn moves into Virgo we will KNOW. I think this chart is talking to us politically about the unrest in the Middle East too. It gives me comfort to know the interception WILL resolve the imbalance. I couldn't help but notice where Orphicus, the 13th sign is. The 6th from the 9th, his true servants are the serpent holders, the healers. Vesta is among them.

Thanks for sharing this chart.
Connie
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Unread 04-30-2007, 05:18 PM
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Smile Re: Was Jesus the 'person' that christian orthodox religion claims to have been or not?

Hi all
Please bear with me as I share my few cents worth. I grew up in fundamental christian mainstream church. I have been in that place all my life and I love God and serve God with all my heart. But I no longer follow fundamental mainstream christianity nor orthodox christianity.

I have come to understand that there is a lot more to this Jesus than what they tell us in church. There is more to Jesus than what is written in the Bible of today. The early church until the 3rd century followed very different teachings than the church of today.

When the Roman church rose and became the church of the Roman Empire, much of the Gospels were modified and changed to suit a Roman environment. The Nicean council decided to put a few books together and call it the Bible. Then they told humanity that this Bible is the ONLY , and total and inerrant Word of God. They decided that the other books which Jesus read, taught and believed were now heresy and much of the teachings of Jesus were abolished. The Roman church finally abolished the doctrine of reincarnation in 550 CE. And so the church went into the dark ages where humanity lived for 10 centuries in ignorance. The church 's view today is that astrology is evil and from the devil. Reincarnation is not Biblical and therefor not christian.

Jesus was also linked to a community of people called the Essenes. In fact, He was branded as their leader! The Essenes taught and practised astrology. They taught and believed in reincarnation. Jesus also studied the Tree of Life in the Qabbalah. But the Roman church would not let us know these things. And so the Gnostic scriptures, the books of Enoch, and the great library of Alexandria was burnt to the ground. The Essenes were able to hide some of the scrolls where they were discovered in the previous century.

If you know how the devil operates then you understand that , to control people, you keep them in ignorance. But God is busy restoring the church, the TRUE church, and I am not refering to institutions of religion, but the way of Jesus, which is a simple but powerful way. We have all the tools available to do the work Jesus did AND more!

So Jesus was real, but the picture of Jesus painted by the church and the Bible is not the complete picture. God has 2 sides. Jesus is depicted in the Book of Revelation as BOTH the Lion and the Lamb. We see God in both severity/justice and in mercy. There are 2 pillars on the Tree of life. Righteousness and justice. If we follow Jesus we must follow Jesus in His teaching, his death and resurrection.

I have printed a number of articles on my website around this. Please feel free to have a look.

www.godsfriends.co.uk

There is much work to be done for us to see the Kingdom of God in earth as it is in heaven, and reincarnation and and astrology and what we do here is going to be a big part of it!
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