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  #151  
Unread 06-29-2020, 11:59 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Bullying

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Originally Posted by Abby83 View Post
Oh come on. Saturn aspects are shorter and nowhere near as abusive. Just lessons.
Saturn gives the test before teaching the lesson. Like throwing a child into the deep end of the pool without a life-preserver or flotation device before teaching the swimming lessons: "Sink or swim", and if the child survives, the lesson will have been learned!


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  #152  
Unread 06-29-2020, 12:46 PM
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Re: Bullying

^ just described my life. Itís a good way to learn, in retrospect.
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  #153  
Unread 06-30-2020, 02:51 AM
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Re: Bullying

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Im someone with pluto 10 degrees away from my sun and i must say i can be obsessive and stubborn, but i still do not bully.
Well, we are not reading your personal chart here, so what I was saying was in a more generic sense. The point I was trying to make was that Pluto can impart certain tendencies that can be the source of underlying currents to bullying. Mars, on the other hand, being a personal planet, will make one act fast and tough - so the bullying can be seen without any long lead time (unlike with Plu). Take Trump for e.g., he has Mars on his Asc. and acts feisty and fast. Ura on his Sun makes him very erratic marching to his own bloody beat not caring for any structures or norms.

You might not be using the Pluto energy to bully, but perhaps, and no offence intended here, the stubbornness or obsessive attitude can lead towards bullying, if not checked.

Also, sometimes, actually most of the times, we perceive ourselves in a different light than how others perceive us.
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  #154  
Unread 06-30-2020, 02:59 AM
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Re: Bullying

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In the ancient Greek religion, Pluto was one of the 3 gods with "Earthly Authority", bestowed upon them by Gaea, the goddess who personified the Earth. Zeus was sky-god, Poseidon, sea-god, and Pluto ruled anything below the Earth's crust.

Both Poseidon/Neptune and Pluto were of the deep realms, and I see their influence as being deep psychologically-speaking. They aren't focused on the material world, like Zeus/Jupiter and Cronos/Saturn.

Pluto is about the Soul, and its journey after death, aided by Hermes/Mercury. Transformations are ruled by Plu.

I bring the ancient religious pantheons, mostly Sumerian, Egyptian, and Greco-Roman, into my interpretation of rulership characteristics, with a focus on Greco-Roman. I realize that not everyone does, but it helps me with my readings. As waybread often says, "It works for me.".
Yeah, perhaps it doesn't work for me.

Neptune is no innocent lamb either in my eyes. It could do away with boundaries, but on the down side, it can make one lose the ground from under one's feet and simply build castles in the air. Two sides to every coin.

Even Jup's exaggeration - can make one overdo things. Nothing is only good.
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  #155  
Unread 06-30-2020, 03:12 AM
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Re: Bullying

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Well, we are not reading your personal chart here, so what I was saying was in a more generic sense. The point I was trying to make is that Pluto can impart certain tendencies that can be the source of underlying currents to bullying. Mars, on the other hand, being a personal planet, will make one act fast and tough - so the bullying can be seen without any long lead time (as with Plu). Take Trump for e.g., he has Mars on his Asc. and acts feisty and fast. Ura on his Sun makes him very erratic marching to his own bloody beat not caring for any structures or norms.

You might not be using the Pluto energy to bully, but perhaps, and no offence intended here, the stubbornness or obsessive attitude can lead towards bullying, if not checked.

Also, sometimes, actually most of the times, we perceive ourselves in a different light than others perceive us.
My tendency to want to possess men was brought to my attention by a psychic. And he is right. Although i see it more as wanting to have a deep committed connection where we are both only interested in each other. And i like being clingy and smothering. If i cross the line with obsessiveness i eventually find out about it either through the other person or a friend and ill back of. So i make the choice to back off.
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  #156  
Unread 06-30-2020, 03:17 AM
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Re: Bullying

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Yeah, perhaps it doesn't work for me.

Neptune is no innocent lamb either in my eyes. It could do away with boundaries, but on the down side, it can make one lose the ground from under one's feet and simply build castles in the air. Two sides to every coin.

Even Jup's exaggeration - can make one overdo things. Nothing is only good.
I agree with this.

Im going to use my MIL's chart again as an example. Her chart clearly shows that men (mars and sun in pisces) are absolutely thrilled and allured by her charms (she is venus in pisces). She puts on the fake charm as an act whenever she wants a man to do something that will harm a woman in a hidden way so that the men dont realise they're harming at all. She also plays the victim to get what she wants from men which is a classic piscean and 12th house and neptune trait. When it comes to women she's the exact opposite. She's the meanest cruelest person to women i've ever seen - once again, with the help of the men in her life. In no way will she directly harm ppl which is a mars energy. She finds hidden and even energetic ways to hypnotize situations in her favour. I guess this is what happens when a female is raised to believe that in order to get anywhere in life, one must win the man over and attack the competition of other females out there. This is why i love god so much. An abuser cant fool god. She cant win god over with her charms. He sees what she is doing. And everytime i have prayed to god to punish those who have harmed me my prayers have come true.

Last edited by Abby83; 06-30-2020 at 03:21 AM.
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  #157  
Unread 06-30-2020, 03:55 AM
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Re: Bullying

I am not a bully. I am very directed, in what I do. I am not very fearful of much. If I believe myself correct, I stand my ground.

Pluto is conjunct my MC. Scorpio ascending. Mars detrimental in Cancer, sextile Pluto.

It been a barrel of laughs!
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  #158  
Unread 06-30-2020, 04:14 AM
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Re: Bullying

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I am not a bully. I am very directed, in what I do. I am not very fearful of much. If I believe myself correct, I stand my ground.

Pluto is conjunct my MC. Scorpio ascending. Mars detrimental in Cancer, sextile Pluto.

It been a barrel of laughs!
FYI standing your ground doesnt work with abusers, if by standing your ground you mean standing up to them.
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  #159  
Unread 06-30-2020, 12:18 PM
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Re: Bullying

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FYI standing your ground doesnt work with abusers, if by standing your ground you mean standing up to them.
In my experience that is not always the case. In at least a few cases I've stopped verbal abuse by not backing down from my abuser, either by treating their abuse as a joke and turning the laugh on them or by having a good enough comeback that they were silenced. A lot of the time the bully wants to feel powerful, as if they have power over you... If you don't give them any power that alone can put a stop to the bullying.

I can also remember one instance of physical abuse that I managed to stop by taking a stand. A gang of bullies wanted to intimidate and hurt me by throwing tennis balls really hard at me. When instead of cowering I actually caught the balls, that seemed to snap them out of the mindset of bullying. I guess it wasn't fun if I wasn't scared.

Now, abuse is never the victim's fault, let me make that clear. But in certain circumstances there are things you can do to make yourself less of a victim.
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  #160  
Unread 06-30-2020, 02:28 PM
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FYI standing your ground doesnt work with abusers, if by standing your ground you mean standing up to them.
FYI, I was bullied quite a bit in my youth. My parents moved once or twice a year. I went to 12 grades and 13 schools. Being the new kid, you are susceptible to bullying by the homeyís. What worked in my favour, was being good at school, and excelling in sports. I am very experienced in being bullied.

I agree with Domna, sometimes you can change from being abused. There are those that canít, sadly, for them I wish them interior strength to get over the abuses they suffered or suffer. Sometimes getting away from the abuser(s) work. But, some become eternal victims. Victimized and proving that they are victims forever. A lot of them victimize others, and blame it on their victim. They donít see that they perpetuate the situation.
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  #161  
Unread 06-30-2020, 02:29 PM
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In my experience that is not always the case. In at least a few cases I've stopped verbal abuse by not backing down from my abuser, either by treating their abuse as a joke and turning the laugh on them or by having a good enough comeback that they were silenced. A lot of the time the bully wants to feel powerful, as if they have power over you... If you don't give them any power that alone can put a stop to the bullying.

I can also remember one instance of physical abuse that I managed to stop by taking a stand. A gang of bullies wanted to intimidate and hurt me by throwing tennis balls really hard at me. When instead of cowering I actually caught the balls, that seemed to snap them out of the mindset of bullying. I guess it wasn't fun if I wasn't scared.

Now, abuse is never the victim's fault, let me make that clear. But in certain circumstances there are things you can do to make yourself less of a victim.
Thanks, and well done, and well said.
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  #162  
Unread 06-30-2020, 07:33 PM
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Re: Bullying

There is deeper and darker sorts of narcissistic abuse where you can't see the tennis balls being thrown at you. In that case, it is better to be passive. The deeper and darker the abuse, the better it is to be passive in general.
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  #163  
Unread 07-01-2020, 12:21 AM
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Re: Bullying

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Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
There is deeper and darker sorts of narcissistic abuse where you can't see the tennis balls being thrown at you. In that case, it is better to be passive. The deeper and darker the abuse, the better it is to be passive in general.
While bullying is abuse, its connotation is different. Deep dark abuse, I would not label, as bullying.
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  #164  
Unread 07-01-2020, 01:08 AM
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Re: Bullying

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In my experience that is not always the case. In at least a few cases I've stopped verbal abuse by not backing down from my abuser, either by treating their abuse as a joke and turning the laugh on them or by having a good enough comeback that they were silenced. A lot of the time the bully wants to feel powerful, as if they have power over you... If you don't give them any power that alone can put a stop to the bullying.

I can also remember one instance of physical abuse that I managed to stop by taking a stand. A gang of bullies wanted to intimidate and hurt me by throwing tennis balls really hard at me. When instead of cowering I actually caught the balls, that seemed to snap them out of the mindset of bullying. I guess it wasn't fun if I wasn't scared.

Now, abuse is never the victim's fault, let me make that clear. But in certain circumstances there are things you can do to make yourself less of a victim.
It sounds like these bullies weren't very good at bullying which is why you were successful. But there are lots out there who will always find a way to keep you as the focus for ppl to hate. Eg; if i used your example with my MIL she would immediately play the victim, convince everyone (her large group of supporters) you hit her and then send that large group on you. You wouldnt stand a chance with her and she would exhaust you until you give up and walk away.
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  #165  
Unread 07-01-2020, 01:10 AM
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Re: Bullying

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There is deeper and darker sorts of narcissistic abuse where you can't see the tennis balls being thrown at you. In that case, it is better to be passive. The deeper and darker the abuse, the better it is to be passive in general.
This is true. Even if you stand up to them, you're pretty much ****** if they can click their fingers and get others holding your arms and legs and attack you for them. Bullies surround themselves with supporters and followers who will do anything they say or ask out of fear.

Last edited by Abby83; 07-01-2020 at 01:13 AM.
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  #166  
Unread 07-01-2020, 05:34 AM
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While bullying is abuse, its connotation is different. Deep dark abuse, I would not label, as bullying.
The first sentence said there is darker bullying than tennis balls being thrown at you because the weapons are not visible and it is deeper and darker. Then there is abuse. There are levels of bullying which is dark. It destroys your self-esteem.

Last edited by Ukpoohbear; 07-01-2020 at 09:54 AM.
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  #167  
Unread 07-01-2020, 05:48 AM
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This is true. Even if you stand up to them, you're pretty much ****** if they can click their fingers and get others holding your arms and legs and attack you for them. Bullies surround themselves with supporters and followers who will do anything they say or ask out of fear.
Reading about your experiences with your MIL has been comforting knowing that Iím not alone tbh. You know exactly how bullying works and how it feels. Itís hidden abuse and itís very common, even if not the exact mould every time, but itís amazing how hidden and unknown it is.

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  #168  
Unread 07-01-2020, 11:22 AM
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Re: Bullying

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The first sentence said there is darker bullying than tennis balls being thrown at you because the weapons are not visible and it is deeper and darker. Then there is abuse. There are levels of bullying which is dark. It destroys your self-esteem.
I see a difference between bullying and deep, dark abuse.

Bullying, is usually done by children.

Deep, dark abuse is usually done by adults.

While the scars that they leave are similar, bullying was not labeled as deep, dark abuse because most 5 year to 10 year olds shouldn't get a jail term. They need therapy, to determine why they are expressing domination tendencies and to show them how to express their anger in a positive way, before they become deep, dark abusers.

I think we are all aware that bullying destroys the self esteem.
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  #169  
Unread 07-01-2020, 02:49 PM
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I see a difference between bullying and deep, dark abuse.

Bullying, is usually done by children.

Deep, dark abuse is usually done by adults.

While the scars that they leave are similar, bullying was not labeled as deep, dark abuse because most 5 year to 10 year olds shouldn't get a jail term. They need therapy, to determine why they are expressing domination tendencies and to show them how to express their anger in a positive way, before they become deep, dark abusers.

I think we are all aware that bullying destroys the self esteem.
Bullying can be done by adults too, although abuse canít be done by children. This is a thread where people have shared their experiences if being bullied by adults so I donít understand why you are choosing to make that distinction with just me and what it has got to do with what I said.

ĎI think we are all aware,í it is condescending. The reason I said it is because having tennis balls being thrown at you will not destroy your self esteem but darker, deeper bullying can.

Also, because the distinction between bullying and abuse can overlap, people are sharing both. Not all bullying will destroy your self esteem.

Last edited by Ukpoohbear; 07-01-2020 at 03:11 PM.
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  #170  
Unread 07-01-2020, 03:09 PM
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Re: Bullying

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The reason I said it is because having tennis balls being thrown at you will not destroy your self esteem but darker, deeper bullying can.
For context... the bullies made clear to me that the reason they threw balls at me instead of hitting or kicking me was that I was too ugly and dirty to touch. I don't appreciate having the bulling I suffered minimized by people who weren't there and don't know what impact incidents like that had on me and my self-esteem.
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  #171  
Unread 07-01-2020, 03:14 PM
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For context... the bullies made clear to me that the reason they threw balls at me instead of hitting or kicking me was that I was too ugly and dirty to touch. I don't appreciate having the bulling I suffered minimized by people who weren't there and don't know what impact incidents like that had on me and my self-esteem.
It doesnít sound nice but thereís a difference between a fight and a war. Why I brought it up was because not all bullying can be successfully dealt with so easily. So I bet you donít have experience with being destroyed or you would understand what I am saying.

Also, I wasnít the only one to comment on your experience, yet you are only offended by my comment. Hmm.
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  #172  
Unread 07-01-2020, 03:34 PM
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Re: Bullying

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It doesn’t sound nice but there’s a difference between a fight and a war. Why I brought it up was because not all bullying can be successfully dealt with so easily. So I bet you don’t have experience with being destroyed or you would understand what I am saying.

Also, I wasn’t the only one to comment on your experience, yet you are only offended by my comment. Hmm.
There is a reason I used the word 'people' instead of the word 'you'. This answer wasn't directed only at you. My point is that you (none of you) were in my head when I was a child. I was bullied for ten years and it took another ten years before I could look in a mirror and like what I saw, before I could feel comfortable in my own body. The bullying I suffered may not have destroyed all of me, but it definitely destroyed my self-esteem for a good long while. Having those 20 years minimized hurts. Does it matter whose pain was worse? Is there a point in trying to compare abuse and see who was more destroyed by it? That's not why we're here, is it?

Last edited by Domna; 07-01-2020 at 03:40 PM.
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  #173  
Unread 07-01-2020, 11:22 PM
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Re: Bullying

I think both bullying and abuse can be done by both adults and children. Plenty of examples around.

Both often arise from one's own insecurities, but proper abuse is when things are taken too far.

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Bullying can be done by adults too, although abuse canít be done by children. This is a thread where people have shared their experiences if being bullied by adults so I donít understand why you are choosing to make that distinction with just me and what it has got to do with what I said.

ĎI think we are all aware,í it is condescending. The reason I said it is because having tennis balls being thrown at you will not destroy your self esteem but darker, deeper bullying can.

Also, because the distinction between bullying and abuse can overlap, people are sharing both. Not all bullying will destroy your self esteem.
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  #174  
Unread 07-02-2020, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
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Bullying can be done by adults too, although abuse canít be done by children. This is a thread where people have shared their experiences if being bullied by adults so I donít understand why you are choosing to make that distinction with just me and what it has got to do with what I said.

ĎI think we are all aware,í it is condescending. The reason I said it is because having tennis balls being thrown at you will not destroy your self esteem but darker, deeper bullying can.

Also, because the distinction between bullying and abuse can overlap, people are sharing both. Not all bullying will destroy your self esteem.
Well Uk,

One thing I do know from my past with you, is that I like you. So since the transits of everything are messing with 3 planets and my asc at 24-25 degrees, hey, it could be me😄.

Later uk, I want no issue with you my friend.
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  #175  
Unread 07-02-2020, 05:00 AM
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There is a reason I used the word 'people' instead of the word 'you'. This answer wasn't directed only at you. My point is that you (none of you) were in my head when I was a child. I was bullied for ten years and it took another ten years before I could look in a mirror and like what I saw, before I could feel comfortable in my own body. The bullying I suffered may not have destroyed all of me, but it definitely destroyed my self-esteem for a good long while. Having those 20 years minimized hurts. Does it matter whose pain was worse? Is there a point in trying to compare abuse and see who was more destroyed by it? That's not why we're here, is it?
Your comment was directed at me, it was only my quote you replied to.

Nevertheless, my point still stands, using tennis balls as an analogy, that it is hard to put a stop to bullying when you canít see the weapons. So not all bullying can be dealt with by simply catching the balls, so how are you meant to stop it? You donít seem interested in the point I was making, but just want to reiterate your own experience. This is a one sided conversation.

Last edited by Ukpoohbear; 07-02-2020 at 05:13 AM.
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