Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Natal Astrology

Natal Astrology A place to discuss yours and others' birth charts (after you post your own birth chart interpretation). Includes psychological and relocation astrology, houses, aspects, and planetary dignity and debility.


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 07-07-2021, 03:35 AM
AppLeo AppLeo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,346
Will I never have friends?

When I look at my 11th house (house of friends) the ruler of that house is Mars. I have a day chart, so by sect, Mars becomes my worst planet. Mars's evil is exacerbated by its debilitation in Cancer. And to make things even WORSE, it's exactly conjunct my descendant, so it gains prominence being on an angle.

I've never really had friends or felt connected to people. I avoid large groups and communities. A solitary lifestyle seems to bring me the most peace because whenever I'm around people, it's like they make me feel bad about myself, abuse my time and energy, or I have this need to cut them out of my life.


Reply With Quote
  #2  
Unread 07-07-2021, 03:36 AM
AppLeo AppLeo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,346
Re: Will I never have friends?

astro_w2gw_kasper_hw.8523.122387.png
...........
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread 07-07-2021, 04:06 AM
CapAquaPis's Avatar
CapAquaPis CapAquaPis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: ...in the sidereal astrological system.
Posts: 3,869
Exclamation Re: Will I never have friends?

A Chiron (wound) in the 11th house (friends, community and society)...I have that in my own 11th under Taurus ruled by Venus however which is conjunct MC in the 10th. Knowing you and myself, we can be too open, come off rude or crass, opinionated, deemed inappropriate and displays improper sense of self. Your planet Mars should be more malefic than my own planet Venus which has conjunct feminine energy of other influences Pallas, Ceres and Eris but in Aries.
__________________
or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 07-07-2021, 04:23 AM
AppLeo AppLeo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,346
Re: Will I never have friends?

Do I really come off as crude and inappropriate to you?

But you make a good point about Chiron. I forgot about that. That seems to only solidify what I mentioned above.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread 07-07-2021, 04:53 AM
waybread's Avatar
waybread waybread is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: A class M planet near you
Posts: 17,241
Re: Will I never have friends?

AppLeo, With Mars ruling your 11th house from the 7th house of open enemies, I think you expressed that when you wrote:

Quote:
whenever I'm around people, it's like they make me feel bad about myself, abuse my time and energy...
You do seem to see other people as the enemy. It's not that you feel badly around other people: but "they" actively make you feel that way. "They" actively abuse your time and energy.

And you're the passive recipient of this, right?

Saturn square sun can confer real issues with self-esteem. The wounded lion retreats to his solitary den to lick his wounds.

Maybe it's time to take responsibility for your part of the equation. People can't just make you feel rotten without your permission.

But beyond that, maybe you're just cut out to be a loner. 8th house people tend to be very private.

The question is, what exactly do you want?
__________________
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 07-07-2021, 05:31 AM
AppLeo AppLeo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,346
Re: Will I never have friends?

[QUOTE=waybread;1116766]AppLeo, With Mars ruling your 11th house from the 7th house of open enemies, I think you expressed that when you wrote:



You do seem to see other people as the enemy. It's not that you feel badly around other people: but "they" actively make you feel that way. "They" actively abuse your time and energy.

And you're the passive recipient of this, right? [QUOTE]

Yes, I often become a doormat or feel taken for granted by "friends"

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Saturn square sun can confer real issues with self-esteem. The wounded lion retreats to his solitary den to lick his wounds.

Maybe it's time to take responsibility for your part of the equation. People can't just make you feel rotten without your permission.

But beyond that, maybe you're just cut out to be a loner. 8th house people tend to be very private.

The question is, what exactly do you want?
Sun-Saturn suggests a negative and losing approach to life that stops one from trying.

The thing is, I want friends, but I wonder if the astrology says that I'm fated or doomed to loneliness. Since the people I come in contact with don't have my best interest.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 07-07-2021, 05:39 AM
obsidianmineral's Avatar
obsidianmineral obsidianmineral is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 526
Re: Will I never have friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
AppLeo, With Mars ruling your 11th house from the 7th house of open enemies, I think you expressed that when you wrote:



You do seem to see other people as the enemy. It's not that you feel badly around other people: but "they" actively make you feel that way. "They" actively abuse your time and energy.

And you're the passive recipient of this, right?

Saturn square sun can confer real issues with self-esteem. The wounded lion retreats to his solitary den to lick his wounds.

Maybe it's time to take responsibility for your part of the equation. People can't just make you feel rotten without your permission.

But beyond that, maybe you're just cut out to be a loner. 8th house people tend to be very private.

The question is, what exactly do you want?
I agree with this, I think. There seems to be quite the spiritual ride promised in the natal chart. Sun in aspect with generationals, in the 8th with Moon in the 9th, also aspecting a generational planet.

Some people write the generationals off but I believe it's because they don't even understand them. They're the most complex. Either way, the main focus of the native seems to be to find transformation. There is light and good will in the Sun in Leo, and his mission in life is to dig deep within and find meaning in all of his trauma so he can be reborn. There is definitely capacity to make it happen (since Sun trines Pluto).

I think planets conjunct to the angles are usually the easiest to spot because they tend to show easily observable events. With Mars in Cancer conjunct the Descendant there, it seems to me like there's a desire to actually connect with others.

I see the 7th house as the way we psychologically view ourselves when we confront others. OP might be serious with other people, considering his ruler is trining Saturn and squaring Pluto. He may view creative outlets as something that shield him from having to deal with others in general. Saturn is in the Moon's exaltation, after all.

To be honest, I'd really like to read this chart more deeply but I think it is hard as hell to understand what the cosmic charts tell us. I'm not a beginner but I'm no expert either. If we're gonna go down the generalization path then it's easy.. but once you know just how much you would need to know about astrology to be able to stop generalizing you just feel baffled and overwhelmed.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 07-07-2021, 03:45 PM
passiflora's Avatar
passiflora passiflora is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,002
Are you super attached to the whole signs chart?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 07-07-2021, 05:48 PM
IleneK's Avatar
IleneK IleneK is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: in this mysterious cosmos
Posts: 6,023
Re: Will I never have friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Do I really come off as crude and inappropriate to you?

Often you do. Not crude; more insolent or rude. But I don't think you are intentionally doing so.
There is a real inner unease with your identity/Sun that comes from Sun's very close applying square to Saturn along with inhospitable reception from Sun to Saturn.

Lots of hard life lessons to be learned with hard contacts between Saturn and the luminaries.
__________________
Ilene

"You gotta have heart..." Richard Adler 1921-2012
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread 07-07-2021, 09:30 PM
AppLeo AppLeo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,346
Re: Will I never have friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by passiflora View Post
Are you super attached to the whole signs chart?
It's more accurate so..

Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
Often you do. Not crude; more insolent or rude. But I don't think you are intentionally doing so.
There is a real inner unease with your identity/Sun that comes from Sun's very close applying square to Saturn along with inhospitable reception from Sun to Saturn.

Lots of hard life lessons to be learned with hard contacts between Saturn and the luminaries.
sad times
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Unread 07-07-2021, 10:06 PM
IleneK's Avatar
IleneK IleneK is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: in this mysterious cosmos
Posts: 6,023
Re: Will I never have friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post



sad times
I would add that I think you are being reshaped right now, by Saturn's passage over your natal Uranus. Times are sad; they will pass when Saturn's transiting cycle completes its work on Uranus at the end of the year. You may learn a lot about yourself during this time.

And you will have a Jupiter return in the spring of 2022. Although natal Jup is largely unaspected in your chart, I think if you follow the timing of it and open yourself to the energies of that conjunction, it can shift and lighten how you are feeling in conversational exchanges with others.
__________________
Ilene

"You gotta have heart..." Richard Adler 1921-2012
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Unread 07-07-2021, 10:22 PM
AppLeo AppLeo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,346
Re: Will I never have friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
I would add that I think you are being reshaped right now, by Saturn's passage over your natal Uranus. Times are sad; they will pass when Saturn's transiting cycle completes its work on Uranus at the end of the year. You may learn a lot about yourself during this time.

And you will have a Jupiter return in the spring of 2022. Although natal Jup is largely unaspected in your chart, I think if you follow the timing of it and open yourself to the energies of that conjunction, it can shift and lighten how you are feeling in conversational exchanges with others.
Ugh that aspect was absolutely disgusting. At the beginning of the year when Saturn-Uranus was at 7 degrees. I was feeling so much anger because I couldn't pass my programming class, and I hated my professor, I just hated it. I did all this work for absolutely nothing. Failed once more. Always behind, never getting ahead. I hate university.

And it was mandatory to have partners for every single assignment and I hate working with people. You have to socialize and make conversation and act like you care. And then when you work on the assignment, they never show up on time, it takes longer to do the work because you have to ask them if that's the code they want to use. The assignments that are already long and tedious become nearly impossible with another person. 10 hours everyday of the week coding, only to barely finish before the due date.

When Jupiter transited by 3rd house, a new relative popped into the family. An overwhelmingly positive one. I think this new person will help me in life, especially when Jupiter fully transitions into Pisces.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread 07-07-2021, 10:44 PM
IleneK's Avatar
IleneK IleneK is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: in this mysterious cosmos
Posts: 6,023
Re: Will I never have friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Ugh that aspect was absolutely disgusting. At the beginning of the year when Saturn-Uranus was at 7 degrees. I was feeling so much anger because I couldn't pass my programming class, and I hated my professor, I just hated it. I did all this work for absolutely nothing. Failed once more. Always behind, never getting ahead. I hate university.

And it was mandatory to have partners for every single assignment and I hate working with people. You have to socialize and make conversation and act like you care. And then when you work on the assignment, they never show up on time, it takes longer to do the work because you have to ask them if that's the code they want to use. The assignments that are already long and tedious become nearly impossible with another person. 10 hours everyday of the week coding, only to barely finish before the due date.

When Jupiter transited by 3rd house, a new relative popped into the family. An overwhelmingly positive one. I think this new person will help me in life, especially when Jupiter fully transitions into Pisces.
Follow the timing of the transits from Saturn to your natal Uranus and Jup to Jup. It will be helpful.
And remember to look at your role in all of these dynamics, past and future, so you can find out what it takes to have friends, if you want them.
Wishing you the best, AppLeo.
Ilene
__________________
Ilene

"You gotta have heart..." Richard Adler 1921-2012
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to IleneK For This Useful Post:
AppLeo (07-07-2021)
  #14  
Unread 07-07-2021, 11:07 PM
passiflora's Avatar
passiflora passiflora is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,002
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
It's more accurate so..
Asking because Mars ISN’T exactly conjunct your 7th cusp in whole signs.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Unread 07-07-2021, 11:18 PM
AppLeo AppLeo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,346
Re: Will I never have friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by passiflora View Post
Asking because Mars ISN’T exactly conjunct your 7th cusp in whole signs.
Yeah, but it's conjunct my DSC regardless of house system. The angles have the most value.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Unread 07-08-2021, 12:38 AM
passiflora's Avatar
passiflora passiflora is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,002
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Yeah, but it's conjunct my DSC regardless of house system. The angles have the most value.
I thought the point of whole signs is that angles are congruent with the beginning of the sign on the angle cusp, and not with the degrees corresponding to actual angles?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Unread 07-08-2021, 12:47 AM
AppLeo AppLeo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,346
Re: Will I never have friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by passiflora View Post
I thought the point of whole signs is that angles are congruent with the beginning of the sign on the angle cusp, and not with the degrees corresponding to actual angles?
No. There's whole sign houses, and there's the angles. The house division is not determined by the angles, but you still take the angles into account, especially when conjunct a planet.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Unread 07-08-2021, 01:04 AM
passiflora's Avatar
passiflora passiflora is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,002
Re: Will I never have friends?

mk. What makes you overlook Venus?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Unread 07-08-2021, 01:08 AM
AppLeo AppLeo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,346
Re: Will I never have friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by passiflora View Post
mk. What makes you overlook Venus?
Cuz I have a DAY chart. I mean I'm sure Venus softens Mars a bit, but not a whole lot.

Last edited by AppLeo; 07-08-2021 at 01:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Unread 07-08-2021, 01:36 AM
passiflora's Avatar
passiflora passiflora is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,002
Re: Will I never have friends?

Well, maybe your friends are doing as you desire. See ct post above
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Unread 07-08-2021, 01:47 AM
conspiracy theorist's Avatar
conspiracy theorist conspiracy theorist is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: clearing
Posts: 16,541
Re: Will I never have friends?

11 house Scorpio
Ruler Mars in 7

Chill with combative people, but prepare for the fallouts. (You've done as much with internet friends on AW)
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Unread 07-08-2021, 04:51 AM
katydid katydid is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,514
Re: Will I never have friends?

=

I don’t think I have ever looked at your chart, App. It is a fascinating one. It has a rough outline, or the vestiges of a 5 pointed Star. Those are formed by interconnecting Yods— and every planet in your chart, except the Sun, is making a quincunx.

Having so many quincunxes might be adding to your impatience with friendships.
Quincunxes force us to make adjustments, make emotional bargains, and accept things we don’t want to accept in others in order to try and relate to them. >>>Or worse, in order for them to relate to us.

When having a lot of natal quincunxes, one may feel awkward or uncomfortable, trying to fit in, and it can create anxiety and depression.

The good news is that quincunxes mature as we mature. And we learn to overcome the awkward feelings and to accept whatever it is we feel uncomfortable about.

The transiting Saturn/Uranus square is sitting on your wide Saturn/Uranus square, but in reverse. So I think you are doing a lot right now to clear out those kinds of issues. I am sure it has been brutal but it helps you to understand your psyche.

The ‘empty leg’ of that T-square to Saturn falls in your 11th, on your Chiron.

So friendships will come together when you work out your own internal fears/insecurities. Chiron in the 11th says friendships come with a cost but you can have them when you prepare yourself to ante up. You have to feel solid within yourself, and not allow others to make you feel bad. THEY are not making you feel that way. You are because you bought into what you learned as a child. REJECT that stuff and be confident in your true desires.

Do a breakdown and unpack your Sun/[Uranus/Neptune] T-square to Saturn in 5th. Something to do with your father and your artistic talents and your belief in yourself and your unique calling. Find that inner strength to stand up for your wild ambitions and out of the world type of beliefs and you might quell that inner anxiety and internal struggle. [do you even want to be a programmer? ]

Friendships will fall into place after all that comes together…
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to katydid For This Useful Post:
AppLeo (07-08-2021)
  #23  
Unread 07-08-2021, 05:38 AM
AppLeo AppLeo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,346
Re: Will I never have friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post
=

I don’t think I have ever looked at your chart, App. It is a fascinating one. It has a rough outline, or the vestiges of a 5 pointed Star. Those are formed by interconnecting Yods— and every planet in your chart, except the Sun, is making a quincunx.

Having so many quincunxes might be adding to your impatience with friendships.
Quincunxes force us to make adjustments, make emotional bargains, and accept things we don’t want to accept in others in order to try and relate to them. >>>Or worse, in order for them to relate to us.

When having a lot of natal quincunxes, one may feel awkward or uncomfortable, trying to fit in, and it can create anxiety and depression.

The good news is that quincunxes mature as we mature. And we learn to overcome the awkward feelings and to accept whatever it is we feel uncomfortable about.
That's really interesting with the quincunxes. I've completely forgot about them because hardly anyone in the astrological community talks about them. I'll have to do more research on those in relation to my chart. The idea of feeling uncomfortable or awkward certainly makes sense. Really not forward to making adjustments though

Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post
The transiting Saturn/Uranus square is sitting on your wide Saturn/Uranus square, but in reverse. So I think you are doing a lot right now to clear out those kinds of issues. I am sure it has been brutal but it helps you to understand your psyche.

The ‘empty leg’ of that T-square to Saturn falls in your 11th, on your Chiron.

So friendships will come together when you work out your own internal fears/insecurities. Chiron in the 11th says friendships come with a cost but you can have them when you prepare yourself to ante up. You have to feel solid within yourself, and not allow others to make you feel bad. THEY are not making you feel that way. You are because you bought into what you learned as a child. REJECT that stuff and be confident in your true desires.

Do a breakdown and unpack your Sun/[Uranus/Neptune] T-square to Saturn in 5th. Something to do with your father and your artistic talents and your belief in yourself and your unique calling. Find that inner strength to stand up for your wild ambitions and out of the world type of beliefs and you might quell that inner anxiety and internal struggle. [do you even want to be a programmer? ]

Friendships will fall into place after all that comes together…
Thank you very much for your analysis.

I totally forgot about Chiron. I didn't realize that the Uranus/Saturn square was exactly aspecting Chiron. For months Uranus and Saturn were at 11-12 degrees! The Chiron is right though, I just need to suffer the pain.

(No I don't want to program. I'm kind of being forced into it by my parents. It's hard to pursue other things when you're not supported in those other things. I want to do creative things with art and youtube videos, but I doubt that is career material)

There seems to be a theme that things will get better over time. I guess with a strong Saturnian influence that would especially make sense.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Unread 07-08-2021, 07:15 AM
blackbery blackbery is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,301
Re: Will I never have friends?

Maybe you just haven't met the right people or your soul tribe members?

What is it that you want from a friendship? Someone to pour your heart out to? To get some TLC that we all need (tender, loving care)? Or do you want friends to discuss deep subjects with?

Or a travelling companion?

Maybe join groups or organizations which interest you & you will meet like-minded people. Like here, you enjoy studying astrology & you have forum friends that you interact with.

But regardless of what you think your chart portrays, there is NO reason at all for you not to have friends/acquaintances if that's what you TRULY WANT.

You are a hermit by nature so being alone suits you...but if you want to make friends, then BE a good friend as what you give out in life returns to you.

Try being more humble too. Arrogance is not really a trait people admire.







Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
When I look at my 11th house (house of friends) the ruler of that house is Mars. I have a day chart, so by sect, Mars becomes my worst planet. Mars's evil is exacerbated by its debilitation in Cancer. And to make things even WORSE, it's exactly conjunct my descendant, so it gains prominence being on an angle.

I've never really had friends or felt connected to people. I avoid large groups and communities. A solitary lifestyle seems to bring me the most peace because whenever I'm around people, it's like they make me feel bad about myself, abuse my time and energy, or I have this need to cut them out of my life.

Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to blackbery For This Useful Post:
AppLeo (07-08-2021)
  #25  
Unread 07-08-2021, 08:00 AM
AppLeo AppLeo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,346
Re: Will I never have friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbery View Post
Maybe you just haven't met the right people or your soul tribe members?

What is it that you want from a friendship? Someone to pour your heart out to? To get some TLC that we all need (tender, loving care)? Or do you want friends to discuss deep subjects with?

Or a travelling companion?

Maybe join groups or organizations which interest you & you will meet like-minded people. Like here, you enjoy studying astrology & you have forum friends that you interact with.

But regardless of what you think your chart portrays, there is NO reason at all for you not to have friends/acquaintances if that's what you TRULY WANT.

You are a hermit by nature so being alone suits you...but if you want to make friends, then BE a good friend as what you give out in life returns to you.

Try being more humble too. Arrogance is not really a trait people admire.

With all the questions you pose, I certainly have a lot to think about. I'm not really sure. I guess that I've been so comfortable by myself that I forget to ask what I want from others. I need to be more conscious in my relationships.

But yeah arrogance isn't exactly a good thing, unless you're correct. Arrogance is fine if you know you're right.

Thanks you, blackbery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Do internet friends count?
Kind of hoping for friends in the flesh. Don't get me started on the internet.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
eleventh, friends, house, mars, scorpio

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 07:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.