Attitude Toward Astrology
- Thread starter greybeard
- Start date
chris10
Well-known member
This post is the ultimate proof to me of what I secretly believed all these years to be true;
I didn't want to believe it cause this would made me feel restricted - and I'm not really fond of restriction with uranus in 1st house squaring my natal sun -
... yes, there is free will as to how we choose to fulfill our natal chart while choosing path A or path B but we are limited as to which paths lie in front of us.
greybeard you just described his life. I've spent only about 30 days with him over the past 39 years due to circumstances but the time I did spend with him, I really got to know him, he tried to hide from me but my scorpio moon left no stone unturned. Everything you described is true for him too, the big dreams when he was starting out, rootlessness, the failed marriages, the alcohol, the surrender...
he never was really good with words but I always understood what he was trying to tell me.
So the circumstances may have been different but the core, inner workings, inherent endowment of traits and attributes remain the same.
I am not saying that you are the same...but both of you have had to face similar demons and similar inner struggles.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
chris10
Well-known member
Rainbow Valley - The Love Affair http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI-yUyBGe-w
Thanks for the link
this group brought back memories of my mom's records
and one of her favorite songs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Le8bH3Y8U&feature=plcp
Enjoy
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
I would say that we FEEL powerless to change our lives, however fwiw IMO 'tis preferable to remain optimistic
JUPITERASC:
Really? But apparently sufficiently powerful to carry out a decision to terminate a life though - thinking to 'escape' those 'difficult circumstances'...
Exactly, that keeps those of us who believe that myth, permanently running ourselves to nowhere fast on 'the hamster wheel of life' It's not easy to step back from 'peer pressure' and use our 'money' more wisely.
Thank you, although from my perspective I'm interested to learn what precisely intelligence is since there appear to be several forms of it, many of which I can do with acquiring!
This person wanted to escape a difficult situation and made an irrevocable change with an act of IMO considerable power, inspired by hopelessness and desperation.
Every death makes incalculable changes to the future.
He had power over his own life and chose ending it which he is entitled to do. We are all entitled to our opinion and for him death seemed a better prospect than life. Whether or not death improved his situation no one knows! As the great song you provided a link to says rather obviously: “Look around you things are changing fast, don't concern yourself with what's ahead, it's too late to live when you are dead!”
There is a far from subtle difference between causing
(1) change for the sake of change - due perhaps to boredom
(2) making changes in order to improve and
(3) making irrevocable changes leading to incalculable consequences
We all have the power to act... sometimes not acting can be equally as powerful.
Our lives are continually changing in any event. One of the tragedies of life is that those who despaired would have succeeded if they had the patience to bide their time just a little longer. It's a matter of what one chooses to believe which is why what one thinks is so important. Thoughts are our constant companions so let's choose good and helpful companions
He felt incompetent, clearly therefore FELT powerless, clearly disliked the lack of power/inability to provide for his family and fwiw IMO, then he exercised the remaining power he had - which was power over his own life - and ended it... just my two cents worth... I get what you are saying.
He could have chosen to exercise the power to battle with life's difficulties but for some reason he felt unable/unwilling to do that. Perhaps he believed that 'death is the end' BUT as my signature states: "Look on every exit as being an entrance somewhere else"
SO
Be wise - look before leaping into the 'unknown' of death – remember the law of unintended consequences.
Peregrine_Moon
Well-known member
I've spent a fair amount of time with people who were near death,and I've also been with some who were dealing with the consequences of others' suicide. What I've seen is that death that comes to us is different from death that we choose.
People seem to commit suicide for various reasons, but in my observation most--not all, but most--of those boil down to not wanting others to see their shame. Perhaps they can't bear the shame of failure to do something or to prevent something from happening. Occasionally they're ashamed of having secrets brought to light. Particularly in the case of people who are bullied or persecuted, they may feel powerless to end their humiliation and suffering any other way. Many withdraw from friends and family so that their loved ones won't see their shame, yet their isolation increases the shame they feel.
Pluto uncovers hidden truths and is usually ruthless about it. But Saturn governs shame.
I don't know whether there are specific astrological indications of suicide, though things like depression are often present in a horoscope and its transits. Death is inevitable, but suicide is a choice.
People seem to commit suicide for various reasons, but in my observation most--not all, but most--of those boil down to not wanting others to see their shame. Perhaps they can't bear the shame of failure to do something or to prevent something from happening. Occasionally they're ashamed of having secrets brought to light. Particularly in the case of people who are bullied or persecuted, they may feel powerless to end their humiliation and suffering any other way. Many withdraw from friends and family so that their loved ones won't see their shame, yet their isolation increases the shame they feel.
Pluto uncovers hidden truths and is usually ruthless about it. But Saturn governs shame.
I don't know whether there are specific astrological indications of suicide, though things like depression are often present in a horoscope and its transits. Death is inevitable, but suicide is a choice.
Blackempress
Well-known member
I agree that in my short-learning of astrology & observing people's lives in perfect 'adherence' to it, I've kinda grown a bit resentful for Not being Born Lucky.
I would doubt timing if the chart doesn't fit the person.
On the other hand, it's True that like it or not, the External Planner has to watch the game according to the Script it's written but we're condemned to believe that it is free-will that allows us to act on what we choose.
Say, a girl decides to run away from home, despite knowing her chart etc from a perfect home without reason, it will still in some way pop out on her chart & she will follow the remaining story. But I do often wonder what if we know the depth of the chart & then try going against everything predicted or even in our nature. For e.g as a Sun-Saturn, I quit studying thoroughly & just go sit behind a desk & start taking sessions... will it change my outcome?
I'm betting 9/10, NO. Likely My insecurity for Not having a 'authorized degree of PHD' minimum is gonna freak my nerves & others will attack sensing that lack of confidence to reinforce it to make me crawl back to learning again despite knowing enough. Though I do wonder if life works magically if I suppress my ambitions & start People-pleasing if it would make me less threatening & more desirable/popular. I have yet to test it out.
Totally agree. I've not come across any person who has yet resolved all their issues & reached self-actualization among-st the people around me despite their social positions.
I would doubt timing if the chart doesn't fit the person.
On the other hand, it's True that like it or not, the External Planner has to watch the game according to the Script it's written but we're condemned to believe that it is free-will that allows us to act on what we choose.
Say, a girl decides to run away from home, despite knowing her chart etc from a perfect home without reason, it will still in some way pop out on her chart & she will follow the remaining story. But I do often wonder what if we know the depth of the chart & then try going against everything predicted or even in our nature. For e.g as a Sun-Saturn, I quit studying thoroughly & just go sit behind a desk & start taking sessions... will it change my outcome?
I'm betting 9/10, NO. Likely My insecurity for Not having a 'authorized degree of PHD' minimum is gonna freak my nerves & others will attack sensing that lack of confidence to reinforce it to make me crawl back to learning again despite knowing enough. Though I do wonder if life works magically if I suppress my ambitions & start People-pleasing if it would make me less threatening & more desirable/popular. I have yet to test it out.
Totally agree. I've not come across any person who has yet resolved all their issues & reached self-actualization among-st the people around me despite their social positions.
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Blackempress
Well-known member
Did You choose out of free-will to Enter this life & would you Exit if it really IS predetermined?
Einstein was Fated... that's the point, it's like Saturn Trine MC or Conj MC or any MC for that matter- people are chosen for those positions & they just walk the track to get to where they should. It's kindda like a Set Marathon, the finish line is waiting for it's rightful winner.
tautomer
Well-known member
Ok, so we can agree there is room for growth. I had a feeling you mean that, I just had trouble reading into where you felt that.
Yes, you are correct I fight with myself A LOT. All the time. I have learned to back off from it and I am not as bad with it as I used to be, but it's a huge part of me. Like you have said, there are some thing that really are hard wired into us that we can do very little to change. For me, one of those thing is "fighting with myself" as you put it (really just insessive thinking. My brain does not turn off). I can reduce it, but it is something within me I can not just willingly make go away. The way I deal with it, is I have accepted it is my tool for personal growth, and it does work. Painful, but it works. I have a lot of 8th house / pluto / scorpio influence. One of the hallmarks of that is death and rebirth, pain, and the depths. I can't avoid it. Self-improvement has been and always will be painful for me in many ways. It's something I have come to accept.
You are right that I do try to geometrize, well, everything. Not just my emotional imaginative side. This is a life long lesson that I must learn, and perhaps one of the toughest ones for me to learn. I am aware of it, and your describing of how you experienced it through life brings it to the forefront of my mind even more. It's something I am beginning to work on. I have an appointment with a professional psycholgist this monday (no more of these on campus phychologists, they can't crack me). This is one of the things I will be working on.
This is where things differ though. You have had a very different life experience from me. My life has always been rooted. Most of it out of luck. Also because of my demand to be grounded (by hell or high water I will ALWAYS ground myself no matter where I am). Anger is also one of the emotions I have been "free" from; it doesn't effect me, nor do I feel it for very long. That's not from things being shut out either.
Because of our life differences, it's doubtful that your methods of figuring out how to live your life in the most positive way you can find, will work for me. That's not to say I can't garner anything from this. Of course I can. There is always something to be taken away from every life experience that someone shares with you.
You speak of string. I rather like that analogy. I feel it is also right. In some ways in some areas I have found string. It's just... my ways of finding string take a long time. For if I find it quickly, I end up ignoring its utility. It's difficult because of how my mind works. I am a highly non-linear thinker. I try to output things in a linear cut-dry manner, but inside my head it's quite far from that. I derive simplicity from high complexity. I find every subtle detail, nuance, tidbit, exception to the rule, etc. and refine it down from there. Because of that, through out my entire life, I have always garnered string from the most complex network you could imagine. I did this with MBTI (personality theory) for years. Eventually I "broke" with it, and backed off completely. Eventually, I emerged with string from it. I would have never understood, or liked the string had I not gone through what I did though. It had been given to me multiple times when I started studying it, but I ignored it. I even tried in some cases to use it, but I did not understand it. One of the biggest lessons I learned is trying to force myself and everyone else into a mold fails horribly. Yet, I would never be able to understand people in the way I do had it not for seeing the failures of a mold.
Really what I am trying to get at here is. Everyones minds are different. You way of operating works supremely well for you. You seem to have learned many a thing many people strive all their life to learn but never get there. That said, not everyone is meant to get where you are, or in the way that you do. Many peoples ways of "getting there" might seem downright wrong, but... they're still getting there, in their own way, in their own right.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Yes indeed. It is my absolute number one moral value. Bar none. I never, ever cross it. Paying attention to others, I do it quite a lot. Perhaps too much. Paying attention to myself, I could afford to do that much less. Still have a long way to go with that.
What I really need to do, is learn to quiet my mind and emotions. Which is impossible. So instead, I must find a plan B to find the same effect.
EDIT: Eh, I don't feel like I am getting my point across. I tried at least.
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Meditation, properly practiced, is specifically designed to quiet the mind.
Santa Teresa de Avila, famous for her prayers, said that the most powerful of prayers is the prayer of silence, which is exactly what the Oriental form of meditation is. It takes unflagging effort over a long period of time and is not for those without determination and a willingness to endure.
My experiences with psychiatry have not been particularly enlightening. That you seem to be going from one psychologist to another makes me wonder. My first experience was some sort of group therapy; the first session was dedicated to hearing about the psychologist's trip to Las Vegas, and in the second session my attention was fixed on the guy behind me who had Satan talking to him. I figured I was in the wrong group.
The second experience lasted for 4 or 5 sessions... The preliminary interview, a second session dedicated to extensive testing, the third was spent talking about the results of the testing (?????) and then they gave me a prescription. After the session I went to the drug store and asked the pharmacist to see his pharmacopaea. I didn't have the prescription filled. The fourth session was short. I told the psychologist that I had come to him in order to try to find out what was wrong with me so I could try to fix it, not to get a chemical lobotomy. I suggested he put his little pills in a dark place for safekeeping and walked out.
I stood on the sidewalk in front of the office, thinking. I still had no idea what my problem was, nor what to do, nor who to turn to. While standing there, out of nowhere, the words of Jesus came through my head: Physician, heal thyself.
I thought. And as I looked at my situation I realized that I really only had two options. I could either give in to whatever was wrong and be crushed, or I could try to heal myself. I had no idea how to go about that, but the worst that could happen was failure.
Humpty-Dumpty sat on a wall. Humpty-Dumpty had a great fall. All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty together again.......Only Humpty can do that.
Have you looked at Freud's horoscope?
In my opinion going through a course of psychoanalysis is not a very positive approach to healing oneself. The very nature of the process fixes the patient's attention on himself and the problems. The mind becomes consumed (obsession) with "the problem", and goes ever deeper into the problem. You are drawn into thinking of yourself at every moment. I see that as a very negative and counterproductive approach to self-healing. And have no doubt, the psychologist cannot heal you; only you can do that.
But then what do I know? Maybe the voice of Satan is whispering in your ear. Maybe a chemical lobotomy is just what the doctor ordered.
It may be that some bio-chemical imbalance is involved in psychiatric problems. But what if "psychiatric problems" are really spiritual problems. What if we can heal ourselves by following a spiritual path to wholeness? By spiritual I don't mean going off on some religious pilgrimage or whacko tangent. I mean adopting something like the Bhagavad Gita as a guidebook and following the instructions contained therein.
It may be that you and I are different. But we have one thing in common. We are both human beings, and an amazing thing is that all human beings share certain traits, suffer from similar life-problems. Maybe we are not quite so different as you imagine.
Some books I found helpful on my own journey toward self-healing:
The Bhagavad Gita, a Hindu scripture. In 18 short chapters it tells you everything you need to know. If some all-powerful tyrant ordered me to burn every book ever written save one, the one would be the Gita.
For example, in Chapter 2, Krishna (God) says to Arjuna, the warrior (you, or me): "Whence this lifeless dejection, Arjuna, in this hour, the hour of trial? Strong men know not despair, Arjuna, for this wins neither heaven nor earth. Fall not into degrading weakness, for this becomes not a man who is a man. Throw off this ignoble discouragement, and arise like a fire that burns all before it." So, as I suggested above, if we follow the instructions in the book, it will lead to self-healing. In this passage Krishna says to Arjuna (the following paraphrasing is my own) "Get up off your ***, roll up your sleeves and get to work. If you want to heal yourself, stop your whining and DO SOMETHING." Then the book goes on to explain what to do and how to do it.
Man's Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl. Frankl was a Viennese psychiatrist and a Jew. He was sent to Auschwitz and survived. When every single thing you have, including your name, is taken from you, you get down to the basics of what it is to be human.
Think on These Things by Jeddu Krishnamurti. Mr.K propounds two principal ideas in this book: the power and necessity of Internal Revolution, and the Mirror of Relationships. It is a question-and-answer format with lots of explanation.
Light on Life by B.K.S. Iyengar. Here is a yogi talking of life. Invaluable. While burning all of Linda Goodman's astrology books with glee, I would find a secure hiding place for this gem, and save it.
Santa Teresa de Avila, famous for her prayers, said that the most powerful of prayers is the prayer of silence, which is exactly what the Oriental form of meditation is. It takes unflagging effort over a long period of time and is not for those without determination and a willingness to endure.
My experiences with psychiatry have not been particularly enlightening. That you seem to be going from one psychologist to another makes me wonder. My first experience was some sort of group therapy; the first session was dedicated to hearing about the psychologist's trip to Las Vegas, and in the second session my attention was fixed on the guy behind me who had Satan talking to him. I figured I was in the wrong group.
The second experience lasted for 4 or 5 sessions... The preliminary interview, a second session dedicated to extensive testing, the third was spent talking about the results of the testing (?????) and then they gave me a prescription. After the session I went to the drug store and asked the pharmacist to see his pharmacopaea. I didn't have the prescription filled. The fourth session was short. I told the psychologist that I had come to him in order to try to find out what was wrong with me so I could try to fix it, not to get a chemical lobotomy. I suggested he put his little pills in a dark place for safekeeping and walked out.
I stood on the sidewalk in front of the office, thinking. I still had no idea what my problem was, nor what to do, nor who to turn to. While standing there, out of nowhere, the words of Jesus came through my head: Physician, heal thyself.
I thought. And as I looked at my situation I realized that I really only had two options. I could either give in to whatever was wrong and be crushed, or I could try to heal myself. I had no idea how to go about that, but the worst that could happen was failure.
Humpty-Dumpty sat on a wall. Humpty-Dumpty had a great fall. All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty together again.......Only Humpty can do that.
Have you looked at Freud's horoscope?
In my opinion going through a course of psychoanalysis is not a very positive approach to healing oneself. The very nature of the process fixes the patient's attention on himself and the problems. The mind becomes consumed (obsession) with "the problem", and goes ever deeper into the problem. You are drawn into thinking of yourself at every moment. I see that as a very negative and counterproductive approach to self-healing. And have no doubt, the psychologist cannot heal you; only you can do that.
But then what do I know? Maybe the voice of Satan is whispering in your ear. Maybe a chemical lobotomy is just what the doctor ordered.
It may be that some bio-chemical imbalance is involved in psychiatric problems. But what if "psychiatric problems" are really spiritual problems. What if we can heal ourselves by following a spiritual path to wholeness? By spiritual I don't mean going off on some religious pilgrimage or whacko tangent. I mean adopting something like the Bhagavad Gita as a guidebook and following the instructions contained therein.
It may be that you and I are different. But we have one thing in common. We are both human beings, and an amazing thing is that all human beings share certain traits, suffer from similar life-problems. Maybe we are not quite so different as you imagine.
Some books I found helpful on my own journey toward self-healing:
The Bhagavad Gita, a Hindu scripture. In 18 short chapters it tells you everything you need to know. If some all-powerful tyrant ordered me to burn every book ever written save one, the one would be the Gita.
For example, in Chapter 2, Krishna (God) says to Arjuna, the warrior (you, or me): "Whence this lifeless dejection, Arjuna, in this hour, the hour of trial? Strong men know not despair, Arjuna, for this wins neither heaven nor earth. Fall not into degrading weakness, for this becomes not a man who is a man. Throw off this ignoble discouragement, and arise like a fire that burns all before it." So, as I suggested above, if we follow the instructions in the book, it will lead to self-healing. In this passage Krishna says to Arjuna (the following paraphrasing is my own) "Get up off your ***, roll up your sleeves and get to work. If you want to heal yourself, stop your whining and DO SOMETHING." Then the book goes on to explain what to do and how to do it.
Man's Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl. Frankl was a Viennese psychiatrist and a Jew. He was sent to Auschwitz and survived. When every single thing you have, including your name, is taken from you, you get down to the basics of what it is to be human.
Think on These Things by Jeddu Krishnamurti. Mr.K propounds two principal ideas in this book: the power and necessity of Internal Revolution, and the Mirror of Relationships. It is a question-and-answer format with lots of explanation.
Light on Life by B.K.S. Iyengar. Here is a yogi talking of life. Invaluable. While burning all of Linda Goodman's astrology books with glee, I would find a secure hiding place for this gem, and save it.
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Blackempress
Well-known member
GB, firstly get around to writing a book. Secondly I'm curious to see your chart. You've attained a huge amount of wisdom by sitting on the rocks & well, visiting the docs.
I, partly agree with you & partly disagree being very involved with medicine in the professional line & completely spiritual naturally. Healing Thyself is not the way for every person. You know that from astrology, I have Pluto Inconjunct Chiron & though I know many forms of healing I happen to still carry my wounds. It's kind of a curse but one that benefits OTHERS. Human relationships are healing. Sexual encounters are fulfilling & 'healing'. A simple human touch releases oxytocin through the skin & endorphins in the brain which heal the body. Emotional deprivation can kill a human being-children especially which grow up crippled if they survive.
The point I'm making is that the Presence of another makes life better which is why we need the professionals & the enlightened (I don't believe just a degree to make a person apt at their field) or for that matter relationships which in the truest sense is the same life lived through another (projection). In my own experience, I've visited a few psychologists only to be kicked out the door for being over-analytical. I've earned my learning from observing life & myself more than psychology books but despite knowledge I need another to soothe me.
I've realised that when I try Healing another it heals me whether it's psychological or medical. Typical of pluto 8th. I feel good to see others better through me.
Whatever neurotransmitters dis-balanced...Psychiatry is a field I don't completely favor & agree with the Spiritual alternate to be more effective in self-fulfillment.
Freud had alot of projection... he was using others as his instrument. (I still find most psychologist to be doing the same even today).
At the Spirit Level, we really are the same. In fact I believe Humans are universally alike- Medical, psychological & astrological studies prove we need the same things in order to survive & grow & the basic core of existence is just a spirit & a body of Clay!
I, partly agree with you & partly disagree being very involved with medicine in the professional line & completely spiritual naturally. Healing Thyself is not the way for every person. You know that from astrology, I have Pluto Inconjunct Chiron & though I know many forms of healing I happen to still carry my wounds. It's kind of a curse but one that benefits OTHERS. Human relationships are healing. Sexual encounters are fulfilling & 'healing'. A simple human touch releases oxytocin through the skin & endorphins in the brain which heal the body. Emotional deprivation can kill a human being-children especially which grow up crippled if they survive.
The point I'm making is that the Presence of another makes life better which is why we need the professionals & the enlightened (I don't believe just a degree to make a person apt at their field) or for that matter relationships which in the truest sense is the same life lived through another (projection). In my own experience, I've visited a few psychologists only to be kicked out the door for being over-analytical. I've earned my learning from observing life & myself more than psychology books but despite knowledge I need another to soothe me.
I've realised that when I try Healing another it heals me whether it's psychological or medical. Typical of pluto 8th. I feel good to see others better through me.
Whatever neurotransmitters dis-balanced...Psychiatry is a field I don't completely favor & agree with the Spiritual alternate to be more effective in self-fulfillment.
Freud had alot of projection... he was using others as his instrument. (I still find most psychologist to be doing the same even today).
At the Spirit Level, we really are the same. In fact I believe Humans are universally alike- Medical, psychological & astrological studies prove we need the same things in order to survive & grow & the basic core of existence is just a spirit & a body of Clay!
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Caro
Well-known member
I have often wondered whether the tramps/vagrants/homeless/wanderers of this world have really go it. ie they do entirely leave their destiny up to the universe to provide for them. and it does(albeit in a subsistance way)
I guess people arrive in these situations(tramps) from a number of angles(no pun intended)/charts.
As to astrology it is a learning tool. like self mastery it takes many years(if ever) to benefit. you have to start with being grounded and er being grounded is providing for yourself.
(soooo back to the beginning as a tramp/vagrant you aint grounded and if you are sitting on a rock your feet arent on the ground)
I guess people arrive in these situations(tramps) from a number of angles(no pun intended)/charts.
As to astrology it is a learning tool. like self mastery it takes many years(if ever) to benefit. you have to start with being grounded and er being grounded is providing for yourself.
(soooo back to the beginning as a tramp/vagrant you aint grounded and if you are sitting on a rock your feet arent on the ground)
byjove
Account Closed
I connect with what you say, and particularly enjoyed that story about the twins.
I find that experience is at least one key factor. How I understood some of my love aspects when I started dating (and was painfully idealistic) is very different now. I feel I know better possibilites and I try harder to be conscious - trying to steer a boat heading for rocks away. I've started dating someone new and all the natal aspects shine like a beacon again. Some lessons I've learned I think and some still need a little attention.
So I would say maybe finding a different angle will come with experience? Do you feel that you've changed your views on your aspects over time?
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Claire19
Well-known member
I agree that trying to get around the natal chart and avoid issues is not the way to go. We chose to come in when we did and there are lessons to be learned and karma to be copped.
However the more aware we are of ourselves the more we can handle the challenges and become stronger. Remembering that we are not the charts, they reflect us and our path this time. There is a subtle difference.
However the more aware we are of ourselves the more we can handle the challenges and become stronger. Remembering that we are not the charts, they reflect us and our path this time. There is a subtle difference.
Claire19
Well-known member
Freud was totally sex obsessed and saw every woman's problem as sexually based. It was his projection for sure. A very limited and narrow view and quite chauvinistic. I much prefer Jung.
Blackempress
Well-known member
Stillone, it's better if we gather here for the 'love of the subject' than to seek opportunities for outlet of personal grudges.
Take what you like, discard what you don't. Keep your opinions but invalidate your ego. That's tolerance, a good base for kindness, patience & the emergence of Wisdom.
Every member is as valuable as another so let's keep the spirit of this Uranian subject with a Uranian attitude.
Bless all.
Take what you like, discard what you don't. Keep your opinions but invalidate your ego. That's tolerance, a good base for kindness, patience & the emergence of Wisdom.
Every member is as valuable as another so let's keep the spirit of this Uranian subject with a Uranian attitude.
Bless all.
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chris10
Well-known member
Stillone
First of all I’m new to astrology so please forgive me for any astro (or other)ignorance you may detect.
I became a member of these boards because I am trying to learn astro.
I have read astro books,
but I can’t compare human experience and
the astrolog information I have received on these boards to those.
Now, let me get to the point.
Someone who was really close to me was born on the same date as greybeard.
I don’t know greybeard’s time of birth, nor the TOB of the other person.
However, these two people’s lives share a lot of similarities...
the big dreams early on in life,
rootlessness, the failed marriages,
the alcohol, the surrender..(One thing I can tell you though, the person close to me
had a very kind heart,he was an unselfish, loving, caring man… as far as I can
detect from the posts, I see greybeard
has the same qualities…. You might
think that’s when alcohol isn’t in the way, I agree …)
If you check this thread I started http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55640,
you can see I can be quite judgmental myself…I have been Very judgmental all my life
to a member of my family cause I’ve always believed that it was his weakness
that destroyed our family…
I’ve tried to fight these feelings off, I think I’ve succeeded…
(Haha …. I’m trying … when I read that you, too, drink occasionally, my first thought was:
“Why can’t people have any self control ??” ...
then I got a grip of myself and thought” No, you don’t have the right to even think that”
… see? I’m trying…)
I don’t think we have the right to judge anyone's weak spots…
that’s my opinion though,
We are all entitled to free expression of opinion.
From an astro point of view, I think that each one of us is born with our personal demons.
I don’t have much astro experience, but I have noticed that a strong Neptune in the chart,
angular or Neptune hard aspects leads people to addictions (alcohol, drugs).
I am not saying that our fate is predetermined (I don’t believe that)
or we can’t do anything about that, just that, some people are more prone to these and feel more vulnerable.
Don’t forget that it takes just one moment of weakness to get addicted…
Freeing yourself is a hard and life long process.
Just my 2 cents
God bless you
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle
Plato
Matt. 7:1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged.”
John 8:7 “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.”
First of all I’m new to astrology so please forgive me for any astro (or other)ignorance you may detect.
I became a member of these boards because I am trying to learn astro.
I have read astro books,
but I can’t compare human experience and
the astrolog information I have received on these boards to those.
Now, let me get to the point.
Someone who was really close to me was born on the same date as greybeard.
I don’t know greybeard’s time of birth, nor the TOB of the other person.
However, these two people’s lives share a lot of similarities...
the big dreams early on in life,
rootlessness, the failed marriages,
the alcohol, the surrender..(One thing I can tell you though, the person close to me
had a very kind heart,he was an unselfish, loving, caring man… as far as I can
detect from the posts, I see greybeard
has the same qualities…. You might
think that’s when alcohol isn’t in the way, I agree …)
If you check this thread I started http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55640,
you can see I can be quite judgmental myself…I have been Very judgmental all my life
to a member of my family cause I’ve always believed that it was his weakness
that destroyed our family…
I’ve tried to fight these feelings off, I think I’ve succeeded…
(Haha …. I’m trying … when I read that you, too, drink occasionally, my first thought was:
“Why can’t people have any self control ??” ...
then I got a grip of myself and thought” No, you don’t have the right to even think that”
… see? I’m trying…)
I don’t think we have the right to judge anyone's weak spots…
that’s my opinion though,
We are all entitled to free expression of opinion.
From an astro point of view, I think that each one of us is born with our personal demons.
I don’t have much astro experience, but I have noticed that a strong Neptune in the chart,
angular or Neptune hard aspects leads people to addictions (alcohol, drugs).
I am not saying that our fate is predetermined (I don’t believe that)
or we can’t do anything about that, just that, some people are more prone to these and feel more vulnerable.
Don’t forget that it takes just one moment of weakness to get addicted…
Freeing yourself is a hard and life long process.
Just my 2 cents
God bless you
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle
Plato
Matt. 7:1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged.”
John 8:7 “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.”
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chris10
Well-known member
Come on, lighten up
don't be so touchy ...
I think we are all here to learn ...
this is no contest ... and people can't agree on everything, these are just opinions...
you were just in a bad mood just like all of us are a lot of times in our lives
cheer up
Freud's chart is at http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cg...ank chart of Sigmund Freud born on 6 May 1856
Freud's chart is a "Bucket" type. Mars, the only planet retrograde in the chart, is solitaire East and of course is the Handle planet of the Bucket pattern. This position of Mars in the chart gives him preeminence in the life; everything else flows through Mars -- he carries the weight. Mars has an extreme right-hand (clockwise) leaning from the center of gravity of the body of the bucket (located at 8 Taurus 42, very close to the Descendant -- it is the midpoint of Saturn/Neptune); [he will most likely express his unique potentials in a positive manner, will bring forward his "message", and makes vigorous demands for coopertion from others. He is quite active and willing to experiment with life and makes changes as needed.] There is exceptional single-mindedness of purpose shown here. The cross-sign opposition to Jupiter gives the chart pattern a rather bowl-like quality, due to this leaning of Mars. Mars and Venus are in mutual reception, with both in detriment, and between them rule the horizon. Venus rules the Sun, and the stellium in Taurus clustered around the 7th angle. Sun is besieged, trapped between Pluto and Uranus. The body of the bucket is contained by two squares (Jupiter-Saturn and Moon-Neptune) in Common signs. Jupiter and Neptune, holding the 5th cusp, are independent of the rest of the planets (by rulership), with the rest being under the dominion of the Mars-Venus reception.
With this predominant retrograde Mars and a Scorpio Ascendant, and with Moon and Saturn in the Eighth (and Saturn at the apex of a cross-sign T-square), plus Venus conjunct Pluto (again cross-sign)...[the Mars-Jupiter opposition is also cross-sign]...I think it is more than safe to say there are "deep sexual issues" in this chart.
Look at all those cross-sign aspects. This is an unusual situation, and therefore must be highly significant. No book will interpret this for you. You must do that yourself. How about this approach: I will "read" what Saturn says, of itself, then "read" Mars, of itself, then apply the meaning of a square aspect to the two meanings and see what I get... Remember that Saturn is at the apex of a T-square (thus the focalized energy) and that the two planets are in mutual application (Saturn moves forward while Mars, who is retrograde, returns to meet him. Where does perfection of the aspect [by progression] occur, in Cardinal or in Common signs?).
Freud's chart is a "Bucket" type. Mars, the only planet retrograde in the chart, is solitaire East and of course is the Handle planet of the Bucket pattern. This position of Mars in the chart gives him preeminence in the life; everything else flows through Mars -- he carries the weight. Mars has an extreme right-hand (clockwise) leaning from the center of gravity of the body of the bucket (located at 8 Taurus 42, very close to the Descendant -- it is the midpoint of Saturn/Neptune); [he will most likely express his unique potentials in a positive manner, will bring forward his "message", and makes vigorous demands for coopertion from others. He is quite active and willing to experiment with life and makes changes as needed.] There is exceptional single-mindedness of purpose shown here. The cross-sign opposition to Jupiter gives the chart pattern a rather bowl-like quality, due to this leaning of Mars. Mars and Venus are in mutual reception, with both in detriment, and between them rule the horizon. Venus rules the Sun, and the stellium in Taurus clustered around the 7th angle. Sun is besieged, trapped between Pluto and Uranus. The body of the bucket is contained by two squares (Jupiter-Saturn and Moon-Neptune) in Common signs. Jupiter and Neptune, holding the 5th cusp, are independent of the rest of the planets (by rulership), with the rest being under the dominion of the Mars-Venus reception.
With this predominant retrograde Mars and a Scorpio Ascendant, and with Moon and Saturn in the Eighth (and Saturn at the apex of a cross-sign T-square), plus Venus conjunct Pluto (again cross-sign)...[the Mars-Jupiter opposition is also cross-sign]...I think it is more than safe to say there are "deep sexual issues" in this chart.
Look at all those cross-sign aspects. This is an unusual situation, and therefore must be highly significant. No book will interpret this for you. You must do that yourself. How about this approach: I will "read" what Saturn says, of itself, then "read" Mars, of itself, then apply the meaning of a square aspect to the two meanings and see what I get... Remember that Saturn is at the apex of a T-square (thus the focalized energy) and that the two planets are in mutual application (Saturn moves forward while Mars, who is retrograde, returns to meet him. Where does perfection of the aspect [by progression] occur, in Cardinal or in Common signs?).
I guess the link to Freud's chart didn't work. Try this:
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Freud,_Sigmund
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Freud,_Sigmund