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  #1  
Unread 03-03-2018, 05:14 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Indicators of Fame

Wondering if anyone's come across any RELIABLE indications for becoming famous in a Natal-chart. Being able to predict it as a probability, just by reading the Chart. One advantage is, there are so many Charts of famous people to look at and compare!

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Unread 03-03-2018, 08:57 AM
katydid katydid is online now
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Re: Indicators of Fame

intersting article about fame:

"About 10 years ago, I got curious about what could indicate fame predictively, so I studied charts of celebrities (about 100) and what aspects they had occurring around the time they first became famous. Thereís no silver bullet for it, but I did find that pretty much across the board, almost every person had a major outer planet transit by Uranus, Neptune, or to a lesser extent, Pluto, occurring at the time they became famous.

The aspect and the planet involved tend to show the nature of how the person became famous or how they were perceived. Conjunctions, squares, and oppositions by Uranus or Pluto seem more common when the fame is thrust upon you, or youíre not comfortable with it, at least initially. Sextiles and trines made the transition easier. Neptune aspects seemed to play a role in the perception, their image, and in particular, the hard aspects (conjunct, square, opposite) often showed someone who has an image projected on to them, and they arenít very happy about it as people see them how they want to see them and not as they actually are. Oddly, I remember Neptune playing a big role in the massive fame that Kristin Stewart, Robert Pattinson, and Taylor Lautner attained with the Twilight series. Charts below: ..."



snipped for space.........



While Neptune rules music, itís also beneficial for actors because they have to take on a role, pretending to be something they arenít, so the filmmakers lucked out with the main actors having major Neptune transits to their Suns at the same time.

Uranus is the natural ruler of fame, and at that same time, Kristin had Uranus trine her Pluto (ruler of her 6th house of work), Taylor had Uranus sextile his Neptune (more Neptune), and Robert had Uranus conjunct his Jupiter and sextile his Mars. Pluto, at the end of Sagittarius, was sextile Taylorís 6th house cusp and trine Robertís north node, but had far less impact than Uranus and Neptune.

In all of the charts I looked at, Pluto did seem to be the least indicative of fame predictively; Neptune and Uranus seem to be stronger. So, if youíre an aspiring musician or actor looking to make it big, pay close attention to the outer planets in transit.



http://www.thedarkpixieastrology.com...rology-of-fame

One thing I have noticed with charts of people who enjoy their fame or celebrity---it seems they often have the Sun and some personals at the top of the chart, as opposed to the IC area.
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  #3  
Unread 03-03-2018, 12:37 PM
muchacho muchacho is offline
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Re: Indicators of Fame

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Wondering if anyone's come across any RELIABLE indications for becoming famous in a Natal-chart. Being able to predict it as a probability, just by reading the Chart. One advantage is, there are so many Charts of famous people to look at and compare!
Look at the chart ruler, 10th house and 10th lord and relationships between those. In vedic astrology they have dozens of yogas (planetary combinations) that indicate fame.
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Unread 03-03-2018, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muchacho View Post
Look at the chart ruler, 10th house and 10th lord and relationships between those. In vedic astrology they have dozens of yogas (planetary combinations) that indicate fame.
How is the Chart--ruler determined in the Vedic system?
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Unread 03-04-2018, 04:36 PM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Indicators of Fame

Looks like it's the ruler of the Ascendant-Sign, similar to Tropical. Very strong if it's domiciled.
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Unread 03-05-2018, 04:31 AM
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Re: Indicators of Fame

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
How is the Chart--ruler determined in the Vedic system?
Usually the same way as in western astrology, i.e. ruler of 1st house (sign). It's called Lagnesh, i.e. ruler of Lagna (ASC). Another version (and probably more in line with the classics) is to use the Nakshatra lord of Lagna (ASC), or even better the pada (quarter) ruler. Which essentially is the 1st house ruler in the D-9 chart (Navamsa).
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Unread 03-05-2018, 01:05 PM
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Re: Indicators of Fame

Just as an example how this works in vedic astrology, one of the most popular yogas that indicate 'enduring fame' is Gajakesari Yoga. The requirements are as follows:

1) Jupiter in a kendra (angle) from Moon or Lagna (ASC)
2) Jupiter in good condition, i.e. not debilitated, not combust, not in an enemy's sign

Gives best results when:

1) Jupiter is with a benefic or aspected by a benefic
2) both planets are in angular houses from Lagna (ASC)
3) one or both planets rule angular or trine houses

This Yoga will be activated during Moon or Jupiter Mahadasha (main period).

So not everyone who has their Jupiter in an angle from Moon or ASC will be famous. The planets require sufficient strength and should be supported by benefics. And even if that is the case, it is still not certain that one will experience fame because unless the planets are activated nothing will happen at all despite the enormous potential. Some people actually never experience their Moon or Jupiter Mahadasha (main period) or they are either too young or too old when the planets are activated.
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  #8  
Unread 03-05-2018, 02:57 PM
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Re: Indicators of Fame

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Wondering if anyone's come across any RELIABLE indications for becoming famous in a Natal-chart. Being able to predict it as a probability, just by reading the Chart. One advantage is, there are so many Charts of famous people to look at and compare!
Valens quotes Nechepso saying ''Observing the positions of the sun and moon at conjunction and their separations after full moon, with respect to the angles and the signs following them, on which the whole <forecast> depends.'' - Riley translation

By that, I think he means the Lights, the Syzygy and the Lot of Fortune. (Notice also whole sign houses.)

One indicator for fame in Valens and Hephaistio is the preceding New or Full Moon and its ruler angular (both say, especially I and X).

One will definitely live long enough to become successful and distinguished if he has the Predominator, Lot and Syzygy and their rulers operative and predominantly well placed, especially angular.

The Lights operative, well-placed and configured with operative good stars, close conjunctions, trines, squares and oppositions between the benefics and the Lights, good stars at the Asc, Mc, Dsc or Ic degree, bright stars co-rising etc. can ''reinforce'' and magnify the previous statement if true.

If poorly placed malefics predominate action, the person will be infamous. In any case, one needs to examine the area of occupation with the Master of the Nativity (Ruler of the Predominator) and X (and somewhat the Lot). I am giving a few indications, because usually two stars predominate action.

P. S. Brad Pitt has Venus and Moon conjunction, which are harmonious in respect to rank and wealth, but also indicate unsteady friendships and affairs, Valens says that the speed of those stars make for unsteady things*. Btw, the Moon actually occults Venus at his nativity, at least topocentric.

*''Venus and the moon are good with respect to rank, acquisitions, and the inception of business, but they are unsteady with respect to living together, friendships, and marriage, bringing rivalry and hostility, as well as ill-treatment and upset from relatives and friends. Likewise with respect to children and slaves, these stars are not good: they cause possessions to be fleeting and bring mental anguish.'' - translation by Riley

Last edited by petosiris; 03-05-2018 at 03:21 PM.
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Unread 03-05-2018, 06:44 PM
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Re: Indicators of Fame

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

Valens quotes Nechepso saying ''Observing the positions of the sun and moon at conjunction and their separations after full moon, with respect to the angles and the signs following them, on which the whole <forecast> depends.'' - Riley translation

By that, I think he means the Lights, the Syzygy and the Lot of Fortune. (Notice also whole sign houses.)

One indicator for fame in Valens and Hephaistio is the preceding New or Full Moon and its ruler angular (both say, especially I and X).

One will definitely live long enough to become successful and distinguished if he has the Predominator, Lot and Syzygy and their rulers operative and predominantly well placed, especially angular.

The Lights operative, well-placed and configured with operative good stars, close conjunctions, trines, squares and oppositions between the benefics and the Lights, good stars at the Asc, Mc, Dsc or Ic degree, bright stars co-rising etc. can ''reinforce'' and magnify the previous statement if true.

If poorly placed malefics predominate action, the person will be infamous. In any case, one needs to examine the area of occupation with the Master of the Nativity (Ruler of the Predominator) and X (and somewhat the Lot). I am giving a few indications, because usually two stars predominate action.

P. S. Brad Pitt has Venus and Moon conjunction, which are harmonious in respect to rank and wealth, but also indicate unsteady friendships and affairs, Valens says that the speed of those stars make for unsteady things*. Btw, the Moon actually occults Venus at his nativity, at least topocentric.

*''Venus and the moon are good with respect to rank, acquisitions, and the inception of business, but they are unsteady with respect to living together, friendships, and marriage, bringing rivalry and hostility, as well as ill-treatment and upset from relatives and friends. Likewise with respect to children and slaves, these stars are not good: they cause possessions to be fleeting and bring mental anguish.'' - translation by Riley
ex-member Konrad who closed his account on our forum
has some dialogue with another of our members Marius Cojoc on this topic
with reference to Bob Dylan
however not on our forum
but over on skyscript a
t http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9579
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Unread 03-07-2018, 08:15 AM
ICEYOU28 ICEYOU28 is offline
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Re: Indicators of Fame

Hi, do I have a good chance at being famous?
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Unread 03-07-2018, 11:38 AM
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Re: Indicators of Fame

Quote:
Originally Posted by ICEYOU28 View Post
Hi, do I have a good chance at being famous?
Predominator - angular, but unconfigured with benefics, ruler is malefic and operative, configured with the two benefics and opposed by the other malefic
Lot of Fortune - inoperative, unconfigured with benefics, ruler is angular with weak hexagons from the benefics
Syzygy - inoperative, ruler is operative
Sun - inoperative, unconfigured with benefics, ruler is operative

compared to Brad Pitt:
Predominator - operative, closely present with Venus and square with Jupiter, present with Mars, ruled by Jupiter
Lot of Fortune - inoperative, squared by Saturn (at least in his domicile and bound), ruler is operative and benefic
Syzygy - angular, ruler is operative and well placed
Sun - operative, present or configured with the benefics and Mars
Also has a stellium that is ruled by Jupiter in its domicile and bound. Also has the bright star Antares exactly at the horizon (paranatellonta).
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Unread 03-07-2018, 12:18 PM
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Re: Indicators of Fame



Petosiris the following post by OMNISPHERICUS
uses MEDIEVAL techniques regarding delineation of FAME
which OMNISPHERICUS also used to delineate Brad Pitts chart


would be interesting to have your HELLENISTIC approach delineation
as well as your opinion of how it contrasts with the MEDIEVAL methodology


Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post




This is a chart of a very eminent and well known person in his profession.
I was asked not to reveal the person so I will keep the promise I made of not doing so.

Lets look for the promise in this chart regarded for eminence and success.

Fortuna in 4th sign (angular) - its great.
Ruler of the Fortuna is in the 11th from Fortuna (Jupiter).
Benefic (Venus) is with the Fortuna.
All these 3 testimonies are great so far.

Lot of Spirit in the 10th sign in 1Gemini with the ruler Mercury in the 5th from the Spirit and the 11th (place of acquisitions according to Valens) from Fortuna.
Lot of Exaltation in Cancer - the 11th sign from the Ascendant with the ruler Moon in its own domicile.

2 of the 3 triplicity rulers of the Light of the Chart (Moon) are in very good places: Moon in 11th and Venus in 4th.
Mars being the first ruler is cadent, showing the first third of life most difficult regarding the 3 rulers.

Pars Hyleg is in 7Sag, showing the Life purpose. The archer is known for its seeking for wisdom. This person is eminent in the scientific fields.
Another interesting point is that the Part of Understanding and wisdom is in 3 Virgo, so in the first Zodion.
Mercury is ruler of the Spirit in 10th and of the Part of Understanding and Wisdom in 1st. Mercury is with Jupiter (the ruler of the Fortuna).
And in fact, the Light of the Chart is applying to that Mercury in 2nd showing that the income (money, wealth) in this persons life would come from Science, Understanding and Wisdom, using words/letters/calculation and all the sorts communication with words and language (Mercury).
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Unread 03-07-2018, 12:36 PM
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Re: Indicators of Fame

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post


Petosiris the following post by OMNISPHERICUS
uses MEDIEVAL techniques regarding delineation of FAME
which OMNISPHERICUS also used to delineate Brad Pitts chart


would be interesting to have your HELLENISTIC approach delineation
as well as your opinion of how it contrasts with the MEDIEVAL methodology
The biggest difference is I do not use Medieval methods like almutens. I do not like triplicity rulers either (which come from Hellenism). The Lights, Syzygy and Lot of Fortune are known as the places of life (according to Umar) and is my opinion that they show vitality as well as eminence in the same way that the Rising Sign is the most important place in the chart. It is my opinion that this is the primary function of the Luminaries in the chart.

I use angularity and conceptualization by Nechepso and Petosiris which sees the III, VI, IX and XII as inoperative places and therefore worse than the II and VIII, which in mid-Hellenism became associated with hades and death (and the IX became operative and good). This stuck in the medieval tradition.

Following the earliest authors like Nechepso and Valens also does not bring problem related to using techniques by tropicalists in a sidereal zodiac.
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Unread 03-07-2018, 12:40 PM
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Re: Indicators of Fame

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

The biggest difference is I do not use Medieval methods like almutens. I do not like triplicity rulers either (which come from Hellenism). The Lights, Syzygy and Lot of Fortune are known as the places of life (according to Umar) and is my opinion that they show vitality as well as eminence in the same way that the Rising Sign is the most important place in the chart. It is my opinion that this is the primary function of the Luminaries in the chart.

I use angularity and conceptualization by Nechepso and Petosiris which sees the III, VI, IX and XII as inoperative places and therefore worse than the II and VIII, which in mid-Hellenism became associated with hades and death (and the IX became operative and good). This stuck in the medieval tradition.

Following the earliest authors like Nechepso and Valens also does not bring problem related to using techniques by tropicalists in a sidereal zodiac.
also you do not use Placidus
so using WHOLE SIGNS would make a difference regarding house location
and whether in an inoperative place or not
chart also would be affected by whether SIDEREAL or TROPICAL
because for the following chart sidereal places MARS in 1st House above horizon
whereas Tropical places MARS in 12th
I mention MARS because of its conjunction to Fixed Star REGULUS "the King Maker"
which is associated with fame
but OMNISPHERICUS did not take factor in Fixed Star effects in this case









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Unread 03-07-2018, 01:52 PM
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Re: Indicators of Fame

Correct, I use whole signs for both topics and angularity/strength. And that produces quite different results between tropical and sidereal zodiacs whenever a planet or the ASC is between 24 and 30 degrees. My sentence at the end was not meant to cause a debate, just to point that astrology is partly empirical and that will have an effect on the results you get with different workframes.

This is why I would be very skeptical of Tropical Jyotish astrologer claiming that the Shastras suddenly become working with tropical or of a horary siderealist (is there such?) claiming the same with Christian Astrology. The only exception to this rule would be someone like Valens (a siderealist), Ptolemy (a tropicalist), Hephaistio (tropicalist too) and people around that time when the zodiacs coincided to some extent. (And this is why I focus mostly on that tradition.)

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Unread 03-07-2018, 08:53 PM
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Re: Indicators of Fame

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Predominator - angular, but unconfigured with benefics, ruler is malefic and operative, configured with the two benefics and opposed by the other malefic
Lot of Fortune - inoperative, unconfigured with benefics, ruler is angular with weak hexagons from the benefics
Syzygy - inoperative, ruler is operative
Sun - inoperative, unconfigured with benefics, ruler is operative

compared to Brad Pitt:
Predominator - operative, closely present with Venus and square with Jupiter, present with Mars, ruled by Jupiter
Lot of Fortune - inoperative, squared by Saturn (at least in his domicile and bound), ruler is operative and benefic
Syzygy - angular, ruler is operative and well placed
Sun - operative, present or configured with the benefics and Mars
Also has a stellium that is ruled by Jupiter in its domicile and bound. Also has the bright star Antares exactly at the horizon (paranatellonta).
Is that a yes? Sorry I am only a novice.
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Unread 03-07-2018, 09:51 PM
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Re: Indicators of Fame

Quote:
Originally Posted by ICEYOU28 View Post

Is that a yes? Sorry I am only a novice.

Time to learn then - ours is an astrological learning forum

in any event
compare your fame with the fame of Brad Pitt
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Unread 07-20-2019, 04:20 PM
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Re: Indicators of Fame

Sun in mars leo in mars - seen a lot of this in celebs
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Unread 07-22-2019, 07:28 AM
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Re: Indicators of Fame

Will I be famous?

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Unread 07-22-2019, 07:38 AM
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Re: Indicators of Fame

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

Wondering if anyone's come across any RELIABLE indications for becoming famous in a Natal-chart.
Being able to predict it as a probability, just by reading the Chart.
One advantage is, there are so many Charts of famous people to look at
and compare!

there are multiple examples on the RANK OF FAME THREAD DISCUSSION
at https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...ad.php?t=49203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post

There are many different methods calculating the Rank of Fame in someones chart.

1. First we look at the Sun, if it is in 10th or 11th house. In lasser degree fame is indicated also by Sun being in 1st, 4th and 7th.
Sun in aspect to the MC brings fame.
Sun in succedent house and especially if it is aspecting the MC can brings fame.

This is the general indicator.
It doesn't necessarily means that if you have Sun in 10th, you will be famous.
Sun is analogous for Fame, so there fore we first start examining the Sun
.


The Sun in 5th cuts the fame in half (except when it is in 5th).
Sun in 5th indicates success in arts and entertainment fields.

Sun's aspects are very important. Afflicted Sun by some hard aspect with strong malefic may bring infamy.

Sun's dispositor and its relationship to the Sun is also very important. The dispositor will show the origin of the fame of the native.

The dispositor of MC and its Almuten as well the aspects to the MC, will show for what will the native gain fame, because MC represents the native's actions.

Ok, lest try this first rule of examining the rank of fame with some practical example.





Here's the chart of Brad Pit.
We can see that the Sun is angular on the AC.
This is the first indication of success.
The Sun in Sag has honor as triplicity ruler.
The ruler of Sun (its dispositor), also its Almuten is the Strong Jupiter in 4th - angular, in a sign in which is having honor of triplicity.
Divisor of the Sun (Term ruler) is Venus which makes trine to the MC with the Moon - the native will be noticed by Women.


To add:
Sun is ruler of the Lot of Fame in 28Leo.
Moon (aspecting trine to MC with Venus) is ruler of the Lot of Success in Cancer.
The Sun is not impeded by bad aspect of Malefic.
It is in Trine relationship with Jupiter and in mutual reception (Sun by exaltation in Aries).
Sun is in aspect to MC. The thing that the aspect is square does not impede the rank of fame.


As we can see, the chart of Brad Pit is having many testimonies
of this first rule of the Rank of Fame.
We will examine the other methods in my next post.

by the way
unless the natal chart is reliably timed
i.e.
unless time of birth is reliable

then
only then is it possible to reliably delineate

there are multiple techniques
to check and verify time of birth
discussion at https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...t=51626&page=6
Quote:
Originally Posted by helike13 View Post


Will I be famous?

the above posted delineation is a good guideline to follow
as you work on your chart to determine this question
Quote:
Originally Posted by helike13 View Post

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Unread 07-22-2019, 01:00 PM
helike13 helike13 is offline
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Re: Indicators of Fame

Actually my Sun is very prominent in my chart by aspect. Since there is a Yod pointing towards it. But on the other hand..... 12th house
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Unread 07-22-2019, 01:46 PM
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Lightbulb Re: Indicators of Fame

What is fame anyway? Does it mean a Youtuber with a channel that attracts a lot of nerdy people? A pop idol that teens talk about and lives in nostalgic memory of former teens? A writer whose works live on for decades? A Nobel winning scientist no one knows about until the day of the award? A soldier who is only remember for one heroic act before he died? There are just so many ways we can think of fame. By definition, a famous person is someone who is widely known, but the way they are known is what needs further clarification, especially when more people are trying to become Kim Kardashian and succeed.



I used to read about a theory that a lot of planets above the horizon can indicate fame, but I can see some famous historical people with almost all planets at the bottom of their charts. Some really famous people don't have any Leo/5H personal placements. Some, like Kurk Corbain, even have a high concentration in Pisces. So yeah, with no fixed definition of fame, the statistic is all over the place.


IMHO, fame is more of a "stroke of luck", and it has less to do with the natal chart itself, but more to do with the specific transit that trigger the "fame" moment. The natal chart may indicate someone's willingness to work for fame. And when they finally meet their lucky transit, the fame comes. It's pretty much a "preparation meets opportunity" thing.
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Last edited by Gemini888; 07-22-2019 at 02:00 PM.
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Unread 07-22-2019, 01:47 PM
Gemini888 Gemini888 is offline
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Re: Indicators of Fame

Quote:
Originally Posted by helike13 View Post
Will I be famous?

Before I answer your question, may I ask if you are doing anything worthwhile?
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