MBTI and Astrology

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neonwilderness

Member
I just asked one about Astrology and Tarot, but I have another question.
I've seen some things connecting astrology with thinking, feeling, intuition, and sensing. I know MBTI isn't exactly Jung's original theory and I don't know much about his original theory, just MBTI, so keep that in mind.

My Astrological sign is Virgo, I was born on September 9th. Honestly, I have never related at all to any descriptions of the Virgo personality that I've read, but I've also never looked deeply into it at all. My MBTI type is INFP and that's what I wanted to ask about. I read that Earth corresponds with Sensation and I think Virgo is an Earth type, but I'm definitely an intuitive and not a sensing type. Also I figure Virgo would be a judging type which I am not. So, I don't know if my question is clear but I'm just wondering what the connection really is between these personality types and the personalities of the Astrological signs especially since I've never related to anything about Virgo that I've seen aside from being quiet/reserved and interested in self-analysis and development. Thank you for reading this and especially if you can help me! :)
 
quiet659

quiet659

Active member
neonwilderness said:
I just asked one about Astrology and Tarot, but I have another question.
I've seen some things connecting astrology with thinking, feeling, intuition, and sensing. I know MBTI isn't exactly Jung's original theory and I don't know much about his original theory, just MBTI, so keep that in mind.

My Astrological sign is Virgo, I was born on September 9th. Honestly, I have never related at all to any descriptions of the Virgo personality that I've read, but I've also never looked deeply into it at all. My MBTI type is INFP and that's what I wanted to ask about. I read that Earth corresponds with Sensation and I think Virgo is an Earth type, but I'm definitely an intuitive and not a sensing type. Also I figure Virgo would be a judging type which I am not. So, I don't know if my question is clear but I'm just wondering what the connection really is between these personality types and the personalities of the Astrological signs especially since I've never related to anything about Virgo that I've seen aside from being quiet/reserved and interested in self-analysis and development. Thank you for reading this and especially if you can help me! :)
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My personality used to be INFP, but now it is INFJ. I'm a Aquarius. Do you know your moon sign or mars or Venus sign? If you don't maybe you should look it up. I have.

Aquarius sun
Pisces moon
Pisces Mecury
Pisces Venus
and Mars and Scorpio

So I'm really emotional but at the same time very rational and detached.
 
Z

Zarathu

Account Closed
There is a connection. I used to use the MBTI and the child's version, the Murphy Meisgier, professionally.

While I use the information of the Myers Briggs(I actually prefer David Keirsey's interpretations better than the MB ladies) daily to help me identify the actions of people, and while the MBTI is the most researched psychological self reporting test on the planet, astrology is way way more extensive and leaves the MBTI in the dust wallowing along at about 5 mph, and passing by at 230 mph.

Because astrology is so much more complicated, the MBTI doesn't fit well into the scheme represented by astrology, IMO. Astrology is the blueprint of your entire life. MBTI is just a narrow way to define some specific aspects of your thinking process. And in many ways Cognitive Astrology(the second of the Seven Quotients of Astrology---see my website below in the signature) is way way more informational.

My opinion, of course.
 
Flapjacks

Flapjacks

Well-known member
Zarathu said:
Because astrology is so much more complicated, the MBTI doesn't fit well into the scheme represented by astrology, IMO. Astrology is the blueprint of your entire life. MBTI is just a narrow way to define some specific aspects of your thinking process. And in many ways Cognitive Astrology(the second of the Seven Quotients of Astrology---see my website below in the signature) is way way more informational.

My opinion, of course.
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Do you think it would be fruitful to correlate MBTI to Mercury in a chart?
 
miquar

miquar

Well-known member
I don't know much about MB or the modified versions of it that Zarathu has worked with, but as far as I am aware MB is based on the Jungian types, which do fit hand in glove with the astrological elements. Astrology can be very complicated, but a simple look at the element balance of a chart can give a person a lot of useful information. I believe that this is often the most important and fundamental information which the chart can give, helping the native to get her or his bearings in relation to the four compass points of human consciousness. Both astrology and human nature can express simplicity and complexity at the same time.

It is worth pointing out that to have the Sun in an element doesn't mean that we identify readily with that element, or that our superior function of consciousness (or even the auxiliary function) corresponds to the Sun's element. Also, the judging elements are air and water (thinking and feeling), while the perceiving elements are fire and earth (intuition and sensation).
 
athenian200

athenian200

Well-known member
I've studied Jung extensively, and I know that he derived a lot of his ideas from mythology, astrology, and alchemy... subjects that were considered taboo at the time.

My MBTI type is INFJ, but my Sun is in Aries. However, my Ascendant is Gemini and my Mercury is in Pisces.

I suspect that the Ascendant and condition of its ruler have a huge impact on your MBTI type. Chances are that if the ruler is in an Air Sign, you'll have an N in your type, in a Water sign it will produce an F, in a Fire sign a T, and in an Earth sign an S.

After that, you probably have to analyze the whole chart. For instance, Introverts will have a lot of planets below the horizon, Extraverts will have a lot of planets above the horizon. Judging types will tend to have more planets in Cardinal or Fixed signs, while Perceivers may tend to have more in Mutable signs. Note that Virgo and Aries tend to be the hardest to peg this way, though... because Aries might see themselves as P, while Virgo may see themselves as J.

Finally, you want to count up the number of elements in the chart for the remaining letter. If you're missing N/S, check to see if they have more major influences (Midheaven, Sun, Moon, etc) in Air or Earth signs. If you're missing T/F, check to see if they have more influences in Fire or Water signs.

This isn't foolproof, of course... but it can give you a good general idea of their MBTI. I find that it's often right, and usually only off by one letter. And that's pretty good, seeing that Ego often distorts the type and even carefully formulated tests often give different results.

I know it's a clumsy hack, but I can't think of a better approach to "dither" an Astrology chart so that it will fit into the four boxes.
 
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Zarathu

Account Closed
athenian200 said:
I know it's a clumsy hack, but I can't think of a better approach to "dither" an Astrology chart so that it will fit into the four boxes.
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I think they have two different roles and to try to shoe horn either into the framework of the other was not useful, FOR ME. Actually I used to own a 300 page book where this was done. Its was in the end rather contrived and I apparently threw it away since it doesn't seem to be in my library at the moment.
 
N

neonwilderness

Member
athenian200 said:
I've studied Jung extensively, and I know that he derived a lot of his ideas from mythology, astrology, and alchemy... subjects that were considered taboo at the time.

My MBTI type is INFJ, but my Sun is in Aries. However, my Ascendant is Gemini and my Mercury is in Pisces.

I suspect that the Ascendant and condition of its ruler have a huge impact on your MBTI type. Chances are that if the ruler is in an Air Sign, you'll have an N in your type, in a Water sign it will produce an F, in a Fire sign a T, and in an Earth sign an S.

After that, you probably have to analyze the whole chart. For instance, Introverts will have a lot of planets below the horizon, Extraverts will have a lot of planets above the horizon. Judging types will tend to have more planets in Cardinal or Fixed signs, while Perceivers may tend to have more in Mutable signs. Note that Virgo and Aries tend to be the hardest to peg this way, though... because Aries might see themselves as P, while Virgo may see themselves as J.

Finally, you want to count up the number of elements in the chart for the remaining letter. If you're missing N/S, check to see if they have more major influences (Midheaven, Sun, Moon, etc) in Air or Earth signs. If you're missing T/F, check to see if they have more influences in Fire or Water signs.

This isn't foolproof, of course... but it can give you a good general idea of their MBTI. I find that it's often right, and usually only off by one letter. And that's pretty good, seeing that Ego often distorts the type and even carefully formulated tests often give different results.

I know it's a clumsy hack, but I can't think of a better approach to "dither" an Astrology chart so that it will fit into the four boxes.
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Thanks for your answer! Does seem like Virgo would match judging better than perceiving, but I guess it fits me better that way at least :) Stereotypical Virgo sounds ISTJ to me. What do you think could make a Virgo end up an intuitive type? The whole pragmatic structured thing is a big part of why I don't relate to any descriptions of Virgo that I read.
 
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neonwilderness

Member
quiet659 said:
My personality used to be INFP, but now it is INFJ. I'm a Aquarius. Do you know your moon sign or mars or Venus sign? If you don't maybe you should look it up. I have.

Aquarius sun
Pisces moon
Pisces Mecury
Pisces Venus
and Mars and Scorpio

So I'm really emotional but at the same time very rational and detached.
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Detachment for me fits more with Enneagram type 5 than with judging in MBTI(although judging doesn't have as much to do with detachment as thinking. The only thing MBTI related that could explain detachment in an INFJ is introversion) The main reason I know I'm not INFJ is that I definitely use Fi and Ne, not Ni and Fe.
Here's my chart:
 

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athenian200

athenian200

Well-known member
neonwilderness said:
Thanks for your answer! Does seem like Virgo would match judging better than perceiving, but I guess it fits me better that way at least :) Stereotypical Virgo sounds ISTJ to me. What do you think could make a Virgo end up an intuitive type? The whole pragmatic structured thing is a big part of why I don't relate to any descriptions of Virgo that I read.
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You have Venus, Mars, and the Moon in Air signs. That might be enough to move you towards Intuition over Sensing.

I don't know what your Ascendant is because you have no birth time, but that would have a huge impact as well. In some people's opinion, the Ascendant is more important than the Sun. Sun sign is really only one aspect of your personality.

I often find that people are the shadow type of their Sun sign, and thus have them in their function stack. For instance, you're a Virgo sun INFP, and at least three other Virgo suns I know are INFP. All INFPs have tertiary Si and inferior Te... the functions you associate with Virgo.

In other words, the implication/pattern I'm noticing is that the Sun sign represents traits you will need to develop rather than the way you already are.
 
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neonwilderness

Member
athenian200 said:
You have Venus, Mars, and the Moon in Air signs. That might be enough to move you towards Intuition over Sensing.

I don't know what your Ascendant is because you have no birth time, but that would have a huge impact as well. In some people's opinion, the Ascendant is more important than the Sun. Sun sign is really only one aspect of your personality.

I often find that people are the shadow type of their Sun sign, and thus have them in their function stack. For instance, you're a Virgo sun INFP, and at least three other Virgo suns I know are INFP. All INFPs have tertiary Si and inferior Te... the functions you associate with Virgo.

In other words, the implication/pattern I'm noticing is that the Sun sign represents traits you will need to develop rather than the way you already are.
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I see! That makes sense, thank you :)
 
T

thelivingsky

Well-known member
Can you post your chart? the reason you may not relate to the descriptions of Virgo may be that you have many other conflicting influence in your chart. I have found that I can look at most charts and predict where they would score on the MB and if they woul dbe one who scores in the middle on some scales. Of course those with charts that are clearly heavy in one element would be the easiest to predict.

Being really dominant or deficient in any element correlates strongly with certain personality pre-dispositions . I, for instance, am very heavy in Fire element and I have the hardest time relating to those who are very heavy in Earth. I scored very hign on th N scale on the MB too. I also score in the middle on the thinking/feeling scale or I will score differntly depending on the day I take the test.

Stephen Arroyo and Liz Greene have written about the problems that appear when on e is very heavy or very deficient in one element. The have 2 books that touch on this; Astrology, Psychology and the Four Elements and New Insight in Modern Astrology.
 
Z

Zarathu

Account Closed
thelivingsky said:
Interesting! I also am cardinal, mutable, fire emphasis and I score INTJ or INFJ : all but one of my planets is below the horizon.
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Neonwilderness joined here in July and visited last in late August. I don't think s/he's coming back to post his/her chart. Probably something fun to do in the summer, and then went back to school. There is no email address so you can't locate them except here.
 
Osamenor

Osamenor

Staff member
athenian200 said:
I suspect that the Ascendant and condition of its ruler have a huge impact on your MBTI type. Chances are that if the ruler is in an Air Sign, you'll have an N in your type, in a Water sign it will produce an F, in a Fire sign a T, and in an Earth sign an S.
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In my case, that holds true. I've consistently tested as an INFP on the MBTI, and I have Capricorn rising and Saturn in Cancer. However, the rest does not....

athenian200 said:
After that, you probably have to analyze the whole chart. For instance, Introverts will have a lot of planets below the horizon, Extraverts will have a lot of planets above the horizon.
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That's not true at all. The difference between upper and lower hemispheres is that people with the majority of their planets above the horizon tend to need their major life passages publicly acknowledged in some way, while to people with the majority of their planets below the horizon, it doesn't matter at all whether their passages are visible or not. Case in point: when I graduated from high school, I felt it was important to walk across the stage and get my diploma. When my sister graduated, she chose not to participate in the ceremony because it just didn't matter to her. I have most of my planets above the horizon, including my sun and moon, and she has most of hers below the horizon, including her sun and moon.

And in the MBTI, and daily life as well, I am decidedly an introvert.
athenian200 said:
Judging types will tend to have more planets in Cardinal or Fixed signs, while Perceivers may tend to have more in Mutable signs.
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In my case, it's impossible to determine because my planets are split 50-50 between those criteria. I have five planets in mutable signs, four in cardinal signs, and one in a fixed sign. You'd draw a blank if you tried to do me!

athenian200 said:
Finally, you want to count up the number of elements in the chart for the remaining letter. If you're missing N/S, check to see if they have more major influences (Midheaven, Sun, Moon, etc) in Air or Earth signs. If you're missing T/F, check to see if they have more influences in Fire or Water signs.
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Presumably, fire is T and water is F? Again, it's reversed for me. My sun and moon are both in fire signs, and I don't have anything in a water sign except for that Saturn in Cancer, but I'm decidedly F in the MBTI. As for the air/earth criteria, again, it's impossible to determine because mine are split 50-50. I have the AC in an earth sign and MC in an air sign, and no other major influences in either of those elements.
 
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T

thelivingsky

Well-known member
No. Fire is N (intuitive or spirit) T is thinking (intellect, mind,). Yes water would correspond to the F scale and earth to the S scale. One needs to remember that house placements also influence a temperament. Thus a person with a packed 3rd house, even if those planets are in a water sign, is more intellectual or than a true very heavy water sign person. Likewise a person with a packed first house will often display many qualities that we normally associate with Aries. A packed 9th also tends to heighten the intellectual or philisophical leanings. You just can't add up the number of Cardinal planets or the number of earth planets and come up with an answer that gives an MB profile.

Also, Someone posted in this thread about Virgo; Virgo is earth but it is also a very mental/cerbral sign which is very naturally inclined to analytical thinking (because it is mutable.) Thus not as "earthy" as Taurus or Capricorn. Because it is mutable it wants to find closure and find the correct, right answer in situations, but its mutability keeps it open-minded and thus can contribute to P rather than J.

Where you will see the MB having really strong correlation to charts is when you see those who have really heavy charts in one element with little in their chart to counter that element.
 
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