What's the difference between the Sun in (a sign) & the rising (of the same sign)?

MidnightxPoison

Well-known member
What's the difference between the Sun in (a sign) & the rising (of the same sign)?

I know the Sun sign is who you truly are and the AC is what you appear to be like to others but what's the difference between, for an instance, a Scorpio Sun and Scorpio rising? Or Libra Sun and Libra rising.. etc? Are they essentially the same with only minor differences?

If someone is for example a Gemini Sun but Scorpio rising does it mean he isn't as superficial and flighty as other Geminis and that he's deeper, gets jealous easily, emotionally intense, secretive etc or is it just a mask?
And what if we reverse the roles - what would the difference be if he was a Scorpio Sun and Gemini rising instead?

I'm a little confused...
 

starlink

Well-known member
Re: What's the difference between the Sun in (a sign) & the rising (of the same sign)?

Oh MidnightxP, nobody answered you yet? It is indeed a bit like you described in your Gemini example. Ascendant is how we like people to see us really, how we appear to them physically as well and the ruler of the Ascendant is the planet to look at of course, because Ascendant alone is just a point, an angle in your chart. The sign your Asc. ruler is in, usually shows how you show yourself to the outside world which can be very different from your Sun sign of course.

Should the Ascendant ruler be in the 1st house and in the same sign and the Sun also in that sign, then of course, you get a double whammy.

Should Sun be in Taurus, but Ascendant in another sign, then then the Ascendant rulers placement in sign and house will give extra input to your character.

Sun in Taurus would show how you express your Taurean qualities, whilst an Asc. in Taurus not necessarily does that, because all depends on the ruler of the Asc. and the aspects from other planets to the Ascendant.

Has this helped a bit?
 

EJ53

Banned
Re: What's the difference between the Sun in (a sign) & the rising (of the same sign)?

MidnightxPoison said:
I know the Sun sign is who you truly are and the AC is what you appear to be like to others but what's the difference between, for an instance, a Scorpio Sun and Scorpio rising? Or Libra Sun and Libra rising.. etc? Are they essentially the same with only minor difference

In her book "Birth Signs", Debbie Frank says :-

**The Ascendant is what we play on full volume, the Sun Sign is "our tune" and the Moon is our background music.**

Now, this (together with the view that the Sun sign is who we truly are and the Ascendant as what we appear to be) strikes me as an excellent description of something which your question makes me realise I too do not fully understand.

If you pushed me, I'd say the Ascendant sign is the protective mask we wear until we are confident enough to present our true/Sun Sign self to others...At the moment of birth, our view of the world (in to which we must fit) was coloured by the Ascendant Sign.....So a Virgo Ascendant (like me) perceives the world as an organised place where attention is paid to detail, and proceeds to project that image of themselves in order to "fit in".....Guardedly, because they believe (say) their "happy-go-lucky" Sagittarius Sun Sign would be deemed unacceptable by this society into which they've been born.

In time though, experience tells us that it's "ok to be a Sagittarius".....and we allow our Sun Sign to increasingly shine through the Ascendant mask.

This of course does not answer your question, Midnight......But, it might explain why it is hard to do so.

Gimzo said:
...how is it with outer planets as ascendant rulers?

In my view, the individual's chart is ruled initially by the traditional ruler of the Ascendant Sign.........with the modern ruler taking over when/if the individual achieves a level of awareness that makes them sensitive to the influences of the outer planets.

EJ:)
 

gimzo23

Well-known member
Re: What's the difference between the Sun in (a sign) & the rising (of the same sign)?

EJ53 said:
In my view, the individual's chart is ruled initially by the traditional ruler of the Ascendant Sign.........with the modern ruler taking over when/if the individual achieves a level of awareness that makes them sensitive to the influences of the outer planets.

EJ:)

Thanks EJ. That's quite an interesting approach.
As my post is gone, I guess it must indeed have been considered as thread hijacking....

Edit: Just noticed it got moved and was made a new thread.
 
Last edited:
Re: What's the difference between the Sun in (a sign) & the rising (of the same sign)?

MidnightxPoison said:
I know the Sun sign is who you truly are and the AC is what you appear to be like to others but what's the difference between, for an instance, a Scorpio Sun and Scorpio rising? Or Libra Sun and Libra rising.. etc? Are they essentially the same with only minor differences?

If someone is for example a Gemini Sun but Scorpio rising does it mean he isn't as superficial and flighty as other Geminis and that he's deeper, gets jealous easily, emotionally intense, secretive etc or is it just a mask?
And what if we reverse the roles - what would the difference be if he was a Scorpio Sun and Gemini rising instead?

I'm a little confused...

This is the beauty and synthesis of astrology. I'm a modern astrologer that uses Equal house system. Although you have had some great replies my take would be very similar. The Asc sign is the 'mask and persona' that we all wear and hide behind for protection, but definately not what's going on underneath....

The Sun sign is what going on underneath, think of a glass milk bottle, the milk is your sun sign and glass bottle Asc, but the milk still has to 'come out' or be expressed through the Asc sign.

there are lots of similarities to Asc and sun sign, but what alters these is other factors, like any planets in 1st, the Asc ruler and where it's deposited, etc etc. Planets modified by sign, then house, then aspects and of course the art is to blend and synthesise all the matters to make sense....

Hope this helps...;)
 

gimzo23

Well-known member
Re: What's the difference between the Sun in (a sign) & the rising (of the same sign)?

Caprising said:
Another thing to consider is that the ascendant is at the end of the 12 house, so will have a "neptunian background flavour" thrown into the mix. This is probably easier to see when the Capricorn sun sign is looked at in comparison to Capricorn rising. The cappy sun is a lot more serious and business orientated, (without taking aspects and other planetary placements into account), while Cappy rising gives a more "dreamy artistically inclined" effect to the still somewhat serious individual.

I don't quite get that.The ascendant is at the end of the 12th house? Do you mean like the ascendant in general has a little 12th house flavour because it marks the beginning of the first house and thus is somewhat related to the 12th house? Never heard of this before. Maybe I'm missing something here?
 

Ekim86

Well-known member
Re: What's the difference between the Sun in (a sign) & the rising (of the same sign)?

Hello there. I thought id comment and try to explain myself being a Double sagg. Sagg rising and Sagg sun. To me it seems like, what you see is what you get. I project sagg qualities to people and if you dig alittle deeper more sagg qualities. Some combinations of sun sign and rising sign might not blend to well with each other. Sagg on Sagg may not be the best as sagg may need alittle more stablizing to pervent him from running into the woods like the centaur he is. My optimizism is a great thing sometimes but in other cases it will make me feel too content and less realilistic about certain matters. However some combinations may be contradictory to each other. In Astrological Insight into Personality by Betty Lundsted she explains that for a man it may be better to have 60% masculine 40%feminine trinity. That is for example, a masculine sun sign and rising sign, then a feminine moon sign. This would fullfill Jungs defination of 60% male 40% female. Allowing the male to be more balanced and work through his personal problems without the additonal problems attached to the overpowering anima figure. For a women its 60% feminine and 40 % male. Now that I think about it the rising sign could just be way to produce more indivduals and unqiue-ness especailly now that its very rare to find someone who is very alike astrologically even with sooo many people in the world. Must have been nearly impossible 2000 years ago. Well I dont think I explained much but I fidgured id post something to try and help out.;)
 
Re: What's the difference between the Sun in (a sign) & the rising (of the same sign)?

The Ascendant (or rising sign) is often considered the mask one wears when meeting others. Perhaps it is most aptly thought of as the automatic responses to one's environment. The Ascendant shows our natural defenses and how we cope with day-to-day issues. The energies of the sign and condition of the Ascendant are most overt and obvious to others. The Ascendant shows an individual's first, natural reaction to new people and situations.

http://cafeastrology.com/risingsignsascendant.html



8.1theangularhouses.gif
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Houses numbered 1, 4, 7, and 10 are the Action houses. They are the most important houses in any horoscope because they show how you make contact with reality, how you deal with the "here and now".


The First House: Begins with the Rising Sign, the sign that was rising on the eastern horizon when you were born. This is also called the Ascendant or Ascending Sign and is one of the most important points in the horoscope. The Ascendant has an affect on your appearance. In some cases, a person can look more like their Ascendant than their Sun-Sign.

Houses numbered 1, 4, 7, and 10 are the Action houses. They are the most important houses in any horoscope because they show how you make contact with reality, how you deal with the "here and now".

The First House has to do with your "outer personality", the impression you make on people when they first see you. But it goes beyond that. It also shows how you begin anything, your first approach, your first action. For instance, someone with an Aries Ascendant (Aries Rising) will tend to charge right in, while a Taurus Rising person has to take their time and build up momentum. A Leo rising will get someone else to do it for them (probably some poor soul with Virgo Rising).

The placement of planets in the First House is also important. Any planet there, especially if it is in the same signs as the Rising Sign, will give you traits of the Sign that the planet rules. In other words, if you have Mars in the First House, you will tend to be active and aggressive like an Aries Sun-Sign. Saturn will make you cautious and careful at first approach, like a Capricorn Sun-Sign. If there is more than one planet in the First House, the planet that is closest to the cusp (beginning) of the house usually predominates. The only exception is if another planet in the house is stronger by sign.

http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/AngularHouses.htm
 

Nexus7

Well-known member
Re: What's the difference between the Sun in (a sign) & the rising (of the same sign)?

It often seems to be that the Ascendant-sigh is not necessarily as obvious at all that, othertimes, it does seem to be more noticeable.

I don't know about it being a 'mask' exactly, but it can mislead about what an individual is 'really like.' Perhaps, it is more about a way of self-projection and interfacing with the world at large. I do think it may come across when an individal is being on their 'best behaviour' and whats to put across their most ideal self. I knew someone once,m for example, who seemed to personify all the refinement and idealism, along with the values of Aquarius - he was into equality between the sexes, non-possessiveness, social reformism. It took a while for a far more 'human' Aries Sun to emerge - one that was a whole lot more egocentric and competitiveness than I would have imagined to begin with (his Moon was in Scorpio).

If anything could be linked to the 'mask' then I would link it in some ways to the Midheaven. I sometimes think it is here where most people may be required to compromise the way they project themselves most in favour of what is expected of them in their professional role in life.
 

starlink

Well-known member
Re: What's the difference between the Sun in (a sign) & the rising (of the same sign)?

I don't quite get that.The ascendant is at the end of the 12th house? Do you mean like the ascendant in general has a little 12th house flavour because it marks the beginning of the first house and thus is somewhat related to the 12th house? Never heard of this before. Maybe I'm missing something here?

To be honest Caprising, I also never heard about this assumption, but who knows, I might have missed that information. Any known astrologers you know who back this up? I am interested and never stop learning , hence my curiosity:)
 

EJ53

Banned
Re: What's the difference between the Sun in (a sign) & the rising (of the same sign)?

starlink said:
To be honest Caprising, I also never heard about this assumption, but who knows, I might have missed that information. Any known astrologers you know who back this up? I am interested and never stop learning , hence my curiosity:)

This is news to me too, Star........However, it makes sense if we think of the Soul entering the world at/through the Ascendant point.......having just completed (and therefore perhaps still strongly influenced by) it's journey through the 12th house (whilst in the womb).

Nexus said:
If anything could be linked to the 'mask' then I would link it in some ways to the Midheaven. I sometimes think it is here where most people may be required to compromise the way they project themselves most in favour of what is expected of them in their professional role in life.

I agree with this, Nexus...........but perhaps we wear the MC mask consciously and the Asc mask unconsciously.

EJ:)
 

sara31tx

Well-known member
Re: What's the difference between the Sun in (a sign) & the rising (of the same sign)?

very interesting thread..I asked this question in another thread awhile back..My daughter is a Scorpio Rising as well as Scorpio Sun, where I am a Scorpio Rising with a Pisces sun... What you all said makes alot of sense...I do know that my daughter is an open book, where I am different in that very few people know the real me..I keep certain parts of myself hidden.
 

freedomlover

Well-known member
Re: What's the difference between the Sun in (a sign) & the rising (of the same sign)?

Caprising said:
Another thing to consider is that the ascendant is at the end of the 12 house, so will have a "neptunian background flavour" thrown into the mix. This is probably easier to see when the Capricorn sun sign is looked at in comparison to Capricorn rising. The cappy sun is a lot more serious and business orientated, (without taking aspects and other planetary placements into account), while Cappy rising gives a more "dreamy artistically inclined" effect to the still somewhat serious individual.

I hadn't really thought of this before, but it seems plausible to me. Especially in light of how I view Ascendants ( in addition to many view I share that have already been explained on this thread.). I see the Ascendant as something we have to work through before we can become our Sun sign. Anything we have to work through is a karmic/spiritual lesson. So I can see the 12th house ( past lives) "flavoring" the Ascendant.

Did anybody understand that other than me?:eek:
 

EJ53

Banned
Re: What's the difference between the Sun in (a sign) & the rising (of the same sign)?

freedomlover said:
.....Did anybody understand that other than me?

Made perfect sense to me, FL...........but that might not be a good indicator:D

Sara said:
My daughter is a Scorpio Rising as well as Scorpio Sun, where I am a Scorpio Rising with a Pisces sun... What you all said makes alot of sense...I do know that my daughter is an open book, where I am different in that very few people know the real me..I keep certain parts of myself hidden.

I guess Sun Sign rising is indeed like an open book, Sara.........since what your daughter unconsciously projects (asc sign) to "fit into the world" is what she also believes herself to be (sun sign).......You, on the other hand, would tend to hide the parts of your Pisces sun which you suspect the scorpio ascendant world would find unacceptable.......Eventually though, the passing of time/experience makes us all realise that the world finds all 12 signs acceptable......and our sun finally allows itself to shine fully in the company of others.

EJ:)
 
Re: What's the difference between the Sun in (a sign) & the rising (of the same sign)?

gimzo23 said:
I don't quite get that.The ascendant is at the end of the 12th house? Do you mean like the ascendant in general has a little 12th house flavour because it marks the beginning of the first house and thus is somewhat related to the 12th house? Never heard of this before. Maybe I'm missing something here?

I don't feel this is plausible, cos I know a couple of Cappri rising and they are 'dead serious' people, often without a sense of humour and usually are quite cautious and even shy, probably more so when young. Cappi's do mature well and seem to come into their own in mid life though.
 

MidnightxPoison

Well-known member
Re: What's the difference between the Sun in (a sign) & the rising (of the same sign)?

astrologer50 said:
The Ascendant (or rising sign) is often considered the mask one wears when meeting others. Perhaps it is most aptly thought of as the automatic responses to one's environment. The Ascendant shows our natural defenses and how we cope with day-to-day issues. The energies of the sign and condition of the Ascendant are most overt and obvious to others. The Ascendant shows an individual's first, natural reaction to new people and situations.

http://cafeastrology.com/risingsignsascendant.html



8.1theangularhouses.gif
8.1sub.gif
8.1sub2.gif

Houses numbered 1, 4, 7, and 10 are the Action houses. They are the most important houses in any horoscope because they show how you make contact with reality, how you deal with the "here and now".


The First House: Begins with the Rising Sign, the sign that was rising on the eastern horizon when you were born. This is also called the Ascendant or Ascending Sign and is one of the most important points in the horoscope.

Houses numbered 1, 4, 7, and 10 are the Action houses. They are the most important houses in any horoscope because they show how you make contact with reality, how you deal with the "here and now".

The First House has to do with your "outer personality", the impression you make on people when they first see you. But it goes beyond that. It also shows how you begin anything, your first approach, your first action. For instance, someone with an Aries Ascendant (Aries Rising) will tend to charge right in, while a Taurus Rising person has to take their time and build up momentum. A Leo rising will get someone else to do it for them (probably some poor soul with Virgo Rising).

In other words, if you have Mars in the First House, you will tend to be active and aggressive like an Aries Sun-Sign. Saturn will make you cautious and careful at first approach, like a Capricorn Sun-Sign. If there is more than one planet in the First House, the planet that is closest to the cusp (beginning) of the house usually predominates. The only exception is if another planet in the house is stronger by sign.

[URL="http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/AngularHouses.htm"]http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/AngularHouses.htm[/URL]

Wow! That was really helpful! Thank you so much for this.

The Ascendant has an affect on your appearance. In some cases, a person can look more like their Ascendant than their Sun-Sign.

Hmmm... makes me wonder if I look more like a Virgo or a Libra.

The placement of planets in the First House is also important. Any planet there, especially if it is in the same signs as the Rising Sign, will give you traits of the Sign that the planet rules.

I think I have the Moon and Mercury in the First House. Does this mean I'm emotional, deep and a talker?
 

mayin

Well-known member
Re: What's the difference between the Sun in (a sign) & the rising (of the same sign)

with reference to the original question, i read that the asc also describes an attitude to oneself (among other things of course) and that would qualify a difference with the sun sign. i.e a cancer rising would also be sensitive and defensive like the cancer sun, but the former would direct that sympathy just as much towards oneself as to the outside world -- protecting onself, self-pity etc.
similarly a leo rising would still have that quality of pride, but its more about dignity/regality of self rather than projected on others -- 'showing off' or bossing around other people. does that make sense?

i find it interesting how people usually don't really identify with their rising as they do with sun or moon, yet seasoned astrologers often claim to be able to determine someone's rising by just seeing them and having a wee chat...
 

wilsontc

Staff member
point vs. planet

Poison,

You asked:
MidnightxPoison said:
What's the difference between the Sun...& the rising...?

I think the most important thing to keep in mind is the Ascendant (rising sign) is a POINT and the :sun: is a PLANET. Points in the chart indicate areas of focus...but they don't have any energy themselves. So points are simply "there" in the chart, but they don't have to do anything. Planets are the ENERGY in a chart, so a planet DOES SOMETHING in the chart. Bring this back to the original example, a person's Ascendent is simply their "self"...the person doesn't have to do anything to be themselves. But a person's :sun: is a planetary energy that they have to USE in their life if they are going to get anything out of the :sun: energy.

About points and planets,

Tim
 

MidnightxPoison

Well-known member
Re: What's the difference between the Sun in (a sign) & the rising (of the same sign)

mayin said:
i find it interesting how people usually don't really identify with their rising as they do with sun or moon, yet seasoned astrologers often claim to be able to determine someone's rising by just seeing them and having a wee chat...

I actually identify with my Libra ASC quite a lot (outwardly). Although not as much as I identify with my Scorpio Moon (emotionally).

People never guess I'm a Virgo Sun because I don't really seem like one. I'm chatty, laugh a lot and appear a little ditzy sometimes.. lol.

I think some people are more like their Sun sign, some are like their rising. The way I see the difference between them is that the rising sign is what others see but the Sun sign is what one truly is when (for example) alone or something.

I have this male friend who's a Gemini with Scorpio ASC. He's the weirdest Gemini ever because he is so not a typical one. I would've never thought he was one until he told me. I actually thought he really was Scorpio or something like that.
 

kaminari

Well-known member
Re: point vs. planet

wilsontc said:
Poison,

You asked:


I think the most important thing to keep in mind is the Ascendant (rising sign) is a POINT and the :sun: is a PLANET. Points in the chart indicate areas of focus...but they don't have any energy themselves. So points are simply "there" in the chart, but they don't have to do anything. Planets are the ENERGY in a chart, so a planet DOES SOMETHING in the chart. Bring this back to the original example, a person's Ascendent is simply their "self"...the person doesn't have to do anything to be themselves. But a person's :sun: is a planetary energy that they have to USE in their life if they are going to get anything out of the :sun: energy.

About points and planets,

Tim

.. I like this idea of the ASC as a point in the sky .. & the planets as the energy .. things we must use .. whilst the ASC is just there .. ourselves ..

.. so the ASC is kind of like the spout our energy pours out of .. into the world ..

.. & the Midheaven would be .. ? .. the window the world is looking through to see us .. ? ..
 
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