Random presidential thoughts

Blaze said:

Hearing mumbling's of "civil war" and "succession" around my erstwhile political associates. Geez. Why some believe killing one another could be an option is beyond me.

Life is so precious, such a marvelous thing to behold - can we all just not play the same old bloody battle of "my opinion is fact cause the other guy is too dead to state his own" and try to practice the democracy this nation was founded upon?

Perhaps I'm still too much the idealist. Or perhaps I'm a political optimist, despite the abyss of a political situation the nation (and the first world over) seems to find itself in.

...Life is too finite for war. Once you die, the world ends for you. Can't we see it's the same for everyone else?

The Presidential situation is an issue, but I don't think having any one side get "their" candidate into the position will help mend this division we currently find ourselves in. No, I think this upcoming election will see further salt thrown upon the wound.

It's not just in the USA, either. Look at the political storm in Canada right now.

It's odd. Humanity has never been in an age that's so connected, yet so disconnected at once. So odd to me, so tragic.

Anyway, ramble over. Good to see you, JA. Hope all is well.

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Blaze said:

I dunno, Dave. Saturn is the lord of this age

an I don't see anything kind about it.

Hopefully I'm wrong about what my chart has taught me about the planets.

About Saturn. Hopefully all the astrologers who've taught me, showed me their examples

as proofs, were also wrong. Hopefully. I truly mean that.

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david starling said:

Are you assuming Saturn is the Native-ruler of Aquarius? In the pattern I'm using, it's "in its fall" in Aquarius, and Native-ruler of Capricorn, which is more accurate according to my observations.

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passiflora said:

Was the goat introduced after the disappearance of the satyr play?

https://www.pbs.org/empires/thegreeks/background/24c.html

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Blaze said:

Of course. That is apart of what I've been taught and have seen work. That and Saturn not being a "kind" planet. Horribly cold that one is. Worse in Capricorn than Aquarius, but that matters little from my observations.

Now, that's not to say I'm dismissing your claims. But to deny ones experience without proof against them? Mind showing me your proof? You can PM me if needed, Dave.

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JUPITERASC said:

SATURN IS COLD DRY AND INIMICAL TO LIFE

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Blaze said:

Of course. That is apart of what I've been taught and have seen work.
That and Saturn not being a "kind" planet.

Horribly cold that one is.

Worse in Capricorn than Aquarius, but
that matters little from my observations.
Now, that's not to say I'm dismissing your claims.
But to deny ones experience without proof against them?
Mind showing me your proof?
You can PM me if needed, Dave.

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david starling said:

What's your reason for dismissing as the Native-ruler of Aquarius?

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david starling said:

Not judging, just asking.

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david starling said:

What's your reason for dismissing as the Native-ruler of Aquarius? Not judging, just asking.

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Blaze said:

Heya JA, good to see you, pal.
And yes, that's what makes this age look grim.
Perhaps after humanity stands on all the bodies of the lost, we'll remember, again,
that war is bad and leads nowhere but to the riches of the mortician, eh?

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Blaze said:

Anything anyone has ever claimed to me that Uranus does in my chart is something Saturn already did. For far longer than Uranus was being used, as these trad vs modern debates go. So, because in my experience it's done nothing I cannot attribute to an older ruler, I never used it.

That's not a dig on modern astrology either. I'm no astrologer; just someone who looks it up from time to time. I have no horse in that race.

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Kaiousei no Senshi said:

To explain further, there are a few philosophical issues that arise when using the outer planets. It's true that many more classically oriented astrologers use them, but they tend to regard them as fainter fixed stars, so their importance and abilities tend to be scaled back or ignored unless they are on an angle or conjunct some important planet.

Dirius is correct in noting that the fact the outers carry no visible light is a major detriment to their inclusion into the classical framework.


Astrology evolved alongside ancient optical theories and these theories still permeate astrological discourse to this day.

Planets in aspect are said to "see" or "regard" one another and their light is often considered a transmitter of their influence.

The word "planet" originally evolved from the Greek "planetes aster", or "wandering star" and referred to the Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Jupiter, Mars, and Saturn whose motion could be detected against the backdrop of fixed stars that are stable in their relative distance from one another, but all move together as one large group. Today we have redefined what a planet is to serve our own categorical needs. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's important to remember that we, as astrologers, have organizational needs that are different from those of astronomy.

Another issue with the outer planets in general is that they lack much of the tools that the classical planets have. This isn't just referring to dignities (though that is a large part of it), but they also lack nature, sect, gender, years, winds, orbs, signatures, etc. This may all seem superfluous or unnecessary, but its significance really cannot be overstated. Without these associations, the outer planets are essentially blank orbs without instruction or meaning.

Finally, there is the issue with the meanings contemporary astrologers have given to them.

Mostly they either
1) don't make sense within their own context
or 2) are already taken by another planet.

About the first, a lot of the meanings of the planets have been assigned to them based on mythological interpretations or perceived mundane events happening around the time of their discovery. A lot of the mythological meanings are cherry picked and often nonsensical, like Uranus ruling rebellion, but in the myth Ouranos is the tyrannical dictator, not the freedom fighter. The mundane events are definitely cherry picked as there are many important events happening around the world at any given time. Pluto was discovered in 1930 and has taken on an association with nuclear force, but when I hear 1930s I think Great Depression and I've never heard anyone associate Pluto with financial ruination.
About the second,

each of the outer planets have significations

that are more or less plucked from the classical planets.

Uranus's reported instability and recklessness can be found in Mercury and Mars.

Neptune's illusions and mysticism can be found in the Moon. Pluto's transformation and general heavy-handedness are the domains of Mercury and Saturn. Not only does this create strange, cross-breed planets, but it makes the classical planets into flat characters when their meanings and significations are much more multifaceted in the tradition.

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Blaze said:

Anything anyone has ever claimed to me that Uranus does in my chart is something Saturn already did. For far longer than Uranus was being used, as these trad vs modern debates go. So, because in my experience it's done nothing I cannot attribute to an older ruler, I never used it.

That's not a dig on modern astrology either. I'm no astrologer; just someone who looks it up from time to time. I have no horse in that race.

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david starling said:

So, nothing based on principle, just what you deduced from your own Chart. Fair enough.
But, was being used as co-ruler (if not sole ruler) for Aquarius
by Modernistic astrologers decades before Traditionalistic astrology began excluding pre-telescopic rulerships.
"Traditional" astrology , as its adherents have named it, is

a relatively recent movement.

It harkens back to before the outermost planets were known to exist.

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