Planets at the bendings?

What does it mean to have planets that are squaring the nodes? I first heard this term over at skyscript and I started to notice them when viewing the astro databank's charts. For example, Rafael Nadal has his exalted Mars in the 3rd house at the bendings. He's a tennis superstar and he physically wears down his opponents due to his own supreme athleticism. And Huey P Newton (co-founder of the Black Panthers) has his Jupiter in fall in the 8th house at the bendings. He ended up getting a Ph.D in social philosophy but also dealt with drug addiction.

One definition I've found from this link:

http://books.google.com/books?id=OtUdyValINQC&pg=PA212&lpg=PA212&dq=j+lee+lehman+planets+at+the+bendings&source=bl&ots=gZRF9Jkcfe&sig=rQU8rZji7vPAIrboRnBmL7GEtJ0&hl=en#v=onepage&q=j%20lee%20lehman%20planets%20at%20the%20bendings&f=false

In classical astrology, a planet that is square the nodes is said to be "at the bendings," and this planet would become a focal point of change and crisis for the individual. Dr. J. Lee Lehman discusses the history of this phenomenon in great detail in her excellent book Classical Astrology for Modern Living.....When interpreting a natal chart, be aware of planets that are "at the bendings" and squaring the nodes. These planets may not seem particularly prominent in their own right.....However, a planet that is "at the bendings" must be given careful consideration, because that planet, and the issues associated with it, will tend to take center stage repeatedly in the individual's life.

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There seems to be a strong need for the planet to express itself and could possibly have a career connotation with it. Would this be considered a dignity or debility for the native based on sign and placement? My poorly-placed Mars/Jupiter opposition is at the bendings so I'm curious about this phenomenon in general. Thanks.

Hey Wames. I'll look into this. I have a library now, so I should find something. Plus, check out your inbox. You have a present in there.

I did notice your Mar's, Jupiter situation. Seemed particular pertinent to your health and to your love life. But I bet there is more. (I wish I had a search function for my books.)

I'll get back to you on this.

To my understanding, such a position (squaring the Nodes) is a critical one, and I have always delineated it as representing an affliction for the planet involved; in the event charts of several different disasters, I have twice found a planet (in one case Pluto, in another the hypothetical "Dark Moon Lilith") squaring the Nodes; of course neither of these are considered in Traditionalist astrology.
Similarly, a planet "being in the Nodes", ie, being the same degree number as the degree of the Nodes, was considered to be "fateful" for the planet involved; I too follow this concept, however "being in the Nodes" does not carry the same negative implications as "squaring the Nodes" does (at least to my understanding of these considerations)

Wames said:

Novice here, studying traditional astrology at a snail's pace. How do traditionalists view planets squaring the nodes? I first heard this term over at skyscript and I started to notice them when viewing the astro databank's charts.....

....My poorly-placed Mars/Jupiter opposition is at the bendings so I'm curious about this phenomenon in general. Thanks.

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"THE LUNAR NODES YOUR KEY TO EXCELLENT CHART INTERPRETATION"

"...The most complete textbook on the Lunar Nodes in print, beautifully illustrated by award winning author Judith Hill. No stone left unturned! Vivid examples. Transit and Natal Nodes. East and West interpretations. Medical Nodes, Nodes and Death, Transits to and from the Nodes, Signs and Houses, Philosophy of the Nodes. Includes transcribed rare lecture material..." http://www.amazon.com/The-Lunar-Nodes-Excellent-Interpretation/dp/1883376335/ref=pd_sxp_f_r

JUPITERASC said:

"THE LUNAR NODES YOUR KEY TO EXCELLENT CHART INTERPRETATION"

"...The most complete textbook on the Lunar Nodes in print, beautifully illustrated by award winning author Judith Hill. No stone left unturned! Vivid examples. Transit and Natal Nodes. East and West interpretations. Medical Nodes, Nodes and Death, Transits to and from the Nodes, Signs and Houses, Philosophy of the Nodes. Includes transcribed rare lecture material..." http://www.amazon.com/The-Lunar-Nodes-Excellent-Interpretation/dp/1883376335/ref=pd_sxp_f_r

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The book I also always recommend as #1 for a study of the Nodes!

dr. farr said:

To my understanding, such a position (squaring the Nodes) is a critical one, and I have always delineated it as representing an affliction for the planet involved; in the event charts of several different disasters, I have twice found a planet (in one case Pluto, in another the hypothetical "Dark Moon Lilith") squaring the Nodes; of course neither of these are considered in Traditionalist astrology.

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I realize the thread is about the natal configuration, but I thought I would mention my experience with the transits.

When uranus squared my nodes I ejected myself from a situation that I had spent years working towards. It wasn't working out as planned. It was bittersweet with liberation on one hand and a feeling of wasted time on the other.

When transiting neptune squared my nodes, at least 4 years of progress was erased within months. My whole life suddenly dissolved from every aspect. It was totally tragic because I had found my "happy place" before this happened. None of it was by choice.

The jupiter and saturn squares weren't that eventful.

Some examples of "squaring the Nodes" I have found in disaster event charts:

-Bath, Michigan bombing (largest # of fatalities in a school attack in US history56 killed, over 70 others injured; 5/18/27, 8:45 AM, Bath, MI)

+Jupiter squares the Nodes (1degree03minutes from exact)


-Start of World War 2 (9/01/39, 4:40 AM, Wielun, Poland)

+Pluto squares the Nodes (1degree06minutes from exact)
...also, Saturn in the Nodes (@0 degrees), Saturn being in exact conjunction with the South Node


-Attack on Pearl Harbor (brought USA into World War 2; 12/07/41, 7:48 AM, Kaneohe, Hawaii)

+Sun squares the Nodes (2degrees47minutes from exact)


-Challenger (NASA) disaster (Cape Canaveral, Florida, 1/28/86, 11:38 AM)

+Mercury squares the Nodes (2degrees16minutes from exact)


-Mt Carmel (Waco, Texas) gunfight and beginning of siege (culminated with fiery deaths of 76 persons 50 days later, which is the subject of another chart; this gunfight/start of siege chart is dated 2/28/93, 9:45 AM, Mt. Carmel Texas)

+Lilith squares the Nodes (2degrees15minutes from exact)
...also, Venus (in detriment in Aries, in 12th house) in the Nodes (@17)

!4C said:

The jupiter and saturn squares weren't that eventful.

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I should rephrase that. There weren't any dramatic events or crises at those times. At those times, however, I was actively pursuing opportunities that would open up doors to significant multiyear cycles.

So jupiter and saturn marked non-dramatic beginnings, while uranus and neptune marked very tragic endings.

BTW, sometimes it appears that endings and beginnings are the same thing. I define new beginnings as having clear direction forward, while endings don't always have clear direction after the fallout.

Just to add, there seems to be a distinction made as to whether the planet "in the bends" is in a closing or opening square. When a planet is at the North Bends, then it manifests its influence into the outer world in the form of events and circumstances. If it is a South Bend, it will be internalized and operate on a more personal level. Apparently, this was explained in an article by astrologer Kathy Allen, which was referenced by astrologer Mary Plumb.

You can find the full article here: http://mountainastrologer.com/tma/at-the-bending

Additionally, Clelia Romano did a contrast and comparison paper on the nodes, looking at how ancient astrologers interpreted the nodes. Obviously, the meanings and interpretations of the nodes changed over time. For example, it was mentioned that the southern node in conjunction with a malefic planet would rescue the person from the planet's negative influence, to a certain extent. The opposite would be true if the "Dragon's Head" were in conjunction. However, other astrologers (e.g., William Lilly) interpreted such effects in the opposite. (At least, I think that's what I recall.)

From what I gather, you can determine the degree of severity a native will suffer from a planet in the bends by the nature of the planet in relation to the Moon, since these are the lunar nodes. (Note: this is my own personal opinion.) And the Moon, it appears, causes the greatest calamity to an individual when it is "in the bends."

You can find the article here: http://www.astrologiahumana.com/lunar_nodes_in_traditional_astrology.pdf

Hope this helps!

What is the orb used for natal planets at the bendings? Is it the same as planets in the node (2°, 3° max for special case)?

!4C said:

What is the orb used for natal planets at the bendings? Is it the same as planets in the node (2°, 3° max for special case)?

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That's what I would imagine since those are the orbs that are used for most mathematical points in a horoscope. But I haven't come across anyone who's specifically addressed that issue.

I think the way to really gauge the size of the orb is to "reverse engineer" by after-the-fact analysis. That, obviously, is time consuming. It's also difficult to isolate the effect of such an aspect when it's hard to determine the exact effect that being in the bends causes, especially when astrological configurations in other areas of the chart can account for similar occurrences in a nativity. But it might be worth a shot looking at an assortment of charts. If you have the time of course!

If I find anything on that point, I'll let you know . . . .

!4C said:

What is the orb used for natal planets at the bendings? Is it the same as planets in the node (2°, 3° max for special case)?

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I have always followed the 3 degree max. orb for the Nodes, and for aspects made to them (in my listing of diasaster-chart square to the Nodes examples, you will find that all squares are within 3 degree orb of exact square)

Regarding the quality of the Nodes, I will mention that 13th century Gerard of Cremona (followed by H.C. Agrippa), allocated to the North Node the influences of a Venus/Jupiter conjunction quality, and to the South Node the influences of a Mars/Saturn conjunction quality, ie, that the influences of the NN are similar to the combined + qualities of Venus and Jupiter, and that the influences of the SN are similar to the combined - qualities of Mars and Saturn; Gerard of Cremona (and Agrippa) did not follow the older "NN increases, SN decreases" doctrine (the "Nodes as catalyst" outlook), but instead looked upon each Node as a quality "thing in itself", that is, looked at each Node more as a kind of "planet"-in this we see a reflection of the outlook of Vedic astrology, which has always looked at the Nodes (Rahu = NN, Ketu = SN) as "shadow planets"...

Hey Dr Farr: (Incidentally, whenever I call you Dr. Farr, I think of Dr. Who for some reason.)

Thanks for that little bit of info above.

Maybe you can help me with a little inquiry I have regarding the nodes. Your mentioning of Agrippa reminded me of one of his contemporaries: Nostradamus. I know Agrippa was tutored by Trithemius, and Trithemius came from the same school of thought as Dee, both of whom looked down on Nostradamus for his prophesying without the utilization of mathematics (in astrology). And I imagine that Agrippa was of the same mind, that one does not divert from tradition. But Nostradamus was of a different mind, using the nodes in conjunction with his scrying bowl to determine future dates. He did use mathematics to a degree, however. For example, 1º movement of the NN would equal 100 years in some instances. But this was in the context of horary, and a radical form of horary at that, using all sorts of nontraditional methods.

Nevertheless, I know he did use astrology for clients. Perhaps for medicinal and medical purposes, but he was schooled in the art of astrology. And correct me if I'm wrong, but he was schooled by his Jewish grandfather (with all that implies). That means he must have had a thorough knowledge of astrology, and he must have had a thorough understanding of the nodes. But his use of the nodes was different. And so, in a very long (and probably unnecessarily so) manner, I come to my question: Do you know of how Nostradamus used the nodes in natal astrology? I have had a hard time finding anything on his use of the nodes except using them to develop his quatrains.

From what I can discern, his use of the Nodes followed closely the Arabic use of them, which was of much more "mystical" and "occult" application than the more prosaic and limited use of them in mainstream Renaissance astrological practice during that period of time.

Another example of a disaster chart with planets "square the Nodes"

-beginning of American Civil War (attack by Confederate forces on Union Fort Sumter, April 12, 1861, Charleston, South Carolina, 4:30 AM)

+Lilith square the Nodes (1degree27 minutes from exact)
+Venus square the Nodes (2degrees37 minutes from exact)
...also,
Jupiter (retrograde, in cadent 6th whole sign house, partile square by Moon) IN the Nodes (17th degree)

Another example of a disaster chart with a planet "square the Nodes"

-sinking of the Titanic (April 15, 1912)

+Neptune square the Nodes (only 32 minutes from exact)
...also,
Neptune was IN the Nodes (21st degree) as well

I know Bernadette Brady says a planet at the bendings is very important and often indicates your career or some important element of your career.
Maybe I missed it - you mentioned your Mars Jupiter are in poor condition - would you like to specify. (If I missed it in the thread, I apologize : )
Bernadette says a planet that in traditional astrology is considered weak or damaged can function well if it is used in an alternative way, rather than mainstream.

: ) Helle

I continue to struggle with the overall meaning of the lunar node axis. Significant contacts in the natal chart, such as conjunctions and squares, seem to indicate how we are important to the world. In that sense, it represents our true calling that supersedes our personal interests (sun/MC). Transits to these points give us temporary, but important role to play. The role, however, might not be honorable or pleasant to fulfill. Some will become sacrificial lambs, as Dr. Farr pointed out many tragedies associated with planets at the bendings. I think it is related to complexity of trying keep all the separate world events tied together somehow.

Thanks for all the replies!! It's been really educational.

Cypo- Thanks for reviving the thread, I kinda forgot about it. Yeah, relationships haven't really been very kind to me. Usually the timing is off. I'll meet the right type of person for me but it's when I am not ready to settle down. Or when I am ready to go the distance then they aren't at that stage in life to take the plunge. I've accepted the idea of staying single forever (even my Lot of Marriage is in the 12th House). My natal chart doesn't give me much hope in that department (except for the exaltation ruler of the 7th). The only health issues I've had was a little bit of asthma and shortness of breath when I was younger after extreme workouts (that's my Saturn talking though!). For the most part I've been pretty healthy. I'll have to check it again just to make sure. But I think it was in ITA where al-Qabisi mentions planets linked with signs and their illnesses. My Mars in Virgo is associated with the stomach. That's something I have to watch out for. I do tend to get stomach pains when I am really nervous. All the additional links were incredibly valuable too! Gracias.

!4C- I really appreciate your insight and observation on transits to the nodes. I think I have to do more research into the lunar nodes too.

Dr. Farr - Yeah, I don't mind hearing about the good, the bad, and the ugliest regarding the nodal squares. It could be an issue or crisis down the line if I am not paying attention to it (especially with my Mars since it's my out-of-sect Malefic). Thanks for your input.

Jupiter ASC- I am sold! I will pick up the Lunar Node book. Thank you!

Helle- I'll attach my chart so you can have a visual of it. I use whole signs for topics, so my Mars in Virgo is in the 12th house opposite Jupiter in Pisces in the 6th house, which squares my 3rd/9th axis lunar nodes. I have a one-track mind when it comes to Mars and Jupiter combinations, a tendency that I have to break free of. I always think of athletics when it comes to Mars-Jup. Maybe because I was raised in such a very jockular home. My father was a big time athlete in school and he went on to coach football and basketball. My mother, same thing, and she was a girl's basketball coach. Instead of team sports, I went the more artistic route and started taking dance at the age of 7. Long story short, that was all she wrote - I found my calling. I started teaching dance at the age of 17 and I still do it today. It's my biggest passion and greatest love.

I've contemplated the negatives for my Mars/Jup squaring the nodes along the 3rd/9th axis. I don't know if it has anything to do with that configuration....but sometimes I feel like I'm not forceful enough when giving my point of view or I'll just stay quiet and not say anything. And I always seem to have the most luck when I travel the path of most resistance. But that's proving to be a difficult feat because my Mars in Virgo likes routine and sameness (12th house - house of addictions too. I've always been addicted to exercise). And I always need time alone to re-energize and focus. I don't know. There's alot of challenges and contradictions to work through in my chart. Yay me! haha.

Another example (from my collection of mundane disaster charts)

-JFK shooting (12:30 PM, Dallas, Texas, November 22, 1963)

+Jupiter (rx, in Aries) square the Nodes (2degrees07minutes from exact)

...also, Moon IN the Nodes (@11 degrees)