So, does this guy have a perfect chart? Or am I missing something =P

I'm dating this fellow and he is really nice. I got his birth time/date/place and looked at his chart. He has 3 planets in the 7th House (very partner oriented) and they are all sextiled. H does not have any squares in his chart. I only see an opposition between venus and chiron - but that's it.

Is this fellow too good to be true?

What do you think about the venus/chiron aspect? (I am not good at reading chiron)

I do notice that his moon and venus are in Scorpio -- their detriment.

Do you think there is some part of his personality that I have not seen yet?

What's your opinion?

Okay here goes,

Neptune conjunct Sun 7th can be a very deceptive influence.
Uranus and Venus squre MC challenging aspects,
Uranus opposing NN another challenge.

He has far from a perfect chart and I dont notice any trines either.

Moon conjunct Pluto can be another challenging aspect.

No one has a perfect chart, not even those who are supposedly very evolved.


It is up to you to discover this person's qualities as time goes on and dont forget you are projecting on to him from your own. So both charts have to be considered, ie. you can do a composite to see the dynamics at work.

Good luck

raindrops, I think the question is more: is this man perfect for you, based upon your chart in synastry and your composite? He has quite the "bundle" chart with his planets in 4 signs and 3 houses, so a lot depends upon what is going on in your chart.

Raindrops said:

Is this fellow too good to be true?

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Probably.

Raindrops said:

What do you think about the venus/chiron aspect? (I am not good at reading chiron)

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Neither am I, in part because I ignore it. I don't see sufficient data on it and a lot of it I've found is conflicting. Ask me in 50 years.

Raindrops said:

I do notice that his moon and venus are in Scorpio -- their detriment.

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Um, yeah. Not good.

Raindrops said:

Do you think there is some part of his personality that I have not seen yet?

What's your opinion?

Click to expand...

I'd be wanting to talk to old girlfriends, like taking them out for a coffee and cheesecake.

With Moon in Scorpio, he's emotionally possessive. Venus in Scorpio will intensify his emotions. What is his outlet? I see no planets in the 4th, 8th or 12th Houses (Houses of Endings), and no squares, so does he internalize his emotions (not good)? Or does he save them up for a single outburst? Saturn in Scorpio, love and hate are very intense emotions. Moon conjunct Pluto can manifest itself as emotional and sexual obsessions.

Pluto sextiles his Sun, and that's good, but it's essentially negated by Moon sextile Sun and conjunct Pluto.

Mars semi-quares Uranus, and that suggests he might resent authority or find it restrictive (when applied to himself, but not others ie "do as I say, not as I do), and might find marriage restrictive too.

I also think that this person is very partner - oriented, and has intensing feelings. This is not bad, even his moon and Venus are in Scorpio. The matter is how is this chart buckling with yours. And what does your chart says about your inclination in relationships. As you say he is very nice person. Somewhere in the world are good and bad people for us, depending on our chart, our needs, not just of their charts. As about Chiron I never have looked at him also. In my synastries the rest of the charts had very speakable infos..Check the synastry, the composite, and of course your feelings!

Our synastry is very good --- Mars conj Venus by 0, Jupiter conjunct moon by 4, Venus trine sun/mercury, etc.

He has nice reviews from his friends too-- "He's a great guy, it takes quite a lot to get him mad (even when they pulled some pretty gross jokes on him ).

Moon conjunct Pluto: He does have intense emotions - and he is dead serious about commitment in a relationship. He is "obsessively devoted" -- in a good/fun way. The relationship is like his hobby. He can get obsessive habits, but the moment he decides that they are a bad habit, he drops them overnight (some stuff has really surprised me). He can change so many things about his personality (for the better) that his friends cant believe he's the same person.

I am just wondering: With Sun conjunct Neptune, do we have any way of knowing how that aspect will be expressed? -- He can be deceitful -or- he can be deceived by others.

Isn't the venus/uranus squares to the MC too distant to count (7 & 8 degrees)?

Just to follow up on the Scorpio motif....if people have their own planets or midpoints in Scorpio, or are otherwise strongly Plutonian, than emotional intensity is what they need and crave, too....not some Vanilla Lite astro-placements. It just depends upon who you are.

Neptune conjunct the sun also pulls in his DC and that strong Jupiter in Sag. He may have very idealistic ideas about his dream GF or wife. Sometimes Neptune can indicate a problem with drugs or alcohol--or wanting to rescue someone who has such problems But if it looks like he returns your interest, the best plan is always to take it one step at a time with your eyes wide open.

Chiron in Taurus suggests problems with self-esteem. Chiron in 12th house could mean those are buried deep. Also, Chiron in Taurus is about building things, whereas Venus in Scorpio is about letting go. Venus in Scorpio means I want it all from my relationship and I won't settle for anything less than perfection. Chiron might strive for stability, while Venus wants diversity. Some suggest Chiron to be the modern ruler of Virgo in which case that would make it ruler of IC. Maybe he subconsciously craves stability in relationships, one he could not get at home, while at the same time Venus lighting the fire to overemotional responses in relationships. On the other hand, Venus is in 6th house so probably that won't affect you much, as it might be more present at work. Obsession about daily habits is possible though.

Mercury retrograde means he double checks things before saying something (which would be somewhat surprising with Gemini on the ascendant). And I personally think Sun conjunct Neptune means deceptive way of self-expression. Maybe his actions appear quite different from what he perceives them to be. Neptune is also at a critical degree, probably signifying some intuitive hastiness which may manifest through the Sun. And not meaning to offend anyone, I know a person with Cap Sun and Sco Moon, and yes, they can be quite manipulative. Gemini on the ascendant (albeit at a quite late degree) also suggests chameleon-like qualities.

Hmm... very interesting.

He did say he never thought he was intelligent as a child. Without parental guidance, he never did his homework and therefore flunked out of many classes. Then, in high school, his test results were among the brightest in the school and when he found this out, he started doing homework and becoming confident.

He does REALLY want stability in relationships and only dates partners who want the same. He did say that he never had stability at home.

He probably can be manipulative, but I cannot think of any examples. I think I've seen a little bit of that... but cannot put my finger on it. I must definitely think about this one more.

He is quite chameleon-like and sometimes it makes me a little uncomfortable. Such as, he can be such a conservative person with me for a year and then with his friends (who are a tad more wild), he can morph into their hip group and pick up a few of their bad habits. Sometimes I wonder, "Which is the real you?" =P.

A Gemini ascendant can be pretty versatile. With his AS opposite Neptune, he has the capacity to be a shape-shifter.

A Capricorn Sun a shape shifter...I don't feel that is likely...more likely that the Neptune on the 7th is the mate who is the shapeshifter or who
has the addiction problem somewhere in the partners family..

With these house placements I see someone who is competetive and
loves and sports and recreation..to the point of obsession...this
guy plays HARD...Sex is even a game. But with Libra it would have
to be a FAIR fair or balanced type of play...Golf would be excellant.
The Sun in the 7th is the negotiator, the one who is willing to compromise
for the greater good of the realtionship...it will either play out
as the native or the type of person he attracts as a mate. He
will definetly feeel the need to consult with his mate on matters of
business.

The loaded 5th house is the house of entertainment (gambling) and children,
romance and creative ability and sports.
It is also a death of a parent which would be compounded by the Scorpio/Moon..
With Mars and Saturn here could indicate broken bones or a back back through these activities or a very controlled and precise type of sport..Saturn here could indicate a possilbe
profession in sports especially with Venus in the 6th house which represents profits from sports. Again golf would be a good choice.
Venus in the 6th could indicate a sibling in the military and with
Virgo in the 4th, there could be a military history to the family.

As far as the compatability to the questioner, they would
have to do a synastry and midpoints to see how it would go.
I can tell you this...with venus in the 6th...he loves a clean
natural type of beauty..probably perfers brunettes with the
Scorpio sign...smokey intense eyes?

Also Pluto started to transit his 7th house not too long ago.
He could be starting to have some intense relationships in either
business or romance. Possible issues of a legal nature with a partner, again either business or romance. He could be coming into contact
with powerful and intuitively gifted people. Powerful open
enemies. Old marriages, partnerships or close relationships can be
terminated and new ones begun. Also issues of jealousy.

My two cents worth on this.

There really isn't such a thing as 'a perfect chart'.Even people who have lots of trines and sextiles and no oppositions/squares go through their share of trouble every once in a while,when under harsh transits,and they often find no way of working through harsh issues.After much thinking,I've come to realise that's probably because they don't have the skills to cope with stressful situations.

This guy is very intense and possessive in his emotions.There is a great deal of wishful thinking about his relationships(Neptune on the DC);if you fail to meet his expectations,the darker side of his Scorpio Moon/Pluto may come up,and he may turn out to be very bitter and revengeful(Scorpio Moon/Pluto/Venus) and even cold(Capricorn Sun).

Not that he is a bad guy.He isn't.His Moon/Pluto conjunction in Scorpio give him an immense depth of feeling and the ability to get through to other people's emotional nature.Treat him right,and he will be understanding,loyal and generous in his acts(Jupiter in the6th in Sag sextile Mars in Libra).With his Venus opposing Chiron,he probably has a wound related to love;you must prove yourself worthy of his trust and help him mend his heart.Be faithful,loyal and honets and you will have a true diamond by your side;fail to do so,and things may get ugly...

Pallas, a Gemini ascendant can be very versatile and changeable. If you throw in Neptune sitting on that DC opposite AC, you add an energy that tends to dissolve what it touches, and that has a "now you see it, now you don't" quality. That AC/DC axis says an awful lot about how someone relates to other people, notably to an actual or prospective long-term GF. Moreover, as Claire19 noted, Neptune also conjuncts this man's sun, so even a Capricorn will feel its effects. When someone has a planet conjunct the sun, he will tend to identify with its energies.

The accidental ruler of this man's Capricorn sun is Jupiter, which is very strong in its own sign of Sagittarius, but also bound up in that sun/Neptune/DC configuration. I would read this, as others have above, as someone for whom relationships are very important, but whose innate optimism (Jupiter) can be tempered by disillusionment (Neptune opposite AC). If we follow the loop of house rulers we get Pluto and Venus in mutual reception, which suggests a lot of intensity in relationships, notably with that moon conjunct Pluto in the mix.

Most importantly, Raindrops described this man as "cameleon"-like: someone who wants a committed relationship but can then change his mind overnight. Where would you locate this trait in his chart?

BTW, gambling is a 5th house matter, but I have my sun, Mercury, and Venus in the 5th (throw in Mars with some house systems) and I actually dislike gambling and generally lose my pennies during friendly neighbourhood card games. I once read that, to see if anyone would be any good at gambling, look at the house location of their 5th house ruler. Sure enough, mine is Saturn (Dr. No) sitting in the 12th house of "self-undoing".

I once read that, to see if anyone would be any good at gambling, look at the house location of their 5th house ruler. Sure enough, mine is Saturn (Dr. No) sitting in the 12th house of "self-undoing".

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Ah, interesting. My 5th ruler is Mercury...and it's in the 12th! I, too, have an aversion to gambling...and lose money when I do!

Back to the thread...

AG

waybread said:

Pallas, a Gemini ascendant can be very versatile and changeable. If you throw in Neptune sitting on that DC opposite AC, you add an energy that tends to dissolve what it touches, and that has a "now you see it, now you don't" quality. That AC/DC axis says an awful lot about how someone relates to other people, notably to an actual or prospective long-term GF. Moreover, as Claire19 noted, Neptune also conjuncts this man's sun, so even a Capricorn will feel its effects. When someone has a planet conjunct the sun, he will tend to identify with its energies.

The accidental ruler of this man's Capricorn sun is Jupiter, which is very strong in its own sign of Sagittarius, but also bound up in that sun/Neptune/DC configuration. I would read this, as others have above, as someone for whom relationships are very important, but whose innate optimism (Jupiter) can be tempered by disillusionment (Neptune opposite AC). If we follow the loop of house rulers we get Pluto and Venus in mutual reception, which suggests a lot of intensity in relationships, notably with that moon conjunct Pluto in the mix.

Most importantly, Raindrops described this man as "cameleon"-like: someone who wants a committed relationship but can then change his mind overnight. Where would you locate this trait in his chart?

BTW, gambling is a 5th house matter, but I have my sun, Mercury, and Venus in the 5th (throw in Mars with some house systems) and I actually dislike gambling and generally lose my pennies during friendly neighbourhood card games. I once read that, to see if anyone would be any good at gambling, look at the house location of their 5th house ruler. Sure enough, mine is Saturn (Dr. No) sitting in the 12th house of "self-undoing".

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Waybread -
He has Venus as fifth house ruler here...venus usually relates to what
we love and want to be and act out. I think that he has a strong need
for the 5th house aspects because of this, even with Saturn in that
house.

Change of "mind" would be a 3rd house indication ...
Sun is the ruler of 3rd intercepted by Virgo..Sun in the house of Libra/difficulty making choices, conjunct mercury (possibly isssues with confilcting egos)...

Uranus in the 6th house (virgo's house), could be an innovator but also can indicate the inability to accept routine (wanting that change through analysis and reasoning). Could cause a nervous disorder as a health issue.

Sun conjunct Neptune...this would indicate mental confusion and
and difficult identity issue or that he is of two minds (Gemini Asc). This aspect can indicate "a visionary" also...not necessarily the deciever. Depends
on how he uses the aspect...I would be more inclined with the deception
should it be a square or opposition.

I do agree with you about no perfect chart and with no squares to
provide challenges when the transits do hit he could have the
melt down you indicated...

Nice discussing this chart with you...I think we both brought our own
insights...we may not agree with everthing, but it is great talking
with someone about these things...good classroom!

Yes, he is very competitive when it comes to work (or any topic that he feels good enough to complete in). But this certainly doesnt carry over to sports or physical endurance, LOL (mars in Libra, perhaps? )

He definitely becomes upset if he thinks any girl is not being treated right (he'll even become nauseous at the thought of it!).

As for the death of a parent (with moon/pluto in Scorpio) - he raised himself completely. Parents were never home. They'd come home once every 2-3 weeks and he would live with friends.

Venus in the 6th - his siblings are female - and one of them is a nurse.

As for pluto transiting his 7th house - he has just made a powerful friend who opted to put him through school. And at this school, he should meet very intelligent/gifted friends who might also go on to very good positions when they graduate.

Yes, he is QUITE possessive and intense. He prefers to do everything with me (which is fine with me - we get along very well) and so we get everything accomplished together.

One thing does frighten me and that is the Scorpio Moon/Venus - if the relationship falls apart, I know it will turn from love to hate. He has remarked that ones a relationship dies, it is dead (cheerful thought! =P). So I do sense some callousness in his nature.

But it takes a mountain of things to get him upset - and he only gets upset if he senses you are REALLY going out of your way to hurt him -or- that you are cheating on him. Other than that, he's terribly patient.

Although he is "cameleon"-like when blending in with friends or fads, his taste for a steady/committed relationship definitely does not change. He is VERY committed to 1 person.

----> He is extremely successful when it comes to jobs. His second job out of high school he roughly made 70k from being self-taught. I've often thought that is from the Moon/Sun trining/sextiling the MC along with the MC's ruler sextiling the MC. Or perhaps because Jup in Sagitarius is on his Descendant?

Don't forget a chart represents a lot of different parts to a persons life and
different times as well.
Some of the things I have mentioned may not happen until later in life.
Not everything happens all at once, he is still young yet.

But thanks for the feed back on my reading...
ps Venus/6th house is not only the military but the health house
so the Nursing fits for his sister.

Where is Ceres in the chart?..should show the family abandonment
aspect of his life and how he relates to nuturing both giving and
receiving.

So, for the death of a parent part, it would probably represent the mother since it involves the moon? I could see that hurting him quite a bit.

His Ceres is on the Midheaven - 0.35 degrees of Pisces - sitting at the very end of the 9th House... Trining the Moon and Pluto... Sextiling Neptune... and forming a T-Square between that Venus/Chiron Opposition.

Wow, I never noticed the T-Square before. But the topic of family nurturing is QUITE an issue in his life. A few years ago, he broke off all contact with his family. I met them myself and they were so concerned with themselves that they never even gave him a birthday cake for any of his birthdays (or were even home).

Since cutting them off, the mother has done a 180 degree turn and says she'll never let him live peacefully until he returns to the family (which has led to him filing police reports...). She wants him there... but she really isnt there herself - off enjoying herself with friends and stuff. The parental figures are confusing and strange, I think.

About the Pluto/Moon thing - he already treats family as if they do not exist. When I think of the death of a parent, could it also indicate that he just gets sick of them and cuts them off? That is what he did.

It could be then... that Venus is Scorpio is showing overemotional responses to a perceived sense of abandonment in relationships. You said he was quite possesive, well, he will be if he perceives that there's any chance that you'll leave him (much what his mother did). "Leave" does not only point to physical distance but emotional distance as well - like you said his mother may be physically present but emotionally distant. It will take him a while to break off the habit to overreact, but if you're patient enough (and that's not as easy as it sounds), it will work in the end.

Raindrops said:

So, for the death of a parent part, it would probably represent the mother since it involves the moon? I could see that hurting him quite a bit.

About the Pluto/Moon thing - he already treats family as if they do not exist. When I think of the death of a parent, could it also indicate that he just gets sick of them and cuts them off? That is what he did.

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Remeber the moon is how HE sees her (understand I'm not saying that she actually isn't that way, but the he percieves her that way and she may well act that way)...for example a family with four children having different
moons will see that mother in 4 different ways...one may find her criticial (virgo moon), protective but nurturing (cancer moon), detached and teach independance (aquarius moon) and so forth. With a Scorpio moon, she
is considered selfish, controlling, and secretive.
The death can be a psycological death...a separation, and ending.

Now consider the Ceres position in Pisces - relates best to compassion.
Nurturance is expressed through alleviating the suffering of others. Self-
acceptance is based upon the ability to serve other selflessly without
expecting anything in return.
Trining the Moon he has a great need to be needed by others, especially
the mother, which she never gave him, but is now saying that he has
to be with her. Love was only given by the mother conditionally, based
on his performance or his achievements. If he couldn't live up to her or the parental expectations, he would feel either rejected or abandoned (which in this case actually happened).
Ceres is the godess who's daughter was Persephone, who was taken
by Pluto to the underworld..it is the story of abduction of a daughter
and the grief of Ceres and her suffering of her loss, and her search for
reunion with her child...
Is there any possiblity that this young man has this story playing out
somewhere in his life...was there a sister to died or was lost?
But notice now the parent wants the reunion.

The books say that your most powerful planet is the highest one in
the chart...with Ceres that close to his MC..it actually gets pulled
into the 10th for influence...This is little asteroid has a critical
impact on him...Interesting about the birthday cake...Ceres is
the goddess of agriculture, food and grains and the harvest >>>

Pallas