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  #1  
Unread 06-12-2019, 05:47 PM
Teacake Teacake is offline
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Could someone help me to understand my Grand Trine please?

Hello everyone,

could some one help me to understand my grand trine please. Thanks
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  #2  
Unread 06-12-2019, 06:01 PM
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Moondancing Moondancing is offline
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Re: Could someone help me to understand my Grand Trine please?

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Originally Posted by Teacake View Post
Hello everyone,

could some one help me to understand my grand trine please. Thanks
Put together some key words and see if you can make an interpretation. What ideas do you have for the meaning of this configuration? Some will help correct or expand on your thoughts.

Moon Dance
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Unread 06-12-2019, 06:50 PM
Teacake Teacake is offline
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Re: Could someone help me to understand my Grand Trine please?

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Originally Posted by Moondancing View Post
Put together some key words and see if you can make an interpretation. What ideas do you have for the meaning of this configuration? Some will help correct or expand on your thoughts.

Moon Dance
Hi Moon Dance,

thank you kindly for your reply, it's much appreciated.

What I get from it, is there is a flow of energy between knowledge, resourcefulness/inventiveness in a broad way and my wounds pertaining to relationships with others and healing my wounds in regards to relationships with others. This energy can be put out into the world through a creative endeavour which could help not only heal myself but others?

Sorry I don't think that makes much sense, I sometimes have trouble putting it altogether in order to make sense of it.

Thank you for the encouragement, using key words can really help to construct a meaning.

Teacake
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  #4  
Unread 06-12-2019, 07:44 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Could someone help me to understand my Grand Trine please?

I don't use Chiron, so don't see a grand trine. But that aside...

The trine is in Air. Disregarding the planets involved for the time being, what we have is an Air emphasis. Preponderances, formations (this trine) and such things trump their component elements (the planets); they are deeper, more fundamental.

The Elements are primarily subjective in nature; the Qualities are objective, show how we meet the outer world.

So the Element Air intellectualizes; life is seen through abstraction, idealization. The Elements have to do with how we perceive the world. Reason and logic are enshrined. Air is also relationships. It is social. These ideas can be carried further. Air is communication in all forms.

Grand trines, while rolling along in their easy and generous momentum, can also work to our detriment. In simplest terms, we can get into a rut. We may fail to expend the necessary energy to fully meet challenges because of reliance on the trines. And so on.

To understand the trine aspect more fully, I have found it useful to contemplate the Lagrangian Points L4 and L5 ("points" or zones of null gravity - gravitational equilibrium). These points show how trines work in the real world and showcase the wisdom of the ancients, who knew about the number 3.

Preponderance is a very powerful and pervasive force in a horoscope. You do not have an Air preponderance. You don't even have a grand trine (in my view). But if you want to persist in insisting you are the proud owner of a quick and versatile grand trine in Air....

Notice that this purported grand trine falls not only in the signs of Air, but in the airy houses as well. Not just Essential, but Accidental or circumstantial emphasis as well; the essential and inherent nature (Air signs) will operate largely within circumstances or through experiences cooperative with that nature. Relationships are featured (7th house origin of the house triad).

Last edited by greybeard; 06-12-2019 at 08:05 PM.
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  #5  
Unread 06-12-2019, 08:07 PM
Teacake Teacake is offline
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Re: Could someone help me to understand my Grand Trine please?

Hi Thanks for your reply

I don't use Chiron, so don't see a grand trine. But that aside...

Could you tell me why you don't use Chiron?

The trine is in Air. Disregarding the planets involved for the time being, what we have is an Air emphasis. Preponderances, formations (this trine) and such things trump their component elements (the planets); they are deeper, more fundamental.

The Elements are primarily subjective in nature; the Qualities are objective, show how we meet the outer world.

So the Element Air intellectualizes; life is seen through abstraction, idealization. The Elements have to do with how we perceive the world. Reason and logic are enshrined. Air is also relationships. It is social. These ideas can be carried further. Air is communication in all forms.



Grand trines, while rolling along in their easy and generous momentum, can also work to our detriment. In simplest terms, we can get into a rut. We may fail to expend the necessary energy to fully meet challenges because of reliance on the trines. And so on.
I have read this before about the reliance on trines and believe it does appear that way for me.


To understand the trine aspect more fully, I have found it useful to contemplate the Lagrangian Points L4 and L5 ("points" or zones of null gravity - gravitational equilibrium). These points show how trines work in the real world and showcase the wisdom of the ancients, who knew about the number 3.[/QUOTE]

Thanks I will look into this as I have never heard of this before
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Unread 06-12-2019, 08:11 PM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Could someone help me to understand my Grand Trine please?

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Originally Posted by Teacake View Post
Hi Moon Dance,

thank you kindly for your reply, it's much appreciated.

What I get from it, is there is a flow of energy between knowledge, resourcefulness/inventiveness in a broad way and my wounds pertaining to relationships with others and healing my wounds in regards to relationships with others. This energy can be put out into the world through a creative endeavour which could help not only heal myself but others?

Sorry I don't think that makes much sense, I sometimes have trouble putting it altogether in order to make sense of it.

Thank you for the encouragement, using key words can really help to construct a meaning.

Teacake
Teacake,

I am also born on 10/23. But in 1952 so you are born in my daughter's generation. lol

My Sun is @ 0Scorpio but I do have both Libra and Scorpio planets, as you do. And my Mercury is @ 18 Scorpio, like yours.

The cusp of Libra/Scorpio is a very special place, in my opinion. It is the Mars/Venus zone and it creates an intensity of emotion and passion and power that can be overwhelming.


Your Air Grand Trine may help you rise above the emotional depths and possible ruts that the Sun/Pluto conjunction can drag you into.

Spiritually and philosophically you can imagine and rationalise why the universe is what it is, and why we go through what we go through, and why we should persevere, in spite of our pain. You could be a comforting speaker and counsellor and therapist because you can empathise so completely, with your Chiron in the 7th. You may instantly know the right words, the right things to say to make others feel comfortable and ease their pain.

But an angular Venus square Neptune---that is often Unrequited Love. Many are drawn to your grace and gentle nature. But not always the ones that you love. They may be blind to your beauty.

Last edited by katydid; 06-12-2019 at 08:22 PM.
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Unread 06-12-2019, 08:15 PM
Teacake Teacake is offline
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Re: Could someone help me to understand my Grand Trine please?

Preponderance is a very powerful and pervasive force in a horoscope. You do not have an Air preponderance. You don't even have a grand trine (in my view). But if you want to persist in insisting you are the proud owner of a quick and versatile grand trine in Air....

Its not a case of insisting but rather not knowing what it all means. But you have explicitly made clear that in your opinion it is not a grand trine and as your experience outweighs my own on the subject I'm inclined to take on board what you have said
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Unread 06-12-2019, 08:21 PM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Could someone help me to understand my Grand Trine please?

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Originally Posted by Teacake View Post
Preponderance is a very powerful and pervasive force in a horoscope. You do not have an Air preponderance. You don't even have a grand trine (in my view). But if you want to persist in insisting you are the proud owner of a quick and versatile grand trine in Air....

Its not a case of insisting but rather not knowing what it all means. But you have explicitly made clear that in your opinion it is not a grand trine and as your experience outweighs my own on the subject I'm inclined to take on board what you have said
There are astrologers who choose to use Chiron in Grand Trines. Many of the younger Modern Astrologers use Chiron in configurations. Many don't.

It is up to you to decide if it works in your chart or it doesn't.
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  #9  
Unread 06-12-2019, 08:29 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Could someone help me to understand my Grand Trine please?

I live in the US state of Idaho, where our license plates say World Famous Potatoes. Chiron is a 200 mile long potato, elongated and irregular in shape. It does not even dream of hydrostatic equilibrium.

It occupies an elongate orbit connecting the orbits of Saturn and Uranus. The orbit is highly unstable and deteriorating.

The astrological significance of Chiron appears to me to have been wholly derived from its fortuitous christening. I use meanings for planets based not on name and myth, but on orbital and other characteristics. I do not ignore myth, but use it to supplement understanding. Based on its orbital and other characteristics I would give Chiron very different qualities from those commonly used.

And it is simply unnecessary. And I believe undue emphasis is often given to Chiron.
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Unread 06-12-2019, 08:30 PM
Teacake Teacake is offline
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Re: Could someone help me to understand my Grand Trine please?

Hi Kaydid,

That's great its good to meet someone else born on the same day.


The cusp of Libra/Scorpio is a very special place, in my opinion. It is the Mars/Venus zone and it creates an intensity of emotion and passion and power that can be overwhelming.

I can definitely resonate with intensity in those areas

Your Air Grand Trine may help you rise above the emotional depths and possible ruts that the Sun/Pluto conjunction can drag you into.

I'm not actually sure if this a grand trine now after speaking with Greybeard. It amazing how much I still have to learn, but its all part of peeling the onion and trying to figure it all out, if indeed it can be

Spiritually and philosophically you can imagine and rationalise why the universe is what it is, and why we go through what we go through, and why we should persevere, in spite of our pain. You could be a comforting speaker and counsellor and therapist because you can empathise so completely, with your Chiron in the 7th. You may instantly know the right words, the right things to say to make others feel comfortable and ease their pain.

I do believe this to be true, i love talking to and comforting others and helping others in times of pain

But an angular Venus square Neptune---that is often Unrequited Love. Many are drawn to your grace and gentle nature. But not always the ones that you love. They may be blind to your beauty. [/QUOTE]

I can't say I resonate with this interpretation too much, I have not had a lot of experience of Unrequited Love, but then again I have been in a relationship with someone for 11 years.

Thanks
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  #11  
Unread 06-12-2019, 08:34 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post
There are astrologers who choose to use Chiron in Grand Trines. Many of the younger Modern Astrologers use Chiron in configurations. Many don't.

It is up to you to decide if it works in your chart or it doesn't.
Absolutely.
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Unread 06-12-2019, 08:41 PM
Teacake Teacake is offline
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Re: Could someone help me to understand my Grand Trine please?

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
I live in the US state of Idaho, where our license plates say World Famous Potatoes. Chiron is a 200 mile long potato, elongated and irregular in shape. It does not even dream of hydrostatic equilibrium.

It occupies an elongate orbit connecting the orbits of Saturn and Uranus. The orbit is highly unstable and deteriorating.

The astrological significance of Chiron appears to me to have been wholly derived from its fortuitous christening. I use meanings for planets based not on name and myth, but on orbital and other characteristics. I do not ignore myth, but use it to supplement understanding. Based on its orbital and other characteristics I would give Chiron very different qualities from those commonly used.

And it is simply unnecessary. And I believe undue emphasis is often given to Chiron.
Ah I see, I can appreciate your logic, it makes a lot of sense, as much as I'm a fan of potatoes. Could you tell me what qualities you do ascribe to Chiron?
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Unread 06-12-2019, 08:42 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Could someone help me to understand my Grand Trine please?

Look. I don't use Chiron; no grand trine. But I gave you information as if there were a grand trine. So you can have a grand trine.

An astrologer is an interpreter, an artist. And we limit our palettes, we choose the tools we will use to the exclusion of others.
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Unread 06-12-2019, 08:51 PM
Teacake Teacake is offline
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Re: Could someone help me to understand my Grand Trine please?

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Look. I don't use Chiron; no grand trine. But I gave you information as if there were a grand trine. So you can have a grand trine.

An astrologer is an interpreter, an artist. And we limit our palettes, we choose the tools we will use to the exclusion of others.
I can understand that and can appreciate you taking the time to go beyond your palette. You have opened my mind up to looking at it from a different point of view, like so many things with astrology there is not a definite answers, but It's always good to look at things from many different perspectives, so thank you.
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Unread 06-12-2019, 08:59 PM
Teacake Teacake is offline
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Re: Could someone help me to understand my Grand Trine please?

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Originally Posted by katydid View Post
There are astrologers who choose to use Chiron in Grand Trines. Many of the younger Modern Astrologers use Chiron in configurations. Many don't.

It is up to you to decide if it works in your chart or it doesn't.

I find situation like this arise in astrology quite often, for example house systems, I ended up using the system that just felt right as others did not make sense to me or my life. But with this "configuration" I really need to learn more before I know if it works in my chart or not. But you are definitely right its all a matter of personal interpretation.
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Unread 06-13-2019, 01:49 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Could someone help me to understand my Grand Trine please?

It works in your chart. Always does. Don't be confused by all the different approaches and methods in astrology. Adopt methods that make sense to you and feel comfortable. Keep it simple early on.
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Unread 06-13-2019, 07:59 AM
Teacake Teacake is offline
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Re: Could someone help me to understand my Grand Trine please?

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
It works in your chart. Always does. Don't be confused by all the different approaches and methods in astrology. Adopt methods that make sense to you and feel comfortable. Keep it simple early on.
Thanks Greybeard, I appreciate your honesty and wisdom. I shall try to keep it as simple as possible as I have a tendencies to overcomplicate.
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Unread 06-13-2019, 01:51 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Could someone help me to understand my Grand Trine please?

Learn to see the horoscope as an organic whole rather than a collection of pieces. People are not collections of spare parts, but organic wholes.
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Unread 06-13-2019, 02:16 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Could someone help me to understand my Grand Trine please?

I don't ascribe any qualities to Chiron. But if I did...

Its orbit is located between Saturn and Uranus. It comes barely inside Saturn's path, then barely outside Uranus'. So, it connects the conventional with the outre. We could check to see in which direction our flying spud was headed (toward IN or toward OUT) and refine our interpretation.

I haven't thought about Chiron all that much, so let's use Pluto instead. You can apply the same ideas to Chiron.

When Pluto was in Scorpio, back in the 80s & 90s, it was inside the orbit of Neptune, where it spends about 20 years during each of its 248 year cycles; the rest of the time Pluto is in "deep space", outside Neptune's orbit. Pluto is currently "outbound", a solitary pilgrim traveling into the dark unknown.

So Pluto takes us "beyond"...it symbolizes "Transcendence", which is "going beyond". It is "outside the law". He lives in the dark and lonely, solitary...secretive (we can't see Pluto very well).

Pluto is the only planet which passes over each and every degree of the zodiac three times during its passage. He's implacable, thorough-going, relentless.

Get the idea? Jupiter is the biggest planet by far. He rules elephants and whales and my pot belly.

Mercury circles the Sun every 88 days. Mercury is quick and agile, and restless.

Mars is seen in the night sky as a rusty-red body. He rules the color red, all things red...blood, hot iron, me when I'm embarrassed or angry. His orbit lies just outside Earth's; Mars shows how we externalize, deal with the outer world. Venus internalizes, assimilates...internal orbit.

Etc.

Astrology is a man-made art. We take facts and transmute them into symbols. The signs do not exist in reality; we invented them. (Neither do the constellations).

Today Sun opposes Jupiter. So, shortly after sunset, look into the southeast and watch Jupiter for a while. Think about what you see. Be inspired. When Jupiter reaches the western horizon it wii be sunup.

Facing south, Sun will be to your left, Jupiter your right. You can't see them both at the same time...the opposition. One comes up, the other goes down.

Young astrologers, the computer kids, do not know how to erect a horoscope. YEARS AGO, I took a student outside one night and asked her to point out the MC. I think she's still out there looking for it. Learn to erect charts "by hand"; it will teach you so much. And spend some time watching the night sky.

Last edited by greybeard; 06-13-2019 at 03:02 PM.
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  #20  
Unread 06-13-2019, 04:15 PM
Teacake Teacake is offline
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Re: Could someone help me to understand my Grand Trine please?

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Learn to see the horoscope as an organic whole rather than a collection of pieces. People are not collections of spare parts, but organic wholes.
I hope I can learn to do this with my chart
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Unread 06-13-2019, 04:47 PM
Teacake Teacake is offline
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Re: Could someone help me to understand my Grand Trine please?

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
I don't ascribe any qualities to Chiron. But if I did...

Its orbit is located between Saturn and Uranus. It comes barely inside Saturn's path, then barely outside Uranus'. So, it connects the conventional with the outre. We could check to see in which direction our flying spud was headed (toward IN or toward OUT) and refine our interpretation.

I haven't thought about Chiron all that much, so let's use Pluto instead. You can apply the same ideas to Chiron.

When Pluto was in Scorpio, back in the 80s & 90s, it was inside the orbit of Neptune, where it spends about 20 years during each of its 248 year cycles; the rest of the time Pluto is in "deep space", outside Neptune's orbit. Pluto is currently "outbound", a solitary pilgrim traveling into the dark unknown.

So Pluto takes us "beyond"...it symbolizes "Transcendence", which is "going beyond". It is "outside the law". He lives in the dark and lonely, solitary...secretive (we can't see Pluto very well).

Pluto is the only planet which passes over each and every degree of the zodiac three times during its passage. He's implacable, thorough-going, relentless.

Get the idea? Jupiter is the biggest planet by far. He rules elephants and whales and my pot belly.

Mercury circles the Sun every 88 days. Mercury is quick and agile, and restless.

Mars is seen in the night sky as a rusty-red body. He rules the color red, all things red...blood, hot iron, me when I'm embarrassed or angry. His orbit lies just outside Earth's; Mars shows how we externalize, deal with the outer world. Venus internalizes, assimilates...internal orbit.

Etc.

Astrology is a man-made art. We take facts and transmute them into symbols. The signs do not exist in reality; we invented them. (Neither do the constellations).

Today Sun opposes Jupiter. So, shortly after sunset, look into the southeast and watch Jupiter for a while. Think about what you see. Be inspired. When Jupiter reaches the western horizon it wii be sunup.

Facing south, Sun will be to your left, Jupiter your right. You can't see them both at the same time...the opposition. One comes up, the other goes down.

Young astrologers, the computer kids, do not know how to erect a horoscope. YEARS AGO, I took a student outside one night and asked her to point out the MC. I think she's still out there looking for it. Learn to erect charts "by hand"; it will teach you so much. And spend some time watching the night sky.
Thanks for the advice. I think with my generation and those after, we are so used to having things at our fingertips and having information available quickly that it can be easy to overlook learning opportunities. I find it fascinating how you describe astrology. I do have a real thirst to learn as much as I can about astrology simply because I really find enjoyment it in. I will definitely have a look into erecting charts by hand and take time to contemplate the night sky. How long have you studied astrology?
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Unread 06-13-2019, 10:25 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacake View Post
Thanks for the advice. I think with my generation and those after, we are so used to having things at our fingertips and having information available quickly that it can be easy to overlook learning opportunities. I find it fascinating how you describe astrology. I do have a real thirst to learn as much as I can about astrology simply because I really find enjoyment it in. I will definitely have a look into erecting charts by hand and take time to contemplate the night sky. How long have you studied astrology?
Since June 72.
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  #23  
Unread 06-13-2019, 11:12 PM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Could someone help me to understand my Grand Trine please?

I agree with Greybeard. Back in the day we had to do the math ourselves to figure out where the planets and angles were. It took a lot of work and research to even do that.

Then we had to draw up each chart. But doing all of that gave the astrologer a lot of time to ponder the meaning behind that nativity. By the time the client arrived, there were many hours of work put in calculating and putting their chart together, then drawing it up.

That part of it was like a meditation. Even today, if I am doing an in-depth look at a chart, I will draw it up myself, drawing in each aspect, one by one, like a meditation and it helps to piece the specifics into a larger cohesive picture.
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Unread 06-13-2019, 11:19 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Could someone help me to understand my Grand Trine please?

True. Even more, erecting charts leads to greater understanding of the heavens.
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Unread 06-13-2019, 11:26 PM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Could someone help me to understand my Grand Trine please?

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True. Even more, erecting charts leads to greater understanding of the heavens.
As Above, So Below.
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