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Natal Astrology A place to discuss yours and others' birth charts (after you post your own birth chart interpretation). Includes psychological and relocation astrology, houses, aspects, and planetary dignity and debility.


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  #1  
Unread 06-11-2019, 12:11 AM
YonyGursho YonyGursho is offline
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Saturn vs midheaven

What the difference?

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  #2  
Unread 06-11-2019, 12:34 AM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Saturn vs midheaven

House cusps and planets are different things.

Planets=how we express drives that humans have in common, or how we put energy into specific actions.

Saturn= caution, fear, restriction, discipline, structure, reality, responsibility, authority

The Midheaven, otherwise known as the Medium Coeli or MC, is the highest point in a birth chart. It is a point in the chart, not a planet. 10th house=Occupation and Calling, Parental Authority, Government/Outer World/Public Reputation

Houses show us where planet’s energies operate. Each represents different “departments” in our lives.

So planets and Houses are different animals.
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  #3  
Unread 06-11-2019, 01:20 AM
YonyGursho YonyGursho is offline
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Re: Saturn vs midheaven

Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post
House cusps and planets are different things.

Planets=how we express drives that humans have in common, or how we put energy into specific actions.

Saturn= caution, fear, restriction, discipline, structure, reality, responsibility, authority

The Midheaven, otherwise known as the Medium Coeli or MC, is the highest point in a birth chart. It is a point in the chart, not a planet. 10th house=Occupation and Calling, Parental Authority, Government/Outer World/Public Reputation

Houses show us where planet’s energies operate. Each represents different “departments” in our lives.

So planets and Houses are different animals.
So natal saturn is different from MC because natal saturn is our disciplinary nature, whereas MC is our disciplinary area of life.

Natal Saturn = our disciplinary ENERGY

MC = the area of our life revolving around discipline. This is reflected in that we can have natal planets IN our MC/10th house. Hence that specific natal planet/natal energy is devoted to that particular AREA of life.

Still, BOTH represent ones disciplinary behavior. Which is why I dont see how they are very different.

Last edited by YonyGursho; 06-11-2019 at 01:25 AM.
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  #4  
Unread 06-11-2019, 03:27 AM
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waybread waybread is offline
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Re: Saturn vs midheaven

Modern astrology often conflates signs and houses, whereby the 10th planet = the 10th sign. By extension, Saturn as the ruler of the 10th sign should be a career indicator. I think this is a mistake, because planets and signs intrinsically mean very different things, as Katydid has indicated.

Saturn rules all kinds of major disappointments. The "bad" Saturn usually shows where and how we feel inadequate and not good-enough. But Saturn also rules highly valuable qualities like self-discipline, hard work, and deferred gratification. The "good" Saturn is extremely pragmatic.

Saturn has all kinds of rulerships ranging from agriculture to the mineral zinc.

Traditionally the 10th house cusp indicated your vocation, in the sense of your calling in life; as well as your public image. It has additional meanings in other branches of astrology.
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  #5  
Unread 06-11-2019, 01:57 PM
YonyGursho YonyGursho is offline
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Re: Saturn vs midheaven

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Modern astrology often conflates signs and houses, whereby the 10th planet = the 10th sign. By extension, Saturn as the ruler of the 10th sign should be a career indicator. I think this is a mistake, because planets and signs intrinsically mean very different things, as Katydid has indicated.

Saturn rules all kinds of major disappointments. The "bad" Saturn usually shows where and how we feel inadequate and not good-enough. But Saturn also rules highly valuable qualities like self-discipline, hard work, and deferred gratification. The "good" Saturn is extremely pragmatic.

Saturn has all kinds of rulerships ranging from agriculture to the mineral zinc.

Traditionally the 10th house cusp indicated your vocation, in the sense of your calling in life; as well as your public image. It has additional meanings in other branches of astrology.
Do you not agree that both MC and natal saturn are indicators of one's disciplinary nature and work ethic?

If you agree, then I dont see why you wont agree that both are extremely similar.
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  #6  
Unread 06-11-2019, 06:57 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Saturn vs midheaven

Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post


House cusps and planets are different things.

The Midheaven, otherwise known as the Medium Coeli or MC, is the highest point in a birth chart. It is a point in the chart, not a planet. 10th house=Occupation and Calling, Parental Authority, Government/Outer World/Public Reputation

So planets and Houses are different animals.
That's very clear
however
you misunderstood
and conflated natal Saturn with the MC

Quote:
Originally Posted by YonyGursho View Post

So natal saturn is different from MC
because natal saturn is our disciplinary nature,
whereas MC is our disciplinary area of life.
WRONG

fact is

natal Saturn is different from MC
because

SATURN = A PLANET

and

MC = AN ANGLE

Quote:
Originally Posted by YonyGursho View Post

Natal Saturn = our disciplinary ENERGY
MC = the area of our life revolving around discipline.
since MC = an ANGLE - the following is information on ANGLES
- The angles are the ascendant, descendant, midheaven

and Imum Coeli aka 'lower midheaven'.
These four angles mark the cusps of the 1st, 7th, 10th and 4th houses
and

are also referred to as 'cardinal points'.
Planets close to angles are very prominent in their effects.
hence
planets may be CLOSE TO angles
but NOT IN angles

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

Saturn completes 2 sidereal cycles and 57 synodic cycles with 59 years.
It has retreating arcs of 7 degrees for 140 days.


Saturn is cooling and moderately drying, malefic, masculine and diurnal. Phainon makes those born under him dark-skinned, robust, black-haired, curly-haired, hairy-chested, and with eyes of moderate size, middling stature, having excess of cold and moist when morning rising, and dark, slender, small, straight-haired, with little bodily hair, rather graceful, black-eyed, having excess of cold and dry when evening rising, and in general, annoying, concealing, avaricious, ignorant, consistent, reserved, petty, malicious, having many anxieties, throwing themselves down, fond of solitude, deceitful, downcast, hypocritical, squalid, clothed in black, deviant, importunate, sullen and miserable. Saturn controls depressions and sluggishness, obstacles in business, interminable lawsuits, subversion of action, secrets, restraints, imprisonment, grief, accusations, tears, being orphaned, captivity, haunting, farmers, gardeners, workers of property, managers, seafaring and waterside trades, tax collectors, the elders, violent action, guardianship, great reputation, notable ranks, lands, administration of that which belongs to others, fathership of the children of others, bachelors, widows, childlessness, violent deaths by water, strangulation, dysentery, falling on the face, injuries and lower respiratory infections, the skeletal system, the lymphatic system and the immune system, building materials like wood and stone, lead, dark colours and astringent tastes. It chronocrator over late old age up to death.

Bibliography:
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos. William Heinmann, London. Retrieved from http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...blos/home.html
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. Retrieved from https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s%20entire.pdf
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  #7  
Unread 06-11-2019, 07:03 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Saturn vs midheaven

Quote:
Originally Posted by YonyGursho View Post


This is reflected in that we can have natal planets IN our MC/10th house.
WRONG
we cannot have natal planet IN our MC
we can only have natal planets CLOSE TO our MC

in contrast
we can have natal planets in our 10th HOUSE


clearly
as a beginner, you need to learn
the clear difference between MC and 10th house

i.e.
Most students are aware that houses are defined as angular = 1st, 4th, 7th & 10th
succeedent = 2nd, 5th, 8th, & 11th
and
cadent = 3rd, 6th, 9th & 12th

as shown in the diagram below




The houses are not all equal in strength and power.
If a planet is located in an angular house, it is much more forceful in its effects
than it would be in a cadent house


On page 48 of Christian Astrology William Lilly writes:
The angles are most powerful
the succeedents are next in virtue
the cadents poor, and of little efficacy:

the succeedent houses follow the angles
the cadents come next [after] the succeedents.


In force and virtue they stand so in order:

1 10 7 4 11 5 9 3 2 8 6 12
The meaning whereof is this
that two planets equally dignified
the one in the Ascendant, the other in the tenth house
you shall judge the planet in the Ascendant

somewhat of more power to effect what he is significator of
than he that is in the tenth:

do so in the rest as they stand in order
remembering that planets in angles do more forcibly show their effects
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  #8  
Unread 06-11-2019, 07:06 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Saturn vs midheaven

Quote:
Originally Posted by YonyGursho View Post

Hence that specific natal planet/natal energy
is devoted to that particular AREA of life.
Still, BOTH represent ones disciplinary behavior.
Which is why I dont see how they are very different.
that is because
you have failed to comprehend
is
that the MC is NOT a PLANET

AND FURTHERMORE
you have also failed to comprehend that the MC is an ANGLE
but since ours is an astrological learning forum
take your time to read over these posts and learn
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  #9  
Unread 06-11-2019, 07:20 PM
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Re: Saturn vs midheaven

Quote:
Originally Posted by YonyGursho View Post

Do you not agree
that both MC
and
natal saturn
are indicators of one's disciplinary nature and work ethic?
MC = a powerful ANGLE of any natal chart
and
PLANETS that are CLOSE TO the MC
or any one of the four angles
are very prominent in their effects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YonyGursho View Post

If you agree,
then

I
dont see why
you wont agree that both are extremely similar.
fact is
MC is not a PLANET
SATURN is a planet
that's the difference
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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