Does astrology make humans programmed souls?

I was going to originally ask about what astrology is better. The western tropical or the vedic. But I will read other topics on that. I wanted to logically conclude astrology is so accurate it's insane that obviously there can't be free will. Now I don't know how this ties in to reincarnation.. But all I know it astrology works and I am wise to know that just because I can't explain how it works, doesn't mean that it doesn't work.
 

Elra

Active member
Hi Mark, I am one Astrologer who does not believe that the commonly understood notion of 'free will' exists. I am aware im in the minority when it comes to taking this view but after the countless number of readings ive done for people, fate lines and destiny is all i see. There is the energy of 'will' but it's certainly not 'free'. All the best with your journeying here on planet Earth. Elra.

I was going to originally ask about what astrology is better. The western tropical or the vedic. But I will read other topics on that. I wanted to logically conclude astrology is so accurate it's insane that obviously there can't be free will. Now I don't know how this ties in to reincarnation.. But all I know it astrology works and I am wise to know that just because I can't explain how it works, doesn't mean that it doesn't work.
 
Hi Mark, I am one Astrologer who does not believe that the commonly understood notion of 'free will' exists. I am aware im in the minority when it comes to taking this view but after the countless number of readings ive done for people, fate lines and destiny is all i see. There is the energy of 'will' but it's certainly not 'free'. All the best with your journeying here on planet Earth. Elra.

I am trying to find the proper astrology to use. I know from my readings that the vedic astrology is superior to the tropical western zodiac. However I was born on 3/21/1993 and in the vedic I'm a pisces while in the tropical I'm an aries. I know I'm a pisces, but it seems there's some aries residue in my life.
I am trying to contact the vital records to get my actual time of birth and so far it's a pain.

I know astrology works and there are many complexities many are ignorant to. But my nearly 22 years of living has not been good.
 
Define free will? Will is never total.

Free will is always bounded, so choice exists.

Meaning everything we do. I know astrology defines our personality in lock set. But when it comes to events and places and everything being tailored for us from the very moment of birth.
 

Bina

Well-known member
Events, situations, places and even people who come into our lives may be predestined, but we still have a choice as to how we react to these and how we deal with the challenges which are presented to us during the course of a lifetime - in my opinion this is where free will comes into the picture. :smile:
 
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Rick

Banned
Reincarnation exists mostly as a genetic thing :) One could say parents are gradually reincarnating into their kids. There is no other reincarnation apart maybe from the group/tribe/society passing on traits to the younger generation. But I agree, once the dice are rolled, maybe since the beginning of time, human life unfolds like dominoes, ours chart are set from birth and future childrens' chart too....
 
Reincarnation exists mostly as a genetic thing :) One could say parents are gradually reincarnating into their kids. There is no other reincarnation apart maybe from the group/tribe/society passing on traits to the younger generation. But I agree, once the dice are rolled, maybe since the beginning of time, human life unfolds like dominoes, ours chart are set from birth and future childrens' chart too....

Really? Because the studies show that reincarnations never had a direct genetic cause. They never even demonstrated that genes store memory like a computer, since humans aren't computers. PCs are binary and genes are basically sugar and protein with a 4 base sequence. You just literally voided astrology as a spiritual reality. Because my past life memories are legit and I have no family recollection or documentation of that incarnation, so explain that situation? Ian Stevenson's work ruled out genetic play, because the people who reincarnate are always doing it in a recent time miles and miles away. Unless genes are wifi, then you can't say that.
 

ukdesifem

Well-known member
Meaning everything we do. I know astrology defines our personality in lock set. But when it comes to events and places and everything being tailored for us from the very moment of birth.

Not necessarily. How we use the information on our chart is up to us. Choice exists, it's just it's very limited.

Besides, even if the planets didn't control us, we still have limitations. Nothing is absolutely free in life.
 

Rick

Banned
Really? Because the studies show that reincarnations never had a direct genetic cause. They never even demonstrated that genes store memory like a computer, since humans aren't computers. PCs are binary and genes are basically sugar and protein with a 4 base sequence. You just literally voided astrology as a spiritual reality. Because my past life memories are legit and I have no family recollection or documentation of that incarnation, so explain that situation? Ian Stevenson's work ruled out genetic play, because the people who reincarnate are always doing it in a recent time miles and miles away. Unless genes are wifi, then you can't say that.

I did not "void astrology as a spiritual reality"...it's all spiritual...just because it's genes doesn't mean it's materialistic. But it's like you're denying that members of a same family look and think alike...
And I said society reincarnates but I guess there can be direct channels of consciousness that pass on to someone else. Like you were the same person. I saw a docu on that, a young boy who described a Scottish town he'd never been to nor heard of..
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-boy-who-lived-before/
 

youfreeme

Member
I don't know that free will exists. I don't think astrology is to blame for this. It's just the nature of reality, and of things that are here in this universe. Everything is a series of causes and effects, traced back to the very first cause...whatever you believe that to be. Everything that has happened since then can only happen because of the things that came before it...and could have happened only the way that it did.
 
I did not "void astrology as a spiritual reality"...it's all spiritual...just because it's genes doesn't mean it's materialistic. But it's like you're denying that members of a same family look and think alike...
And I said society reincarnates but I guess there can be direct channels of consciousness that pass on to someone else. Like you were the same person. I saw a docu on that, a young boy who described a Scottish town he'd never been to nor heard of..
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-boy-who-lived-before/

I'm sorry for the harsh sentencing. I just misunderstood what you meant. I myself have nothing in common with my parents or family for that matter. So genes clearly are not the way Darwin laid them down. I recommend you watch the work of Bruce Lipton and epigenetics from the 50s. Basically genes are receptors to external stimuli, they aren't these agents that have some programmed direction. The genes only make up a physical body from the mix of my biological parents.
 

Bunraku

Well-known member
Planets give out (or are linked to?) certain energies that rule certain chakras, and in turn, rules certain parts of the body and soul. The chart is a reflection of that. You certainly have free will, but only if you can escape the influence of the planets. One way is through sublimating any powerful energies that the planets will put out at a given time. Some energy work is required to do these though...
 

astretina

Active member
programmed to an extent, no one asked me if i wanted to be born and sure as hell no one asked me what kind of soul-mind-body nature i wished to have

fundamentally programmed because man's life is destined, no such thing as free will, but that doesnt mean i cant choose which canned fish to buy at the supermarket

thats my life view - basically fatalism, my personal opinion
 
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greybeard

Well-known member
Vedic astrology is "better than" western?

Oh. That's nice.

Who told you so?

*************

Fate vs "Free Will".....

Watch horoscopes as they become manifest through a life.
And what you see is a person living out a script.
Gaze beyond Earth to the Cosmos and what you see is that things are born, live, grow, evolve, die..... and seem to have nothing to say about it. (stars for example, or mountains or fruit flies.)

Human beings evolved from, and in fact are still composed of one-celled organisms. We are nothing more than colonies of one-celled organisms. Humanity is nothing more than a continuation of what came before and we are the seed of what will be (in our particular line). We did not will ourselves into being -- the Cosmos did. We live between the two unseens of pre-birth and post-birth and have no say in either. Why, in the vast expanse of the eons should we, alone among all the creatures of Creation, suddenly and uniquely have "free will"?

A long time ago I was walking in the woods, thinking about astrology. And suddenly I realized that I am a puppet on cosmic strings...a slave if you will, with no control over my destiny. And in that moment I became Free.

I have no control over the stock market, the weather, the fact that I live on Earth, that I am male, American, a lousy singer..... All these things have a powerful, dominant influence on my life, how I live it, the choices I make.
I am often driven by emotions, passions...not under my control.
Most of what I do in life is driven by unconscious forces (I was raised to believe certain things -- many of them not true -- ) and these beliefs control me and my life.

My bet: The list of things over which you have control or power -- over which your Free Will reigns supreme -- will be far shorter than my list of things beyond my control.

This does not negate the fact that we constantly make choices, important choices. We can't do otherwise. But if we look deeply within, we might find that those choices in themselves are predetermined by our very nature.

Jesus (and others) said..."Not my will but thine be done". And then he walked down the hill, willingly, to meet his fate. If we look at this not as history but as symbol and guide for living wisely.... (P.S. I'm not a Christian. But I look for and accept wisdom wherever I can find it.)
 
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dhundhun

Well-known member
I was going to originally ask about what astrology is better. The western tropical or the vedic.
To some extent, it is based on society. For example Vedic Astrologers give name to baby based on Astrim. That sound vibrates life time in the name of child and makes influence of Moon dominant. There are several rituals and practices are based on that.

I wanted to logically conclude astrology is so accurate it's insane that obviously there can't be free will.
Those, who have more planets in angles (angular houses) have more free will. Meet people with 7-8 planets in angular houses - they are likely to be out of astrological boundaries.
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Lin

Well-known member
Astrology REFLECTS the psyche. It doesn't "cause" anything. The planets actions stamp us with potentials at birth. the birth map is the metaphorical picture of that psyche.

FreeWill, like all other potentials vary from person to person (chart to chart.)

Some people have more freedom within their lives, or at different times in their lives than other people or other times of their life.

All oppositions (all planets including the Sun and Moon) allow us to make decisions. During any week we make hundreds of decisions. These may be studied, or planned or foreseen or impetuous, or impulsive. Some of these will depend upon all or many of the previous choices (decisions). To think that every one of our choices is pre-destined is nuttier than thinking that our whole life is lived with total free will.

One big hint is HOW programmed you are in your childhood. The more programmed you are, the less free and authentic you will be in the rest of your life.

Having said ALL that: we all live with "the perameters" of our chart. We cannot go outside the boundries of our potentials.
LIN
 

Elra

Active member
Greybeard... "A long time ago I was walking in the woods"... curious to know what transits/progressions were happening in your Chart/s during this walk? For me the revelation that 'free will' is an illusion came in bulk during my Saturn Return. There were snippets of insights with earlier transits, but I feel that the Saturn 'structure' allowed for the ripple of awakening to arrive and plant itself more steadily :) Elra
 
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astretina

Active member
Watch horoscopes as they become manifest through a life.
And what you see is a person living out a script.

And suddenly I realized that I am a puppet on cosmic strings...a slave if you will, with no control over my destiny.

This does not negate the fact that we constantly make choices, important choices. We can't do otherwise. But if we look deeply within, we might find that those choices in themselves are predetermined by our very nature.

Jesus (and others) said..."Not my will but thine be done". And then he walked down the hill, willingly, to meet his fate. (P.S. I'm not a Christian. But I look for and accept wisdom wherever I can find it.)

these are the parts that i like and agree with greybeard, nicely put
 

greybeard

Well-known member
Elra...

Transits in effect (I really can't pin the date down...) were
Pluto square Sun (8th)
Neptune at the Dsc
Saturn Rx trine himself (waning trine from his own house)
Jupiter crossing the Asc (and opp t.Neptune)

Sec. Pr. Moon was crossing Asc, which she rules (conj. t.Jupiter & opp. t.Neptune)
Neptune is powerful in the radix.
 
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