Jewish astrology

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ellios

So what do most astrology experts think about the jewish method of astrology? Or about judaic doctrines/teachings in general?
Isn't it so archaic? But in the same sense I get that its very mystical, for one Jews are a very religious ethnicity/culture so many of their teachings (that are dispersed throughout the world) are esoteric in the sense that it gets passed down orally from teacher to student and we're lucky if they write it down. I think we forget about the wealth of information on religion and astrology for that matter that ancient Jewish texts have, per say, there is the Zohar, book of Creation, and many more. To me, its so freaken complicated and esoteric I dont know where to begin, thats why they say that if you study kabbalah you can even go crazy!
The library on my campus has so many books on judaism and religion in general that I get lost there?! The only downside I think about judaism is that fact that its so patriarchal, but i guess its one way to live, but now the whole **** world is patriarchal!
 

lilllybelle

Well-known member
I think this in a really interesting subject except that I don't know squat about it. The only thing I do know is that Lilith comes from Hebrew culture. I hope someone will share their knowledge of jewish astrology with us.
 
E

ellios

When you said the word lillith that reminded me of a kabbalistic thing i read on it. If you think about it and wonder if the myth of lillith is real than that is some really scary ****! Then again, I believe God rules the universe so that should calm my fears ...

You may find this interesting...
The story of lillith is somewhat along the lines of this:


Thanks to the link:
http://home.aol.com/lazera/archive/esoterica.html

The Lillith Myth:

I heard a portion of a story recently. The story was about a woman named Lilith. I remember the story said something about she was the woman before Eve. I was wondering if you could tell me that story, if you know?
Answer:

There is no reference in the Tanach (Jewish Scriptures), Talmud, or other major Jewish works to a woman named Lillith. There is reference to a female night demon by this name in the Talmud, and possibly in Isaiah 34:14. (Depending on the translation which you consult this will be rendered either as Lillith or as "night creature" or "great owl". Some commentaries say that this is referring to a night bird, others say it refers to the demon Lilith "mother of the demons".)
The closest I have found to even a hint of the so-called "Lillith myth" in the Talmud, is in Erubin 18b which states that Adam separated from his wife for a period of 130 years (as part of his atonement for the sin of eating from the Tree of Knowledge of good and Evil). During this period he had an accidental "spilling of seed" -a wet dream- which "fathered" the demons. One of the kinds of demons fathered was the lilin - probably best translated as night demons. Lilin is the male plural of Lilith (which is feminine singular). Lilith is not mentioned in this account but there may be a connection. Elsewhere (Talmud Shabbos 151b) we see that Lilith grabs a hold of someone who sleeps alone. This may be alluding to an idea found in some Kaballistic sources that Lilith has some connection with the inducement of wet dreams and that this is how she 'mothered' the demons through Adam. That is mostly conjecture on my part. In any event, Lilith was clearly not a competitor with Eve according to any of this.
There are further references to Lilith as having been created prior to Eve (and even Adam) in Kaballistic works but, like all the material in such books, it requires extensive knowledge to even make head or tail of it, and I don't have that kind of knowledge. Such references are not particularly numerous either. The primary source for the "Lillith myth" is an extremely controversial book titled Alpha-Beisa d'Ben Sirah (The Alphabet of Ben Sira). This book was never accepted as reliable by Jewish tradition and cannot be considered a reliable source. Lillith was never a major character in Jewish tradition and has only recently been adopted by certain radical feminists as a sort of icon (why they would choose a succubus for this is totally beyond me).

...........Also I've read somewhere on the internet and you can't believe everything you read, I know, but it was an interesting theory of how the planets and such could be spiritual forces like angels/demons or something of it. I dont think anyone would accept such a notion, its way out there.....
Interesting read though.
 

weee11

Well-known member
ther are some critics that say that lilith had and equal powers to adam the male because god created them simutanisly, and maybe that was the problem..
i dont know how much those stories are real, i guess these are more of lessons and symbols.
 

astro.teacher

Well-known member
There isnt really a jewish system of Astrology. The practically non-existant Jewish Astrologers took what they had from the Mesopotamians and Hellenistic Astrologers of the time. But there was never a strong unified system built around that. Astrology was usually forbidden to be practiced by Jews simply because it came between them and their relationship with God. If you already know your path, how can you have complete faith in Gods Will?
 

weee11

Well-known member
astro.teacher said:
There isnt really a jewish system of Astrology. The practically non-existant Jewish Astrologers took what they had from the Mesopotamians and Hellenistic Astrologers of the time. But there was never a strong unified system built around that. Astrology was usually forbidden to be practiced by Jews simply because it came between them and their relationship with God. If you already know your path, how can you have complete faith in Gods Will?
the kabbala embraced astrology very well from what i saw..
 

astro.teacher

Well-known member
I dont see how the Kabbalah is an Astrological text. It may describe some Astronomy but please tell me where there is any Astrological data contained in its teaching that are used for that purpose?
 
E

ellios

Good question. I didnt mean to state that Kabbalah is an astrological text, but rather it has some astrological study to it. The Jews, and I mean in ancient biblical times that studied the stars and wrote something about it have related an aspect of Kabbalah in their esoteric teachings to the zodiac. You can literally study this for a long time, for which I dont have the money to buy all the books and neither the committment to follow through, but its a fascinating subject. I only referenced to them because after reading quite a bit on "kabbalah" and ancient jewish texts in general it seems that they like other astrologers have similar ways of viewing the zodiac. I found a bit on the internet that touches upon it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sefer_Yetzirah

http://www.factsbehindfaith.com/astrology-kabbalah.html

http://www.raziel.info/

Its all very interesting to me...I am reading a book about Kabbalah, its called "3 Minute Discourses on Kabbalah by Leading Jewish Scholars" so as you can tell Im only embarking, and i checked this one out from the library.
As far as what their texts say, here's a snippet from a link about The book of creation (cannot verfiy facts but is agreeable to what else i read):
Enjoy!

According to the Sefer Yetzirah, the first emanation from the spirit of God was the (= "spirit," "air") that produced fire, which, in its turn, formed the genesis of water. In the beginning, however, these three substances had only a potential existence, and came into actual being only by means of the three letters; and as these are the principal parts of speech, so those three substances are the elements from which the cosmos has been formed.
The cosmos consists of three parts, the world, the year (or time), and man, which are combined in such a way that the three primordial elements are contained in each of the three categories. The water formed the earth; heaven was produced from the fire; and the produced the air between heaven and earth. The three seasons of the year, winter, summer, and the rainy season, correspond to water, fire, and in the same way as man consists of a head (corresponding to fire), torso, and the other parts of the body (equivalent to water).
The seven double letters produced the seven planets, the "seven days," and the seven apertures in man (two eyes, two ears, two nostrils, and one mouth). Again, as the seven double letters vary, being pronounced either hard or soft, so the seven planets are in continuous movement, approaching or receding from the earth. The "seven days," in like manner, were created by the seven double letters whereat they change in time according to their relation to the planets. The seven apertures in man connect him with the outer world as the seven planets join heaven and earth. Hence these organs are subject to the influence of the planets, the right eye being under Saturn, the left eye under Jupiter, and the like.
The twelve "simple" letters created the twelve signs of the zodiac, whose relation to the earth is always simple or stable; and to them belong the twelve months in time, and the twelve "leaders" in man. The latter are those organs which perform functions in the body independent of the outside world, being the hands, feet, kidneys, gall, intestines, stomach, liver, pancreas, and spleen; and they are, accordingly, subject to the twelve signs of the zodiac.
In its relation to the construction of the cosmos, matter consists of the three primordial elements, which, however, are not chemically connected with one another, but modify one another only physically. Power (δύναμις) emanates from the seven and the twelve heavenly bodies, or, in other words, from the planets and the signs of the zodiac. The "dragon" rules over the world (matter and the heavenly bodies); the sphere rules time; and the heart rules over the human body. The author sums up this explanation in a single sentence: "The dragon is like to a king on his throne, the sphere like a king traveling in his country, and the heart like a king at war."
-Wikipedia

I cannot believe they wrote this type of stuff a LONG time ago...i cant even understand it that much..its almost like the Mayan calendar, you'd think because they lived in ancient times that they were barbaric but their societies were probably way advanced.
 

wintersprite1

Premium Member
astro.teacher said:
I dont see how the Kabbalah is an Astrological text. It may describe some Astronomy but please tell me where there is any Astrological data contained in its teaching that are used for that purpose?

You will find reference to the use of the Kabalah and astrology in Enochian Magik. The Golden Dawn Order uses both to create tablets of the kings/angels. The basis of the order is from the work of John Dee, the court Astrologer for both Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth.

TK
 

astro.teacher

Well-known member
You will find reference to the use of the Kabalah and astrology in Enochian Magik.

I dont recall the connection between Kabalah and Enochian. Can you please tell me where it states this? I believe the original question was making reference to traditional Astrology found INSIDE works that make up the Kabalah, not modern associations linking Kabalah and Astrology together (Im sure a simply search will bring up many links).
 
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ellios

Im no astrology expert, but if I can tell that astrology is somehow related to the teachings of kabbalah i cant see another cant? and i dont practice astrology..
Like I said I dont have the time nor committment if I really wanted to study kabbalah, but even the students of yesterday's teachers believe there are correlations. This was a topic to discuss about jewish astrology, not diminish its significance in any light. Nostradamus was an astrologer but where is his texts of astrology, rather he wrote predictions about the future...In the same light, kabbalah by no means of this definite definition is an attempt to explain the mystical, secret truths of our universe let alone our Creator. I dont why a certain people/religon or culture has to have an astrology text in order to validate that they practiced it and may of course practice it today...
I think its a fascinating subject that predates a time that I cant even remember knowing...
 

AquarianEssence

Well-known member
I see the Jewish scriptures loaded with astrological teachings. Abram, later renamed as Abraham, was originally from Ur in the land of the Chaldees. These people were mathmeticians, astronomers and astrologers. It is said through him, God built a mighty nation to worship him. Through his grandson, Jacob, 12 sons were born, which became the 12 tribes of Isreal which correspond to the 12 signs of the zodiac. Understanding the meaning of their names and their history gives interesting insight into the nature of the signs. The information I have on the Kabala and the Tree of life, shows correspondances of the planets to each of the 10 sephirah.

The story of how childless Abram and Sarai grew to be a huge nation is fascinating. The addition of a simple but fruitful letter to their names along with a physical move to a new location seemed to make them fruitful when they could not conceive. Each letter of the ancient alphabet is also a word with meaning and, as all sound, vibrates to a certain frequency. Their magic letter was Hey, the holy breath, used twice to form the Holy name of God. Hey is the window that gives sight. The door is just before it, the letter daleth. A window is any kind of opening that allows us to see and lets in light. A female has one more opening than a man, the one for union of male and female, and conception that makes us fruitful and multiply. On the tree of life the letter Hey is the path that connects Chockmah, ruled by Neptune, the sephirah of spiritual will that corresponds to the left brain, to the heart at Tipareth, ruled by the Sun. These are sephiroths 2 and 6. It takes 2 and 6 (latin sex) to produce children. Hey is the number 5 which brings change and fluxuation with the cycles. The sign of Aquarius in on this path. The old way of saying a couple had sex is to say Abraham "knew" his wife and she conceived a son. Aquarius' key work is to know. Leo-Sun's keyword is to will. Neptun-Pisces' keyword is to "understand". The path of Hey is called the substance of creation, appropriate for Aquarius, I think, the waters of life held by mankind. Originally the cupbearer was female and later became male. In the Hebrew language, the letter h at the end signifies the female form. Thus Abraham contained the receptive window in the bosom of his name and Sarah was the receptive vessel. By the way, her name comes from a root meaning ruler, its a dominative. Put them together and we have the birth of the patriarchy, exalted father ruler. Combine the male and female within and we have a person that rules his or her children with love, connecting the head and heart.

Noah's 3 sons, Shem (C)ham and Japteth also contain astrological stories. Shem (prounounced shame) means "mark of distinction, a name". He became the Semites that setteled the area of Arabia, the middle people.

Ham means hot. The word for Sun comes from here. I wonder if it comes from a root that means to be joined or walled, as to be protected. A wall attracts and holds warmth. Ham received a curse from his father. He became know as the Caananites and setteled Hamitic Africa, in the south.

Japeth means "expansion". His people settled in the northern area becoming Japhetic Europe.

To me this represents our Sun or our name as our mark of distinction that is hot and exapands us through our 5th house creations.

In the same way, Adam's 1st 3 children teach us that"

Cain, Qyn, a smith or earth worker, strikes a note that penetreates like a lance as striking fast, in the sense of fixity, staying put. He killed...

Abel, Hbl, a hersman whose name means transitory, empty, vanity, unsatisfactory. God put a mark of distinction on Cain to protect him from being killed in revenge. In Abel's place came...

Seth, Sh Th, meaning put or substituted. When pronounced sheeth in means six, Latin, sex.

Here I see the fixed positions of the natal planets with the transitory Solar return and other temporary charts and those planetary positions being substituted for the position of the natal altering the meaning temporarily but then something better taking its place. What is fixed destroyes what is transitory and puts something in its place.

I also see the Cardinal becoming fixed which is really transitory and the mutable is substituted after. This is exactly what is true with my natal chart. My cardinal ascendant is fixed Leo, ruled by the Sun which is in mutable or transitory Virgo, placed in the fixed 2nd house.

Perhaps we can say Cain is the angular and cardinal, Seth the succedent, fixed and Abel the cadent, mutable.

All of the Bible is full of hidden meaning. It would take a lifetime to uncover it all and thensome.
 

astro.teacher

Well-known member
There are many MANY interpretations of scripture but there is no strong Astrological data that can be used as a system of Astrology. There is no doubt that Abraham knew Astrology coming from Chaldean territory (in fact its said he taught it to the Egyptians!). But please, tell me how exactly Neptune, Uranus, and all of that plays into TRADITIONAL Astrology at all? I see absolutely no connection between those Planets and how the Hebrews had any idea about that. People interpret things how they want, especially if they are Esoteric. Anyone can now create a system of Jewish Astrology if they want but it doesnt use any Traditional source and therefore what makes it valid?
 

AquarianEssence

Well-known member
I see your point. But before tradition became a tradition what was it? Tradition changes as we change. We used to have home grown turkey for Thanksgiving but we no longer raise turkeys. So we started a different tradition. Yes, they hadn't discovered Neptune or any of the outer planets with the eye but Pluto is mentioned in scripture along with other recent discoveries. They first existed in the reality of their myth and oral traditions. Then when they, we, were ready, we discovered the physical body in the heavens that relays that energy. Just my opinion, but I think it's worth considering. Tradition is meant as a guide, a starting point. If we consider it the beginning and end it becomes a burden that holds us back. Traditional wedding vows used to include that the wife would obey her husband. Many men are now STRONG enough in their own right that they can stand side by side, equal with their woman now rather than having to have the "law" as their crutch to lean on.
 

Humanitarian

Well-known member
There isnt really a jewish system of Astrology. The practically non-existant Jewish Astrologers took what they had from the Mesopotamians and Hellenistic Astrologers of the time. But there was never a strong unified system built around that. Astrology was usually forbidden to be practiced by Jews simply because it came between them and their relationship with God. If you already know your path, how can you have complete faith in Gods Will?
Astrology is actually compatible with free will...
 
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