Mel Gibson alcohol addiction
- Thread starter Claire19
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I also wanted to ask a similar question after seeing an interview with him recently, and remarking, "But he's a Capricorn! Caps don't drink!" Couple that with a Cap aquaintance I know that's an alcoholic and I was really confused.
But the answer could be just that. He's a Capricorn, drinking to escape his own heavy sense of responsibility, the impossible demands he places on himself, and most of all, drinking to escape the melancholy and depression that plagues this sign.
It would be interesting to see what came first: the drinking or the demise of his career. I imagine for an ambitious Cap, to fall from great heights would be very difficult, and perhaps turning to alcohol is one way to deal with that.
Also: Mars is in a water sign, which can account for depression, and an inability to "lift your own spirit up."
But the answer could be just that. He's a Capricorn, drinking to escape his own heavy sense of responsibility, the impossible demands he places on himself, and most of all, drinking to escape the melancholy and depression that plagues this sign.
It would be interesting to see what came first: the drinking or the demise of his career. I imagine for an ambitious Cap, to fall from great heights would be very difficult, and perhaps turning to alcohol is one way to deal with that.
Also: Mars is in a water sign, which can account for depression, and an inability to "lift your own spirit up."
Claire19
Well-known member
Actually his latest film is doing very well. He has ups and downs but is so wealthy he could not ever be called a failure as far as his career goes. He has made the films he wanted to make. He has Cap on the 7th so an enduring marriage is indicated, which he has. His Neptune will tell the story of his addictions. This is a physical often genetic illness and we mustn't forget that. He began drinking as a a very young teenager as it is the culture in Australia in particular and there would be peer pressure especially for a "macho" man. Some people drink when they have no real problems and others do not drink even when they have horrendous ones. Some people can drink all their lives and never be dependent. It all depends on our disposition which is shown at birth.
We can look at his Sun Neptune aspect for instance.
Claire
We can look at his Sun Neptune aspect for instance.
Claire
Claire19
Well-known member
I see for him although it started as a recreational habit with his friends 5th and 3rd houses involved, in short, he became dependent. He has said he is very sensitive, Cancer rising with Moon in Libra 4th, wanting domestic harmony especially. He really wants to please and doesnt like discord of any kind. It is hard for a man with all that he has to remain faithful and there are many temptations. As a Capricorn he feels responsible and dutiful towards his partnership but has a lot of freedom with the Uranus aspect.
Would the Sun conjunct the Decendant make a person more likely to give their identity over to others, and thus succumb to peer pressure?
Sorry, I was thinking more along the lines of alcohol dependance being a coping mechanism for a more deeply ingrained problem, like the expression of an inner turmoil. But maybe there is no problem and he is simply addicted to alcohol!
I don't know how to spot that in a chart, so I may just bow out of this discussion.
Sorry, I was thinking more along the lines of alcohol dependance being a coping mechanism for a more deeply ingrained problem, like the expression of an inner turmoil. But maybe there is no problem and he is simply addicted to alcohol!
I don't know how to spot that in a chart, so I may just bow out of this discussion.SolarSiren
Well-known member
Capricorns...
They hate losing control!!
They hate expressing deep problems to others or showing weakness.
And if an addiction happens to help in their job(Alot of medically depressed actor folk think taking anti depressants or stopping drugs will limit their creativity & success), they will use it as an excuse not to stop, health be damned!
Four of the biggest drinkers I know are Caps. (My Dad & three celebrity friends).
And dear Elvis, don't forget his struggles with substances.
What's his birth info again??
He's got balls making Passion....I'm Jewish but still feel he got too much sh*t....I've said much more Un-politically correct comments when drunk or high...cut him some slack media.
They hate losing control!!
They hate expressing deep problems to others or showing weakness.
And if an addiction happens to help in their job(Alot of medically depressed actor folk think taking anti depressants or stopping drugs will limit their creativity & success), they will use it as an excuse not to stop, health be damned!
Four of the biggest drinkers I know are Caps. (My Dad & three celebrity friends).
And dear Elvis, don't forget his struggles with substances.
What's his birth info again??
He's got balls making Passion....I'm Jewish but still feel he got too much sh*t....I've said much more Un-politically correct comments when drunk or high...cut him some slack media.
Belgianmoonguy
Well-known member
A lot of anaretic degrees
Neptune 0° Scorpio conjunct 5th house cusp in Scorpio
Mercury, as ruler of the 12th house... 29° Capricorn...
Mercury quincunxes Pluto in 3... That Pluto is conjunct Jupiter, planet of exaggeration...
MAy be far fetched, but this could be one of the astrological reasons he drinks
And mind, he's a destiny number 7
7, an indication towards Spirituality
Is linked to the south node and Neptune
And we all know the good and BAD side of 'foggy' Neppie
Neptune 0° Scorpio conjunct 5th house cusp in Scorpio
Mercury, as ruler of the 12th house... 29° Capricorn...
Mercury quincunxes Pluto in 3... That Pluto is conjunct Jupiter, planet of exaggeration...
MAy be far fetched, but this could be one of the astrological reasons he drinks
And mind, he's a destiny number 7
7, an indication towards Spirituality
Is linked to the south node and Neptune
And we all know the good and BAD side of 'foggy' Neppie
freedomlover
Well-known member
What drew my eye is the Venus in Aquarius in a duplicated 8th house with no major aspects (unless you count a quintile to Saturn). He has a major focus on Libra issues in the 4th - Moon, Part of Fortune, and Neptune. Possibly he is too career-oriented, when his soul really needs close relationships. Maybe he drinks to fill the emotional void. Just because he's been married to the same woman for years does not necessarily mean that he is deeply emotional bonded with her. (I'm not saying he is not, either. Just a different approach to see what comes out of this.)
Also, I think he puts way too much pressure on himself. I think he possibly suffers from some kind of self-guilt, condemnation ( common with Cappies), and it may be fed through some of his religious beliefs. He seems to have a big theme of focusing on suffering.
I'm not the greatest aspect-reader, nor am I skilled with dispositors. However, if anyone could take the ball I've thrown here and run with it..... I would be very interested to see if this theory ( Venus/Libra/relationships) plays out.
Also, I think he puts way too much pressure on himself. I think he possibly suffers from some kind of self-guilt, condemnation ( common with Cappies), and it may be fed through some of his religious beliefs. He seems to have a big theme of focusing on suffering.
I'm not the greatest aspect-reader, nor am I skilled with dispositors. However, if anyone could take the ball I've thrown here and run with it..... I would be very interested to see if this theory ( Venus/Libra/relationships) plays out.
Belgianmoonguy
Well-known member
freedomlover said:
Isn't Neptune placed on 0° Scorpio in 5 in his chart?
Summery Joy
Well-known member
Alcoholism is mainly means to escapism. In astrology, escapism is associated with Neptune, Pisces and the 12th house. But we all have those three emphasized somehow in our natal charts. This could only means that we all have the innate tendency. The severity or strength of the tendency will be defined by the triggers of escapism; i.e. what we cannot handle and cannot accept our inability to handle.
In Gibson's chart, Neptune squares both Uranus and Chiron making it the focal point of a strong T square. Uranus and Chiron are between the 1st &2nd and the 7th &8th respectively. Neptune is on the cusp on the 5th. The missing leg of the table should have been on the cusp on the 11th. Let's see what's involved here house wise: sense of identity, values, other people, shared values and fun and recreation (1st, 2nd, 7th, 8th and 5th respectively). The missing emphasis is on hopes and wishes and networks. If we treat this as a generic T square with no regard to the planets involved, we'd say that Gibson has a problem bringing his own sense of identity and values to terms with his sense of other people and shared values, and the only way he thinks he can accomplish that is by stressing on the "fun" side of things to make up for his inability to get the acceptance he wants by large groups. He tries to act as if he doesn't care, but he does.
Knowing how famous and successful Mel Gibson is, I am only inclined to believe that the kind of acceptance Gibson wants is not that brought by superstardom and that he still has unfulfilled hopes and wishes.
To make matters even harder to Gibson, he has his nodal axis in the 6th and the 12th making his path swing between responsibility-assuming and self-undoing. With the South Node in the 12th, his unhealthy tendencies will be in the self-undoing area.
This brings us back to the T square and its focal point that is Neptune. Look at Neptune's square with Chiron. Doesn't it scream escapism from pain and responsibility? And Neptune's square with Uranus, doesn't it show how shocking his Neptune functions will be? All this is without even considering the opposition between Uranus and Chiron.
Considering signs now, Pisces embraces the MC, the angle that rules public image and, in my experience, the impression one gives to those who don't know one well. While his Pisces MC may have helped his career as a "dreamy" star or appearing incredibly "sensitive" to the ladies, it has given more weight to Gibson's stress on "Neptunian" issues.
Every other placement in the chart also explains Gibson's behavior, including alcoholism. The emphasis on Scorpio shows intensity of feelings. Just look at the angle he used to depict Jesus in the Passion of the Christ. And while that appealed to me and millions of other Christian viewers allover the world, I am not very pleased with how he keeps displaying emotions of hatred towards Jews, which I also think stems from the stress on Scorpio. And in our issue at hand, I can only say that his intensity of emotions, specifically the negative ones, probably drove him even more towards escapism.
The stress on Capricorn gives more color to his North Node in the 6th house. While his NN is actually Sagittarius, Capricorn gives him a lot of energy to fulfill it. Moreover, Capricorn has a reputation as a Sign of emotional repression and suppression.
Venus in Aquarius gives a color of shocks. Using tight orbs, Venus is unaspected, which gives it even greater influence on the chart dynamic. I think I don't really need to explain how Venus in Aquarius is demonstrated by Mel Gibson.
Finally, the Moon in Libra shows inability to make quick decisions and tendency to care about every other opinion out there. While Libra may explain the artist in Gibson, I can see how it contributes to his problem in question.
To wrap up here I'd like to say a few words to Mel Gibson's fans who may be reading this post. Mel Gibson's chart has a lot of very interesting placements that are worth studying in detail. And I can see how he managed to get where he is now, the good places and the bad. But I only selected a few placements and focused on their negative influences for serve the purpose of this thread. I hope I haven't insulted anyone who likes Mel Gibson, and I hope I've given some interesting insights to those interested in the topic of this thread.
In Gibson's chart, Neptune squares both Uranus and Chiron making it the focal point of a strong T square. Uranus and Chiron are between the 1st &2nd and the 7th &8th respectively. Neptune is on the cusp on the 5th. The missing leg of the table should have been on the cusp on the 11th. Let's see what's involved here house wise: sense of identity, values, other people, shared values and fun and recreation (1st, 2nd, 7th, 8th and 5th respectively). The missing emphasis is on hopes and wishes and networks. If we treat this as a generic T square with no regard to the planets involved, we'd say that Gibson has a problem bringing his own sense of identity and values to terms with his sense of other people and shared values, and the only way he thinks he can accomplish that is by stressing on the "fun" side of things to make up for his inability to get the acceptance he wants by large groups. He tries to act as if he doesn't care, but he does.
Knowing how famous and successful Mel Gibson is, I am only inclined to believe that the kind of acceptance Gibson wants is not that brought by superstardom and that he still has unfulfilled hopes and wishes.
To make matters even harder to Gibson, he has his nodal axis in the 6th and the 12th making his path swing between responsibility-assuming and self-undoing. With the South Node in the 12th, his unhealthy tendencies will be in the self-undoing area.
This brings us back to the T square and its focal point that is Neptune. Look at Neptune's square with Chiron. Doesn't it scream escapism from pain and responsibility? And Neptune's square with Uranus, doesn't it show how shocking his Neptune functions will be? All this is without even considering the opposition between Uranus and Chiron.
Considering signs now, Pisces embraces the MC, the angle that rules public image and, in my experience, the impression one gives to those who don't know one well. While his Pisces MC may have helped his career as a "dreamy" star or appearing incredibly "sensitive" to the ladies, it has given more weight to Gibson's stress on "Neptunian" issues.
Every other placement in the chart also explains Gibson's behavior, including alcoholism. The emphasis on Scorpio shows intensity of feelings. Just look at the angle he used to depict Jesus in the Passion of the Christ. And while that appealed to me and millions of other Christian viewers allover the world, I am not very pleased with how he keeps displaying emotions of hatred towards Jews, which I also think stems from the stress on Scorpio. And in our issue at hand, I can only say that his intensity of emotions, specifically the negative ones, probably drove him even more towards escapism.
The stress on Capricorn gives more color to his North Node in the 6th house. While his NN is actually Sagittarius, Capricorn gives him a lot of energy to fulfill it. Moreover, Capricorn has a reputation as a Sign of emotional repression and suppression.
Venus in Aquarius gives a color of shocks. Using tight orbs, Venus is unaspected, which gives it even greater influence on the chart dynamic. I think I don't really need to explain how Venus in Aquarius is demonstrated by Mel Gibson.
Finally, the Moon in Libra shows inability to make quick decisions and tendency to care about every other opinion out there. While Libra may explain the artist in Gibson, I can see how it contributes to his problem in question.
To wrap up here I'd like to say a few words to Mel Gibson's fans who may be reading this post. Mel Gibson's chart has a lot of very interesting placements that are worth studying in detail. And I can see how he managed to get where he is now, the good places and the bad. But I only selected a few placements and focused on their negative influences for serve the purpose of this thread. I hope I haven't insulted anyone who likes Mel Gibson, and I hope I've given some interesting insights to those interested in the topic of this thread.
franklin taylor
Well-known member
Hello,
As Kite pointed out there last year Chiron and Uranus at opposition can indicated an addictive personality. My Saturn and conjuncting Chiron opposite Uranus conjunct Pluto must really "blow the boat out of the water" LOL. My addictions are my own though. Not Drugs and Alcohol for sure. A wide orb though. Well anyways, Mel's chart has that same aspect Uranus opposition Chiron. Although his Venus is not out of bounds (+23.5 degrees) it is mostly unaspected or very weakly aspected. Meaning Venus is a powerful player in the chart, and may be the leading planet of a locomotive chart, or is close. This can point to excessive luxuries desired in life of drink and food or anything. Also it is in his seventh house pointing to relationships with others. Mel has a Quintile aspect (72 degrees) almost exactly. I don't know exactly how that plays out, but here's Astrology Weekly's decription for it;
Sun quintile Neptune: Developing styles of behaviour which emphasize one's sensitivity, caringness, concern for humanity and lack of concern for oneself.
I think he probably wasn't caring for himself when he said those things he did, but Neptune's Nectar (Alcohol) was running through his veins LOL. Just stay home if you like to drink to the intoxicating stage, Mel. All I could say about it. He's not perfect. I can see some of the other "traits" of this Quintile description in him also. The aspect description sounds like it amplifies Neptune, so addiction may come with that territory. Evaluating Sun/Neptune aspects really is a valuable tool for gauging addictive personalities. Especially when they square. Upon reading part of my former Spouses (a Sun square Neptune native) Alcoholic Anonymous texts, I understand that I have many of the same coping mechanisms as are explained in these books. I could be considered a "dry drunk", but I have only drank maybe five times in my life and never to an intoxicating, (loose-tongue syndrome LOL), point. If you don't drink you know that doesn't take much! I feel it is my Sun Square Neptune playing in my life and it shows the freewill aspect of astrology and life playing out together. Its largely why I believe in my quirky quote that I display. But hey, I am an Aquarian Rising, we are suppose to be a little "kooky" LOL. I don't choose Neptune's Nectar. No Neptune, thank you very much LOL. Have a good day all! Neptune's the leader of my locomotive chart.
Take care,
Franklin
As Kite pointed out there last year Chiron and Uranus at opposition can indicated an addictive personality. My Saturn and conjuncting Chiron opposite Uranus conjunct Pluto must really "blow the boat out of the water" LOL. My addictions are my own though. Not Drugs and Alcohol for sure. A wide orb though. Well anyways, Mel's chart has that same aspect Uranus opposition Chiron. Although his Venus is not out of bounds (+23.5 degrees) it is mostly unaspected or very weakly aspected. Meaning Venus is a powerful player in the chart, and may be the leading planet of a locomotive chart, or is close. This can point to excessive luxuries desired in life of drink and food or anything. Also it is in his seventh house pointing to relationships with others. Mel has a Quintile aspect (72 degrees) almost exactly. I don't know exactly how that plays out, but here's Astrology Weekly's decription for it;
Sun quintile Neptune: Developing styles of behaviour which emphasize one's sensitivity, caringness, concern for humanity and lack of concern for oneself.
I think he probably wasn't caring for himself when he said those things he did, but Neptune's Nectar (Alcohol) was running through his veins LOL. Just stay home if you like to drink to the intoxicating stage, Mel. All I could say about it. He's not perfect. I can see some of the other "traits" of this Quintile description in him also. The aspect description sounds like it amplifies Neptune, so addiction may come with that territory. Evaluating Sun/Neptune aspects really is a valuable tool for gauging addictive personalities. Especially when they square. Upon reading part of my former Spouses (a Sun square Neptune native) Alcoholic Anonymous texts, I understand that I have many of the same coping mechanisms as are explained in these books. I could be considered a "dry drunk", but I have only drank maybe five times in my life and never to an intoxicating, (loose-tongue syndrome LOL), point. If you don't drink you know that doesn't take much! I feel it is my Sun Square Neptune playing in my life and it shows the freewill aspect of astrology and life playing out together. Its largely why I believe in my quirky quote that I display. But hey, I am an Aquarian Rising, we are suppose to be a little "kooky" LOL. I don't choose Neptune's Nectar. No Neptune, thank you very much LOL. Have a good day all! Neptune's the leader of my locomotive chart.
Take care,
Franklin
Claire19
Well-known member
Such interesting feedback.
The south node in 12th is very telling I feel. Past life habits of addictions and irresponsibility. His north node 6th is for work and to take care of everyday needs which he may not have been responsible for in the past, may have been a poverty monk living on the community. His Neptune involved with 5th is creativity with film making as well. He has Uranus in the 1st which gives him a restless and nervous demeanour and which he says he is only just beginning to conquer.
However being a Capricorn as such is not addictive making, it is his Neptune aspects. Also with Cappie Elvis, it was his Pisces Moon and his mother was an alcoholic which was rather hushed up and her real reason to die quite young. Capricornians in my experience rather like to collect vintage wine and have a large cellar often. Not indicative of alcoholism per se.
I feel he shows his vulnerabilities and this is the Moon ruler of Cancer rising and I dont see him as really macho or repressed in that way but nevertheless is masculine.
As for the suffering in the films, it is more the violence and death that he emphasises and has said so. Mars Saturn in 5th, creativity expressed in this way.
We all have a different spin and that is what makes it so fascinating and informative.
Cheers
Claire
The south node in 12th is very telling I feel. Past life habits of addictions and irresponsibility. His north node 6th is for work and to take care of everyday needs which he may not have been responsible for in the past, may have been a poverty monk living on the community. His Neptune involved with 5th is creativity with film making as well. He has Uranus in the 1st which gives him a restless and nervous demeanour and which he says he is only just beginning to conquer.
However being a Capricorn as such is not addictive making, it is his Neptune aspects. Also with Cappie Elvis, it was his Pisces Moon and his mother was an alcoholic which was rather hushed up and her real reason to die quite young. Capricornians in my experience rather like to collect vintage wine and have a large cellar often. Not indicative of alcoholism per se.
I feel he shows his vulnerabilities and this is the Moon ruler of Cancer rising and I dont see him as really macho or repressed in that way but nevertheless is masculine.
As for the suffering in the films, it is more the violence and death that he emphasises and has said so. Mars Saturn in 5th, creativity expressed in this way.
We all have a different spin and that is what makes it so fascinating and informative.
Cheers
Claire
Claire19
Well-known member
As for the anti semitism, Caps can be the most narrow minded and prejudiced sign of all and ironically Capricorn and Saturn rule the Jewish race..People dont lie when they are drunk, they tell the truth as the barriers are down and say what they really think. So to blame the alcohol is irresponsible and he has said that he needs to look deep within himself for those feelings.
Claire
Claire
Claire19
Well-known member
I dont see where Uranus per se is connected to addictions. It is a planet of freedom and hates any kind of bondage and dependency.... Chiron can be our wound I agree. Even Uranus in Cancer has to have a connection with Neptune, or 12th for instance. Cancer can be a sign that drinks too much, addicted to food along with challenging Moon aspects, the other water sign Scorpio and Pluto, can be addictions but more obsessions.
I think that alcoholics are born that way and even a small amount can set some people on the path and not because they are trying to block out some emotional problems initially. It can be enjoyment and promotes sociability especially in the shy and sensitive and then there is peer pressure which was the case with Mel and then escalates into need as the body cells take the alcohol on board and forever need it to help them function. Alcoholics always need to have a higher power than themselves to take it up for them, in order to recover. It is and remains a physical disease with mental and emotional effects. Some people can drink heavily for a period and then completely abstain. A complex issue.
Claire
I think that alcoholics are born that way and even a small amount can set some people on the path and not because they are trying to block out some emotional problems initially. It can be enjoyment and promotes sociability especially in the shy and sensitive and then there is peer pressure which was the case with Mel and then escalates into need as the body cells take the alcohol on board and forever need it to help them function. Alcoholics always need to have a higher power than themselves to take it up for them, in order to recover. It is and remains a physical disease with mental and emotional effects. Some people can drink heavily for a period and then completely abstain. A complex issue.
Claire
Brooklyn Dave
Member
My dad was a Capricorn and had a problem with the bottle. He was a very controlled drinker (never missed work, didn't go out on wild sprees though definitely of the melancholy sort). I think my dad's moon was Sagittarius. The responsibility thing was always first and foremost in my dad's life. Alcohol just brought him down emotionally. Was alot better socially without booze, even though he may not have felt so.
Brooklyn Dave
Member
What about Neptune in the 12th (myself) as pertaining to addictions?
Belgianmoonguy
Well-known member
@BD
Is Neptune contacted by your personal planets or does he rule an angle in your chart?
And do you think you're prone to being addicted to anything, without consedering any astrological factors?
@Claire 19
At first, thx for replying on your thread of Emotional Intimacy
Second, Isn't Uranus in the chart of MG in Leo?
Is Neptune contacted by your personal planets or does he rule an angle in your chart?
And do you think you're prone to being addicted to anything, without consedering any astrological factors?
@Claire 19
At first, thx for replying on your thread of Emotional Intimacy
Second, Isn't Uranus in the chart of MG in Leo?
Claire19
Well-known member
Ohhhhhh sorry you are right Uranus is in Leo.....just. Second house cusp Leo, earning money from the performing arts adding to his Jupiter Sagittarius ruled 6th house. I find that Sag and Jupiter influenced people are often actors, it is the story telling and in exaggerated ways and especially in depicting differing cultures and countries.
Claire
Claire
Claire19
Well-known member
I too have a Capricorn Dad and his Moon is also there. He is a steady drinker and makes his own home brew. I think that probably he is an alcoholic but a functioning one. As you say duty, work and responsibility is paramount.
Look to see where your Dad may have 12th and Neptune aspects also.
DOes he have a love of food with the Moon in Sagittarius or overeat??
Claire
Look to see where your Dad may have 12th and Neptune aspects also.
DOes he have a love of food with the Moon in Sagittarius or overeat??
Claire
Claire19
Well-known member
Brooklyn Dave said:
We need your chart. Look at your Neptune aspects also. 12th Neptune is not necessarily an addict.....Depends on how you have evolved and what were your habits in the past. You can be a spiritual person, rather inclined to introspection and being alone to recharge the batteries. You may be a gifted healer especially with the reflexology, kirlian photography mode which would suit.
Cheers
Claire