Was astrology created to benefit people?

david starling

Well-known member
Also, Tim, if I take your belief that astrology doesn't cause anything to happen, but is rather an indication of what will happen (does everyone agree on this?) then I figure astrology is like some sort of measuring stick/system. At least, that's the analogy I draw from it. Would you agree?

I guess if we want to know who created the system and the intention behind it's creation, we should probably consider asking what exactly it measures. Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but does anyone have thoughts, theories, or answers on that?

I've postulated the "Magnetic Field Matrix" theory. In that regard, astrology is a gauge, rather than a cause. We each have our own, personal, electromagnetic field, which interacts within the cosmic Matrix.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
My own, personal opinion is, that there are tropical Ages, which are Direct-motion. So, the tropical Age of Sagittarius manifested philosophy and astrology, just as the tropical Age of Capricorn which followed has manifested mechanization, and a materialistic mindset. The tropical Aquarian Age is up next, along with the sidereal, which is Retrograde, and is transitioning from Pisces to Aquarius.
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
I believe that astrology was developed to benefit mankind, originally upon a general katarchic basis with an agricultural emphasis and only much later further adapted for natal insight, first relative to rulers of society, then eventually for individual nativities; I believe this developing pattern applied to all of the original ancient astrological systems.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I believe that astrology was developed to benefit mankind, originally upon a general katarchic basis with an agricultural emphasis and only much later further adapted for natal insight, first relative to rulers of society, then eventually for individual nativities; I believe this developing pattern applied to all of the original ancient astrological systems.
The original purpose of astrology
was to inform the individual of the course of their life :smile:

on the basis of the positions of the planets
and
of the zodiacal signs
aka the 12 astrological constellations
at the moment of birth
or
conception


.
 

IleneK

Premium Member
How could anyone actually know the original purpose of astrology?
I would surmise that it probably was a means of providing people with some ease in the midst of this challenging, fearful, glorious thing we call Life.
Looking at the images in the heavens, the constellations, the movement within them of the heavenly bodies, trying to discern what it might mean as a proxy for trying to understand life itself?
I expect that may come closer to astrology's most nascent impulses.
Informing people on the course of their life likely arose later, don't you think?
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
All,

Have you ever thought about where astrology CAME from? It clearly doesn't CAUSE anything to happen...it just indicates when things happen for PEOPLE. While there have been some attempts to create a "pet astrology" or other non-human astrology, the astrological symbolism simply doesn't match up with animals (e.g., no animals are going through a "Saturn return"). Also, astrology ONLY works on Earth: move anywhere else in the solar system and, while you will continue to experience your normal human cycles of (for example) the thirty-something years, Saturn (the planet whose return indicates on Earth the "thirty-something years") won't be in the right place to indicate anything from wherever in the solar system you are. This suggests that astrology was CREATED to be a SIGN for PEOPLE on EARTH so that they could understand both themselves and the other people around them better...sooooo WHO created it?

Wondering,

Tim

I've never been aware of this thread until just now.

I'm rather surprised at such a question coming from you Tim, but then again I'm not. The reason being is because I have a copy of your natal chart and have had it for many years. I won't divulge how I got it, or from whom and to be honest I don't quite remember as it has been such a long time, but I will assure you that it "is in the vault", that is I respect the privilege of having it, just as I respect the information I have concerning anyones' natal chart and their birth information.

I debated with myself about just remaining silent rather than replying here but it is something that I've wanted to bring up with you for many years, but have kept it to myself so as not to alarm you about my having a copy of your natal chart. I've never shared it with anyone nor even mentioned to anyone that I have a copy, or believe that I do.

First off, I agree about it only working here on Earth and that's why I doubt that we should even think about colonization of other planets, or even the Moon. As humans shouldn't be born anywhere else than on Earth and I some how have to believe that God will never allow it to happen anyways. As Rudolf Steiner believed, or knew, which I got via Trevor Ravenscroft, the House of David, that is the Virgin Mary's bloodline, which certainly Yeshu'a/Jesus is a part of, "is particularly affected by astrology".

What does that tell us? For one thing it tells me that there might be quite an underlying ulterior motive behind the recent and sudden interest, near obsession with some people and groups, as to collecting and analyzing everyone's DNA. According to Steiner, the brother of [Mariam] Mary, [Yosef] Joseph of Arimathea, and the son by her husband, Joseph, [Yakov] James, aka James the Just, the first Bishop of Jerusalem, both came to the area now known as Glastonbury, England, sometime around 42 A.D., took local women for their wives, and produced progeny. That bloodline runs in the veins in many an Englishman today, and after 2000 years of British exploration and colonization, God only knows as to where all else on earth, and among what societies, it presently exists.
How many on earth at present might be carrying such DNA? Well, that wasn't the only source of it, to begin with, there was also another two children that Mary and Joseph allegedly produced...and Mary and her brother probably weren't the only folks that were of the bloodline of the House of David. [My apologies to the Jewish people, by descent, as a whole presently if it is known that the bloodline of the House of David is known to be existent outside of those unknowns that descended from the pair that settled near present day Glastonbury. I've never looked into the matter, nor inquired, as it really isn't any of my business to do so.]



The influence of astrological forces can then be deduced that it is Gods' way of over-riding humankinds' self will. As Edgar Cayce pointed out [informed all for the first time, to be right to the point] most everyone is affected by only from three to six of the planets and that is concentrated mostly as to the number between three and four...and according to some that believe in Edgar's words, that includes the Sun and the Moon. Cayce said that there are some that are affected by even fewer and some that are affected by more, yet rare are those that are "particularly affected by astrological forces", which I'm nearly convinced means "everything above". I'm one of those, the gal that served as the inspiration that became a book that I wrote also has that "particular affection" [the archaic definition of "affection", i.e. "the act or process of affecting or being affected."]. Because I am one that is "particularly affected", which has been confirmed as a result of knowing my natal horoscope and continuously monitoring transiting influences particularly since 1984, and also in retrospective review of my entire life since birth, and because my maternal ancestors [those of the Hough/Huff lineage as my mother was born a Huff] came to Pennsylvania in 1683 from Cheshire, England, which is about 180 miles North of Glastonbury, I asked my clairvoyant friend, Clarisse Conner, if I might be of that bloodline and she said, "Yes". I then asked if it shouldn't only apply to those born from a continuous matriarchal lineage, and she said, "It's in the DNA".
As absurd as it may sound to some, even to me, as to my self, It's either cousin Jesus, or uncle Jesus, or perhaps even both?

Don't want to believe that? Well, neither do I really. I mean that I'd like not to, but Clarisse has proven herself repeatedly over the twenty years I've know her to be, as far as I have been able to verify, infallible as to matters of the past or present. She had absolutely nothing to gain by telling me that, nor has she gained anything by it, not materially, anyways.

As for how many people on Earth that might have that DNA? Consider that it is presently estimated that there are, roughly speaking, 16 million men, and that is one half of one percent of the entire worlds male population, that are directly descended from Genghis Khan, you surely can deduce that there are a great many directly descended from the two that settled in, what is now called, Glastonbury, and then add to those all others that have DNA from that ancient Hebrew bloodline, i.e., the House of David.

Thus, it can be easily deduced, or surmised, or at least it can be surely fantasized, that those that serve other than God must surely be quite anxious about that particular bloodline existing on earth and are probably interested in eradicating it? Because if it isn't, then eventually at some point in a distant future, everyone on earth will have that DNA in their blood.

Yeah, I know that it sounds like one heck of an all time, penultimate, wacko conspiracy theory, doesn't it? On top of that it's coming from some guy [some "fool", they will likely say] that also believes in and practices, that pseudo-science, astrology and believes what some crystal ball gazing, German, [i.e. Rudolf Steiner] whom hung out with that creepy Crowley, and his gang of misfits, had to say about it all... is what I might predict someone will eventually write and, or, proclaim, and then conclude with such a remark as, 'Oh my, herecticism of the first order and surely coming from the Devil his self'.

So, do I believe that astrology was "Created", and whom might I think did create it?

It is part of "THE CREATION", just as much as gravity is, that starlight is, that colours exist, that sound exists, that musical tonality exists. Yet humans compose music and paintings, and construct sounds into words thus creating languages. But does anyone believe those are unique creations solely attributable to humankind? There are allegedly Angels that have dominion over those things. If one doesn't want to believe in Angels, that's fine by me, but I'm wholly convinced of their existence. I've experienced their intervention and off such a type, beyond the imagination of many, and at such a time as that being immediately after I prayed for it, as to why I have such a conviction of belief. It is written that there are 72 Angels of the Quinaries. One for every five degrees of the Zodiac.

I've yet to meet an astrologer that claims to be an atheist. I suppose that there may be some that do exist, but I've not met any and can't fathom how one could believe that such a complex science as astrology does exist yet randomly came to be out of the resulting order that the chaos of the "Big Bang" resulted in. I find it just as hard to believe that every life form presently on earth, and all that have been but have since become extinct, the exquisitely complex biological organism that is you, and me, all came from a chemical slime pool somewhere on primeval earth when a lightning bolt struck it one day. Yet anti-creationists exist and that's what they seemingly believe.

Getting back to your natal chart, Tim. If you are aware of my thread on the Astrological Part of Hidden Identity, aka Part of Oration, and know that I've provided a number of examples form the charts of a few notable persons, and from that chart I contend and am convinced of is a true natal chart for Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth, to confirm, and establish that said Part is aptly identified as being that, and also have read my post stating what Sign and degree of the Zodiac that said Part derived from my natal chart is located at, then I can proceed. If not please take the time to read my thread about that Astrological Part, or if you have no need to, as you already are convinced of its veracity and understand its nature, then I might need to only make you aware of, or in review, that my Part of Hidden Identity, aka Part of Oration is at 15° Cancer 24' 31", conj. my natal Uranus in the exact same Sign and degree, i.e. the 16th degree of Cancer.

The Sabian Symbol for the 16th degree of Cancer, according to Dane Rudhyar and his book on the Sabian Symbols, "An Astrological Mandala, The Cycle of Transformations and Its 360 Symbolic Phases" [ here's a link: http://www.mindfire.ca/An Astrological Mandala/An Astrological Mandala - Contents.htm ] is...

"CANCER 16°: A MAN STUDYING A MANDALA IN FRONT OF HIM, WITH THE HELP OF A VERY ANCIENT BOOK.

KEYNOTE:
A deep concern with problems raised by the process of personality integration.

After a person decides to follow a certain course of action, accepting a new allegiance, the results of this decision at the three basic levels of human experience (actional, emotional-cultural and individual-mental) have to be stabilized and consolidated.
This is what is meant by the process of personality integration. In Asia the great symbol of this process is the Mandala; in the Christian world we find, in various forms, the symbol of the Cross. The Christian design is often simple and bare; it is its reference to the crucifixion of a God-man that personalizes or emotionalizes it. The Oriental Mandala can take an infinite variety of forms and can encompass a vast multiplicity of contents; it is psychological and cosmic. The square - the foundation of the Mandala - potentially encloses diverse contents. The Cross, on the other hand, represents conflict in action; it is a symbol of tragic overcoming. The Mandala symbolizes integration of opposing trends and multiple bipolar energies.

This is the first stage of the twenty-second five-fold sequence. It reveals a deep effort on the part of the individualized consciousness to reach a solid basis of understanding that will allow it to perceive the structural relationship of every part of the personality to every other part. It is a mental process implying study and an inward-turning of the attention,
CONCENTRATION; even more it is a symbol of what might at first be called CONFORMATION — that is, a profound and stabilizing sense of form, but of one's own individual form, not an external socio-cultural pattern."


Now, I hope that you are aware of the astrological Part known as the Part of Imprisonment, [Asc. + Part of Fortune - Neptune] and what it is concerned with. I have a thread on it also and I also provided some examples from the natal charts of notables, and my own chart, to substantiate and establish that it too is aptly identified. [at least enough for my own satisfaction, and that of some other people] If you have no need to be introduced to it, nor anything further about it, please allow me to inform anyone else that is reading this post that isn't so studied, or would like a review, that it has been shown to be symbolically [that is, as to the Sabian Symbol for the Sign and degree of the Zodiac that it is found in a natal chart,] to be that which one cannot embrace, approach, employ, utilize, etc., or one might say, that which one is kept from, or that it is kept from them. It might also be that which one cannot intellectually embrace, i.e. "understand"?
Although, I have wondered if one must also be affected by the transits of Neptune in order to be susceptible to this particular Astrological Part? the same goes for every Astrological Part there is. If that be the case then perhaps you can get a sense of why I believe that particular strain of DNA would be so despised by people of certain dispositions and loyalties?
However Edgar Cayce said in addition, after saying that most people are only affected by a limited number of the Planets, "...and all angles to the Ascendant", which I believe means all Astrological Parts that utilize the Asc. as the Personal Point, and if that is so, then that must surely include all those that use any House cusp as the Personal Point too.

If I actually do have your natal chart, then that is the Sabian symbol for your Part of Imprisonment, as you should find that it is in the 16th degree of Cancer. If not, then I was misled to believe that it is your natal chart. But, if it is then perhaps understanding symbolism isn't your forte? Or at the very least the Sabian Symbols?
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
Who created it or who read it? We're told that God created the stars and the planets in the Genesis. In the Sefer Yetzirah we're told that God created the universe with text, number and speech. Who then was able to interpret the "signs" of our times -- as laid out to cycle us through our allotted lifetimes.

Astrology is so nature driven that we have to understand the astronomical and seasonal constructs to truly make sense of the system. It seems to have been organically derived through observation and mathematical gymnastics that I'm certainly in awe of. My guess is that much of what the ancients invented came from the dream state or deep meditation. It existed on its own and then brought into our normative reality not unlike young Mozart channeling a complete symphony into existence.

What I wonder about is if there are atheist astrologers out there. If so, what is the philosophical basis that they operate from.

In my opinion, this is one of the best conclusions I've ever read. Not that I'm concurring with it 100%, but I can see it as being very possible that I eventually might one day.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
How could anyone actually know the original purpose of astrology?
I would surmise that it probably was a means of providing people with some ease in the midst of this challenging, fearful, glorious thing we call Life.
Looking at the images in the heavens, the constellations, the movement within them of the heavenly bodies, trying to discern what it might mean as a proxy for trying to understand life itself?
I expect that may come closer to astrology's most nascent impulses.
Informing people on the course of their life likely arose later, don't you think?


Who created it or who read it? We're told that God created the stars and the planets in the Genesis. In the Sefer Yetzirah we're told that God created the universe with text, number and speech. Who then was able to interpret the "signs" of our times -- as laid out to cycle us through our allotted lifetimes.

Astrology is so nature driven that we have to understand the astronomical and seasonal constructs to truly make sense of the system. It seems to have been organically derived through observation and mathematical gymnastics that I'm certainly in awe of. My guess is that much of what the ancients invented came from the dream state or deep meditation. It existed on its own and then brought into our normative reality not unlike young Mozart channeling a complete symphony into existence.


What I wonder about is if there are atheist astrologers out there.
In my opinion, this is one of the best conclusions I've ever read. Not that I'm concurring with it 100%, but
I can see it as being very possible that I eventually might one day.
Atheists

Theists


Agnostics :smile:



If so, what is the philosophical basis that they operate from.
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
Atheists

Theists


Agnostics :smile:

As I wrote above, just this morning, [As Mark wrote, I guess I can be such an *** and quote myself, not that I like doing it though]

"I've yet to meet an astrologer that claims to be an atheist. I suppose that there may be some that do exist, but I've not met any and can't fathom how one could believe that such a complex science as astrology does exist, yet randomly came to be, out of the resulting order that the chaos of the "Big Bang" resulted in. I find it just as hard to believe that every life form presently on earth, and all that have been but have since become extinct, the exquisitely complex biological organism that is you, and me, all came from a chemical slime pool somewhere on primeval earth when a lightning bolt struck it one day. Yet anti-creationists exist and that's what they seemingly believe."

...as to what I didn't concur with is that bit about Mozart channeling music... and his opinion that it had to have been derived through the effort of a lot of difficult mental gymnastics...or something along those lines. At the beginning of the creation of the Adamic races, we were in a state of being in a Satya Yuga, all knowledge is known, even simple beasts have the ability to talk. It takes a lot of mental effort to even grasp a portion of it presently, some are incapable of even getting a piece of it. Give us time, we'll be back in a Satya Yuga again one day, that is if we don't blow the entire world up before we are.
The Devil has been working overtime trying to get us to do just that.
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
I should have pointed out the contradiction in the statement that it was invented and then saying that it had already existed and that it was brought into existence as like how channeling works.

It was brought into recorded form, communicative form, illustrated form, from the minds that perceived its existence. Man didn't invent it, no more than man invented how a child is conceived [naturally of course] we didn't invent a blue coloured sky, we didn't invent the wetness of water, or that it turns solid at a certain temperature.

The only thing we have invented as far as any of that is concerned is an arrogance from believing it needs us to exist.
 

IleneK

Premium Member
I should have pointed out the contradiction in the statement that it was invented and then saying that it had already existed and that it was brought into existence as like how channeling works.

It was brought into recorded form, communicative form, illustrated form, from the minds that perceived its existence. Man didn't invent it, no more than man invented how a child is conceived [naturally of course] we didn't invent a blue coloured sky, we didn't invent the wetness of water, or that it turns solid at a certain temperature.

The only thing we have invented as far as any of that is concerned is an arrogance from believing it needs us to exist.


I respectfully acknowledge this is a very interesting way to see the matter, even though I see astrology as a product of human imagination. I do not assert that how I see it is true, only that it is how I see it. I thank you for taking the time to so thoughtfully layout how you see it.
 

david starling

Well-known member
I respectfully acknowledge this is a very interesting way to see the matter, even though I see astrology as a product of human imagination. I do not assert that how I see it is true, only that it is how I see it. I thank you for taking the time to so thoughtfully layout how you see it.

Don't forget human intelligence and intuition--the ability to make measurements and recognize correlations between what happens on Earth and what happens in the Heavens.
 
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