Hi guys, I very new to on Vedic astrology, probably 2 days old. Basically, I have been reading my Western natal chart and now that I have plotted out my Lagna chart, I am so very confused. My ascendant was in Gemini Tropically and now its in Taurus in Sidreal calculations. And I am really nothing like a Taurus, but very much like a Gemini. Also I have my Venus, Mercury and Mars in Virgo in Western chart but now I have 5 planets (Sun, Venus, Mercury,Mars and Juipter) all sitting in my 4th House of Leo. I have been trying to figure out these implications as compared to what I understand from Western astrology but it's simply confusing for my current standard. Will someone please enlighten me? Thanks!
Vedic vs. Western Astrology
- Thread starter Porpitaa
- Start date
I'm not sure that your question is answerable in a paragraph or less. However, if you are interested in getting into this I can recommend a very fine book. Its entitled Ancient Hindu Astrology for the Modern Western Astrologer.(ttp://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Astrology-Modern-Western-Astrologer/dp/0935895043/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1370285940&sr=1-3&keywords=james+braha)
This book will not make you a Vedic astrologer by any stretch of the imagination, and as one reviewer on Amazon called it, "getting your feet wet in a very shallow pool", it is only a basic introduction. Its probably like Linda Goodman's Sun Signs book.
But if you are really interested, it is a way to get your feet wet.
The real Vedic Astrologers, of which there are many skilled on this sub forum, are the real experts. I am very knowledgable about tropical astrology but know very little about Vedic.
I hope one of these venerable sages steps in with a comment.
This book will not make you a Vedic astrologer by any stretch of the imagination, and as one reviewer on Amazon called it, "getting your feet wet in a very shallow pool", it is only a basic introduction. Its probably like Linda Goodman's Sun Signs book.
But if you are really interested, it is a way to get your feet wet.
The real Vedic Astrologers, of which there are many skilled on this sub forum, are the real experts. I am very knowledgable about tropical astrology but know very little about Vedic.
I hope one of these venerable sages steps in with a comment.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Hi Porpitaa - until a venerable sage comments - my fraction of a euro/two cent's worth follows
It's important to have a reasonably reliable time of birth that is based on medical records, because if the time of birth is inaccurate then the ascendant is not correct.
As well as that factor to consider
Remember that Sidereal and Tropical are just alternative ways of measuring one Earth orbit around the sun, that's their basic difference.
i.e.
A Sidereal year measures Earth's orbit around the sun against a background of the fixed stars. Sidereal astrological charts take the background of fixed stars into account.
Tropical year measures Earth's orbit around the sun against the passing of the seasons. Tropical astrologers are 'seasonal'
This video explains the idea with graphic illustrations very simply in a way that is easy to understand http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-DYgGFjI&feature=related
Some astrologers prefer Sidereal, some prefer Tropical – neither is 'right' or 'wrong' – each measures an Earth year differently. The subject is a frequent topic on our forum - for example http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45142&highlight=sidereal
Hi,
Thank you for your recommendation. It would be great if you can share your knowledge on Western astrology, since from what I have read, it is more of interpreting ones psychological nature rather than what Vedic do that holds more predictive nature. Is that true? So in my case, being Gemini ascendant means my outgoing personality is a bubbly, talkative and capricious one & Taurus rising in Vedic simply sheds light on t life events in my life? Thank you!
Hi Porpitaa - until a venerable sage comments - my fraction of a euro/two cent's worth follows
It's important to have a reasonably reliable time of birth that is based on medical records, because if the time of birth is inaccurate then the ascendant is not correct.
As well as that factor to consider
Remember that Sidereal and Tropical are just alternative ways of measuring one Earth orbit around the sun, that's their basic difference.
i.e.
A Sidereal year measures Earth's orbit around the sun against a background of the fixed stars. Sidereal astrological charts take the background of fixed stars into account.
Tropical year measures Earth's orbit around the sun against the passing of the seasons. Tropical astrologers are 'seasonal'
This video explains the idea with graphic illustrations very simply in a way that is easy to understand http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-DYgGFjI&feature=related
Some astrologers prefer Sidereal, some prefer Tropical – neither is 'right' or 'wrong' – each measures an Earth year differently. The subject is a frequent topic on our forum - for example http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45142&highlight=sidereal
Hi,
Thank you for the sharing
Hi Dr. Farr,
How do you find this approach to astrology? Is it consistent and give better implications and results? How does this method differs from pure Tropical/Sidereal methods? Do you think there are weakness in both systems? Sorry I'm being really curious over here and pardon my ignorance ;b
Shanti
Well-known member
My feeling is that the western chart is reflecting personality quite good in many cases.
The sidereal chart is sometimes more the birds Eye look in a way.
Take for example one of the greates poets Charles Baudelaire's chart which hold a stellium with 6-7 planets in pisces, the sign of the poet in his sidereal chart.
While a lot of the planets placed in aries in the tropical western chart.
He showed a lot of aries traits in his personality appearantly.
Not a soft personality as pisces might suggest.
Also the dignities in sidereal is important and functions well within that system.
¨
Simplified explanation of course but I feel there may be something about it.
As for the Gemini ascendents (sidereal Taurus) I have seen many many people who are very talkable and communacative, but also very practical people.
Two of my friends with this ascendent. One is a hardworking painter and handyman. Loves gardening. Very communacitive and versatil.
The other one is also very talkative and so on, but also a very practical person.
Living in the country and Always buisy in the garden.
The sidereal chart is sometimes more the birds Eye look in a way.
Take for example one of the greates poets Charles Baudelaire's chart which hold a stellium with 6-7 planets in pisces, the sign of the poet in his sidereal chart.
While a lot of the planets placed in aries in the tropical western chart.
He showed a lot of aries traits in his personality appearantly.
Not a soft personality as pisces might suggest.
Also the dignities in sidereal is important and functions well within that system.
¨
Simplified explanation of course but I feel there may be something about it.
As for the Gemini ascendents (sidereal Taurus) I have seen many many people who are very talkable and communacative, but also very practical people.
Two of my friends with this ascendent. One is a hardworking painter and handyman. Loves gardening. Very communacitive and versatil.
The other one is also very talkative and so on, but also a very practical person.
Living in the country and Always buisy in the garden.
This is not true. However a further discussion of this on the VEDIC ONLY sub forum is not appropriate. I am PM-ing you with my answer. Perhaps you could move the discussion about western astrology's prediction to one of the prediction sub forums.
Shanti
Well-known member
Forgot to mentioning two of my relatives with a tropical Gemini/sidereal Taurus
ascendent.
My wife's sister got this.
She's very intelligent and articulate, loves games and such.(Gemini)
But she's an graduate gardener who owned a flower and plant store for a decade.
My own sister got this.
Not so intellectual and intellectual, more of a security minded person.
Lives in the country side and loves the slow quiteness.
I don't mind using tropical measurements for doing vedic techniques, but
feel that some of the people using this approach, is way out of bounds when
hinting that the sidereal zodiac is an illusion.
ascendent.
My wife's sister got this.
She's very intelligent and articulate, loves games and such.(Gemini)
But she's an graduate gardener who owned a flower and plant store for a decade.
My own sister got this.
Not so intellectual and intellectual, more of a security minded person.
Lives in the country side and loves the slow quiteness.
I don't mind using tropical measurements for doing vedic techniques, but
feel that some of the people using this approach, is way out of bounds when
hinting that the sidereal zodiac is an illusion.
Historically, in the West, while SIGNS have been used at least since the time of Claudius Ptolemy, fact is that use of stars and constellations (including the zodiacal constellations) was at one time (at least) ALSO widely practiced (really only started to fade around the Reformation period in the West) Now, one did not supplant the other, rather one (the signs) were looked at as "fixed", and the other, the stars/constellations (and other asterisms, ie the Lunar Mansions-known as "nakshatras" in the East) were looked at as dynamic or variable. For example, say the ascending degree were in the SIGN of Taurus-well that would be a Taurus ascendant; but say also that this ascending degree were near (conjunct) a star belonging to the CONSTELLATION of Aries: in this situation the oldtimers would have said that the ascendant in this case were Taurus, but MODIFIED by Aries, via the Aries constellation member-star that the ascending degree were conjunct with.
Now, contemporary hard core siderealists just reject the signs outright-claim they are an historical error-and only consider the constellations; but the oldtimers (in the West) while giving primacy to the signs also accorded due consideration to the stars/constellations, when these conjoined important horoscopic points, and when they conjoined planets.
Personally I think this now long forgotten outlook, is superior in its delineative results, to the pro/con partisanship which has come to dominate this issue...
Now, contemporary hard core siderealists just reject the signs outright-claim they are an historical error-and only consider the constellations; but the oldtimers (in the West) while giving primacy to the signs also accorded due consideration to the stars/constellations, when these conjoined important horoscopic points, and when they conjoined planets.
Personally I think this now long forgotten outlook, is superior in its delineative results, to the pro/con partisanship which has come to dominate this issue...
Last edited:
Some brief answers to your questions: keep investigating this!
Hi Dr. Jarr,
Thank you for all the enlightenment! I will try to study both methods in depth and perhaps be able to form my own conclusions one day
Hmm does this have to do with the degree in which your ascendent is in? I remember reading somewhere, the later the degree the less of that sign you display but overlapping nature of the next house will be more prominant.
Shanti
Well-known member
Yes, the sidereal zodiac have been used since ancient times and is used by millions, if taking the Eastern continents people who consult sidereal astrologers.
I feel this rejection of the sidereal zodiac by these new 'vedic tropicalists' is a pity. It feels almost like a new "cult" with the talk about a "new era" and so on
Its slightly insulting to all these generations and generations of people ( and yogis too) who have used this zodiac for ages. Black and White thinking.And it works.
Yesterday i worked with sigmund Freuds chart.
He actually discovered the 'theory of the unconsious' 1901, in the subperiod (current Active planet) of Mercury. Mercury is 12th ruler of the unconsciousness placed in
the 8th house. Precisely the combination that makes him an psychologist.
10th ruler Moon in 8th house as well. A fitting combination for a psychologist.
Sidereal chart of Sigmund Freud below:
Attachments
Last edited:
Ryan Kurczak
Well-known member
That kind of question is a very debatable one. Having so many planets in a sign, as you mentioned, doesn't help.
There is a lot more to it than just ascendants. Personally I used the sidereal for about 10 years before I switched over to tropical. Now I still do Vedic Astrology but with the tropical zodiac.
Also, the sidereal zodiac hasn't been used since ancient times, except for certain things. The sidereal became popular after a mistake around the beginning of the millennium.
One of the oldest books on astrology, the Surya Sidhanta, mentions the sidereal for certain calculations but not for creating the birth chart. The tropical was intended to be used.
It's all fascinating.
Also, what makes it hard to determine is that it is easy to see things from many angles and in retrospect even easier to find a reason for why a person is a certain way or a certain event happened using any system. There are just too many variables, and we as humans don't have enough time to research the thorough ins and outs of every chart and harmonic chart to really prove the "right" way. Yes I do believe there is a right way. But as it stands now, no matter what system you use, the astrologers intuition provides the accuracy.
It is my sense that all astrologies have a bit of the puzzle and that there is only one astrology and we are slowly figuring out that original system. Just some thoughts.
There is a lot more to it than just ascendants. Personally I used the sidereal for about 10 years before I switched over to tropical. Now I still do Vedic Astrology but with the tropical zodiac.
Also, the sidereal zodiac hasn't been used since ancient times, except for certain things. The sidereal became popular after a mistake around the beginning of the millennium.
One of the oldest books on astrology, the Surya Sidhanta, mentions the sidereal for certain calculations but not for creating the birth chart. The tropical was intended to be used.
It's all fascinating.
Also, what makes it hard to determine is that it is easy to see things from many angles and in retrospect even easier to find a reason for why a person is a certain way or a certain event happened using any system. There are just too many variables, and we as humans don't have enough time to research the thorough ins and outs of every chart and harmonic chart to really prove the "right" way. Yes I do believe there is a right way. But as it stands now, no matter what system you use, the astrologers intuition provides the accuracy.
It is my sense that all astrologies have a bit of the puzzle and that there is only one astrology and we are slowly figuring out that original system. Just some thoughts.
Last edited:
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
There are opposing claims that Tropical astrology is also 'mistaken' – however Sidereal and Tropical are simply two different ways to measure the time it takes planet earth to orbit the Sun as the video I posted earlier on this thread explains and basically everyone is entitled to their own opinion regarding which to use
Kenneth Bowser is one of the growing number of Western Sidereal astrologers http://www.westernsiderealastrology.com/
'…...Solunars.com furthers Sidereal astrology study. “Solunars” honors pioneering work of Cyril Fagan’s 17-year continuous series introducing/forwarding Sidereal astrology in American Astrology Magazine 1953 until Fagan's death in 1970.
Site provides education concerning Sidereal astrology, a forum for the intelligent and progressive discussion of Sidereal astrology and (either on this main site, or in the companion forum) is a convenient place to post fragments of Jim Ershelman's own writings as interpretive guides.
For those unfamiliar with Sidereal zodiac/Sidereal astrology, I recommend beginning with
'A Brief Look at the Sidereal Zodiac' and 'There Really Is a Zodiac!' …..' http://solunars.net/viewforum.php?f=2
Kenneth Bowser is one of the growing number of Western Sidereal astrologers http://www.westernsiderealastrology.com/
'…...Solunars.com furthers Sidereal astrology study. “Solunars” honors pioneering work of Cyril Fagan’s 17-year continuous series introducing/forwarding Sidereal astrology in American Astrology Magazine 1953 until Fagan's death in 1970.
Site provides education concerning Sidereal astrology, a forum for the intelligent and progressive discussion of Sidereal astrology and (either on this main site, or in the companion forum) is a convenient place to post fragments of Jim Ershelman's own writings as interpretive guides.
For those unfamiliar with Sidereal zodiac/Sidereal astrology, I recommend beginning with
'A Brief Look at the Sidereal Zodiac' and 'There Really Is a Zodiac!' …..' http://solunars.net/viewforum.php?f=2
Shanti
Well-known member
Note. No sidereal/tropical debate intended here as I Believe that the tropical
zodiac have value.
No but it helps in Charles Baudelaire's chart (one of the greatest poets in history of literature) To have these mega stellium in the sign of pisces incuding the planet of poetry venus exalted there.
It helps to have 3rd lord of art in vedic exalted (venus) and Jupiter strong in dignity in own sign pisces. Jupiter is 5th lord of creativity.
That helps a bit......
http://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1352380654/0
How can one be so sure about what happened at that time so long ago, that one is able to
state that tropical is the 'original astrology'
I think this is debatable. I would not make so etch in stone blank statements.
No
For example:
Hitlers chart have sun (leadership and presidency) exalted in aries sidereally,
and mars planet of war in aries in own sign dignified. This is very clearcut.
And easy to use.
Just look at the many charts.......
Good luck
I respect your opinions but do not share them....
zodiac have value.
No but it helps in Charles Baudelaire's chart (one of the greatest poets in history of literature) To have these mega stellium in the sign of pisces incuding the planet of poetry venus exalted there.
It helps to have 3rd lord of art in vedic exalted (venus) and Jupiter strong in dignity in own sign pisces. Jupiter is 5th lord of creativity.
That helps a bit......
http://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1352380654/0
How can one be so sure about what happened at that time so long ago, that one is able to
state that tropical is the 'original astrology'
I think this is debatable. I would not make so etch in stone blank statements.
No
For example:
Hitlers chart have sun (leadership and presidency) exalted in aries sidereally,
and mars planet of war in aries in own sign dignified. This is very clearcut.
And easy to use.
Just look at the many charts.......
Good luck
I respect your opinions but do not share them....
Last edited: