Serial killers

I originally posted this question a few weeks ago on a different thread. It didn't get any response there. I thought it was a very interesting topic worthy of it's own thread.

A couple of years ago I saw a show on TV about the validity of astrology. To test it, they gave a group of professional astrologers birthcharts of famous serial killers - Jeffrey Dahmer, Son of Sam, etc. BUT they did not put any name or personal information on it -just the charts themselves. All of the astrologers correctly identified them as "serial killer" types. Some of them even were able to identify what types of crimes each one would be likely to commit - and were correct. It was the biggest "pat-on-the-back" I'd seen astrology get on public TV.

I was stunned! Has anybody else seen that show? I think it would be interesting to get ahold of some of those charts and study them. What do y'all think?

Yes if we could get the killer's dates of birth it would be very fascinating to look at them. I was reading something last night which had a lot of murderers with Saturn in the 1st. Which is my placement. But I think you would need a lot of Mars and Pluto influence to be a murderer (just trying to rule myself out here ). I would definitely want to look at some charts.

Shining Ray

That's okay, Shining Ray. On the original thread (Characters Signs), Lynns described what she thought Hannibal Lechter's chart might be, and she pretty much described mine!

However, the thought DID hit me about your Saturn in the 1st, that it may have to do with repressed anger, maybe especially that that you are "out of touch" with? Repressed anger is a big cause of depression and feeling out of focus. (And serial killing.)

Sorry, I couldn't resist a little joke. It's all that Sag,Cappy, and Aquarius floating around in me. (Which according to Lynns, is the making of a diabolical madman.) (Sorry, Lynns, another joke.)

Oh ha ha ha

But seriously I have looked at your chart freedomlover and the Hannibal lector theory might not be too far off. You are very intelligent and your Mercury in the 12th/square Saturn indicates your hidden and long thought out murderous plans, which then links up to your Uranus/Pluto conjunction in the 8th which sends you intensely erratic and verrry unpredictable and all this tension needing release somehow and this is when you search out your next victim to kill (pluto/uranus 8th). I have reported you to the police and they have been watching what you post on here very carefully. I would watch your step if I were you.

Shining Ray

P.S With all this interest in studying murderers charts as well. Only confirms our suspicions about you on this forum.

Ooooohhhh. I'm shakin' in my boots.

freedomlover said:

All of the astrologers correctly identified them as "serial killer" types. <snip> I think it would be interesting to get ahold of some of those charts and study them.

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I haven't seen that show
but it would be interesting to know what they saw.

Here are some serials ...

- Theodore "Ted" Robert BUNDY
born 1946/11/24 @10:35pm USA,VT,Chittendon-Co,Burlington
executed 1989/01/24 @7:15am USA,FL,Bradford-Co,Starke
(killed at least 16 women)

- Clifford Robert OLSON
born 1940/01/01 @10:10pm Canada,BC,Vancouver
(killed 11 teenagers in 1980-1981)

- Paul BERNARDO
born 1964/08/27 @11:20am Canada,ON,Toronto,Scarborough
... with his wife as accomplice
Karla HOMOLKA born 1970/05/04 (@ 7:01 or 7:40 am ?) Canada,ON,St.Catherines
("Ken & Barbie" murderers)

I don't have birth times for the following ones ...

- Dennis Lyn RADER, aka=BTK
born 1945/03/09 USA,KS,Kanasa-City

- David BERKOWITZ, aka=Son of Sam
born 1953/06/01 USA,NY,Brooklyn

- Edward Theodore GEIN
born 1906/08/27 USA,WI,LaCrosse
("Psycho" movie based on him)

- Andrei Romanovich CHIKATILO
born 1936/10/16 USSR,Yablochnoye
executed 1994/02/14 USSR,Rostov-on-Don
(killed at least 52 people)

- Peter KURTEN
born 1883/05/26 Germany,Cologne
executed 1931/07/02 @6am
(killed at least 9 people)

---

LOL, this is too funny
Serial killer astrologers are the most lethal.. they get to know stuff 'behind-the-scenes' that real-world science would overlook, and thus it makes it easier to thwart plans on the surface

I was wondering when you were going to jump in, Lynns.

Hey, Picnic!

You sure have alot of information on serial killers! Watch out! Shining Ray will have the police watching you, too!

No, really... thanks for the info.

Astrologers! Unite! We have serial killers' charts to work on.

Here is another Serial Killer to add to the list. The most dangerous one of all. This "lady" has killed over 500 people or possibly more. She is known as the Zodiac Killer, she prowls around on Astrology forums looking for her next victim. She likes to go by the name freedom lover because she still hasn't been caught yet. But I believe the police are closing in on this lady's whereabouts. Astrologically she has Neptune in the 10th house and Saturn in Pisces which makes her even more dangerous as she believes she is carrying out "God's Work" with her killings.

Name: Freedomlover
Picture Below:

D.O.B:28th November 1965
Time of birth 9.32

(Just kidding )

P.S I will get back to astrology now. Thanks for all Birth Data Picnic can't wait to have a look at their charts.

Shining Ray

I hear they have a lot of 12th house stuff. I have to look some of these charts up.

I have looked at the Clifford Robert Olson chart. At first it was difficult to point to violent tendencies. Until I seen his Pluto in Leo is square his North Node in the 2nd house and Saturn in Aries 8th. I had a quick look at his information on the net and the title "Cash for bodies" came up, with his North Node in 2nd (money) square Pluto (death) it would seem to fit this description. Clifford's North Node also opposed his Saturn in 8th house also brings in more of a Pluto connection with death.

Clifford's Mars is the only planet in water and it is at the 28th degree, Mars is in conjunction with Jupiter and the conjunction opposes Neptune in his first house. The Mars/Jupiter squares Mercury i.e young people can be represented by the planet Mercury.

Pluto which Squares both his North Node/2nd and Saturn/Aries/8th also opposes his Venus in 5th in Aquarius.

With all this I am thinking BIG Sexual Confusion Mars/Pisces Conjunction to Jupiter in Aries Opposition to Neptune in first. Also not 100% on this but is it a t.square involved with this opposition squaring Mercury in the 4th. And with Venus in detached Aquarius 5th house Opposing Pluto. May add to the abuse and murder of young people.

Wasn't he quite talented in defending himself writing for his own case. Virgo Asc/Gemini M.C Jupiter/Mars in 7th legal battle. Fighting to defend himself with the Law. I have only looked quickly at his case and will read more up on it later. If I have any placements/aspects wrong please correct me.

Shining Ray

With this BIG sexual confusion within himself and with relationships. He seeks his power complex by controlling (Saturn) sexually in (Aries) in 8th house abuse. Saturn also square to Pluto oppose Venus in 5th Sexual control of younger people. The T.square of this sexual confusion points to Mercury (young people again). The abuse involved boys and girls there is obviously a sexual confusion which he acts out. Sorry to be graphic but I am remaining detached while reading the murder cases it is not very nice to read.

Shining Ray

Just one question when looking at murderers charts. There are lots of babies born in the same place at the same time. Why don't they turn out to be a murderer. Is it how we use our energy. What makes the difference in the chart. I suppose each soul is different and while they have the same energies they act it out differently.

Shining Ray

freedomlover said:

A couple of years ago I saw a show on TV about the validity of astrology. To test it, they gave a group of professional astrologers birthcharts of famous serial killers

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I just came across another controlled test regarding occupations that did not have such good results.

http://www.skepsis.nl/astrot.html

free will and research methodology

I see the natal chart and transits as only probabilities. We are given instincts and planetary energies but it is up to each individual how and if to use them. A more highly evolved soul is going to use the energy in a way that is very different from a less evolved person. We can choose to work the dark or light side of our charts, it is our choice. And even so called difficult transits can be very beneficial to an evolved soul, as they know how to ride the tough energy, like riding a wave, not fighting it.

Also two babies born at the same time and in the same place are going to manifest the energy differently according to their specific past lives and history. They also have different families and environments in this lifetime. Souls are life snowflakes, no two are the same.

Also I would like to comment on the very interesting research article. First of all, astrologers are mistaken when they say that personality tests are not valid measures of human traits. There are many psychological tests that are quite valid and reliable as measures of personality. Introversion and extroversion is a good example of things that tests can measure quite well. The problem is the astrological research is still in its infancy and is much too simplified. This is common in any beginning research, which like anything else has to evolve to reflect the complexities of the field. Also as an aside I would not have used subject self report as one of the measures in this study as it is notoriously unreliable.

My interest in the subject of serial killers, mass murderers like Hitler and anyone who falls into the category of harming other living beings intentionally lies in the question of fate versus free will. I had an old friend who committed suicide just a month ago by hanging himself. Mutual friends of mine and his talked about how ashamed it was and i couldn't help but think he was ready to go or it was his time. I say this to say that from a point of view that if we find aspects in common for suicide or serial killers in natal charts, how much of this is fated? The point about how someone who chooses to deal with such a fate handed to them in this incarnation is interesting. I think we do have free will and i also think that Hitler's fate was to take lives to further his belief in the superiority of one race over another. What's striking to me is how much the people allowed this to happen. It's like when i hear people blame a leader of a country for the woes of said country. I try to encourage people in seeing that the leader was chosen by the people, even if only by a slight majority as seems now a days prevalent.
I may have gone too far astray from the topic here but my point is that we don't know what karma is being worked through by individuals and nations on this planet. That's the mystery of it. Modern research studies have shown common aspects in groups of serial killers as i have also read studies on school shootings and there were common aspects in the charts of children who died and other aspects in the charts of those who survived. (I think at least one of these studies is posted in the ARJ website) I've also read about aspects that Popes have in common. I have been fascinated by this type of research and want to know as much as i can. And seeing overwhelming tendancies emerge as prevalent in charts of people who have committed acts of murder is proof to me that these people too are here serving some purpose, not that i advocate murder at all as i believe like Ghandi who said "an eye for an eye leaves both blind." The natal chart gives us a blueprint, a map and we have a choice, it's both.
These types of discussions help to broaden us to how destiny plays out through what we come here with. And i believe our souls are divine and during each incarnation we learn and grow. Sometimes the lessons are hard but evil and good are shadows of one another and i don't know if i can agree with the assesment that people who are extremely inclined to destroy other life have complete freedom to choose not to do so. I think the hook is that we are scared of death. And this is where i have been working lately in my own process around trusting in what is and becoming less quick to see war and violence as a sign that humanity will never learn to get along. We're in it together and when we come together, things will change. If we always do what we've always done, we'll always get what we've always gotten.

I agree with both Cassie and Astronomy, it is the souls choice how he manifests the aspects in his chart. When looking at a Murderers chart and a victims chart there can be a lot of similarities. Would their energies be drawn together. Like a Mars Pluto aspect could bring violence or abuse and the person with the aspect could either attract Violence to themselves or be violent to others.

I have Venus square Pluto, with this aspect I could either be controlling or abusive in love. Or have a partner who controls me and is manipulative. With this aspect being mine I can either play the Pluto role in love or the Venus.

If my soul wants to grow I would need to turn this aspect into a transformation of love, learn to let go of holding onto love and find the love within me. Only then can I truly experience a deep and pure love.

The soul ultimately decides his destiny. Or are there certain things in life which are destined for us?

Shining Ray

Shining Ray said:

Or are there certain things in life which are destined for us?

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Too often people try to make things black & white ...
I find real life has many other colours

So I believe there is an element of destiny that co-exists with free will. An example ...
let us say it is fated that I will be in New York City on September 11.
But free will allows me certain options such as:
- which day to arrive
- which method of travel
- who will I travel with, etc.

FYI ... The great physicist Albert EINSTEIN understood the different dimensions of time & space better than anyone & it was his expressed belief that there was NO free will.

Yes a good way to look at it. I do believe we are meant to die at a certain time. But if you commit suicide you are taking free will into your own hands, deciding to end your own life.

This is what puzzles me if your life is destined out to a certain degree and you take your own life. The people you were meant to meet up with in your lifetime i.e your life partner perhaps, what happens to their destiny, because their love in the future has killed themselves. Would another person be lined up for them. Or have I just overcomplicated things

Shining Ray