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Electional and Event Astrology Discuss here astrologically good times to do things, and what's happening astrologically when something major happens. Includes sports astrology.


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Unread 02-12-2012, 05:32 AM
siren1111 siren1111 is offline
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Whiteney Houston's Death

Hi. I didn't know where to post this. I can't believe that Whitney took her own life. I have her chart here. She has her Sun in Leo, Ascendant Pisces, Moon in Aries. She has a lot of planets in Virgo as well. Mercury, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto in Virgo. What happened?? Saturn and Mars in Virgo is retrograde right now.
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Unread 02-12-2012, 08:58 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: Whiteney Houston's Death

Notice her natal Saturn (rx in 12th house, house of self-undoing) has just turned retrograde in transit of her natal 8th house sign, Libra AND is on the degree in Libra in her natal 8th house (ie the 29th degree of Libra) where her natal Lilith is posited. Notice also that (by Pauline profection) her ascendant has profected into her natal 12th house (containing the rx natal Saturn) during her current 48th year of life.
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Unread 02-12-2012, 01:25 PM
silverfish silverfish is offline
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Re: Whiteney Houston's Death

Her natal Mars is 8.5 degrees Libra. Transitting Pluto in Capricorn has just squared it, and among other transits Mars is 21 degrees Virgo and its antiscion 9 degrees Aries.

This is just an observation, not the last word on anything, but I have noticed many times that suicides are associated with heavy transits and arcs to natal Mars.
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Unread 02-12-2012, 09:44 PM
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Re: Whiteney Houston's Death

Quote:
Originally Posted by siren1111 View Post
Hi. I didn't know where to post this. I can't believe that Whitney took her own life. I have her chart here. She has her Sun in Leo, Ascendant Pisces, Moon in Aries. She has a lot of planets in Virgo as well. Mercury, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto in Virgo. What happened?? Saturn and Mars in Virgo is retrograde right now.
It seems she drowned. A fine line with someone with her history to really say if she intended to die. Mars conjunct Neptune in the 8th relates to water death, in transit but no natal aspect there. Saturn is transitting the 8th but no strong aspects there. However Mars from the 8th is squaring Venus in Leo 6th and she had been partying at the hotel and she probably had too much to drink and along with her sedatives caused her to lapse into unconsciousness.

It is the Uranus inconjunct Uranus in Aries from the 1st to the 6th Uranus in VIrgo, that lends to the accommodations, hotels area. I feel that is the stronger influence, the shockwaves it has sent out and as she was in rehab and seemed happy with herself Mercury conjunct Pluto in the 7th of counselling. it seemed surprising.

Transits that have no natal echo are not really significant, certainly not to the extent of anyone's demise.


It may not ever be really known what really transpired and that is the Neptune in the 8th involved for no final conclusion perhaps???.
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Last edited by Claire19; 02-12-2012 at 10:18 PM.
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Unread 02-12-2012, 09:50 PM
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Re: Whiteney Houston's Death

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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Her natal Mars is 8.5 degrees Libra. Transitting Pluto in Capricorn has just squared it, and among other transits Mars is 21 degrees Virgo and its antiscion 9 degrees Aries.

This is just an observation, not the last word on anything, but I have noticed many times that suicides are associated with heavy transits and arcs to natal Mars.
Her natal Pluto does not aspect Mars. The transit from the 10th to the 7th/8th cusp points more to her public image and reputation and the drug taking and the effect it had on her relationship with the general public, as a performer. She had a violent partnership and that is seen with the Mars and Pluto involving the 7th. Mercury conjunct Pluto in the 7th and transitting indicates counselling and consultation about her problems.
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Last edited by Claire19; 02-12-2012 at 09:58 PM.
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Unread 02-12-2012, 10:27 PM
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Re: Whiteney Houston's Death

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Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
Notice her natal Saturn (rx in 12th house, house of self-undoing) has just turned retrograde in transit of her natal 8th house sign, Libra AND is on the degree in Libra in her natal 8th house (ie the 29th degree of Libra) where her natal Lilith is posited. Notice also that (by Pauline profection) her ascendant has profected into her natal 12th house (containing the rx natal Saturn) during her current 48th year of life.
But Saturn transitting is not making any aspects and her natal Saturn is not being affected. All that you state points to the potentials but they are not being triggered. I dont know what Pauline profection is but again the Saturn rx is not being aspected at all.

The aspects that I have stated are enough for a demise of her kind

Mars Scorpio 8th square Venus Leo 6th,
Uranus in Aries from the 1st inconjunct Uranus Virgo to the 6th. All pointing to her partying at the hotel and her demise there. It may be a mix of alcohol and relaxants caused her to fall unconscious but I believe she did not do it deliberately.

There may be other subtleties I am not acquainted with but this is my method and it works. That she was in rehab and having counselling yet once again is evidenced by the Mercury conjunct Pluto in the 7th.

So lets agree to disagree.
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Last edited by Claire19; 02-19-2012 at 04:32 AM.
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Unread 02-12-2012, 10:39 PM
claudette claudette is offline
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Re: Whiteney Houston's Death

A tragedy, however she died. What a voice! And a challenging chart to begin with, I would say: retro sat in the 12th, 2 planet pairings in fire, Nep in Scorp in the 8th, and all that virgo-with Merc conj Pluto-in the 7th. Interesting, all four main astroids are in her 7th: Pallas, Juno in Virgo, Ceres and Vesta in libra. I know it's crazy, but I sometimes think of those 4 astroids as our sisters, trying to help us out.

In progressions, her P. NN was now square her natal Moon, her prog. Moon now conj. her n. SN, square n. Jup.

In her solar return, Sat was right on her ASC, in the 12th, and her p. Jup was on her SR DSC. Her p. SN 17 cancer was on her SR MC. SR Merc 29 Leo retro exactly oppos. SR Nep 29 Aquar. When Sat went retro, it sextiled and trined this aspect.

Very sad. I hope her daughter has strong, loving people beside her.
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Unread 02-12-2012, 11:15 PM
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Re: Whiteney Houston's Death

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Originally Posted by claudette View Post
A tragedy, however she died. What a voice! And a challenging chart to begin with, I would say: retro sat in the 12th, 2 planet pairings in fire, Nep in Scorp in the 8th, and all that virgo-with Merc conj Pluto-in the 7th. Interesting, all four main astroids are in her 7th: Pallas, Juno in Virgo, Ceres and Vesta in libra. I know it's crazy, but I sometimes think of those 4 astroids as our sisters, trying to help us out.

In progressions, her P. NN was now square her natal Moon, her prog. Moon now conj. her n. SN, square n. Jup.

In her solar return, Sat was right on her ASC, in the 12th, and her p. Jup was on her SR DSC. Her p. SN 17 cancer was on her SR MC. SR Merc 29 Leo retro exactly oppos. SR Nep 29 Aquar. When Sat went retro, it sextiled and trined this aspect.

Very sad. I hope her daughter has strong, loving people beside her.
I agree. I am so sad.
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Unread 02-13-2012, 02:56 AM
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Re: Whiteney Houston's Death

not sure what claire is referring to with mars square to venus.. maybe she meant to say something else... but if you want to bring neptune together with mars, go for the neptune/uranus midpoint.. mars is sitting right there..

what astro to explain her untimely death? she has had drug problems for years... where do you put that? i think looking at saturn is quite relevant.. it rules the 12th house and that is where it sits in her chart..

saturn in the 12th and mars in the 8th.. t saturn is at the midpoint by 45.. this is relevant to me.. the midheaven/descendant midpoint at 28 libra 24 - a degree off the transit of saturnas well.. solar arc pluto is presently at 28 libra 01, so same deal but with an outer..

sp ascendant squares onto saturn here as well..
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Unread 02-13-2012, 04:22 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: Whiteney Houston's Death

Note that transiting Saturn (current 29 Libra, in a pitted degree) is exactly conjunct her natal Lilith; which is posited at the end of her natal 8th house (with transiting Saturn-through her natal 8th house and transit conjunct her natal Lilith-itself being dispositor of her natal 12th house)-in my opinion a potent influence!
Note also that Sun is transiting her natal 12th house (and in its detriment), as another factor with the above Saturn and Lilith related factors at the time of death.
Another pre-setting factor is the transit of the Sun over her natal (12th house placed) Saturn just 2 days before her passing; the transiting Sun was still within orb of transit-activation (by conjunction) of her natal Saturn, at the time of her death.

I shall add that these are just additional observations regarding possible activating factors; I absolutely accept the factors pointed out by Claire19 in her post, above; I follow Charles Carter in the view that several concommitant factors are needed to trigger a significant event; and I also follow the ancient dictum that Mars MUST play a role in any serious or fatal accidents or serious deleterious sudden occurences, and Claire19's observations regarding Mars (and Mars ruler Aries) support that ancient dictum, in this case.

Last edited by dr. farr; 02-13-2012 at 09:07 AM.
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Unread 02-15-2012, 05:06 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: Whiteney Houston's Death

From a vedic point of view, her Bhrigu Bindu (a sensitive point determined from the midpoint of the natal Moon with the natal NN), which falls in Gemini @ 4 degrees, is being approached by the transiting SN ("ketu"), which has been transiting through (and therefore influencing) Gemini since last March; thus there is a transiting SN applying conjunction to the Bhrigu Bindu, occuring at the time of death-those who follow this concept (inimical effects of transiting SN activating the Bhrigu Bindu), like me, would include this as a major pre-setting influence factor in this death (note that one of the malefic influences of the SN is sudden and dramatic changes having a major effect upon one's life)
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Unread 02-15-2012, 01:34 PM
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Re: Whiteney Houston's Death

That's interesting Dr Farr...

There are many interesting south node referals in her chart building up a pattern from the vedic wiewpoint in synch with secondary progressions and tertiary progressions.

She died in a Moon-South node period.
sec.prog. Moon conjunct south node
Prog true node square Moon exactly
There was a lunar eclipse before her death (in december)
right on her IC ! (end of life...classic).

Thus the nodes plays part in many ways.

Similar there is in tertiary progressions:
TP Node square TP mars and pluto


Your comments make this even stronger..
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Unread 02-15-2012, 08:28 PM
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Re: Whiteney Houston's Death

astrologers do both and i would suggest it is necessary to do both in life as well! one basis for research is an examination in part of events from the past in order to better understand how something would work into the future.. i think projections into the future require the grounding of the past.. it is like a tree that grows up out of the ground.. the further down the roots go, the higher up the tree can grow.. you can't have one end of this without the other as i see it..

why right now i am reading morins book 21 where he is discussing the ideas of ptolemy and carden and how he differs in his some of his own views on some what both ptolemy and carden discuss.. he looked into the past, studied it in fact! some considered him a very good astrologer too, lol.. reinhold ebertin makes mention of bonati.. perhaps both morin and ebertin would have been better off only looking into the future, but what would it be based on if they didn't also look into the past?

an interesting side note.. janus the mythological god connected to january was said to look back and also forward. this gives us a connection to the planet saturn that is capable of doing something very similar.. looking back at the past and learning from it so that we can also move forward with more wisdom and understanding into the future.. you might want to reconsider your philosophy here, lol.. cheers james
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Unread 02-15-2012, 09:40 PM
claudette claudette is offline
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Re: Whiteney Houston's Death

Looking to the past gives one a treasure trove of information; one of the most valuable experiences to be gained from Astrology, I would say. I'd agree with Sandstone-much can be learned. One can also follow the course of a planet; ie: what happened when it conjuncted, then sextiled, waxing squared, trined, etc one of your planets, or many of them. There are so many, many ways to learn from Astrology; hence it's timeless appeal.
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Unread 02-16-2012, 02:23 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: Whiteney Houston's Death

An additional insight here,continuing with considerations of the SN in the reference chart: by simple porgression (1 degree per year of life) we find that the progressed SN falls exactly upon her ascending degree (8 Pisces) in her 48th year of life (ie, her ascending degree is exacly 48 degrees from her natal SN) The SN progressed to her natal 12th house posited Saturn in her 30th year (which would have been considered a possible critical year for her), but of course, progressing to the exact degree of the ascendant, would have been (actually turned out to be) much more of a significant red flag as a very important critical year.
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Unread 02-16-2012, 04:44 AM
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Re: Whiteney Houston's Death

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandstone View Post
not sure what claire is referring to with mars square to venus.. maybe she meant to say something else... but if you want to bring neptune together with mars, go for the neptune/uranus midpoint.. mars is sitting right there..

what astro to explain her untimely death? she has had drug problems for years... where do you put that? i think looking at saturn is quite relevant.. it rules the 12th house and that is where it sits in her chart..

saturn in the 12th and mars in the 8th.. t saturn is at the midpoint by 45.. this is relevant to me.. the midheaven/descendant midpoint at 28 libra 24 - a degree off the transit of saturnas well.. solar arc pluto is presently at 28 libra 01, so same deal but with an outer..

sp ascendant squares onto saturn here as well..
Her very challenged Neptune in the 8th is responsible for her addiction as well as to being a religious nut. Her ramblings about seeing Jesus and her time was coming etc. Her frequent references to God and Jesus.

That she has a natal sextile with Mars and Venus may have contributed to her painless passing over even with the TMars Venus conjunction in the 7th. I feel that she was maybe in touch with Bobby Brown and they may have been having a reconciliation of sorts. I think they loved each other but their problems were insurmountable.

The mars midpoint to Neptune and Uranus in her chart I am not sure points to her demise. As there is no natal connection with these planets I am not sure it is even valid. HOwever my mind remains open.
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Last edited by Claire19; 02-19-2012 at 04:35 AM.
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Unread 02-16-2012, 04:46 AM
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Re: Whiteney Houston's Death

Quote:
Originally Posted by claudette View Post
Looking to the past gives one a treasure trove of information; one of the most valuable experiences to be gained from Astrology, I would say. I'd agree with Sandstone-much can be learned. One can also follow the course of a planet; ie: what happened when it conjuncted, then sextiled, waxing squared, trined, etc one of your planets, or many of them. There are so many, many ways to learn from Astrology; hence it's timeless appeal.
Totally agree.
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Unread 02-16-2012, 05:00 AM
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Re: Whiteney Houston's Death

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Originally Posted by claudette View Post
A tragedy, however she died. What a voice! And a challenging chart to begin with, I would say: retro sat in the 12th, 2 planet pairings in fire, Nep in Scorp in the 8th, and all that virgo-with Merc conj Pluto-in the 7th. Interesting, all four main astroids are in her 7th: Pallas, Juno in Virgo, Ceres and Vesta in libra. I know it's crazy, but I sometimes think of those 4 astroids as our sisters, trying to help us out.

In progressions, her P. NN was now square her natal Moon, her prog. Moon now conj. her n. SN, square n. Jup.

In her solar return, Sat was right on her ASC, in the 12th, and her p. Jup was on her SR DSC. Her p. SN 17 cancer was on her SR MC. SR Merc 29 Leo retro exactly oppos. SR Nep 29 Aquar. When Sat went retro, it sextiled and trined this aspect.

Very sad. I hope her daughter has strong, loving people beside her.
Nodes are not used in progression or transits only if they are being hit natally maybe. I dont see the aspects you mention as in any way indicative of her demise. Sorry.
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Unread 02-16-2012, 05:23 AM
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Re: Whiteney Houston's Death

claire quote "Transitting Mars in the 8th Scorpio was squaring her Natal Venus in Leo in the 6th. SHe was partying at the hotel and I think it contributed to her death, with alcohol or whatever other pills she was taking."

claire, t mars has not made it to scorpio this year yet, or last year for that matter... if we zip up to late august this year - yes, but we ain't there yet...
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Unread 02-16-2012, 05:44 AM
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Re: Whiteney Houston's Death

Just a note: Nodes are treated like planets in Vedic astrology; and also many Modernists accept nodal transits and progressions as valid and effective delineative indications; other schools of thought do not consider the nodes of much value and do not use them outside of natal delineation; so the matter depends upon which outlook one has regarding them....
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Unread 02-16-2012, 08:10 AM
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Re: Whiteney Houston's Death

I think C19 refers to the mars transit effecting the 8th H ie the house of scorpio.(not mars in scorpio) that is how I read it.

mars is in virgo rx currently but I would have read this as being in the 7h H in Whitney's chart? Neptune is in scorpio.

pluto/uranus/mercury conj in virgo - her close relationship with her voice - which she appear to have lost towards the end of her life. this must have caused her a lot of grief.

is mercury considered a malefic here too?(this is a traditionalist view I read somewhere think)
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Unread 02-16-2012, 06:41 PM
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Re: Whiteney Houston's Death

Thanks, Dr. Farr, for clarifying the usage of the nodes. I ALWAYS look to them, yet respect that many astrologers don't. I had the good fortune to study with Zip Dobyns over a period of years, and she said if you see a theme showing up several times, within signs, houses, pay attention. So, I included the nodes. They also show up in the chart for around the time of her death. I used 3:30pm as that's when her body was discovered. (Her mother said she talked to her at 3:15 and she seemed fine, but that sounds suspect to me.) Anyway, T. moon is 16 Lib, conj. T. IC, X oppos.n. Moon, sext n. sun, trine P. Saturn and square P. NN, SN .This also puts T. moon on her Solar Return Asc. SR MC is 17 cancer, IC 17 cap, so that also ties in P. nodes.

P. mars is 10 scorp in the 8th squar n.venus-perhaps this is what claire means by mars squar venus, as T. mars is in virgo, as has been pointed out. T. mars is also conj. her p. Merc., sesququad T. Jup. Also I just noticed her p. Asc is 25 Taurus-Algol.

I guess in general I think of a moment in time as being sort of a stage: it's interesting to see who shows up, by basis of aspect, and in what capacity they are involved, be it by transit, progressed or solar return, etc. If "someone" is on the stage, I am curious about their part there. Of course some have more important roles than others, that's where the fun-and the art and intuition?-come in.

Someone mentioned her Merc bracketed by Uranus and pluto and commented on her loss of her voice and pondered how that could have affected her. I'd venture it was very important, giving her expression to the conflicting energies of uran and pluto. I would add that I have experienced this on a personal level. I used to sing in performances often, music I had written and all other kinds of music, and had a strong, clear voice. It was when singing I felt closest to the Divine. Gradually, though my own carelessness and bad habits, I "lost" my voice and now couldn't sing my way of the proverbial paper bag. Of course I never had the fame that Whitney Houston did, but fame doesn't have to factor in, for I did experience the transporting into a glorious place , when singing, that perhaps she did. It is a huge loss for me, and a deep regret, losing that joy in my life. Perhaps it was even more traumatic for her, as her reputation and personna were deeply dependent on her voice, as well as her income.
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Unread 02-16-2012, 08:16 PM
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Re: Whiteney Houston's Death

lets see what claire says.. transiting mars is definitely not the same as secondary prog mars and maybe that is what claire was thinking of... that sec prog comes exact july 11th area 2013, which is kind of wide of the mark if one wants to use this for her death.. it would be way outside the window if an astrologer wanted to use it to make an actual prediction off of it..going that far out into the future, you can also put sa saturn opposite the radix mars position and squaring onto the part of fortune at 8 cancer 01 too.. it is the hyleg to the chart.. as for using south node directed by solar arc - it is at 5 virgo 59 for feb 11 2012..
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Unread 02-19-2012, 02:06 AM
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Re: Whiteney Houston's Death

The full moon was on the 7th and she died on the 11th. The full moon was at 18* in Leo conjuncting her natal Sun/Venus Conjunction and Venus is the natural ruler of her 8th house of death. So that may explain her death. The full moon conjuncted her life (Sun) directly and also the representative of her house of death (Venus).

If you look at her daughter's chart, Bobbi Kristina has her natal Chiron at 18* Leo. No doubt this girl is in serious pain from the loss of her mother and was in pain all throughout her mother's existence. These two had a very special and close bond. I wouldn't be surprised if Bobbi Kristina's Chiron was located in her fourth house, but I can't get a time or place of birth for her, so I had to do a general chart.
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Unread 02-19-2012, 02:19 AM
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Re: Whiteney Houston's Death

Bobbi Kristina Brown, daughter of Whitney Houston and Bobby brown was born 4 march 1993 11.38 am Livingston, NJ, USA.
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