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  #26  
Unread 08-08-2019, 07:58 PM
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Smile Re: Why do they say Aquarius/Uranus create astrology?

Muses inspire creativity. With a Pisces/Aquarius Natal-chart, I was able to intuitively connect the Muse of Astrology, URANia() to the rulership of Aquarius. Not really that amazing though--same root word as URANus(), meaning "of the Heavens". In addition, the discovery of the first Planet beyond the orbit of Saturn had an enormous impact on astrology itself. Goddess of the Heavens, Urania, was the Muse of both astrology and astronomy, at a time when astrology and astronomy were intertwined.


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Unread 08-09-2019, 03:30 AM
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Re: Why do they say Aquarius/Uranus create astrology?

Never known a thread about the creation of astrology could span a discussion about how Uranus fits in


This is just a question that has been in my mind for a while, seeing how some pop astrology websites keep claiming astrology as a "gift" from Uranus. Personally I like @Frisiangal's interpretation the most. @love-thinking's input is also pretty interesting too, especially with Chiron. Now I wonder if Aqua quality is better for astrology, and Pisces energy is better for other more intuitive work like Tarot.
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Unread 08-09-2019, 04:17 AM
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Re: look at the charts of astrologers, to Gemini

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
"Uranus" is an attempt at jury-rigging a Latin spelling. It's actually just a strange modern combination of Greek "Uranos" and Latin "Caelus", with the Latin ending tacked onto the Greek word.

Yes, having Urania() on your M.C. is an excellent matchup with your Sun in Aquarius.
May the Muse be with you!
Thanks, David. The original Greek comes out as Ouranos.
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  #29  
Unread 08-09-2019, 05:31 AM
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Smile Re: look at the charts of astrologers, to Gemini

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Never known a thread about the creation of astrology could span a discussion about how Uranus fits in


This is just a question that has been in my mind for a while, seeing how some pop astrology websites keep claiming astrology as a "gift" from Uranus. Personally I like @Frisiangal's interpretation the most. @love-thinking's input is also pretty interesting too, especially with Chiron. Now I wonder if Aqua quality is better for astrology, and Pisces energy is better for other more intuitive work like Tarot.
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Thanks, David. The original Greek comes out as Ouranos.
You're right, of course. But it's the "Uran" part that refers to the Heavens. This actually makes "Urania" closer to "Uranus" than Ouranos. AND, the Latin for Ouranos, since the idea was to keep all the Planetary names Roman, is "Caelus", which is quite different from "Uranus", whereas, the Latin for "Urania" is....wait for it.... "Urania"! The Romans kept the Greek names for all 9 Muses.
Urania's grandmother was named "Gaia" in Latin, changed from "Gaea" in Greek. Sun god Apollo kept his Greek name in the Latin, whereas the other Sun god, "Helios" in Greek, was changed to "Sol", in Latin. We use those 2 names for the "Heliocentric" model, and for the "Solar" system.
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Unread 08-09-2019, 05:47 AM
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Smile Re: Why do they say Aquarius/Uranus create astrology?

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Never known a thread about the creation of astrology could span a discussion about how Uranus fits in


This is just a question that has been in my mind for a while, seeing how some pop astrology websites keep claiming astrology as a "gift" from Uranus. Personally I like @Frisiangal's interpretation the most. @love-thinking's input is also pretty interesting too, especially with Chiron. Now I wonder if Aqua quality is better for astrology, and Pisces energy is better for other more intuitive work like Tarot.
The Muses were very real to the ancient Greeks. The question was, why Aquarius and its Domicle-ruler would be considered responsible for creating astrology. That's where Urania() comes in, and, as Goddess of the Heavens, is a perfect fit for the constellation Aquarius, which is about pouring out meteor showers.
I'm using the ancient name "Urania()" in place of "Uranus", which is a modern, made up name, never actually used in ancient times. And, as the Muse of astrology, Urania() inspired the creation of astrology.
If a pop astrology website claimed that Mercury is the ruler of Gemini, would that be a reason to doubt it?
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  #31  
Unread 08-09-2019, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
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The Muses were very real to the ancient Greeks. The question was, why Aquarius and its Domicle-ruler would be considered responsible for creating astrology. That's where Urania() comes in, and, as Goddess of the Heavens, is a perfect fit for the constellation Aquarius, which is about pouring out meteor showers.
I'm using the ancient name "Urania()" in place of "Uranus", which is a modern, made up name, never actually used in ancient times. And, as the Muse of astrology, Urania() inspired the creation of astrology.
If a pop astrology website claimed that Mercury is the ruler of Gemini, would that be a reason to doubt it?
Whaat. Aquarius is the water bearer no? Pouring water to the Fish, not that a fish needs actual water to drink.
What about Ganymede? Kidnapped by Jupiter ( in eagle form) to be a cupbearer to the gods.
I read recently that one of the Aquariids meteor showers is influenced by Jupiter.
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Unread 08-09-2019, 06:45 AM
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Smile Re: Why do they say Aquarius/Uranus create astrology?

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Whaat. Aquarius is the water bearer no? Pouring water to the Fish, not that a fish needs actual water to drink.
What about Ganymede? Kidnapped by Jupiter ( in eagle form) to be a cupbearer to the gods.
I read recently that one of the Aquariids meteor showers is influenced by Jupiter.
The constellation Aquarius links to the "Heavens" meaning of "uran" in ancient Greece because of the meteor showers. "Ouranos", "Urania" and (although I don't use the bogus word) "Uranus", are about "the Heavens". The SIGN is more apropos of pouring out water, which relates to the "Month of Rain" in the ancient Babylonian solar calendar. Aquarius as "Water bearer" is a Latin 12th century Christian mistranslation of the original, ancient Greek name for the Sign , "Hydrokhoos", which means "Water-pourer", rather than "Cupbearer", or "Waterbearer".
I don't consider the ancient Greek Ganymede role as gay lover or cupbearer as applicable to the constellation or the Sign , because Ganymede was no longer Zeus/Jupiter's lover or cupbearer on Olympus once Zeus/Jupiter placed him in the sky as the constellation at the request of Hera.

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Unread 08-09-2019, 06:57 AM
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Smile Re: Why do they say Aquarius/Uranus create astrology?

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Whaat. Aquarius is the water bearer no? Pouring water to the Fish, not that a fish needs actual water to drink.
What about Ganymede? Kidnapped by Jupiter ( in eagle form) to be a cupbearer to the gods.
I read recently that one of the Aquariids meteor showers is influenced by Jupiter.
In 12/12, Jupiter() is devoted to both Aquarius, and its Domicle-ruler Urania(). Jupiter is a "Benefactor" in Aquarius . (By pattern, not by mythology, although Urania was his daughter.)

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Unread 08-09-2019, 07:21 AM
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Smile Re: Why do they say Aquarius/Uranus create astrology?

In the Ryder/Waite tarot deck, the Major Arcana card "the Star", which correlates to the Sign shows a woman, rather than a man, pouring water. For me, it has an authentic feeling to it, even though the usual depiction shows a man. In the original, ancient Babylonian constellation, it's a fountain called the "Overflowing Basin", with no human figure.
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  #35  
Unread 08-09-2019, 08:58 AM
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Smile Re: Why do they say Aquarius/Uranus create astrology?

In 12/12, the Aquarian Domicile-ruler is feminine in nature, but Yang in effect. In contrast to masculine and Yin Neptune.
Her message: "Raise your consciousness! What are you waiting for?"

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Unread 08-09-2019, 06:27 PM
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Re: Why do they say Aquarius/Uranus create astrology?

Interesting thoughts. Let me hold them for a while.
You may like this story, which I've deleted.

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Unread 08-09-2019, 08:49 PM
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Re: look at the charts of astrologers, to Gemini

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You're right, of course. But it's the "Uran" part that refers to the Heavens. This actually makes "Urania" closer to "Uranus" than Ouranos. AND, the Latin for Ouranos, since the idea was to keep all the Planetary names Roman, is "Caelus", which is quite different from "Uranus", whereas, the Latin for "Urania" is....wait for it.... "Urania"! The Romans kept the Greek names for all 9 Muses.
Urania's grandmother was named "Gaia" in Latin, changed from "Gaea" in Greek. Sun god Apollo kept his Greek name in the Latin, whereas the other Sun god, "Helios" in Greek, was changed to "Sol", in Latin. We use those 2 names for the "Heliocentric" model, and for the "Solar" system.
David, I wouldn't make too much of this. "Jupiter" sounds nothing like Zeus. "Venus" sounds nothing like Aphrodite.

As a sign (30-degree sector of the sky) nobody thinks Aquarius invented astrology. That honor belonged to Mercury (Hermes,) and possibly to his Sumerian predecessor, the goddess Nisaba (or Nidaba.)
https://www.ancient.eu/Nisaba/

She was credited with inventing writing and counting, notably of grain stores and stars.
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  #38  
Unread 08-09-2019, 08:59 PM
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Re: look at the charts of astrologers, to Gemini

Aquarius, the "water bearer" was named because the sun is in Aquarius during the winter rainy season of the Mediterranean region and Near East, where astrology originated. Also, the Aquarid meteor shower, seemingly emanating from his urn.
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Unread 08-09-2019, 09:35 PM
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Smile Re: look at the charts of astrologers, to Gemini

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David, I wouldn't make too much of this. "Jupiter" sounds nothing like Zeus. "Venus" sounds nothing like Aphrodite.

As a sign (30-degree sector of the sky) nobody thinks Aquarius invented astrology. That honor belonged to Mercury (Hermes,) and possibly to his Sumerian predecessor, the goddess Nisaba (or Nidaba.)
https://www.ancient.eu/Nisaba/

She was credited with inventing writing and counting, notably of grain stores and stars.
Without being able to identify the Planet beyond what's now known as Saturn, as anything but a faint star, how COULD the ancients have connected Nisaba to the Planet now known as Urano (in Spanish).
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Unread 08-09-2019, 09:40 PM
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Smile Re: look at the charts of astrologers, to Gemini

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Aquarius, the "water bearer" was named because the sun is in Aquarius during the winter rainy season of the Mediterranean region and Near East, where astrology originated. Also, the Aquarid meteor shower, seemingly emanating from his urn.
"Aquarius" in very ancient Latin means "pertaining to water", not specifically to carrying water. That definition is 12th century Christian. The "Overflowing Basin" regarding the constellation is ancient Babylonian, and is obviously about the pouring out, not the carrying around.

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Unread 08-09-2019, 09:58 PM
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Smile Re: Why do they say Aquarius/Uranus create astrology?

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Aquarius, the "water bearer" was named because the sun is in Aquarius during the winter rainy season of the Mediterranean region and Near East, where astrology originated. Also, the Aquarid meteor shower, seemingly emanating from his urn.
Nisaba became Nabu. The Hellenistic astrologers associated Nabu with Apollo, patron of the 9 Muses, including Urania, Goddess of the Heavens and Muse of astrology. They also envisioned the constellation now known as Aquarius with water-flow, not water-carrying. The latter was a 12th century Christian interpretation.

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Unread 08-09-2019, 10:15 PM
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Smile Re: Why do they say Aquarius/Uranus create astrology?

With Moon and Venus conjunct in Aquarius, I notice I'm expert at landscape irrigation systems. I can also build waterfalls, and in one case, a bird bath fountain, which is timed to overflow and water plants as the water flows downhill.

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Unread 08-09-2019, 10:15 PM
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Re: Why do they say Aquarius/Uranus create astrology?

What is meant by emphasizing pouring over bearing?
Bearing children, for example, is both the carrying and the pouring.
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Unread 08-09-2019, 10:20 PM
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Re: Why do they say Aquarius/Uranus create astrology?

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With Moon and Venus conjunct in Aquarius, I notice I'm expert at landscape irrigation systems. I've also built waterfalls, and in one case, a bird bath fountain, which is timed to overflow and water plants as the water flows downhill.
That is super cool. I think Steiner was a Pisces?

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Unread 08-09-2019, 10:25 PM
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What is meant by emphasizing pouring over bearing?
Bearing children, for example, is both the carrying and the pouring.
Aquarius channels the flow. A river channels the flow of water from the mountains to the sea, which can also be described as "carrying water to the sea", which relates to Pisces through its Domicle-ruler Neptune.

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Unread 08-09-2019, 11:15 PM
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Smile Re: Why do they say Aquarius/Uranus create astrology?

The symbol can be interpreted as "channelling the flow". [IMO]
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Unread 08-09-2019, 11:34 PM
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Re: Why do they say Aquarius/Uranus create astrology?

This is in my unconquerable queue: https://steiner.presswarehouse.com/b...oductID=409823
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Unread 08-10-2019, 04:19 AM
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Re: Why do they say Aquarius/Uranus create astrology?

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Nisaba became Nabu. The Hellenistic astrologers associated Nabu with Apollo, patron of the 9 Muses, including Urania, Goddess of the Heavens and Muse of astrology. They also envisioned the constellation now known as Aquarius with water-flow, not water-carrying. The latter was a 12th century Christian interpretation.
David, I don't know what you're reading, but I highly recommend www.theoi.com on Greek mythology, a compenium of original sources; or an earlier book compendium, Robert Graves, The Greek Myths. On ancient goddesses who got "demoted," or whose functions were usurped by male gods, see Tikva Frymer-Kensky, In the Wake of Goddesses. On Babylonians, Gavin White, Babylonian Star Lore.

As you know, the gods' myths and functions could change substantially over time.

The Sumerian goddess Nisaba evolved (devolved??) into the wife of the Babylonian god Nabu, who basically took over her primary functions. He assimilated to the Greek god Hermes, and from Hermes to Mercury, not Apollo.

Apollo was not notably a planetary god until he took over from Helios and Phoebus.

Regardless of whether the constellation Aquarius "bears" or "pours," it had nothing to do with the founding of ancient astrology.
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Unread 08-10-2019, 04:29 AM
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Re: Why do they say Aquarius/Uranus create astrology?

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The symbol can be interpreted as "channelling the flow". [IMO]
This was the ancient Egyptian hieroglyph for water. It was not always standardized, sometimes having one, two, or three parallel wavy lines. Their hieroglyph for the sun was borrowed by astrologers; a circle with a central dot.

Please don't read more into this material than it warrants.
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Unread 08-10-2019, 05:21 AM
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David, I don't know what you're reading, but I highly recommend www.theoi.com on Greek mythology, a compenium of original sources; or an earlier book compendium, Robert Graves, The Greek Myths. On ancient goddesses who got "demoted," or whose functions were usurped by male gods, see Tikva Frymer-Kensky, In the Wake of Goddesses. On Babylonians, Gavin White, Babylonian Star Lore.

As you know, the gods' myths and functions could change substantially over time.

The Sumerian goddess Nisaba evolved (devolved??) into the wife of the Babylonian god Nabu, who basically took over her primary functions. He assimilated to the Greek god Hermes, and from Hermes to Mercury, not Apollo.

Apollo was not notably a planetary god until he took over from Helios and Phoebus.

Regardless of whether the constellation Aquarius "bears" or "pours," it had nothing to do with the founding of ancient astrology.
I got the Hellenistic Apollo connection to Nabu from Wikipedia, "Nabu". There's 2 footnotes citing sources.
Without knowing about the Uranian planet, Mercury was the next best until Urano (Spanish) was discovered. The Muse connection is obvious.
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