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  #26  
Unread 04-18-2019, 08:14 PM
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Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

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I agree that astrology isn't weather based. However, weather is astrologically based. Therefore, the astrology has to be able to explain both genethlialogy and meteorology.
Since this is so, and since the Sun dominates the place (Leo) following the summer solstice place (Cancer) for regions after 23N, it so happens that it to dominate the opposite place for regions after 23S, since it so happens that the Sun has great amount of heat at that time of the year for the Southern Hemisphere, with that particular declination. The places inbetween get an admixture of influences by declination, proportionally.


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  #27  
Unread 04-18-2019, 08:16 PM
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Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

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Geography explains weather, not astrology.
Well, I am sure that a main characteristic of all climate designations is latitude (geodetics/but used to be part of astrology), since you can't have a Mediterranean climate at the Poles you know. It is true that a main reason for diversity of climates for one latitude is sublunar phenomena like trade winds, oceans, land, height etc., but that doesn't mean that astronomy does not affect weather...

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  #28  
Unread 04-18-2019, 08:21 PM
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Well, I am sure that a main characteristic of all climate designations is latitude (geodetics/but used to be part of astrology), since you can't have a Mediterranean climate at the Poles you know.
Elevation also.
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  #29  
Unread 04-18-2019, 08:37 PM
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Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

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The Tropical zodiac begins based on a well-defined astronomical concept and calculation. The Sidereal zodiac begins with legend or guesswork or fairy correspondence.
If we are to be honest with ourselves, any zodiac is a fairy correspondence exactly at the Equator since there is no particular demarcator, neither latitude, nor daylight, nor temperature, nor rising times, nor anything else material. The fixed stars have greater influence than declination for that region.

Likewise, for the Southern Hemisphere, there is no good reason for not reversing rulership, since all rulership is based on latitude in the first place.
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  #30  
Unread 04-18-2019, 09:13 PM
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Smile Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

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Since this is so, and since the Sun dominates the place (Leo) following the summer solstice place (Cancer) for regions after 23N, it so happens that it to dominate the opposite place for regions after 23S, since it so happens that the it has great amount of heat at that time of the year for the Southern Hemisphere, with that particular declination. The places inbetween get an admixture of influences by declination, proportionally.
In 12/12, I'm using a Heliocentric cipher in place of climate to determine the Domicle-rulers of the 4 Cardinal-signs and Fixed-Fire. Before I knew about Ptolemy's explanation for rulerships, I correlated the ancient knowledge of the Heliocentric model (Aristarchus of Samos, around 250 B.C.E., and down through the Alexandrians) to the rulerships of indeterminate origins, prior to Ptolemy, with Heliocentrism. What "jumped out" immediately was, the Heliocentrically stationary (fixed in place, and fiery) Sun, ruling the Fixed-Fire sign.
The orbits of the Equinoctial rulers are equivalent and opposite relative to Earth's, as the "reference orbit" (adjacent+inside and outside), and the Solstial-rulers are nearest and farthest. I used the standard sequence of Modalities and Elements, beginning with the Sun ruling Fixed-Fire, to determine the Elemental assignments for the Cardinal-sign rulers. This worked out nicely, since that made Mars, with its reddish color, a Fire-sign ruler, and Venus with its brightness due to atmosphere, the Equinoctial Air-sign ruler.
The sequence of Modalities and Elements was more necessary for the Solsticial-sign rulers, for two reasons: Capricorn is directly linked to water, as the Goatfish; and, I read that Chronus/Saturn was a Sea-god prior to being replaced by Poseidon/Neptune; This made it impossible to distinguish Saturn's Elemental rulership from that of the Moon, which the Ancient Greeks knew ruled the tides. Also, "nearest" and "farthest" pertains to the Tropics, and which Tropic is nearest depends on in which Hemisphere one is situated, which is too relativistic. By beginning with the Sun ruling Leo as Fixed-Fire, the Cardinal-sign, Elemental rulerships were sorted out, with Cardinal-Earth Capricorn was assigned to Saturn by sequence.
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  #31  
Unread 04-18-2019, 09:17 PM
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Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

Everything revolves around the individual OM
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  #32  
Unread 04-18-2019, 09:17 PM
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If we are to be honest with ourselves, any zodiac is a fairy correspondence exactly at the Equator since there is no particular demarcator, neither latitude, nor daylight, nor temperature, nor rising times, nor anything else material. The fixed stars have greater influence than declination for that region.

Likewise, for the Southern Hemisphere, there is no good reason for not reversing rulership, since all rulership is based on latitude in the first place.
The Heliocentric cipher determines Solsticial and Equinoctial rulerships regardless of Hemisphere or Equator, when it's combined with the sequence of Modalities and Elements, beginning with the fiery, stationary Sun ruling the Fixed-Fire sign.

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  #33  
Unread 04-18-2019, 09:19 PM
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Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

Can you predict NBA finals with 12/12?

Would love to learn it if work well.
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  #34  
Unread 04-18-2019, 09:24 PM
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Can you predict NBA finals with 12/12?

Would love to learn it if work well.
Not sure how. Wouldn't that require a lot of research about the team's own horoscope? There's a sports thread on soccer that uses astrology. Have you looked at that?
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  #35  
Unread 04-18-2019, 09:45 PM
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Sun is not stationary
In the Heliocentric model, the Sun is stationary on the center-line of the Solar-system.
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  #36  
Unread 04-18-2019, 10:25 PM
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There are many Solar systems
Sun is not stationary and carries celestial bodies orbiting it along with it
The Sun is stationary within the context of the Solar-system of which the Earth is a member. The purpose of the cipher is to ascertain rulerships within the Earth-centered, zodiacal system. Also, "Solar" is from the Roman name of the Sun, "Sol". It's not about the distant stars.
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Unread 04-18-2019, 10:35 PM
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Smile Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

"Heliocentric" is from the Greek god personifying the Sun, Helios. Not about distant stars .
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  #38  
Unread 04-18-2019, 10:46 PM
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Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

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"Heliocentric" is from the Greek god personifying the Sun, Helios. Not about distant stars .
Ds,

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  #39  
Unread 04-18-2019, 10:46 PM
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The Earth's Age-indicator is included as the Domicle-ruler of the Earth-sign Taurus. The Ascendant is included, along with the other two points of the Horoscopic Triangle, as Domicle-rulers of Sagittarius. Jupiter is Regulating-ruler of Mutable-Fire.
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  #40  
Unread 04-19-2019, 12:19 AM
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geocentric and heliocentric, to All

All,

There is one system of astrology that uses the earth as a center and is called "geocentric". There is another system of astrology that uses the sun as a center and is called "heliocentric". Please stop arguing about the existence of both of these systems, as they both exist. If you want to comment on the use of either system, feel free to do so. Also, do NOT make comments that simply attack the astrological comments of others. And remember this is a MODERN ASTROLOGY forum, so topics like heliocentric astrology are on subject.

Back on topic,

Tim
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  #41  
Unread 04-19-2019, 06:01 AM
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Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

With all of this, I am enjoying the read gentlemen, but......I always go back to the numbers.....what system do the numbers of precession work with? If the numbers don't work, I would not believe......

With the equator, being the 0 degree.......and the shift of the ecliptic of 1 degree every 7200 years.......the poles will receive sunlight eventually.....the Piri Reis Maps are copies of a previous time when the poles were not ice caps......

How would you fit the numbers to any of the systems to arrive at a mathematical answer.......the numbers are key, to me......If they fit tropical, I would believe.....If the numbers fit geocentric I would believe.....but the numbers have a purpose.......or we would not have them
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  #42  
Unread 04-19-2019, 08:28 AM
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With all of this, I am enjoying the read gentlemen, but......I always go back to the numbers.....what system do the numbers of precession work with? If the numbers don't work, I would not believe......

With the equator, being the 0 degree.......and the shift of the ecliptic of 1 degree every 7200 years.......the poles will receive sunlight eventually.....the Piri Reis Maps are copies of a previous time when the poles were not ice caps......

How would you fit the numbers to any of the systems to arrive at a mathematical answer.......the numbers are key, to me......If they fit tropical, I would believe.....If the numbers fit geocentric I would believe.....but the numbers have a purpose.......or we would not have them
The Ecliptic is the plane of Earth's orbit around the Sun. From our perspective on Earth, it's a circle, delineated by the transiting Sun. Both tropicalists and sideralists choose to divide it into 12 equal, 30 degree intervals.
What shifts due to Earth's "wobble" as it rotates on its axis isn't the Ecliptic, it's two separate lines in the plane of the Ecliptic and through the Earth in the center of the circle of the mathematically divided zodiacs. These two lines can be used to determine the Astrological Ages, one line for sidereal, the other for tropical.
**********************************************
Sidereally, it's the Line of Intersection of the circle of Earth's orbital plane (which is used for the zodiac), and the circle of Earth's Equatorial plane. This is known as the Equinoctial Line, because the Earth's axis relative to the transiting Sun in the Earth-centered (Geocentric) system is at 90 degrees (perpendicular) at those two points on opposite sides of the circle, which is when the Sun's geocentric path crosses the Celestial Equator.
Earth's wobble causes "Precession of the Equinox", which means that the Equinoctial Line transits the 12 Sign-divisions of the sidereal zodiac. That's where the sidereal Ages come in.
Tropically, it's a different kind of line that can be used to determine the Ages in tropical coordinates, a terrestrial line that transits the zodiac due to Earth's wobble. The Equinoctial Line is already in use, positioning the tropical version of the 12 Sign-boundaries, so it has no movement relative to the tropical Signs. However, another terrestrial feature is the elliptical shape of Earth's orbit, with the "Line of Apsides" dividing it in half down the center.
One end of this center-line is where the Earth is closest to the Sun, Earth's "Perihelion", which has become known astrologically as the "Diamond-point". The other end is its aphelion, where the Earth is farthest from the Sun. This orbital center-line can be used to determine the tropical Ages as it transits the tropical zodiac.
*******************************************
So, in both cases, it's about Precession due to Earth's wobble that enables us to track and describe the Ages, utilizing these 2 different terrestrial lines--Precession of the Perihelion for the tropical Ages, and Precession of the Equinox for the sidereal Ages.

Last edited by david starling; 04-19-2019 at 08:47 AM.
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  #43  
Unread 04-19-2019, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Opal View Post
With all of this, I am enjoying the read gentlemen, but......I always go back to the numbers.....what system do the numbers of precession work with? If the numbers don't work, I would not believe......

With the equator, being the 0 degree.......and the shift of the ecliptic of 1 degree every 7200 years.......the poles will receive sunlight eventually.....the Piri Reis Maps are copies of a previous time when the poles were not ice caps......

How would you fit the numbers to any of the systems to arrive at a mathematical answer.......the numbers are key, to me......If they fit tropical, I would believe.....If the numbers fit geocentric I would believe.....but the numbers have a purpose.......or we would not have them
Opal, the Precession of the Equinox, which is what I believe you mean, occurs at the rate of about 1 degree every 72 years. (You wrote it as 7200 years.)
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Unread 04-19-2019, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Opal, the Precession of the Equinox, which is what I believe you mean, occurs at the rate of about 1 degree every 72 years. (You wrote it as 7200 years.)
I got my information from the siderealist astrologer Thomas H Burgoyne for one......7200 years for the click and the above written information........72 years is pretty quick......where do you get that information from?
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  #45  
Unread 04-19-2019, 07:19 PM
SunConjunctUranus SunConjunctUranus is offline
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Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

Robert Hand's dad was a heliocentrist, aswell as Hand before knowing that there's a potent astrological text from Mediterranean. For now, Hand seems to follow what Babylonian had invented, you might love to read 'em, ds. Just sayin.
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Unread 04-19-2019, 07:20 PM
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I got my information from the siderealist astrologer Thomas H Burgoyne for one......7200 years for the click and the above written information........72 years is pretty quick......where do you get that information from?
1 degree per about 72 years is standard information. For the Age of sidereal Pisces, which nearly all practitioners of sidereal astrology believe is still ongoing, it's actually 71.6 years, but there is a small amount of long-term variation. The rounded-up 72 years per degree gives a 2160 year (30 degrees X 72 years per degree) sidereal Age, meaning that one end of the Equinoctial Line, known as the Vernal Point (V.P.) moves Retrograde from one sidereal Sign-boundary to the next, in that length of time.
Perhaps Burgoyne had something else in mind, other than a sidereal Age of Pisces shifting to a sidereal Age of Aquarius, which is the conventional basis for discussions about the astrological Ages.
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Unread 04-19-2019, 07:32 PM
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Smile Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

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Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post
Robert Hand's dad was a heliocentrist, aswell as Hand before knowing that there's a potent astrological text from Mediterranean. For now, Hand seems to follow what Babylonian had invented, you might love to read 'em, ds. Just sayin.
First astrology book I read was Robert Hand's "Horoscope Symbols".
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  #48  
Unread 04-19-2019, 07:42 PM
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Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

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First astrology book I read was Robert Hand's "Horoscope Symbols".
Yea, it would probably came out in the 70s BEFORE the translations of "sacred text". He admitted to use precession corrected chart afterward.
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  #49  
Unread 04-19-2019, 08:16 PM
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In Horoscope Symbols, R. Hand speculated about an astrological indicator, a measured point of some kind, that would represent our own planet's astrological effect on a Chart. Only time I've seen that idea in print. That's when I realized something he didn't--that it was the Age Indicator, which moves due to Earth's wobble as it rotates.
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Unread 04-19-2019, 08:26 PM
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Re: The Possibility of Tropical Ages

Morin believe in astrological Ages?
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