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Modern Astrology For discussions on Modern Astrology only. (Note: Typically, modern astrology is defined as using techniques developed around the late 1800s by Theosophists. Specifically it relies on psychological, evolutionary, karmic, and non-western interpretation approaches and includes Neptune, Uranus and Pluto, and non-Ptolemaic aspects. The focus is more on psychological chart interpretation instead of prediction.)


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  #1  
Unread 11-26-2018, 02:40 AM
Uraninborgh Uraninborgh is offline
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Wink Is Pluto misunderstood?

I mean, come on. This tiny planet with a giant heart on its surface is the cutest thing in the galaxy. How can it possibly rule death?180907110422_1_540x360.jpg

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Unread 11-26-2018, 02:57 AM
VirgoSun1978 VirgoSun1978 is offline
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

Such is the nature of love...
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Unread 11-26-2018, 09:54 AM
Uraninborgh Uraninborgh is offline
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Such is the nature of love...
Is Pluto related to love?
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Unread 11-26-2018, 02:03 PM
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Witchyone Witchyone is offline
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

I agree that it's a cutey planet. It also makes neat noises.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5SaN-qLeeY

But it's associated with death, obsession, power, and such because of its namesake, the god of the Underworld, who out and out stole his "wife" against her will and forced her to spend half her life in Hell. Why is the planet (or dwarf planet) associated with that god? I have no idea.
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Unread 11-27-2018, 02:27 PM
Uraninborgh Uraninborgh is offline
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Originally Posted by Witchyone View Post
I agree that it's a cutey planet. It also makes neat noises.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5SaN-qLeeY

But it's associated with death, obsession, power, and such because of its namesake, the god of the Underworld, who out and out stole his "wife" against her will and forced her to spend half her life in Hell. Why is the planet (or dwarf planet) associated with that god? I have no idea.
I think Pluto is more like the Disney Pluto than the Greek mythology Pluto :V
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Unread 11-28-2018, 01:44 AM
Gemini888 Gemini888 is offline
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

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Originally Posted by Uraninborgh View Post
Is Pluto related to love?
In many ways. I classify signs according to phases of a human's life. A newborn is Aries; then it grows up, learn about the environment around it, and becomes Taurus. Then it goes to nursery school and kindergarten, learn to speak and think, and becomes Gemini. Then it goes to primary school, learn to have empathy for others, and becomes Cancer. Puberty comes and the child is now Leo, eager to show the world who's boss. Then it's time for college, and part-time job, the teenager is now Virgo, learning to think critically and how to be a functioning member of a work environment.


To understand Pluto/Scorpio, we have to understand what comes before it. Libra is when the person has graduated and earned enough right to start looking for a marriage partner. Libra finds a partner that looks perfect for them, they both envision a bright future of them being together forever and get ready for a marriage. However, they can only see the good in the surface of each other (Venus, anyone? Also Libra is an air sign, and air signs just float on the surface of things). Scorpio is when they finally get married and become too intimate. They start to see bad things from each other, and their ideal image shatters (a kind of death). They may become fed up with each other, and start cheating (another kind of death). But being too intimate, they have to find way to keep each other from running away, for various reasons (hence the possessive theme of Scorpio). Scorpio's love is no longer the romance-novel-like vision of love Libra has, it has evolved into a deeper, more unstable one. And this is the true challenge of love, to raise above all obstacles life throws to you in order to tear your love apart, so that you can achieve true soul connection and find love even in the face of shatter ideals. This is when one finally reaches Sagittarius, the sign that can find silver lighting in every dark cloud.


There is a good reason why 8H is the "real house of marriage". Marriage forces people to live together, and they can no longer choose to see the bright ideal side Libra wants to see. And to keep the bond strong despite all of that is what Pluto/Scorpio teaches us.
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Unread 11-28-2018, 02:07 AM
SCP11 SCP11 is offline
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

Then again, think of how deceptive it is, small and way back far away, hardly noticeable, but then taking ages to move through each sign... taking it allllll in, watching
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Unread 11-28-2018, 12:14 PM
Uraninborgh Uraninborgh is offline
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Originally Posted by Gemini888 View Post
In many ways. I classify signs according to phases of a human's life. A newborn is Aries; then it grows up, learn about the environment around it, and becomes Taurus. Then it goes to nursery school and kindergarten, learn to speak and think, and becomes Gemini. Then it goes to primary school, learn to have empathy for others, and becomes Cancer. Puberty comes and the child is now Leo, eager to show the world who's boss. Then it's time for college, and part-time job, the teenager is now Virgo, learning to think critically and how to be a functioning member of a work environment.


To understand Pluto/Scorpio, we have to understand what comes before it. Libra is when the person has graduated and earned enough right to start looking for a marriage partner. Libra finds a partner that looks perfect for them, they both envision a bright future of them being together forever and get ready for a marriage. However, they can only see the good in the surface of each other (Venus, anyone? Also Libra is an air sign, and air signs just float on the surface of things). Scorpio is when they finally get married and become too intimate. They start to see bad things from each other, and their ideal image shatters (a kind of death). They may become fed up with each other, and start cheating (another kind of death). But being too intimate, they have to find way to keep each other from running away, for various reasons (hence the possessive theme of Scorpio). Scorpio's love is no longer the romance-novel-like vision of love Libra has, it has evolved into a deeper, more unstable one. And this is the true challenge of love, to raise above all obstacles life throws to you in order to tear your love apart, so that you can achieve true soul connection and find love even in the face of shatter ideals. This is when one finally reaches Sagittarius, the sign that can find silver lighting in every dark cloud.


There is a good reason why 8H is the "real house of marriage". Marriage forces people to live together, and they can no longer choose to see the bright ideal side Libra wants to see. And to keep the bond strong despite all of that is what Pluto/Scorpio teaches us.
That's interesting. I always thought Pluto was more like a loner planet, representing put relationship with ourselves.
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Unread 02-08-2019, 01:17 AM
brion brion is offline
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

I have never seen Pluto as a "loner." I've seen it more as the previous poster delineating the phases of life. But when you're 70, you've seen a lot more than most people do, and I've had clients with Pluto transits (including me), where it ended up many times with literal death. When my father died, my mother was having a Pluto/Sun opposition, my sister was having Pluto conjunct Venus, my brother was having Pluto/Moon and I was having a Pluto/Saturn conjunction.

My father was having Pluto square moon.


To paraphrase Mad West "Cuteness had nothing to do with it."
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Unread 02-08-2019, 09:32 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

The meaning of Pluto is contained in its orbital and physical characteristics.

For example, Pluto's orbit is the most distant from Sun, nearest to dark unknown invisible space.

So Pluto represents "outsiders" of all stripes: outlaws, the homeless, the ultra-powerful few who control the world through invisible manipulations, true believers, the insane, fringe groups....

Pluto's orbital path is the most eccentric of all; the plane of Pluto's orbit is by far the most highly inclined to the ecliptic....these traits can be given significance in terms of Pluto's astrological "meaning" as can all of its other physical and orbital traits.

Jupiter is by far the biggest of planets. It signifies whales and elephants and all things "Big". Mars, when observed in the sky, has a red color. So Mars "rules" (signifies) all things red: blood, hot iron, anger (seeing red), the bullfighter's cape (which excites and angers the bull)....

Last edited by greybeard; 02-08-2019 at 09:50 AM.
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  #11  
Unread 02-21-2019, 07:13 AM
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ardentika ardentika is offline
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

Planets compel they don't impell. It's up to the individuals conscious growth as to how this sign or planet will play out.

Scorpio imo is one of the most sacred energies. I've seen people with Scorpio placements transmute energy like a pro. Cos they just can handle it.

I believe in collective consciousness and collective karma and the hard drive is full of some nasty stuff. Scorpio is the one who won't be afraid to tap in that darkness, experience the pain and be reborn like a beautiful Phoenix. Scorpio can turn darkness into light. If you want to get deep, get real deep with Scorpio.

I have NN and Venus in Scorpio both in 8th house and that position used to scare me so much cos its so intense. When I learned how to use it properly I loved it. It's all about healing and manifestation, transmutation . It can be a powerful sign when used properly.

Also I disagree that Libra rules marriage. Libra stands for when you meet the partner and all is pleasant and chit chat. Then its natural to move to Scorpio for the deep intimacy. Sex, talks, sharing issues and childhood trauma. Getting to REALPY know that partner. And then I'd say Sag rules marriage.

In ancient times people used to first marry (7th/Libra) and then have sex (8th/Scorpio) but times change and with them so does planets.
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  #12  
Unread 02-21-2019, 07:38 AM
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

I've mentioned many times on the forums my family is very Scorpionic. My sister has a super stellium, my other sister has it as her ascendant and a sun in the 8th, and both my parents have Scorpio moons with my mom also having a Scorpio Mars. I see it as more controlling and stubborn than anything. It's a fixed sign so that makes sense and I think those are brilliant qualities. The sister with the super stellium is actually very paranoid about the unknown and suspicious of the esoteric and not very sexual, but she's very love oriented. And not necessarily the romantic kind, but love as a much deeper, collective theory which I think fits with her stellium dripping into the 11th house
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Unread 02-21-2019, 01:22 PM
BaoSanniang BaoSanniang is offline
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

I am of the opinion that Pluto is a malefic planet, and that unless you are a Scorpio sun / strongly Scorpio it is best not to have Pluto involved with any of your natal planets or with the Ascendant. Pluto is a potentially destructive force like Mars, except that it touches on even deeper, darker, and more subtle themes in life than the combative energy of Mars. Pluto is also about secrets, about power struggles, manipulation, and spiritual death / regeneration. Not many people can harness Pluto energy, so I believe for the majority of people it's such a force to reckoned with to the point that again, unless you are Scorpio / have several Scorpio placements in your natal planets, it's best for Pluto to not get involved because I feel like only Scorpio and / or a strong Scorpio presence can stand a better chance at channeling and harnessing Pluto. I like to think of it this way. If Mars is an aggressive and bloodthirsty military commander who sends his army on punitive campaigns to conquer land, Pluto is a plotting and scheming strategist who conceals his motives well but is absolutely totalitarian and capable of doing just about anything to reach his goals, yet he's much more mysterious and concealed than his Caesar / Alexandrian counterpart. Mars conquers, but Pluto's also capable of playing the political game.

None of the most Plutonic people I've come across in my life so far have been Scorpios. I believe it's because Scorpios integrate this energy into their soul due to them being the sign that Pluto rules. In my opinion it's more of a problem when Pluto's involved with other signs, especially when it's involved with "sunnier" signs like the air and fire signs. I feel like if Pluto's involved with a natal planet in an air or fire sign, it causes complications regardless of whether it's a flowing or a challenging aspect because "yang" energy and extreme "yin" energy are fundamentally incompatible and extremely difficult to balance.

I'm a much happier person being someone with a chart that doesn't have the outer trio involved with any of my natal planets. My life and my inner world's much simpler and straightforward and I feel like I don't want / need that much. Sometimes I do imagine what my life would be like if it were darker and more complex, but then I have Jupiter in I so it's not like I even obsess / brood over things that much.

Pluto people / Plutonic people, unless they have strong Scorpio in their natal planets to manage it, are like a frightening enigma to me. It's like I can't really understand so much of what happens in the deep, dark, raging waters of their hearts and minds. And it's not like they'll always leave you alone. They feel this urge to destroy, to change, to impose a dark will on you. It's like their level of depth is on another wavelength, one I'd rather not tap into. I almost feel as if very Plutonic people can truly get along only with each other. I can totally see Plutonic people being wizards and sorcerers who practice the dark arts in a fantasy world. In our world they're the people who play mind games and engage in power struggles almost for the sake of defining themselves as someone important and noteworthy. They live on the razor's edge.

I'd totally put a Plutonic person, especially if he has Mars-Pluto, in the vanguard against an enemy force. These people may very well charge straight into the thrill of the fight and take heads. They'd be my shock troopers to inflict chaos in the enemy ranks. Of course we still have to look for other aspects to see if it softens the person, but..... I just feel that overall Pluto's such a powerfully destructive planet.

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  #14  
Unread 02-21-2019, 01:58 PM
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

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Originally Posted by BaoSanniang View Post
I am of the opinion that Pluto is a malefic planet, and that unless you are a Scorpio sun / strongly Scorpio it is best not to have Pluto involved with any of your natal planets or with the Ascendant. Pluto is a potentially destructive force like Mars, except that it touches on even deeper, darker, and more subtle themes in life than the combative energy of Mars. Pluto is also about secrets, about power struggles, manipulation, and spiritual death / regeneration. Not many people can harness Pluto energy, so I believe for the majority of people it's such a force to reckoned with to the point that again, unless you are Scorpio / have several Scorpio placements in your natal planets, it's best for Pluto to not get involved because I feel like only Scorpio and / or a strong Scorpio presence can stand a better chance at channeling and harnessing Pluto. I like to think of it this way. If Mars is an aggressive and bloodthirsty military commander who sends his army on punitive campaigns to conquer land, Pluto is a plotting and scheming strategist who conceals his motives well but is absolutely totalitarian and capable of doing just about anything to reach his goals, yet he's much more mysterious and concealed than his Caesar / Alexandrian counterpart. Mars conquers, but Pluto's also capable of playing the political game.

None of the most Plutonic people I've come across in my life so far have been Scorpios. I believe it's because Scorpios integrate this energy into their soul due to them being the sign that Pluto rules. In my opinion it's more of a problem when Pluto's involved with other signs, especially when it's involved with "sunnier" signs like the air and fire signs. I feel like if Pluto's involved with a natal planet in an air or fire sign, it causes complications regardless of whether it's a flowing or a challenging aspect because "yang" energy and extreme "yin" energy are fundamentally incompatible and extremely difficult to balance.

I'm a much happier person being someone with a chart that doesn't have the outer trio involved with any of my natal planets. My life and my inner world's much simpler and straightforward and I feel like I don't want / need that much. Sometimes I do imagine what my life would be like if it were darker and more complex, but then I have Jupiter in I so it's not like I even obsess / brood over things that much.

Pluto people / Plutonic people, unless they have strong Scorpio in their natal planets to manage it, are like a frightening enigma to me. It's like I can't really understand so much of what happens in the deep, dark, raging waters of their hearts and minds. And it's not like they'll always leave you alone. They feel this urge to destroy, to change, to impose a dark will on you. It's like their level of depth is on another wavelength, one I'd rather not tap into. I almost feel as if very Plutonic people can truly get along only with each other. I can totally see Plutonic people being wizards and sorcerers who practice the dark arts in a fantasy world. In our world they're the people who play mind games and engage in power struggles almost for the sake of defining themselves as someone important and noteworthy. They live on the razor's edge.

I'd totally put a Plutonic person, especially if he has Mars-Pluto, in the vanguard against an enemy force. These people may very well charge straight into the thrill of the fight and take heads. They'd be my shock troopers to inflict chaos in the enemy ranks. Of course we still have to look for other aspects to see if it softens the person, but..... I just feel that overall Pluto's such a powerfully destructive planet.
When you talk about Plutonic people, do you mean people who only have hard aspects? Pluto touches about everything in my chart but the only Scorpio placement I have is that generational Pluto Scorpio. Mine is also retrograde and at 22 degrees. I know retrograde energy can be more intense and it's about learning how to harness the energy in your own way

I also have a strong presence of Neptune and Uranus which do form hard aspects to my inner planets assuming by the 'outer trio' you meant Pluto, Uranus, and Neptune. All of them happen to be retrograde for me actually

My Pluto is in my 3rd house so I feel like it comes out more in the mental realm for me, but I am curious on your perspective

For me, it touches my sun, Mercury, Mars, Saturn, Neptune, Uranus by major aspects but the only hard one is a square to Saturn. Mars also rules by 8th house with Aries. Maybe my aspects are too milquetoast to qualify
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Unread 02-21-2019, 02:09 PM
BaoSanniang BaoSanniang is offline
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

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Originally Posted by Lykanized View Post
When you talk about Plutonic people, do you mean people who only have hard aspects? Pluto touches about everything in my chart but the only Scorpio placement I have is that generational Pluto Scorpio. Mine is also retrograde and at 22 degrees. I know retrograde energy can be more intense and it's about learning how to harness the energy in your own way

I also have a strong presence of Neptune and Uranus which do form hard aspects to my inner planets assuming by the 'outer trio' you meant Pluto, Uranus, and Neptune. All of them happen to be retrograde for me actually

My Pluto is in my 3rd house so I feel like it comes out more in the mental realm for me, but I am curious on your perspective

For me, it touches my sun, Mercury, Mars, Saturn, Neptune, Uranus by major aspects but the only hard one is a square to Saturn. Mars also rules by 8th house with Aries. Maybe my aspects are too milquetoast to qualify



I believe it's mostly with the hard aspects between Pluto and the personal planets where you see the more extreme negative manifestations of Pluto. With the flowing aspects I believe the Pluto energy is a bit more controlled and tamed, but even then I believe it's not necessarily easy for oneself and for others having to deal with this Pluto energy. It's possible that if you have Scorpio placements in you natal planets it's easier for you to become aware of this energy and a need to harness, whereas without the Scorpio in your natal planets it's more challenging. What are your other placements though? Like I said I believe if there are softer aspects involving Moon, Venus, and Jupiter in your chart they could dampen or counteract that Pluto energy to an extent.

As for Uranus and Neptune I think they're easier to deal with than Pluto. While Uranus can be very flighty and inconsistent while Neptune can be prone to idealizing and always searching for something, they're not dark in an of themselves unlike Pluto.

I still haven't quite understood the exact effects of retrograde planets, so I'm far from qualified to tell you what all of these planets in retrograde could possibly mean. In my own chart my Uranus, Neptune, Pluto and Jupiter are retrograde but the outer three don't make any contacts with my natal planets.

Unlike you I was born with Pluto in Sagittarius, at 0.42 degrees to be exact. Neither of us have Pluto at an angular house so I believe that could also be why it's easier for us. You have Pluto in III (are you really into stuff like mysticism, psychology, spirituality etc.?) and I have mine in XII. I occasionally fantasize myself becoming this tragic anti-hero, this overlord brought to the dark side due to a great personal loss, but that occasionally exists only within my fantasies lol. IRL I am more than happy just being someone normal.

My six-and-a-half year old cousin has Pluto in IV. I was a bit scared when I looked up her chart and saw it. She also has Uranus in VII. She's a Gemini sun with a Scorpio moon (Moon Trine Pluto), Virgo ascendant, Gemini Mercury and Venus, and Mars in Virgo (Mars Trine Pluto). While she definitely has that typical playful, outgoing Gemini, she's already showing controlling and manipulative tendencies even as a young child.

She's being raised by my abusive mom who has also kept lots of secrets from me. Her own mother's unable to take care of her due to being mentally handicapped. I wonder what the future has in store for her because she has Pluto in IV as well as a Hades moon and a Mars-Pluto aspect. My mom has Sun, Venus, and Mars aspecting Pluto and she has a Mars-Pluto opposition with Mars at 28.59 Pisces and Pluto at 27.15 Virgo. I wonder if this little girl could be the spiritual successor to all of the Plutonic themes that have shaped and characterized the lives of my mom's side of the "family" (gosh, I hate them). As far as I can see she's already becoming a spitting image of them.

If she grows up becoming like them they'd be proud of her.

Last edited by BaoSanniang; 02-21-2019 at 02:20 PM.
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Unread 02-21-2019, 02:25 PM
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

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Originally Posted by BaoSanniang View Post
I believe it's mostly with the hard aspects between Pluto and the personal planets where you see the more extreme negative manifestations of Pluto. With the flowing aspects I believe the Pluto energy is a bit more controlled and tamed, but even then I believe it's not necessarily easy for oneself and for others having to deal with this Pluto energy. It's possible that if you have Scorpio placements in you natal planets it's easier for you to become aware of this energy and a need to harness, whereas without the Scorpio in your natal planets it's more challenging. What are your other placements though? Like I said I believe if there are softer aspects involving Moon, Venus, and Jupiter in your chart they could dampen or counteract that Pluto energy to an extent.

As for Uranus and Neptune I think they're easier to deal with than Pluto. While Uranus can be very flighty and inconsistent while Neptune can be prone to idealizing and always searching for something, they're not dark in an of themselves unlike Pluto.

I still haven't quite understood the exact effects of retrograde planets, so I'm far from qualified to tell you what all of these planets in retrograde could possibly mean. In my own chart my Uranus, Neptune, Pluto and Jupiter are retrograde but the outer three don't make any contacts with my natal planets.

Unlike you I was born with Pluto in Sagittarius, at 0.42 degrees to be exact. Neither of us have Pluto at an angular house so I believe that could also be why it's easier for us. You have Pluto in III (are you really into stuff like mysticism, psychology, spirituality etc.?) and I have mine in XII. I occasionally fantasize myself becoming this tragic anti-hero, this overlord brought to the dark side due to a great personal loss, but that occasionally exists only within my fantasies lol. IRL I am more than happy just being someone normal.


My six-and-a-half year old cousin has Pluto in IV. I was a bit scared when I looked up her chart and saw it. She also has Uranus in VII. She's a Gemini sun with a Scorpio moon (Moon Trine Pluto), Virgo ascendant, Gemini Mercury and Venus, and Mars in Virgo (Mars Trine Pluto). While she definitely has that typical playful, outgoing Gemini, she's already showing controlling and manipulative tendencies even as a young child.

She's being raised by my abusive mom who has also kept lots of secrets from me. Her own mother's unable to take care of her due to being mentally handicapped. I wonder what the future has in store for her because she has Pluto in IV as well as a Hades moon and a Mars-Pluto aspect. My mom has Sun, Venus, and Mars aspecting Pluto and she has a Mars-Pluto opposition with Mars at 28.59 Pisces and Pluto at 27.15 Virgo. I wonder if this little girl could be the spiritual successor to all of the Plutonic themes that have shaped and characterized the lives of my mom's side of the "family" (gosh, I hate them). As far as I can see she's already becoming a spitting image of them.

If she grows up becoming like them they'd be proud of her.
Oh well, I suppose I'm not dark or interesting either
But yeah I'm very heavy into spirituality and mysticism, occult topics, magick, death, transformation, mental masochism, studying humans, anything mysterious really. Aliens, folklore, ancient cultures, blood, very attracted to darkness and destruction too so I wonder if that's why

If you mean aspects from Jupiter, Venus, or my moon to Pluto, all I have is a semisquare from Jupiter and a quintile from my moon. If you mean in general, my Jupiter just forms a trine to my Venus and MC. my moon has trines to Uranus and Neptune but has a load of hard aspects and my Venus, aside from the trine, forms hard aspects as well. My Venus and moon square actually

I've put some research into retrogrades since I have 5. What I've come to understand is that the energy may seem weaker earlier in life, but we have to learn how to use the energy in a more individualized way, they're more subjective and counter to convention. They end up being stronger in energy since we have to fight to figure out how to use their energy in our own way

Are those bad placements? Virgo ascendant, Virgo Mars, Gemini Venus, so I'm wondering
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Last edited by Lykanized; 02-21-2019 at 02:38 PM.
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Unread 02-21-2019, 02:48 PM
BaoSanniang BaoSanniang is offline
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

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Oh well, I suppose I'm not dark or interesting either
But yeah I'm very heavy into spirituality and mysticism, occult topics, magick, death, transformation, mental masochism, studying humans, anything mysterious really



If you mean aspects from Jupiter, Venus, or my moon to Pluto, all I have is a semisquare from Jupiter and a quintile from my moon. If you mean in general, my Jupiter just forms a trine to my Venus and MC. my moon has trines to Uranus and Neptune but has a load of hard aspects and my Venus, aside from the trine, forms hard aspects as well. My Venus and moon square actually


I've put some research into retrogrades since I have 5. What I've come to understand is that the energy may seem weaker earlier in life, but we have to learn how to use the energy in a more individualized way, they're more subjective and counter to convention. They end up being stronger in energy since we have to fight to figure out how to use their energy in our own way


Are those bad placements? Virgo ascendant, Virgo Mars, Gemini Venus, so I'm wondering

I am sort of into some dark stuff as well. Also quite into psychology and spirituality, supernatural stuff. The Pluto aspects to your planets would be considered minor aspects and I am only familiar with the Ptolemaic aspects (Trine, Sextile, Opposition, Square, Conjunction) and the Quincunx (150 degrees).

Moon-Uranus=Do you feel this deep longing for freedom?
Moon-Neptune=Do you have a strongly artistic, perhaps even spiritual / psychic side? Do you feel lots of dreaminess and compassion at a large scale?

I can see how Moon Square Venus would present difficulties, as they're the most feminine energies do you feel like you have difficulties relating to women and that you can have a hard time expressing your feminine side if you're a guy?


As for the Ascendant, no such thing as a good or bad Ascendant. They're all different from each other but since you're a Virgo ascendant the placement of your Mercury by house and by sign, and the aspects it forms with other planets, will modify your Virgo rising.

I am Sagittarius rising and my Jupiter is on the Ascendant, so I definitely present a pretty jovial, free-spirited, almost happy-go-lucky face to the world. However, my Jupiter squaring my Saturn and my Jupiter being in Capricorn means that I can also come across as quite shy and reserved, even serious when with certain people / in certain places.

Moon in Virgo I'd say isn't that bad of a placement for the moon but it's not the most ideal. While Virgo can be very sensitive to detail, it can get a bit too analytical while the moon's all about emotions. I wouldn't say a Virgo moon is as cold and ambitious as a Capricorn moon, aspects aside. The moon in Capricorn is in detriment (Moon is domicile in Cancer, detriment in Capricorn, exalted in Taurus and falls in Scorpio), which means its qualities run contrary to the moon when it's "at home."

Venus in Gemini (what's your sun sign? It could be from Aries to Leo) is not a bad placement, it can get quite flirty and I was definitely like that as a teenager plus the fact that I have a Cancer sun meant I often had a hard time deciding between chasing after a feeling vs. actually wanting to be with that person. I do have Venus Sextile Saturn though, my Descendant's also Gemini but I have my 7th house ruler (Mercury) in Cancer and aspecting Saturn, so not all of the descriptions of Venus / 7th house in Gemini fit me.

Mars in Virgo isn't a very physical sign. I don't know if it's a "bad" placement, but Mars in Virgo tends to express Martian energy through mental, very detail-oriented ways rather than if Mars was placed in a more physical / sensual sign.
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Unread 02-21-2019, 02:54 PM
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

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Originally Posted by BaoSanniang View Post
I believe it's mostly with the hard aspects between Pluto and the personal planets where you see the more extreme negative manifestations of Pluto. With the flowing aspects I believe the Pluto energy is a bit more controlled and tamed, but even then I believe it's not necessarily easy for oneself and for others having to deal with this Pluto energy. It's possible that if you have Scorpio placements in you natal planets it's easier for you to become aware of this energy and a need to harness, whereas without the Scorpio in your natal planets it's more challenging. What are your other placements though? Like I said I believe if there are softer aspects involving Moon, Venus, and Jupiter in your chart they could dampen or counteract that Pluto energy to an extent.

As for Uranus and Neptune I think they're easier to deal with than Pluto. While Uranus can be very flighty and inconsistent while Neptune can be prone to idealizing and always searching for something, they're not dark in an of themselves unlike Pluto.

I still haven't quite understood the exact effects of retrograde planets, so I'm far from qualified to tell you what all of these planets in retrograde could possibly mean. In my own chart my Uranus, Neptune, Pluto and Jupiter are retrograde but the outer three don't make any contacts with my natal planets.

Unlike you I was born with Pluto in Sagittarius, at 0.42 degrees to be exact. Neither of us have Pluto at an angular house so I believe that could also be why it's easier for us. You have Pluto in III (are you really into stuff like mysticism, psychology, spirituality etc.?) and I have mine in XII. I occasionally fantasize myself becoming this tragic anti-hero, this overlord brought to the dark side due to a great personal loss, but that occasionally exists only within my fantasies lol. IRL I am more than happy just being someone normal.

My six-and-a-half year old cousin has Pluto in IV. I was a bit scared when I looked up her chart and saw it. She also has Uranus in VII. She's a Gemini sun with a Scorpio moon (Moon Trine Pluto), Virgo ascendant, Gemini Mercury and Venus, and Mars in Virgo (Mars Trine Pluto). While she definitely has that typical playful, outgoing Gemini, she's already showing controlling and manipulative tendencies even as a young child.

She's being raised by my abusive mom who has also kept lots of secrets from me. Her own mother's unable to take care of her due to being mentally handicapped. I wonder what the future has in store for her because she has Pluto in IV as well as a Hades moon and a Mars-Pluto aspect. My mom has Sun, Venus, and Mars aspecting Pluto and she has a Mars-Pluto opposition with Mars at 28.59 Pisces and Pluto at 27.15 Virgo. I wonder if this little girl could be the spiritual successor to all of the Plutonic themes that have shaped and characterized the lives of my mom's side of the "family" (gosh, I hate them). As far as I can see she's already becoming a spitting image of them.

If she grows up becoming like them they'd be proud of her.

I have the type of chart you're describing, I think (Gem sun, no Scorpio placements other than Dsc., Pluto making aspects to moon, Mars, and others, and it's in the 5th house.) What is wrong with us in your view?

LOL
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Unread 02-21-2019, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaoSanniang View Post
I am sort of into some dark stuff as well. Also quite into psychology and spirituality, supernatural stuff. The Pluto aspects to your planets would be considered minor aspects and I am only familiar with the Ptolemaic aspects (Trine, Sextile, Opposition, Square, Conjunction) and the Quincunx (150 degrees).

Moon-Uranus=Do you feel this deep longing for freedom?
Moon-Neptune=Do you have a strongly artistic, perhaps even spiritual / psychic side? Do you feel lots of dreaminess and compassion at a large scale?

I can see how Moon Square Venus would present difficulties, as they're the most feminine energies do you feel like you have difficulties relating to women and that you can have a hard time expressing your feminine side if you're a guy?


As for the Ascendant, no such thing as a good or bad Ascendant. They're all different from each other but since you're a Virgo ascendant the placement of your Mercury by house and by sign, and the aspects it forms with other planets, will modify your Virgo rising.

I am Sagittarius rising and my Jupiter is on the Ascendant, so I definitely present a pretty jovial, free-spirited, almost happy-go-lucky face to the world. However, my Jupiter squaring my Saturn and my Jupiter being in Capricorn means that I can also come across as quite shy and reserved, even serious when with certain people / in certain places.

Moon in Virgo I'd say isn't that bad of a placement for the moon but it's not the most ideal. While Virgo can be very sensitive to detail, it can get a bit too analytical while the moon's all about emotions. I wouldn't say a Virgo moon is as cold and ambitious as a Capricorn moon, aspects aside. The moon in Capricorn is in detriment (Moon is domicile in Cancer, detriment in Capricorn, exalted in Taurus and falls in Scorpio), which means its qualities run contrary to the moon when it's "at home."

Venus in Gemini (what's your sun sign? It could be from Aries to Leo) is not a bad placement, it can get quite flirty and I was definitely like that as a teenager plus the fact that I have a Cancer sun meant I often had a hard time deciding between chasing after a feeling vs. actually wanting to be with that person. I do have Venus Sextile Saturn though, my Descendant's also Gemini but I have my 7th house ruler (Mercury) in Cancer and aspecting Saturn, so not all of the descriptions of Venus / 7th house in Gemini fit me.

Mars in Virgo isn't a very physical sign. I don't know if it's a "bad" placement, but Mars in Virgo tends to express Martian energy through mental, very detail-oriented ways rather than if Mars was placed in a more physical / sensual sign.
I'm actually very sensual and sexual

Also my Pluto aspects aren't minor ones

I actually think Virgo's very misunderstood. Everyone with Virgo placements I've talked with have said the same about their sensuality and sexuality

Last edited by Lykanized; 02-21-2019 at 03:23 PM.
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Unread 02-21-2019, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
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I have the type of chart you're describing, I think (Gem sun, no Scorpio placements other than Dsc., Pluto making aspects to moon, Mars, and others, and it's in the 5th house.) What is wrong with us in your view?

LOL
He's talking hard aspects only. Those of us without em aren't interesting enough or Plutonic
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Unread 02-21-2019, 04:03 PM
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

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He's talking hard aspects only. Those of us without em aren't interesting enough or Plutonic
I have two squares and an inconjunct, all to personal planets. My Mars aspect is only a sextile, though. Send me to WAR!
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Unread 02-21-2019, 05:13 PM
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

You must think I'm the devil's child then, Mr. Bao.
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Unread 02-21-2019, 09:51 PM
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I have two squares and an inconjunct, all to personal planets. My Mars aspect is only a sextile, though. Send me to WAR!
yeah I have that sextile too. Probably not too significant tho. I think Pluto's a significant planet for me because of how many planets it touches alone
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Unread 02-21-2019, 09:51 PM
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You must think I'm the devil's child then, Mr. Bao.
Curiously you don't come off too Plutonian. Maybe it's the Sagittarius leading it
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Unread 02-21-2019, 11:31 PM
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

I got a lot of it + an Aquarius Moon. But I fit the criteria of pluto aspects in "sunny" signs so I'm supposed to be Mr. spoopy diabolical man, according to Bao.
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