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Modern Astrology For discussions on Modern Astrology only. (Note: Typically, modern astrology is defined as using techniques developed around the late 1800s by Theosophists. Specifically it relies on psychological, evolutionary, karmic, and non-western interpretation approaches and includes Neptune, Uranus and Pluto, and non-Ptolemaic aspects. The focus is more on psychological chart interpretation instead of prediction.)


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  #76  
Unread 02-26-2019, 11:57 AM
BaoSanniang BaoSanniang is offline
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

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I've known quite a few people who were verbally abused as children, and most of them thought it was normal too. That's part of what is so damaging about it. It doesn't just hurt your sense of self; it warps your reality. No parent is perfect, and most parents lose their temper and say something harsh once in a while, but I can assure you that healthy parents don't say those things you listed. There's a chance this didn't start recently and that your family has been passing these behaviors down for many generations.

If you're confident about her birth time, I think the Leo moon in the 12th is interesting. That moon doesn't like to hide, but it's in the house of hidden things. I also think blacklioness is right about her Venus.
I don't know when these patterns began, but what I can say is the relationship between my mom, my uncle (her younger brother), and their mom is a very difficult and tense relationship where...... each of them is playing their own game. It's no secret my mom and my uncle don't get along and it's mostly over money / inheritance issues from what I know but there could be many other issues I'm not aware of. The relationship between that old woman and her two children is devoid of any real or natural love and warmth, it's basically endless superficial pleasing and appeasing and power struggles with open conflict once in a while, but from what I can see there will be more open conflict in the future as their mom gets older. I am hesitant to call her a grandmother because the way she's treated me and the horrible human being she is means that she doesn't deserve the title.

You know there's something inherently wrong with them when just everyone on the maternal side of my family has been divorced at least once. There are so many secrets, so much ******** that goes on behind covers but to the outside world they try to act like they're angels, I mean sometimes you do get glimpses of just how awful they are but usually you don't see it until you've spent enough time around them.

I mean my mom's side of the family is one big wreck that doesn't deserve to be called a family, it's too dark and complex and dysfunctional and I've yet to uncover many of its secrets, and the older I get the more I've gotten to a point where I believe perhaps it's for me to not know certain things. Either way it doesn't affect me or influence who I am, because I am nothing like them.

I don't know about my mom's upbringing, to be honest, but I can very reasonably assume that she was exposed to much of what has been done to me, in some ways probably worse because I believe she was possibly taught to be cruel, scheming, and ruthless in a much more harsh and direct manner.

As @BlackLioness87 puts it, they demonstrate many Plutonian traits at the lowest octave, and their lives and the situations they either get themselves into, or they happen to come across usually have very Plutonian themes. It's all about power, lies, manipulation, sometimes even their very lives have been at stake. All in all it's a world I cannot understand nor do I want to understand it, but what little of their world I've been exposed to, the parts that that they've carried with them in their psyches, have hurt me deeply and profoundly.

I'm more sensitive than usual to dysfunctional dynamics in families and in relationships, sometimes I can imagine things to be more negative than they actually are because I can pick up what I see is the slightest hint. In the past, and even now, sometimes I find myself asking other people how they get along with their families, and how their parents and family members get along with each other because perhaps deep down I am searching for a sense of normality.

You can imagine how difficult it is for a Cancer sun individual to have gone through **** like this. I mean it's not easy for anyone, but for a sensitive sign like Cancer at times I really felt like it was the end of the world.

I actually thank the fact I was born with an Aquarius moon rather than a more mushy and sensitive moon sign, say if I had a Pisces, Cancer, or Taurus moon I might not be able to cope as well.

I cannot see why my mom would have her Leo moon in 1H. If she had her Leo moon in the 1H she'd be much more aware of the traits of her Leo moon and other people would basically see the expression of her Leo moon on her face, but that's not the case. I feel that her Leo moon is concealed quite well because to people who don't know her well she comes off as quite charming and easygoing due to her Sun-Venus conjunction in Aquarius. I also don't see her moon being in House XI, she's more hidden and complex than that.

I also find her Venus interesting because it's square both Jupiter and Saturn, and from what I've seen regarding the men in her life she likes to be treated like a princess and indulged upon, she likes romance and when men give her gifts. She's even attracted a few men after her money and some of them were a bit odd, to say the least. However, due to her Venus Sq. Saturn deep down she always seems to have this fear of falling in love and really giving herself to anyone. Then her Venus forms aspects with Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto, further complicating her womanhood and relationships. Again, much of it I don't even know because she's never told me nor do I think she wants to tell me.


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  #77  
Unread 02-26-2019, 02:31 PM
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

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I don't know when these patterns began, but what I can say is the relationship between my mom, my uncle (her younger brother), and their mom is a very difficult and tense relationship where...... each of them is playing their own game. It's no secret my mom and my uncle don't get along and it's mostly over money / inheritance issues from what I know but there could be many other issues I'm not aware of. The relationship between that old woman and her two children is devoid of any real or natural love and warmth, it's basically endless superficial pleasing and appeasing and power struggles with open conflict once in a while, but from what I can see there will be more open conflict in the future as their mom gets older. I am hesitant to call her a grandmother because the way she's treated me and the horrible human being she is means that she doesn't deserve the title.

You know there's something inherently wrong with them when just everyone on the maternal side of my family has been divorced at least once. There are so many secrets, so much ******** that goes on behind covers but to the outside world they try to act like they're angels, I mean sometimes you do get glimpses of just how awful they are but usually you don't see it until you've spent enough time around them.

I mean my mom's side of the family is one big wreck that doesn't deserve to be called a family, it's too dark and complex and dysfunctional and I've yet to uncover many of its secrets, and the older I get the more I've gotten to a point where I believe perhaps it's for me to not know certain things. Either way it doesn't affect me or influence who I am, because I am nothing like them.

I don't know about my mom's upbringing, to be honest, but I can very reasonably assume that she was exposed to much of what has been done to me, in some ways probably worse because I believe she was possibly taught to be cruel, scheming, and ruthless in a much more harsh and direct manner.

As @BlackLioness87 puts it, they demonstrate many Plutonian traits at the lowest octave, and their lives and the situations they either get themselves into, or they happen to come across usually have very Plutonian themes. It's all about power, lies, manipulation, sometimes even their very lives have been at stake. All in all it's a world I cannot understand nor do I want to understand it, but what little of their world I've been exposed to, the parts that that they've carried with them in their psyches, have hurt me deeply and profoundly.

I'm more sensitive than usual to dysfunctional dynamics in families and in relationships, sometimes I can imagine things to be more negative than they actually are because I can pick up what I see is the slightest hint. In the past, and even now, sometimes I find myself asking other people how they get along with their families, and how their parents and family members get along with each other because perhaps deep down I am searching for a sense of normality.

You can imagine how difficult it is for a Cancer sun individual to have gone through **** like this. I mean it's not easy for anyone, but for a sensitive sign like Cancer at times I really felt like it was the end of the world.

I actually thank the fact I was born with an Aquarius moon rather than a more mushy and sensitive moon sign, say if I had a Pisces, Cancer, or Taurus moon I might not be able to cope as well.

I cannot see why my mom would have her Leo moon in 1H. If she had her Leo moon in the 1H she'd be much more aware of the traits of her Leo moon and other people would basically see the expression of her Leo moon on her face, but that's not the case. I feel that her Leo moon is concealed quite well because to people who don't know her well she comes off as quite charming and easygoing due to her Sun-Venus conjunction in Aquarius. I also don't see her moon being in House XI, she's more hidden and complex than that.

I also find her Venus interesting because it's square both Jupiter and Saturn, and from what I've seen regarding the men in her life she likes to be treated like a princess and indulged upon, she likes romance and when men give her gifts. She's even attracted a few men after her money and some of them were a bit odd, to say the least. However, due to her Venus Sq. Saturn deep down she always seems to have this fear of falling in love and really giving herself to anyone. Then her Venus forms aspects with Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto, further complicating her womanhood and relationships. Again, much of it I don't even know because she's never told me nor do I think she wants to tell me.
You know, most abusive people _do_ love; it's just a twisted kind of love that often hurts the very people they want to care for. Keeping you in the dark about some of the things in your family's past might be a tool your mom uses to control you, but it might be her way of protecting you or herself. It might be both. I would expect having a 12th house moon would make it difficult to outwardly share her inner feelings, if she's even able to access them. She might have closed herself off from all that years ago.
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Unread 02-27-2019, 03:07 AM
BaoSanniang BaoSanniang is offline
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

Farewell, Flower from Hades. For you were given such a great power that you could not control, nor did you choose to leave the dark and step into the light. The anguish, pain, and destruction you've brought to me and my loved ones, we did not deserve. Maybe the world above was never meant for someone as deep, as piercing, as sophisticated as you. Now, you shall return to the world where you belong, may flames engulf you and may your ashes be blown away by the wind, and with them, all of the tormenting memories of those you've hurt and wronged, for it is because of you that they've been forced to seek the path of growth and rebirth, to bathe in healing waters. Now, it's time to turn the page and begin a new chapter. May the beast, the charlatan in you be chained to the deepest pit in hell for all eternity, never to see another sunrise on this merely mortal earth, because the marriage of my light with your darkness will only continue hurt us both. This is my eulogy to the bond we've shared, and it's too late to turn back. Begone, you witch! If you love me, if there is any love left in you, you will leave! I wish your soul a safe journey back.

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  #79  
Unread 02-27-2019, 07:53 AM
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BlackLioness87 BlackLioness87 is offline
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

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Farewell, Flower from Hades. For you were given such a great power that you could not control, nor did you choose to leave the dark and step into the light. The anguish, pain, and destruction you've brought to me and my loved ones, we did not deserve. Maybe the world above was never meant for someone as deep, as piercing, as sophisticated as you. Now, you shall return to the world where you belong, may flames engulf you and may your ashes be blown away by the wind, and with them, all of the tormenting memories of those you've hurt and wronged, for it is because of you that they've been forced to seek the path of growth and rebirth, to bathe in healing waters. Now, it's time to turn the page and begin a new chapter. May the beast, the charlatan in you be chained to the deepest pit in hell for all eternity, never to see another sunrise on this merely mortal earth, because the marriage of my light with your darkness will only continue hurt us both. This is my eulogy to the bond we've shared, and it's too late to turn back. Begone, you witch! If you love me, if there is any love left in you, you will leave! I wish your soul a safe journey back.
Don't feel sorry Andrew, if you feel it's time to move on, do it and don't feel anger, pain or remorse. My "Hades Moon" mother is not as "wicked" as your mother but I cut ties with her from time to time. Her Gemini Venus squares my NN in Aries and her Pluto quincunxes my NN .

Some mother-child relationships are very karmic in the sense that one of them has to give an extremely important lesson to the other. Well, actually it seems that in most of the cases both people have something important to learn from each other. In our cases, our mothers need to be aware of how hurtful they are to us, to themselves and to others they don't care about.

Our "plutonic" mothers were abused or witnessed abuse, but they decided to build a false self to hide their anger and pain, instead of accepting their wounding and evolving beyond them (My double Leo mother has her Sun in 12H, and she has some repressed childhood memories). Anyways, they can't hide their true selves/feelings from close people. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your perspective), you are aware or conscious enough to notice your mother's attitude and views are toxic and unhealthy and you have the courage to complain and tell her which are her flaws, you are also bold enough to escape from her influence.

I think we are fortunate, because the ones who submit to this unevolved "Plutonian" people are the ones who will suffer the most in the long run. We, the ones who don't submit are sometimes heavily psychologically or physically beaten (we are the scapegoats), but in the end we learn to detach ourselves from the pain. If one chose such a "complicated" experience, could be in order to learn to be strong, assertive and resilient (the final goal); if you have a sensitive nature you need those traits to face the grim reality, sometimes I believe there's a really hard event awaiting for me in the near future and I'm enough prepared to endure it without losing my mind (Thanks to mom's boot camp)... well, I'm simply speculating.

If you don't learn to detach from anger you'll become a predator, if you don't detach from pain there's the chance to become a victim of another "egotistical" person (you may also engage dangerous activities to evade reality). If you're detached you have more chances to quit from a toxic relationship and heal very quickly; [most of the time] you won't damage your body and mind with self destructive behavior. In my case I have Pluto square sun and Venus and I attract many "troubled" people (my parents, my former parents in law and the father of my children have Mars-Pluto conjunction or hard aspects). I don't know when it will stop (I also attract a few people with afflicted Moons), but I believe my narcissistic, oppressive and demanding mother along with the other people with Pluto-Mars hard aspects have gave me very valuable training. Now I believe I can overcome any difficulty that comes along my path.

Last edited by BlackLioness87; 02-27-2019 at 08:02 AM.
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Unread 02-27-2019, 05:17 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Don't feel sorry Andrew, if you feel it's time to move on, do it and don't feel anger, pain or remorse. My "Hades Moon" mother is not as "wicked" as your mother but I cut ties with her from time to time. Her Gemini Venus squares my NN in Aries and her Pluto quincunxes my NN .

Some mother-child relationships are very karmic in the sense that one of them has to give an extremely important lesson to the other. Well, actually it seems that in most of the cases both people have something important to learn from each other. In our cases, our mothers need to be aware of how hurtful they are to us, to themselves and to others they don't care about.

Our "plutonic" mothers were abused or witnessed abuse, but they decided to build a false self to hide their anger and pain, instead of accepting their wounding and evolving beyond them (My double Leo mother has her Sun in 12H, and she has some repressed childhood memories). Anyways, they can't hide their true selves/feelings from close people. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your perspective), you are aware or conscious enough to notice your mother's attitude and views are toxic and unhealthy and you have the courage to complain and tell her which are her flaws, you are also bold enough to escape from her influence.

I think we are fortunate, because the ones who submit to this unevolved "Plutonian" people are the ones who will suffer the most in the long run. We, the ones who don't submit are sometimes heavily psychologically or physically beaten (we are the scapegoats), but in the end we learn to detach ourselves from the pain. If one chose such a "complicated" experience, could be in order to learn to be strong, assertive and resilient (the final goal); if you have a sensitive nature you need those traits to face the grim reality, sometimes I believe there's a really hard event awaiting for me in the near future and I'm enough prepared to endure it without losing my mind (Thanks to mom's boot camp)... well, I'm simply speculating.

If you don't learn to detach from anger you'll become a predator, if you don't detach from pain there's the chance to become a victim of another "egotistical" person (you may also engage dangerous activities to evade reality). If you're detached you have more chances to quit from a toxic relationship and heal very quickly; [most of the time] you won't damage your body and mind with self destructive behavior. In my case I have Pluto square sun and Venus and I attract many "troubled" people (my parents, my former parents in law and the father of my children have Mars-Pluto conjunction or hard aspects). I don't know when it will stop (I also attract a few people with afflicted Moons), but I believe my narcissistic, oppressive and demanding mother along with the other people with Pluto-Mars hard aspects have gave me very valuable training. Now I believe I can overcome any difficulty that comes along my path.

Conque muy confianzuda, he?
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Unread 02-27-2019, 07:10 PM
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

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Conque muy confianzuda, he?
Es lo malo de tener planetas en los grados 5 y 10 de Leo El exceso de confianza conlleva muchos riesgos y me ha traído muchos problemas, pero no soy una persona confianzuda. Se supone que en un foro puedes hablar con alguien casi de igual a igual, el problema es (en mi caso) que al no manejar bien el idioma inglés lo que digo se presta a otras interpretaciones. Y en general, también está el problema de no saber en qué sentido se están empleando algunas frases, por medio escrito ¿cómo sabes si una persona está siendo sarcástica? En mi caso, si uso sarcasmo sencillamente guiño un ojo así n_n
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Unread 02-28-2019, 04:09 AM
BaoSanniang BaoSanniang is offline
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

I have mostly made peace with the fact that I'll never be able to receive the motherly love and support I deserve from her because she's too dysfunctional of a person to be able to give and receive love like someone who's much healthier and more functional.

What she fails to realize is that none of the things she's done to me and to others will actually be of benefit to her. Every time she resorts to her abusive and manipulative ways she is carving deeper into her own wounds and insecurities, all the time remaining oblivious (as it seems to me) to the fact that she's dealing more damage to herself than she has done to me. While I have made constant efforts to detach and put things into perspective, to live life as myself in search of my own happiness apart from her (and time has proven I am very much capable of doing so), she is only making life more and more difficult for herself because she never tries to become more aware and more in control. When her expectations are not met, it's always someone else's fault. She is 49 and really needs to start taking charge of her own life.

I've tried telling her on a few occasions how her abusive ways are affecting me and how she's digging an emotional grave for herself, but what little I could do and was willing to do to help her see a bit more light was met with resistance and denial.

At this point I can say it's about time to give up and just let fate run its course for her. I believe it's not beneficial or constructive to spend time around people who constantly and deliberately put you down instead of appreciating what you have inside of you. More often than not it reflects an unacknowledged weakness from within, a weakness they don't want to face and overcome because that will shatter their delusion of invincibility that's led them to think they can push people around and no one will ever dare to push back. Well, even if no one does push back in the open, karma will eventually alienate them from people. They're so insecure in themselves, that's why they need to resort to bullying.

I read on another website that Pluto, especially Mars-Pluto but in my opinion any Pluto aspect with a personal planet where the individual expresses Pluto at its lowest octave, enjoys seeking out weakness in others yet at the same time, despises the weakness they find. If you give in to the demands, they'll see you as spineless. If you don't, they'll keep pressuring you to. It's really a damned if you do, damned if you don't. They need to feel like they're in power and in control yet somehow feel dissatisfied once their victim actually submits. It sounds contradictory but reflecting on my experiences that describes my mom and the maternal side of my "family" quite well.

They thrive on continued conquest and exploitation, enjoying their fruits of "success" yet also becoming frustrated when they succeed. They're people who play by survival of the fittest in some of its rawest and most literal interpretations. In their hearts, compassion towards anyone or anything is to be laughed at, because their perception of the "real world" and "mankind" is supposed to be dark and grim and constantly at war. Of course, to someone who's more healthy and well-balanced, they'll know that it's not true.

For a very destructive Plutonic individual, I believe peace and salvation can only come through two avenues:
1. Being outfought, outwitted, outmaneuvered by another Plutonic person who gives them a taste of their own medicine.
2. Being shown they're not as powerful as they believe they are by karma. They must be left in the dark with no one coming to their aid because their reputation's been ruined over time.

It's best to have a combination of 1 and 2.

If a Plutonic person is too damaged, he / she will need at least one, preferably several life-changing experiences where recovery CANNOT be sought through the tools they have in their inventory. Their lies and tricks must not be able to save them. They'll have to stare at themselves straight in the eye, straight into the soul with no hope of escape. These experiences must hit them hard enough to the point where they have severe breakdowns due to a series of devastating blows to their very essence that they've built themselves with. Only when they have been reduced to ruins, their deepest and darkest motives burnt to ashes, might there be a remote possibility of them seeking forgiveness out of contrition for their wrongdoing.

In other words, you can't expect to use love and compassion to change the heart of a negatively Plutonic individual, they'll have to take it in the stomach and they have to take it hard before they might turn around and say: "You know, recently I've been thinking about everything in my life and in regards to you....... If you're willing, can we talk?" Even then, I feel there's no onus on their victims to hand out a mercy card to them, you simply don't just say "suck it up and give another chance to (insert name of abuser)" to someone who's continually suffered abuse without relent.

If you spill water on the floor, what are the chances of you picking up every single drop using your bare fingers? You have to bend, you have to kneel, that's tiring. Now that's a much simpler task than winning back the love and trust of someone you've constantly and purposefully tried to destroy, tried to sabotage, tried to wreck because of your inability to come to terms with your deep selfishness and utter foolishness. What does the Plutonian expect? The reality is that in order to make things right, there must be a rebirth. They must smash and tear themselves down and rebuild themselves into someone who's more positive, someone new (and hopefully better). That requires strength, constant reflection, focus, and discipline.

By acknowledging and accepting the need for both strength and vulnerability in both themselves and in others, they may come to realize that without weakness, we wouldn't need each other for companionship. By acknowledging that kindness and goodness will ultimately serve them much better, they might come to the understanding that they have a choice in directing their anger, their force into channels that are either constructive or destructive, and that these choices can be made starting not tomorrow, but TODAY. They need to live more well-balanced lives. There is a loaded rifle on the ground. You pick it up. Will you fire it out of fear, to conceal and silence your fear and weakness within, or will you fire it in courage, to fight and protect those in need?

I believe my experiences having gone through all of this abuse has indeed made me stronger and wiser. I might not have had some of the wisdom I now possess had I not gone through this psychological crucible. I've come to realize that raising kids is such a delicate art, even a dance, requiring careful attention from the artist, and not everyone would make a suitable parent. As a parent you must ask yourself what you're really teaching your child, what kind of person you want them to be, and whether your methods and wishes would actually bring peace to both you and them. It's extremely complicated and there really is no guidebook, though some "experts" may claim there is. There is always the human element and we aren't machines. However, I am utterly convinced that there are many people in the world who are simply unfit to take on the sacred duty of parenting because you're not just responsible for another Homos Sapiens Sapiens who happens to share around 50% of your genes, you are nurturing another body, heart, mind and soul that will go its own way (hopefully).

I've also learned that dysfunctional parents and relatives are often worse than friends, even strangers. Family isn't about blood, metaphorically speaking I disagree with the saying that "blood is thicker than water." Family must be about love and care, about acceptance, or else it's not family. We all make mistakes. I believe if you've mistakes as a parent, the kindest and most responsible thing to do is to ensure your kids have a better childhood and upbringing than you did, to not make them have to suffer because they're innocent. That is what I wish to be when I have my own kids.

On a concluding note, I believe that if your life force / life path cannot handle the intensity of such a strong and potentially destructive planetary energy like Pluto's, whether you come across it through people or through Plutonic themes in life (as a non-Plutonian), then it's best that some doors in life remain unopened. When led astray by twisted desire and greed, doors are opened with the hopes of fulfilling these desires. However, each successive door leads you further into the darkness, but your obsession and compulsion, and the issues that come with it, means it's not easy for you to stop. The deeper you wander, the further you'll be from your starting point, the more you'll be corrupted and eventually you'll lose sight of who you were before you descended into the abyss. Even if you are still aware of the old you, the guy or gal who was much simpler (and looking back, perhaps happier), returning to that place may well be a pipe dream because some things in life never leave you once you allow them to enter, and though many Plutonians may hate to admit it, most of it IS a result of their conscious choices.

With learning and awareness, I hope Plutonians can learn to minimize the negative impacts they have on you and on those close to you. This is what I wish all individuals who are letting Pluto control them with a grip of darkness will come to understand. And this shall be the challenge that I issue to all of the struggling Plutonians in the world. Will THEY, will YOU be up for it?

Last edited by BaoSanniang; 02-28-2019 at 04:29 AM.
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Unread 02-28-2019, 04:23 AM
Gemini888 Gemini888 is offline
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

I'm going to comment on something people may overlook in your mom's chart. If you try to find a final dispositor of the chart, Uranus and Venus will be the last things you come up with and they form a trine and are also in mutual reception to each other. Pluto's final dispositor is also Uranus/Venus.


So I don't really think it's her Pluto that is causing havoc on you, because I don't think Pluto is strong enough in her chart. I think it's a combination of 8H Chiron/Mars and Uranus/Venus. I've explained to you about Chiron and Mars. What I'm concerned right now is the Libra/Aqua energy. As I said before, some Aqua people can be really egocentric to the point of tyrannical. From what you describe, I suspect it could be the case here. Uranus trine Venus causes chaos in love and value. With both in air signs, your mom is overly detached and logical, and carry a big ego too, with Sun conj Venus right there. The scary thing about a tyrannical Aqua is that they are so sure they are the most "evolved" of humankind that they could care less whether what they are doing is harming anyone. They only care that they are doing something "revolutionary" and the whole world should listen to them. Aqua is a sign that doesn't care for people's opinion, so when its energy is used unhealthily, dictatorship is what you get.


Aqua's toxicity is different from Scorpio/Pluto toxicity in that the latter operates from its own suspicion and a strong need for connection, while the former operates from an extremely inflated ego and an unhealthy need to shine. So, do you ever feel like your mom is too detached for a human being? A kind of dictator who could care less for others' well-being?




(Well I'm actually defending Pluto here because I have 8H Pluto and I feel a lot of transformative power in it )
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Last edited by Gemini888; 02-28-2019 at 04:25 AM.
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Unread 02-28-2019, 04:35 AM
BaoSanniang BaoSanniang is offline
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Re: Is Pluto misunderstood?

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Originally Posted by Gemini888 View Post
I'm going to comment on something people may overlook in your mom's chart. If you try to find a final dispositor of the chart, Uranus and Venus will be the last things you come up with and they form a trine and are also in mutual reception to each other. Pluto's final dispositor is also Uranus/Venus.


So I don't really think it's her Pluto that is causing havoc on you, because I don't think Pluto is strong enough in her chart. I think it's a combination of 8H Chiron/Mars and Uranus/Venus. I've explained to you about Chiron and Mars. What I'm concerned right now is the Libra/Aqua energy. As I said before, some Aqua people can be really egocentric to the point of tyrannical. From what you describe, I suspect it could be the case here. Uranus trine Venus causes chaos in love and value. With both in air signs, your mom is overly detached and logical, and carry a big ego too, with Sun conj Venus right there. The scary thing about a tyrannical Aqua is that they are so sure they are the most "evolved" of humankind that they could care less whether what they are doing is harming anyone. They only care that they are doing something "revolutionary" and the whole world should listen to them. Aqua is a sign that doesn't care for people's opinion, so when its energy is used unhealthily, dictatorship is what you get.


Aqua's toxicity is different from Scorpio/Pluto toxicity in that the latter operates from its own suspicion and a strong need for connection, while the former operates from an extremely inflated ego and an unhealthy need to shine. So, do you ever feel like your mom is too detached for a human being? A kind of dictator who could care less for others' well-being?







(Well I'm actually defending Pluto here because I have 8H Pluto and I feel a lot of transformative power in it )


^^ Lol it's alright I don't mean to offend any of you here.

Well as for my mom, yes I do believe that deep down she has an inflated ego. She alternates between being extremely insecure and unsure of herself (though she'll never admit it) and feeling like she's queen of the whole galaxy. She's so erratic and inconsistent that I can never really seem to pin her down, and her inconsistency and lack of control over her energy (as you put it) is deeply unsettling and disturbing.

I admit that to some extent I also have my moments where I feel like I'm quite intellectually / morally above others (don't forget I have an Aquarius moon), but it usually happens when I am feeling very stressed and out-of-balance. There's always that bit of existential angst and skepticism in me, but so far it hasn't gotten to the point where I am unable to relate to anyone with compassion and understanding. In fact, people would describe me as being very kind and good-hearted, simple in character yet aware.
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