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Horary Questions on Relational Issues For horary questions about relationships.


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  #1  
Unread 09-20-2019, 09:54 AM
TaurusTime TaurusTime is offline
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Saturn in the First House.........!?

I have read the forums for a little while, although I am a beginner with Horary so I will do my best to interpret my own chart first. Please, please forgive me as I haven't really done this before and I am incredibly open to corrections and being informed of anything I have either interpreted completely wrong, or anything I have missed... Also willing to give more information if requested.

"Will I be in a long term relationship within the next 12 months"

I am the Ascendant (Jupiter) and I believe the Moon is not VOC.

Should I be writing this question off due to Saturn appearing in the 1st house??

I believe the 'future relationship' I'm asking about is represented by the Moon?

This is as far as I have managed to get - I am still learning about aspects and whether a planet is in fact moving towards or away from another.

I can't help but notice Venus, Sun, Mercury and Mars in this chart.
The Sun is awfully close to these planets. Should I be looking at these??
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  #2  
Unread 09-21-2019, 03:33 AM
TaurusTime TaurusTime is offline
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Re: Saturn in the First House.........!?

Could anyone kindly help me to make sense of this?
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  #3  
Unread 09-21-2019, 09:06 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is online now
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Re: Saturn in the First House.........!?

Ok, let's go through it step by step.
Saturn. At 13 degrees it is one degree from the 2nd house cusp, so really a 2nd house planet, not first. On the one hand, this doesn't invalidate the chart.
On the other, Saturn in this position and conjunct the south node (remember to enter this when you do a chart) would tell us that your self confidence has been suffering from this situation.
You as Jupiter are in the 12th, you are in reclusion, hiding away, approaching square to Neptune in the 4th, so dreaming ineffectively of a happy ending, but not being very practical about getting there.
Chiron on the 5th cusp of love affairs and children, you maybe had some unfortunate relationships. Also, since you don't mention your age or whether you are a woman, perhaps you are worrying about reaching that woman's crises where you begin to worry about your childbearing age, and become desperate for a relationship before that happens.
Moon is not VOC, it has just entered gemini, and approaches a trine with Venus of love, ruler of your 11th of wishes and future, and placed in that house, so things are moving towards this conclusion.
The future partner, mercury, is also in the 11th, in libra the sign of partnerships and marriage.
Moon will trine mercury after it leaves Venus, and it receives mercury by sign and house, so this is a strong aspect.
Very roughly the timing is about seven months, but please don't hold me to this, timing is not very easy to determine.
Also, mercury will sextile you, Jupiter, in about the same time.
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Unread 09-21-2019, 10:11 AM
TaurusTime TaurusTime is offline
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Re: Saturn in the First House.........!?

Elena - I cannot explain to you how very on point you are.
I thank you so, so much for looking at this for me.

As soon as I saw the placement of Saturn, I was about to disregard the chart but I appreciate your explanation on this.

My self confidence is at an all time low. With constant feelings of not feeling good enough for these guys that show such interest, only to disappear or treat me like there was never a connection. This is something I am working on but I know I have a long way to go with my self worth.
I am very much hiding away. Not in order for someone to come knocking on my door - but more with family issues and the self confidence mentioned above.

I am a 36 year old woman (Taurus/Libra rising)
Many sad and painful relationships over the years, so again you are absolutely right and I am very concerned I may never have children. Although, I could never just have children with just anyone, I did believe a family would always happen for me.

So trying to understand this a little better for the absolute amateur here (me)... Moon having just moved into Gemini does eventually indicate a yes to the situation. Could I ask, what effect will the Moon trine Mercury have?
And then for Mercury to sextile Jupiter in approx the same time - does this essentially mean that Mercury will be the one to instigate things?

I won't hold you to timing, I can only imagine it would be incredibly difficult to determine accurately. Apologies for such a long reply but your interpretation of the situation itself is 100% correct. I couldn't be sure about Mercury representing my future partner because of the 7th house placement between Gemini and Cancer. I do apologise for the VERY basic questions... But seeing as Jupiter (me) is currently sitting in the 12th house, eventually moving into the 1st house and changing signs, does that indicate a change of some sort with myself?
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  #5  
Unread 09-21-2019, 12:27 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Saturn in the First House.........!?

If Saturn were in the 1st house (it is not), we might say "It damages the question". If he is retrograde in the 1st, "He kills the question".

I once mailed an important letter. Saturn Rx in 1st...Several days later, the letter was returned undelivered...a Dead Letter. Rx Saturn in 1st "killed the question".
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  #6  
Unread 09-21-2019, 12:37 PM
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Re: Saturn in the First House.........!?

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
If Saturn were in the 1st house (it is not), we might say "It damages the question". If he is retrograde in the 1st, "He kills the question".

I once mailed an important letter. Saturn Rx in 1st...Several days later, the letter was returned undelivered...a Dead Letter. Rx Saturn in 1st "killed the question".

Thank you for the clarification Greybeard... I did believe Saturn in the 1st, if not representing a person, would incite delays or obstacles. I would never have picked it for the 2nd house which is why I'm the novice here...
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Unread 09-21-2019, 12:49 PM
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Re: Saturn in the First House.........!?

Are you in love with someone who is perhaps in relationship with another woman? This person might be a friend. This is due to that Venus/Mer conjunction. Sun is also conjunct Mars.

Not really seeing a relationship here, Mercury and Jup aspect is prohibited by Saturn.

Moon in a dual sign may suggest opportunities though and perhaps meeting people who become friends.

Are you online dating?
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  #8  
Unread 09-21-2019, 01:44 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is online now
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Re: Saturn in the First House.........!?

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Originally Posted by rafaella View Post
Are you in love with someone who is perhaps in relationship with another woman? This person might be a friend. This is due to that Venus/Mer conjunction. Sun is also conjunct Mars.

Not really seeing a relationship here, Mercury and Jup aspect is prohibited by Saturn.

Moon in a dual sign may suggest opportunities though and perhaps meeting people who become friends.

Are you online dating?
Moon in 6th could be a work environment.
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Unread 09-21-2019, 09:45 PM
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Re: Saturn in the First House.........!?

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Originally Posted by rafaella View Post
Are you in love with someone who is perhaps in relationship with another woman? This person might be a friend. This is due to that Venus/Mer conjunction. Sun is also conjunct Mars.

Not really seeing a relationship here, Mercury and Jup aspect is prohibited by Saturn.

Moon in a dual sign may suggest opportunities though and perhaps meeting people who become friends.

Are you online dating?
Thank you, Rafaella.
No, I haven't been online dating for some time because each time it has lead to meeting guys who all of a sudden say they aren't ready for a relationship OR are only after a physical thing. I'm sure there are other reputable sites out there but so far, it hasn't worked out for me.

As for being in love with someone who is already taken, no. I can definitely say I'm not. My ex was separated, he is now with her again but I can't say I am still in love with him. We have been over for almost 2 years.
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  #10  
Unread 09-21-2019, 10:37 PM
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tikana tikana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
If Saturn were in the 1st house (it is not), we might say "It damages the question". If he is retrograde in the 1st, "He kills the question".

I once mailed an important letter. Saturn Rx in 1st...Several days later, the letter was returned undelivered...a Dead Letter. Rx Saturn in 1st "killed the question".
U do realize that saturn is on the edge 2nd house and saturn retro in 1st does not dismiss the chart to begin with


Just look at jup and merc
Merc has nothing to offer to jup
And jup is chilling in 12
Merc wants saturn
Jup is isolated.. Imo no relationship

Last edited by tikana; 09-21-2019 at 10:42 PM.
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  #11  
Unread 09-22-2019, 01:16 AM
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Re: Saturn in the First House.........!?

I clearly said that Saturn is not 1st house here.

If Saturn is rx in 1st, the question will not proceed.

I inserted this info as supplemental. It does not apply to the chart in question. It is meant for those among us who do not already know everything; those who know everything can skip it.

This does not apply in natal charts. Breathe easy.

Last edited by greybeard; 09-22-2019 at 01:23 AM.
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  #12  
Unread 09-22-2019, 01:45 AM
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Re: Saturn in the First House.........!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tikana View Post

Just look at jup and merc
Merc has nothing to offer to jup
And jup is chilling in 12
Merc wants saturn
Jup is isolated.. Imo no relationship

Thank you, Tikana. Just not sure how interpretations can be so very different. I appreciate your reply...
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Unread 09-22-2019, 03:16 AM
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Re: Saturn in the First House.........!?

In horary astrology, there are what are called "Considerations before Judgment".

The purpose of these considerations is to determine whether or not a chart is Radical, or "Fit to be Read".

There are many possible impediments to reading a chart, and which of them an astrologer uses or rejects is a matter of personal judgment and experience.

I use 4 considerations before judging a chart. If any one of these 4 is present in a chart, it is "not fit to be read". Something is going on that renders the chart null.

Here are the 4 I use, commonly used by most astrologers:

1. If the first 3 degrees or the last 3 degrees of a sign are on the Ascendant, the chart is not radical. For sake of space I'll be brief...it is either too early or too late to render judgment. Where it is too early, you may address the question later, as the situation ripens. If too late, you missed the bus.

2. Moon "Via Combusta" [15 Libra - 15 Scorpio]. In horary astrology, Moon provides the dynamic energy, and in this region of the zodiac she is rendered impotent. There is an unsettled state of affairs that resists judgment, and it is possible that the querent takes a perverse pleasure in the confusion. The person may be completely dissatisfied with things as they are, but has no idea what he wants or would like to do. Sometimes this condition shows disintegrative forces at work behind the scenes of which the querent is unaware.

3. Moon void of course. The Moon makes no major aspect before leaving the sign she is in. There is not enough dynamic energy for the matter to mature. Derek Appleby suggests "Nothing will happen" as the answer to the question in cases where Moon is void.

4. Saturn is in 7th House. The 7th is the house of counselors, consultants, advisors; it represents the astrologer, and suggests that he is in some way incompetent as regards the question. He should recuse himself.
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  #14  
Unread 09-22-2019, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
I clearly said that Saturn is not 1st house here.

If Saturn is rx in 1st, the question will not proceed.

I inserted this info as supplemental. It does not apply to the chart in question. It is meant for those among us who do not already know everything; those who know everything can skip it.

This does not apply in natal charts. Breathe easy.
I breathing fine... Look at the bigger picture not just as if you are following a recipe, we are not cooking forum

Merc jup are not in aspect
Jup is being cutoff by saturn whilw being in 12th house- isolation.. Yeś its crosing 1st but its either happy or miserable on his own
Moon is not doing much with sun or erc either
Nothing.. U do not even need getting
"saturn retro in 1st involved"

As if of right now, nothing going on. Sun is not wven attracted to jup let alone merc
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  #15  
Unread 09-22-2019, 04:41 AM
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Re: Saturn in the First House.........!?

Well, I've been tinkering with astrology for a while, and do very little cooking. I do have a nice pot of chile simmering right now though.

I did not attempt a reading of the chart here, and don't intend to. I am not interested in the romantic escapades of the younger set.
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  #16  
Unread 09-22-2019, 05:01 AM
TaurusTime TaurusTime is offline
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Re: Saturn in the First House.........!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
In horary astrology, there are what are called "Considerations before Judgment".

The purpose of these considerations is to determine whether or not a chart is Radical, or "Fit to be Read".

There are many possible impediments to reading a chart, and which of them an astrologer uses or rejects is a matter of personal judgment and experience.

I use 4 considerations before judging a chart. If any one of these 4 is present in a chart, it is "not fit to be read". Something is going on that renders the chart null.

Here are the 4 I use, commonly used by most astrologers:

1. If the first 3 degrees or the last 3 degrees of a sign are on the Ascendant, the chart is not radical. For sake of space I'll be brief...it is either too early or too late to render judgment. Where it is too early, you may address the question later, as the situation ripens. If too late, you missed the bus.

2. Moon "Via Combusta" [15 Libra - 15 Scorpio]. In horary astrology, Moon provides the dynamic energy, and in this region of the zodiac she is rendered impotent. There is an unsettled state of affairs that resists judgment, and it is possible that the querent takes a perverse pleasure in the confusion. The person may be completely dissatisfied with things as they are, but has no idea what he wants or would like to do. Sometimes this condition shows disintegrative forces at work behind the scenes of which the querent is unaware.

3. Moon void of course. The Moon makes no major aspect before leaving the sign she is in. There is not enough dynamic energy for the matter to mature. Derek Appleby suggests "Nothing will happen" as the answer to the question in cases where Moon is void.

4. Saturn is in 7th House. The 7th is the house of counselors, consultants, advisors; it represents the astrologer, and suggests that he is in some way incompetent as regards the question. He should recuse himself.
Thank you Greybeard... I did know about a couple of those from what I have read in the forums but you've helped me understand a little more clearly - thank you.
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Unread 09-22-2019, 10:30 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Saturn in the First House.........!?

Yup. For beginners in horary art, I suggest following the rules. They protect the client against faulty advice, and the astrologer against looking like a fool.
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Unread 09-22-2019, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Yup. For beginners in horary art, I suggest following the rules. They protect the client against faulty advice, and the astrologer against looking like a fool.
So saturn in 1st or 7th house retro or not, while being in cap sign, on cap ascendant or descendant is a faulty chart? Good luck that theory...
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Unread 09-23-2019, 11:59 AM
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Re: Saturn in the First House.........!?

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Originally Posted by TaurusTime View Post
Thank you, Rafaella.
No, I haven't been online dating for some time because each time it has lead to meeting guys who all of a sudden say they aren't ready for a relationship OR are only after a physical thing. I'm sure there are other reputable sites out there but so far, it hasn't worked out for me.

As for being in love with someone who is already taken, no. I can definitely say I'm not. My ex was separated, he is now with her again but I can't say I am still in love with him. We have been over for almost 2 years.
ok in that case you may meet someone who is already involved with another, Moon/Mer aspect is prohibited by Venus. Mercury is in his 5th conjunct Venus... Mer/Jup aspect prohibited by Saturn. So I don't think there is a relationship any time soon. But maybe some romance or interest from men.
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Unread 09-23-2019, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by rafaella View Post
ok in that case you may meet someone who is already involved with another, Moon/Mer aspect is prohibited by Venus. Mercury is in his 5th conjunct Venus... Mer/Jup aspect prohibited by Saturn. So I don't think there is a relationship any time soon. But maybe some romance or interest from men.
Saturn collect lights merc and venus
Maybe we need to look at 7th house almuten
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