Signifactors about to conjunct w/Sun in between

SagiCap

SagiCap

Well-known member
love chart I saw has:

Woman - Jupter, Aries 17'
Man - Merc Rx, Aries 20'
Sun - in between them, 19'

In the 4th, right at 18'

Also - the question was something like "what did he mean by his statement?" not sure of her meaning, but Merc Rx also represents his communication, I would think, because it was his L3 ruler.

Any clue?
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
For me, since the Sun is a primary significator, the other significators moving to conjoin it show the definite connection of the other significators with the quesited significator or communications, the Sun; further, if the Sun in any horary is a primary significator and it connects with the other primary significator in the question, although technically combust, nonetheless it shows the closest connection possiblle between the primary significators-this is from the Primary Ankara horary tradition: in short, "combustion" between the primary significators (quesited and querent significators) is NOT a detriment or testimony against the question, but one of the strongest + testimonies FOR the matter of the question; only if one (or both) primary significators is combust AND the Sun is NOT one of the primary significators, does this bode ill (- testimony) toward the question.

Although I might be mistaken, I do not think the above consideration is recognized/accepted in standard horary practice...
 
tikana

tikana

Well-known member
SagiCap said:
love chart I saw has:

Woman - Jupter, Aries 17'
Man - Merc Rx, Aries 20'
Sun - in between them, 19'

In the 4th, right at 18'

Also - the question was something like "what did he mean by his statement?" not sure of her meaning, but Sun represents his communication, I would think, because it was his L3 ruler.

Any clue?
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Sagi

i asked that question twice on Skyscript. Sun is interfering by burning down both planets

Approaching combustion is worse than separating one
The Sun's fuel is bad atm because Sun is in strong sign

T
 
SagiCap

SagiCap

Well-known member
dr. farr said:
For me, since the Sun is a primary significator, the other significators moving to conjoin it show the definite connection of the other significators with the quesited significator or communications, the Sun; further, if the Sun in any horary is a primary significator and it connects with the other primary significator in the question, although technically combust, nonetheless it shows the closest connection possiblle between the primary significators-this is from the Primary Ankara horary tradition: in short, "combustion" between the primary significators (quesited and querent significators) is NOT a detriment or testimony against the question, but one of the strongest + testimonies FOR the matter of the question; only if one (or both) primary significators is combust AND the Sun is NOT one of the primary significators, does this bode ill (- testimony) toward the question.

Although I might be mistaken, I do not think the above consideration is recognized/accepted in standard horary practice...
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I'm sorry, I've made a mistake and corrected above. I saw that chart again and his "communication/L3" is actually Merc. Rx. too.

I'm going to ask to post the chart here. Gotta get permission first.
 
SagiCap

SagiCap

Well-known member
tikana said:
Sagi

i asked that question twice on Skyscript. Sun is interfering by burning down both planets

Approaching combustion is worse than separating one
The Sun's fuel is bad atm because Sun is in strong sign

T
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Oh wow. Ok. So they're both hidden/burned/detrimented to the highest degree? How? As in, they're afraid of each other? Or maybe they're both blinded/afraid of what Sun represents in the chart? Sun is in his 2nd h, intercepted and her 8 intercepted. Would you mind posting thy Skyscript link? Or let me know what you called it?
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
If the Sun is NOT a primary significator, then combustion with it by one or more of the primary significators is strong - testimony regarding the matter (which is, I believe, also a major teaching in standard horary-see for example, Tikana's answer, above)
 
SagiCap

SagiCap

Well-known member
dr. farr said:
If the Sun is NOT a primary significator, then combustion with it by one or more of the primary significators is strong - testimony regarding the matter (which is, I believe, also a major teaching in standard horary-see for example, Tikana's answer, above)
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That's VERY interesting.This chart is fascinating me. :) Thank you, DRF!

Tikana, I found your question. Reading now...

OK, a follow-up (sorry!) The sigs are heading towards each other. Sun is burning them both. What the heck does that mean? Does it mean that them getting together is bad for both of them? What always complicates things in my eyes is that they're also eventually also going to meet in Cazimi too. They're getting close. What the heck?

UPDATE: I'm allowed to post the chart but she doesn't want the city to show. Here it is:

The woman asked "what did he mean by his statement?" Something about a joke and then the conversation ended. She was confused by how things were left.

astro_2at_90_what_did_bh_mean_by_sp-1.gif


I think its hard to answer her question. I wouldn't ask such a specific thing out of horary. I'd ask the person "What the heck did you mean?" lol! But from what I see of the chart:

She's got Night Triplicity in Aries. He's just left term, 1 deg. But he's retro and they're headed for combustion. Sun represents her house of debt/worry/other people's money and it's intercepted. Sun represents for him, his money. Is she using his money for a venture perhaps and this backfires? This will happen on the IC and I think in angular house. It's bad, isn't it?
 
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07.Re

07.Re

Well-known member
I ran a chart this week which had a significator combust the sun, and even though True Node was in the relevant house of said combust significator, I had a "no" outcome.
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
If the Sun is not a primary significator, then both significators being combust would be a "bad outcome" indication; yes, they also move (astronomically) toward Cazimi: here is a difference in outlook between the freeze-frame answer and the astronomical movement answer, in horary practice: the dominant traditional/standard tendencies is to judge by the next astronomical movement of the planets involved-here one could say that since each significator will perfect conjunction with the Sun, shortly, and therefore both be Cazimi, the outcome would be very auspicious; iin the freeze frame outlook, however (which I follow except relative to timing estimates) the state AT THE TIME OF THE QUESTION-the picture of the heavens at that moment-GIVES THE ANSWER, rather than the answer being given by where, astronomically, the relevant planets will GO next. So, with the freeze frame outlook, the exact place of the significator planets IN COMBUSTION (rather than where they will go next) would be taken as the answer (both being burned up, detrimented, by the combustion state)
 
SagiCap

SagiCap

Well-known member
dr. farr said:
In the freeze frame outlook, however (which I follow except relative to timing estimates) the state AT THE TIME OF THE QUESTION-the picture of the heavens at that moment-GIVES THE ANSWER,
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I see what you mean but aren't our situations always developing? I tend to think the last aspect really gives the answer. That's the outcome and the freeze frame is the current state? I know end of matter house 4 can sometimes be used too (in traditional) but I don't always find that to be accurate for my charts. I find last aspect was the outcome.

....which brings me to a BIG pet peeve of mine. I've said it before. People should really post their outcomes more on the boards. Because really, how can we know what's accurate? It's like taking an exam as a student and never getting your final mark. How can you judge if you're learning? :mad:
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
SagiCap said:
I see what you mean but aren't our situations always developing? I tend to think the last aspect really gives the answer. That's the outcome and the freeze frame is the current state? I know end of matter house 4 can sometimes be used too (in traditional) but I don't always find that to be accurate for my charts. I find last aspect was the outcome.

Yes and that approach dominates standard/traditional horary practice, including that of the old timers (Ibn Ezra, Al-Biruni and others) as well: but for me, that's where the TOTALITY of testimonies comes in: the totality of testimonies as based on the freeze-frame state, show (me) the likely developments in the case, rather than looking at one element, even an important one such as the "last aspect" (please note that I am not being critical of this, simply stating my outlook and practice) This totality of testimonies and "freeze frame" approach I learned from Pasha in the presentation of HIS take on the Ankara (Ottoman Astrology) horary tradition: this totality of testimonies based on the freeze frame state of the heavens at the time of the question, is what simplified horary for me, and, at least in my subsequent horary experience over the years, has worked quite well relative to reliability and accuracy of delineations and predictions, particularly since I began judging all charts in the whole sign house format (beginning back around 1999)...
Not advocating anything here, just explaining what I do!
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SagiCap

SagiCap

Well-known member
tikana said:
another male
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and the plot thickens! Dun dun dunnnnnnnnn!

UPDATE: I just got a very interesting comment from the querent. She say that she'd connect with this man, go out, date, whatever, but she's getting an operation and that he'd have to go "on hold" exact words. lol. Perhaps Sun represents that being intercepted in 8th, but I've only had surgery showing up as 12h ruler before. She said it's a "secret" operation she doesn't want anyone to know about. I bring this up because I often think of "secret" as 12 or an intercepted ruler.
 
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dhundhun

dhundhun

Well-known member
SagiCap said:
The woman asked "what did he mean by his statement?" Something about a joke and then the conversation ended. She was confused by how things were left.
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What was statement?

This chart is "TEES" of heart. I am unable to translate "TEES", which is a Hindi word. This is also a condition, when heart misses few beats.

Astrological map communicates a feeling behind the question - "Alas! had you been come to my life earlier, ...".

Like communicating: "I would have lost myself, withoug caring for home, relationship and any worldly affairs".

But in today context, it is noting. Just forget it now.
 
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SagiCap

SagiCap

Well-known member
dhundhun said:
What was statement?

This chart is "TEES" of heart. I am unable to translate "TEES", which is a Hindi word. This is also a condition, when heart misses few beats.

Astrological map communicates a feeling behind the question - "Alas! had you been come to my life earlier, ...".

Like communicating: "I would have lost myself, withoug caring for home, relationship and any worldly affairs".

But in today context, it is noting. Just forget it now.
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Thank you. I'll try to ask her what the statement was exactly.

I don't understand what you mean. My apologies. Are you referring to the general feel of the chart is saying the man said something meaning he had regrets that they didn't connect earlier?
 
SagiCap

SagiCap

Well-known member
07.Re said:
I ran a chart this week which had a significator combust the sun, and even though True Node was in the relevant house of said combust significator, I had a "no" outcome.
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:(

I find many combust signifactors come to great fear and conjunctions can sometimes come to nothing. I'm not sure why this is. I've seen 2 communication horaries where the signifactors were conjunction and then nothing. Strange really.
 
gemini59

gemini59

Well-known member
To me the importance lies in the question. Thus the answer has to address the question. So she wanted to know what the meaning of his statement, his intent. His ruler is merc both for his 3rd. Merc is retrograde and implying a return to some former state. He is referring to something that happened in the past.

The fact that it is combust the sun implies the statement lost its 'umpf' or the joke lost its power making it meaningless and confusing. Thus she did not receive it. The fact that we are talking about a specific communication gives me the idea that if we turn the houses so that the eighth house, where sun rules, is the 12th from the 3rd we see it is representing an unconscious statement and self-undoing.
Thus he was not clear and it did not make it to its point.

To know more about the statement we look at mercury, its placement, its depositor, etc. In Aries it might refer to a former arguement but the bottom line is it clearly fell short.

If she wants to know where the relationship is going that is another question altogether but she was asking about the statement and its intent.
 
SagiCap

SagiCap

Well-known member
gemini59 said:
To me the importance lies in the question. Thus the answer has to address the question. So she wanted to know what the meaning of his statement, his intent. His ruler is merc both for his 3rd. Merc is retrograde and implying a return to some former state. He is referring to something that happened in the past.

The fact that it is combust the sun implies the statement lost its 'umpf' or the joke lost its power making it meaningless and confusing. Thus she did not receive it. The fact that we are talking about a specific communication gives me the idea that if we turn the houses so that the eighth house, where sun rules, is the 12th from the 3rd we see it is representing an unconscious statement and self-undoing.
Thus he was not clear and it did not make it to its point.

To know more about the statement we look at mercury, its placement, its depositor, etc. In Aries it might refer to a former arguement but the bottom line is it clearly fell short.

If she wants to know where the relationship is going that is another question altogether but she was asking about the statement and its intent.
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Gem! This really really makes sense. I did end up finding out the statement he made was "that's ok, I like it when people are quiet/speechless sometimes." after she said she was speechless. Kind of insulting but maybe not. I can see that it can be taken both ways. It can be innocent or can be telling the person to shut up! Then the chat was cut short and she's not sure if they should continue to continue or what have you. Gosh. This sounds like exactly the things that have been happening to me lately. Merc Rx for sure.

Your comments are really helpful. Thank you. I'll let her know!
 
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